According to a report in The Australian, Labor plan to impose a ban on electric hot water systems from 2012, in favour of solar systems, in order to cut those ubiquitous greenhouse gas emissions. Read the full story here.
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Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
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Tim Lambert has been up this one for the rent !
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/08/maybe_the_australian_could_emp.php
Comments spinning off the meter. Part of the ongoing war on AGW by the Australian newspaper?
My dear US colleague James wanted to see denialist media. James – check the series here .. .. here’s the last one .. .. in the ongoing series – you can find the others
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2007/08/the_australians_war_on_science_8.php
My only experience of solar water heating is in Greece, where you’re ok until the sun goes down – then you have to wait until next day for hot water. As a yearly visitor to Spain’s Costa Del Sol – I’m surprised that solar water heating doesn’t seem to be very common there. I’m off to Spain again next week. It’s important to compare like with like – I don’t think Tim factored in no sun = no hot water heating.
It would make sense to me to use a combination of solar/electric – then you always have hot water when you need it. But hey, being greenwashed is often about moving backwards rather than forwards.
Is anyone saying you can’t have solar-electric? Paul – Many homes in Australia have had solar hot water for years – just on long term cost savings long before it became environmentally fashionable. It’s not that new ! Lotsa radiation down under.
Agreed – it’s just that the article mentioned a ‘ban’ on electric water heating.
Paul – “Agreed – it’s just that the article mentioned a ‘ban’ on electric water heating.”
Yes the article did probably say this however I am sure that the ban is on electric only hot water systems. Electric boosted solar is fine as in good areas it can save 60% or 70% of the electricity that is wasted to heat water.
It makes perfect sense for a mostly sunny Australia to save a huge amount of energy this way.
From a well known manufacturer
http://www.solahart.com.au/files/FAQBrochure.pdf
“All solar water heaters include gas or electric boosters to ensure you never run out of hot water even during the colder, darker days of winter
and on those rainy days we have from time to time. By selecting the right Solahart model for your area and your family’s hot water usage
patterns, you can ensure you minimise the need to use the booster.”
“How much will a Solahart water heater save me?
This will vary depending on which part of Australia you live in, your current hot water system and hot
water usage patterns, and the model of Solahart you install and of course your fuel tariff.
For example, by installing a Solahart 302Kf Free Heat, our most effi cient model, you can cut your
water heating energy consumption by up to 90%* in the hotter parts (Zone 2) of the country,
up to 75%* in the temperate parts (Zones 1 & 3) and up to 60%* in the cooler parts (zone 4).
{Map in web link above}
The policy would seek to ban electric resistance hot water, but you can still use gas, solar or heat pump (or wood).
However, if you live in a unit, or in an area without reticulated gas, then the policy doesn’t apply.
The Australian article was thus a total beat up. And that’s before you consider that the article focussed on the up front costs of solar hot water, and ignored the operational savings.
The policy (quite obviously) does not exclude solar hot water system with an electric boost, nor does it exclude electric heat pump hot water systems.
However, before you go out and buy an electric water system and stick a sheet of black plastic on the roof and call it a solar hot water system with electric boost, rest assured that the policy would include references to existing standards and existing testing frameworks to define what exactly a solar hot water system is.
PS.
Virtually every solar water heater sold in Australia today would have either a gas boost or an electric boost. And the major govt programs that support solar hot water (such as the Federal Mandatory Renewable Energy Target) take the form of boosting into account when calculating emissions savings, credits.
Paul’s comment about greenwashing and solar only hot water is thus uninformed, and is the kind of bitter, muttered anti-green comment that is so endemic in the comments box of this blog.
To be quite honest in the Environmental debate, my first house had solar electric Hot water and I have missed it down the years. Long before the enviro debates really hotted up, back then it was global winter, just after Nuclear Winter doom scenario.
If I was building a house I would put one in for sure. But have never done so on a retrofit basis.
Luke – “”How much will a Solahart water heater save me? ”
Even better for colder climates are the evacuated tube types. These were vastly improved by research at Sydney Uni and of course now we have to buy this research from China. The advantages are that the circular tubes accept radiant heat from all directions and as there is a vacuum between the glass outer tube and the thermal transport fluid any heat captured is not lost.
http://www.endless-solar.com/
These can also be retrofitted to existing hot water systems so if you