a forum for the discussion of issues concerning the natural environment
May 29, 2013 By jennifer
May 29, 2013 at 9:23 am
Reminds me of Paul Keating stating that when he was a kid all his mother had to wash the clothes with was a copper and a stick.
My Mum graduated to a lightburn washing machine about 60 years ago and she was very pleased about it as well.
But this is a very good video and he’s a very bright man I’m sure. He sounds like an older version of Lomborg to me.
He thinks that AGW is a problem but understands that people everywhere want labour saving machines yesterday.
Of course once you get more time for education and more mod cons the birth rate falls and hopefully those kids have a better chance in life.
But certainly we should be adapting to climate or severe weather or SLR whatever and using some increased funding on more R&D.
May 29, 2013 at 9:35 am
The great thing about Rosling is that he has a heart. The problem is that he’s an intellectual. An intellectual is somebody who is enthusiastic about thinking…but not good at it.
Our future is being shaped by spotty-faced young men who have hygiene problems and can’t crack it with the girls. They are working away in their parents’ garages right now, hoping to prove points and get money and show up those jocks who do score the girls. These young men will not be nice or play fair…but they are working for all of us, and what they achieve as entrepreneurs will be far more important to the world than any philanthropy they decide to practise in later life, once they have made their piles.
The people who congratulate themselves on being able to afford and absorb TED talks are being taught to glorify intellectuals. They will go away and discuss what “we” can do to bring about a desirable future. Because intellectuals always base the future on the cliches, fetishes, fashions and discontents of the present they invariably get the future wrong.
Rosling is selling the stale, dangerous idea of green energy. He misses the big factor, the factor that brought the miracles of electrification and automation into being: human drive. Edison was a swindler and manipulator, Ford was a demented racist, Bill Gates is the most punchable human who ever lived…and they were all great, great men. Rosling is merely a good man.
May 29, 2013 at 9:42 am
“But certainly we should be adapting to climate or severe weather or SLR whatever and using some increased funding on more R&D.”
but gee how can you do that as we all know the entire climate science community is corrupt. The data no good, the stats no good, no models that work, scientists are shonks, all the basic physics is wrong etc ….. in fact they don’t know anything. But bloggers might know – except the ones that confess they can make many serious errors and get the stats totally wrong. Hmmm maybe that doesn’t work either.
John Sayers says
May 29, 2013 at 10:24 am
That’s an awful lot of green power he is conjuring up. Don’t know where he is going to get it.
This is so typical of greenie activists these days – whilst the Met Office has finally admitted that global warming is not statistically significant he rabbits on about it being real and we need green power to solve it.
Note the sheeple lap it all up.
May 29, 2013 at 10:30 am
Luke some scientists are like some farmers, some lawyers, some pollies, some journos etc. Most people are reasonable and decent but there will always be enough villians and con men to wreck the system if they get a chance.
For the zillionth time, I believe in some AGW but I don’t think there is now SS warming that will be much of a problem to 2100.
Thankfully at long last it looks like the Met office accepts this position. Also the range and higher levels ( high around 2C) have come down to 2100.
More R&D and adaptation will clearly give us the best outcome.
spangled drongo says
May 29, 2013 at 10:42 am
Whatever happens in the long term, the world will always need a far greater percentage of the provider class than the entitled class if it is to have any chance.
But the entitleds are so overwhelming western democracies that the providers, unless strongly encouraged through the free market [and I don’t mean “encouragement” that breeds more entitlement] that those very necessary democracies are in danger of collapse.
Sadly, the true provider ethic is going the way of the dinosaur and third world govts are often too corrupt to achieve much.
May 29, 2013 at 11:10 am
“Rosling is selling the stale, dangerous idea of green energy. He misses the big factor, the factor that brought the miracles of electrification and automation into being: human drive. Edison was a swindler and manipulator, Ford was a demented racist, Bill Gates is the most punchable human who ever lived…and they were all great, great men. Rosling is merely a good man.”
Very true Robert; such contradictions are the human condition; the greens want perfection and Utopians are the cruelest people of all; and no good deed goes unpunished.
May 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm
I must admit I’ve always thought greens and Utopians are not just cruel but very bloody dangerous.
They have an uncanny ability of choosing the wrong way to fix a percieved problem. Impractial fools the lot of them.
Just heard on ABC Country hour news that Vic coastline will have problems with SLR by 2080 and particulary Port Fairy. Some 400 homes will be in danger at P Fairy in the future—– so they say.
May 29, 2013 at 10:47 pm
May 29, 2013 at 11:34 pm
We have poachers on our wildlife right here, working around the clock in every piece of forest and scrub. Death rate is massive and incessant. Humans used to hunt koalas, millions in a year. Now these are the poachers, and they’ll take valuable stock as well, though in my part of the world it’s native species that cop it.
I see Damian Mander is good with a gun. I know where he can put that to good use.
May 30, 2013 at 7:25 am
We’re all sceptics now, unbelievable. Plenty of covering of backsides to come I think.
This is starting to look like the fall of the USSR. All it needed was a strong leader then a silly keystone cops kidnapping and Yeltsin showing more leadership and that was it.
These previously abusive fools will probably be on a race to the life boats before they sink.
May 30, 2013 at 7:35 am
Looks like Hansen and Gore could be wrong about their 6 metres of SLR by 2100. Geeezzzzzz do ya reckon, who would have thought?
Timmy and Robyn’s estimates are starting to look like bottom of the bird cage stuff I’d say.
May 30, 2013 at 7:50 am
Neville’s source – Wattscrap and Michaels – what a joke. Neville, the non scientist, lead around the ring by the nose clip. Get some class.
May 30, 2013 at 7:56 am
Perhaps Neville can explain ARIMA to us ? Or Bob Tisdale – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wattscrap for your daily serve of bunk (especially for the non discerning bottom feeders)
May 30, 2013 at 8:15 am
Luke, it must be terrible to have your world come crashing down due to a bit of fact-checking by some red necks.
Just think what a wonderful reign of terror you could have had with your balloon on a stick if they had kept quiet.
But it’s still not too late to get smart:
Ian Thomson says
May 30, 2013 at 8:27 am
What a wonderful anachronism “green” energy really is.
Digging up the landscape to find the rare earth minerals , iron ore, alumina, copper silver ,etc, to make windmills and mirrors is “green and sustainable” .( The smelting of the alumina alone requires baseload power unattainable by these means.)
Then we will cart the oil halfway round the world to make the plastics. This is done like the transporting of all the above ingredients and the finished product, using efficient turbines.
On the other hand using coal or plutonium to heat water, drive efficient turbines and generate electricity is not “green and sustainable .”
Neville is right R&D does need to be funded and subsidised , instead of throwing money at non-efficient,sometimes primitive generation schemes.
However other more advanced nations , such as India and China, while happy to accommodate us and sell us windmills and mirrors, know that they are not what THEY need.
( The reason they are buying all that coal. )
Hence they are racing to find better answers, with India at present in front.
Coming to a paddock near you, made in China ,or India, a power station powered by the free by product of the magnets in your Prius and your windmill – a thorium power station.
And out there at Ivanhoe, a town powered by a diesel generator until 30 years ago, they are about to start digging the stuff up.- to send to another country of course.
In the meantime, has it gone under the political radar ? There is a crisis building with family power bills. At the current rate of progress I believe 100,000 homes in NSW will have trouble paying. Last I heard we were over a third of the way there.
Robert, apparently maremmas have inter bred with the wild dogs and they stalk farmers.
However that “animalism ” is probably here to stay. Puddytat and Puppydog will always be more equal than any other species.Way more equal than a man with a gun.
The little toddler in Brisbane yesterday will already be getting chastised on social media for entering the dog’s “territory”.
May 30, 2013 at 8:45 am
“It is a question of character.” opines Bolt – hahahahahahaa
Minister for Truth says
May 30, 2013 at 9:45 am
The boys are still frothing over academic niceties when the compendium of damage caused by their lobbying based upon currupt and shonky science peddled in concert with their Greeny mates and NGO’s is now revealing the immense damage it is causing all over the world
What a great list of examples Donna has compiled.
No doubt the resident “agent provocateur” will react and attack the messenger using his well honed skills in critical analysis.
Meanwhile Australias own competiveness has taken a dive
Not surprising considering the price of electricity….I wander how that came about?
Give up guys and sit in the sun and enjoy what left of what was the best country in the world.
May 30, 2013 at 10:30 am
And let’s not forget the ruinously high costs of refrigerant gases. The people who think that’s a good idea are often the same people who preach we should export refrigerated meat instead of live animals.
We have got to stop listening to educated dills, to people who can theorise, calculate, extrapolate and collate but who cannot THINK. End the anti-scientific barbarity of Publish-or-Perish. And no more two-bob intellectuals, especially of the “public” sort.
May 30, 2013 at 10:54 am
“It is a question of character.”
Yeah, being able to admit that your bedwetting was a jerk reaction.
Ian, the greenest renewable energy is nuclear. It’s what the smart people are doing. Even Whinnying Jimmy says so.
MfT, when you get someone who really tries to put things to rights, like Campbell N, the lefties are not only given full rein by our ABC to belittle and vilify but our ABC feel duty bound to make up the numbers so the Tarago-load opposition can be increased to a bus-load.
May 30, 2013 at 11:23 am
It is always “rigid labour rules ” and “cost of labour” , blamed for Australia not making anything isn’t it ?
Never stupid politicians making dumb trade deals or absolutely crazy uncompetitive rules and taxes.
Nothing like the Ford Falcon competing against more models of cars than in any other country on this level playing planet.
Or the local dairy farmer competing against $1.50 flavoured milk from BELGIUM in our local shop.
The local mill has its power bill increase by $1.5m with the carbon tax.
Luckily they don’t have to refrigerate product or they would find “rigid labour” a problem too.
Oh well lets be like Maersk and fly in some $5 an hour Filipinos , then we can afford to buy a Merc made in a first world country, by people on first world wages.
It’s either that or close the whole operation and pay the CEO a half billion dollar bonus.
When will it get through to economists and journalists that to have a prosperous business you need prosperous clients? Perhaps some of them should be sent, on full commission only, to sell vacuum cleaners in Sudanese villages or to the poor buggers on Smokey Mountain.
Send the Red Team and the Blue Team form Canberra with them to show them how.
May 30, 2013 at 12:26 pm
“We have got to stop listening to educated dills, to people who can theorise, calculate, extrapolate and collate but who cannot THINK.”
Robert, you mean the F/Ws who do policies like this:
el gordo says
May 30, 2013 at 12:53 pm
‘Get some class.’
Methinks many climate scientists are on the ground, but not sure what they’re thinking.
May 30, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Ah, SD, the renewable American woodchips to Drax. One can rightly say that there is now not a thought left in the desolate noodles of our Green Betters. Not even the ghost of a flicker of a thought.
May 30, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Minister, the venture capitalist Vinod Khosla was here in Australia with Dr David Mills, the Sydney Uni professor who was driven to the US to pursue his groundbreaking solar research because he couldn’t get funding in Australia.
Here’s his interview on the 7.30 report back in 2007 where he claims the world for renewable power!
The company Ausra has since folded and a new company has arisen from the ashes and it’s about to add solar boosters to Kogan Creek power station in Queensland. (Australia’s most efficient coal power station BTW)
May 30, 2013 at 2:48 pm
Could be a good debate coming up in the USA. But these debates should have been held years ago before they wasted the taxpayer’s money.
May 30, 2013 at 3:30 pm
Chop down trees in America , use energy making them into pellets, cart them across the World. Change at least some micro climates in the US and save the Planet.
Lock up the self renewing redgum forests in SE Oz , use loads of energy manufacturing concrete railway sleepers from non-renewables. Ship in timber and furniture made from clear felled jungle in SE Asia.. Katabatic wind comes down from the Himalayas , blows dust at Oz instead of jungle monsoon. Save the Planet.
Gee it needs a lot of energy to save it, doesn’t it ? Still the end justifies the means comrades.
Only one thing about the US trees doesn’t add up. George Soros doesn’t appear to own them yet, maybe he’s flat out bulldozing jungle in S America near his sugar cane to plant some of those special “renewable” trees
May 30, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Whinnying Jimmy might be right about nuclear but not about SLs.
“The eventual sea level rise due to expected global warming under BAU GHG scenarios is several tens of meters, as discussed at the beginning of this section. From the present discussion it seems that there is sufficient readily available ice to cause multi-meter sea level rise this century, if dynamic discharge of ice increases exponentially. Thus current observations of ice sheet mass loss are of special interest.”
It’s interesting how a clever bloke can be so right about one thing and so wrong about another.
Is that science or ideology?
They can blame this for a lot of their mistakes but the ideology of doom also plays a big part:
I hope gav reads it.
May 30, 2013 at 3:38 pm
Heck I just clicked . I’ve been reading a lot lately about the fear of a move to GM trees in forestry.
George owns 900,000 shares in Monsanto . He is going to own ALL the trees.
May 30, 2013 at 3:43 pm
Sorry, I should have said the above is from here:
May 30, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Ian, while we’re on the outside looking in, these blokes [the wunch of bankers] are creaming us.
Talk about politicians and the public being played for suckers!
When will even the conservatives wake up?
May 30, 2013 at 4:03 pm
Sea Ice doesn’t look like going away.
May 30, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Be interesting to see come September John. But anyway it’s only 0.01% whereas Antarctica is 70% and growing.
Meanwhile, more green policy at everyone’s expense:
May 30, 2013 at 5:42 pm
Here is Australia’s future . Are you above the $100,000 line ?
May 30, 2013 at 6:11 pm
You really would have to be a zealot not to recognise that the catastrophists are very likely to have CAGW wrong, whilst the so called denialists ( those who agree some warming comes from additional co2, but dispute the likelihood of positive feedback effects creating a real problem) are increasingly being proved to be more than likely correct.
most of us here have been called any number of names and had our intelligence and characters attacked for simply stating what we have seen as so obvious. I have certainly copped much abuse at my school from staff, but increasingly they are coming up to apologise and many are indeed waking up (many still are not!).
But do we get an apology on this blog? no we get more vitriol, more attempts at “proof” via the micro, while the obvious macro is ignored.
Clearly many are waking up and rapidly trying to back pedal. Even the british are waking up it would seem.
with china slowing, and an economy that labor/green have done their best to damage, we are in for some very tough years. Many feel times have been tough already. But considering our terms of trade and a lack of recession for over 20 years, it is a real concern that we are carrying so much government debt. One of our key comparative advantages has always been cheap energy, now we have lost that advantage. How do we spend our way out of real trouble when we have spent the boom times already and have nothing for a “rainy day”….worse not only have we spent what we have, we have spent 200 billion we do not have.
May 30, 2013 at 7:07 pm
Ian Thomson – The Daily Currant is a satirical blog site like The Onion in the US.
please don’t believe what you read – if she had posted such a video to Youtube don’t you think they would have given you the link?
Do you really think Gina would say something like that and post it on YouTube??!!
May 30, 2013 at 8:48 pm
These taxpayer-funded green loans are going belly up all over the western world. Abbott needs to look these bureaucrats straight in the eye and tell them they will be held responsible if they don’t pull their heads in.
May 30, 2013 at 9:01 pm
‘whilst the so called denialists ( those who agree some warming comes from additional co2, but dispute the likelihood of positive feedback effects creating a real problem) are increasingly being proved to be more than likely correct.’
The denialati don’t accept the theory that warming comes from increasing CO2, its the sceptics who believe carbon dioxide may cause some warming but its negligible.
Following on from John Sayers sea ice graph, this NH summer might prove a dud for the warmista.
‘Freezing ‘summer’ temperatures in France mean that ski slopes are set to open for the first time ever in June.
‘At a time when most people are normally planning a trip to the beach, the resort of Porte Puymorens in the Pyrenees will be operating this weekend.’
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2333075/The-unending-ski-season-French-resort-open-April-closing-date-coldest-weather-25-years.html#ixzz2UlrqRK00
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May 31, 2013 at 8:37 am
The uncertainty monster grows another head:
And it’s clear to see which way we are heading:
May 31, 2013 at 9:15 am
I was sucked in JS probably partly because of some of her previous form, but I guess someone who reckons Simpsons is disgusting and morally degrading, wouldn’t go near youtube. lol
May 31, 2013 at 11:32 am
Luke is still in his runny nose phase, I see.
Luke: since Greenland ain’t doing what it needs for 0.5 meters, much less 5 or 6, and since Antarctica is following along with Greenland to avoid doing the same, would it not be more productive, and make you look less stooopid to address the problem instead of running on, and on, and on?
May 31, 2013 at 1:14 pm
Quote: Comment from: Ian Thomson May 30th, 2013 at 5:42 pm
“Here is Australia’s future . Are you above the $100,000 line ?
(Gina Rinehart calls for sterilisation for the poor)”
This is the link you were looking for.
And it isn’t satire:
“Tens of millions of pounds of UK aid money have been spent on a programme that has forcibly sterilised Indian women and men.
Yet a working paper published by the UK’s Department for International Development in 2010 cited the need to fight climate change as one of the key reasons for pressing ahead with such programmes.
The document argued that reducing population numbers would cut greenhouse gases …”
The enviro-nazis pogrom has began.
Quote -David Archibald, carbon (sic) tax rally, July 1, Sydney:
“Make their lives hell just as they wish a diminished life on you.”
June 1, 2013 at 12:40 am
The relationship between ‘enlightened’ western countries, including the USA and Australia, and eugenics is long and shabby. In the USA a group started specifically to promote eugenics efforts on poor minorities, Planned Parenthood, is a major player in American politics. PP is a white elephant that cannot be challenged with facts or defended honestly but remains fully entrenched in the public money trough.
GK Chesterton wrote about eugenics extensively and accurately:
June 1, 2013 at 1:22 pm
ScreenHunter_557 May. 28 08.49
ScreenHunter_558 May. 28 08.49
June 1, 2013 at 4:22 pm
June 1, 2013 at 6:08 pm
Sorry John, I was trying to bring up this:
Willis put up this great post about a week ago and I missed it. It seems to have a powerful message re the wrongness of model projections and that climate sensitivity to a doubling is likely to be as low as half a degree, or the paradigm of CS may be completely wrong.
June 2, 2013 at 9:23 am
Looks like Gavin Schmidt doesn’t have much confidence in some modeling.
June 2, 2013 at 11:50 am
This is all obsolete. We should all use the cheapest energy without giving out subsides. True cost of energy emerges and thus when the cheapest fuel is all gone, we will all jump on the next and the next. Eventually green energy will emerge the ultimate power, but not by false costs. By the time we expend our natural energy supplies, we will be so advanced in technology that solar will be cheap as chips. Solar energy will be able to be available just by painting on the walls and windows. We will be printing it on home 3 D printers to suit our environment. NO windmills. NO acid batteries. The energy capacitors will be blood like containers with a capacity to load fast and release slow. This is all now. Only at infancy. Imagine in another 20 years.
By the way: The Earth is going through an ice age!
June 2, 2013 at 3:45 pm
The washing machine we need to think carefully about:
June 2, 2013 at 4:03 pm
sd, Too sensible and no impending doom, no tax money in common sense. Some of those dangerous denialists have been saying that stuff on here too.
handjive, 1000 farmers a month committing suicide over GM debt in India as well. Isn’t the 1st World having a wonderful strike rate there.
June 2, 2013 at 6:44 pm
We know ENSO is neutral and likely to stay that way for some time, while BoM is expecting follow up rains because of a looming negative IOD.
‘The Indian Ocean Dipole (IOD) is currently neutral. Model outlooks of the IOD are becoming more consistent, with four of the five models surveyed now favouring the development of a negative IOD during the southern winter-spring period. The fifth model is also suggesting values on the negative side of neutral. A negative IOD during winter-spring increases the chances of above-normal rainfall over southern Australia.’
June 2, 2013 at 7:56 pm
Yes Ian, we can’t possibly have rational adaptation. That smacks of giving a pass to those responsible for putting us in this “mess” in the first place, and we lose the moral authority to make them stop.
Our moral betters agree it is better by far to endeavour to mitigate the risk at the source even though it will likely never be achieved and we crucify ourselves in the attempt.
But we will at least have our minds right.
That’s what’s known as the principle of sustainability.
Johnathan Wilkes says
June 2, 2013 at 9:31 pm
‘1000 farmers a month committing suicide over GM debt in India’
Don’t know if makes any difference in the long run and if it was the right thing to do, but at least Hungary took a decisive action about GM crops.
The government ordered the wide scale burning of GM modified maize.
Can look up the link but I don’t think is needed
I don’t have a definite view about the matter, I think in certain circumstances GM could be helpful, but the monopoly situation worries me.
Anything concerning the provision of foodstuff does actually, my parents had a few things to tell about what happened during WW2.
Re. CC and “IOD’ ‘ENSO ‘ benso and all the other climate influencing phenomena,
I’ve been thinking, [it happens] these influences were around in one way or other for as long as the Earth existed.
So why are we talking about them in connection with climate change?
Isn’t it all caused CO2?
And how does CO2 influence all those natural phenomena?
June 2, 2013 at 11:05 pm
Unfortunately the GM suicide story is a myth perpetuated by activists to whom the story appeals.
June 3, 2013 at 9:34 am
The green enviro-nazis are all over this like a fat kid on an iced donut:
The dirt on clothes: why washing less is more sustainable
[ https://theconversation.com/the-dirt-on-clothes-why-washing-less-is-more-sustainable-11531 ]
Those women who spend days walking to water supplies & transporting water to hand wash clothes will welcome the less work, to “be seen” to be “more sustainable.”
But first, one must “believe” in armageddon global warming.
June 3, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Good presentation by Christy on May 30th. Good clear graphs etc.
June 3, 2013 at 6:01 pm
The latest essential poll shows we have a lot of work to do … to convince the populace that CO2 does not cause global warming. They have been severely brainwashed into thinking renewables are somehow important.
June 3, 2013 at 6:48 pm
You can’t blame them el g when we have people of Authority speaking BS like this on national television.
so for $240 billion we can power the whole of Australia with renewables!! – WE DON’T HAVE THAT MANY RIVERS TO DAM! as that’s the only way we could do it.
As Tony pointed out on Joanne’s site that SA pays the highest electricity prices because it has the most wind turbines.
DLP Senator for Victoria, John Madigan, and Independent Senator for South Australia, Nick Xenophon, are onto it.
June 3, 2013 at 9:09 pm
Or we can do it this way John, everybody knows how well those Spaniards are travelling:
I think it only costs about ten times as much and runs for about 10 hours without sunshine.
Our CSIRO think it’s marvellous.
That Ian Lowe’s a guru ain’t he?
June 3, 2013 at 9:56 pm
ha ha SD – puleeeze, as Luke would say. Zero emissions believe we can power Australia with those Spanish thingys. We just need to build a thousand of them which would mean using ALL our heavy transport to lug all the parts out to the desert for the next 20 years, bumper to bumper B Doubles from all the ports to the outback, yipee. 😉
Ian Lowe is a fraud, as are all gurus. 🙂
To get in touch with Jennifer call 0418873222 or international call +61418873222.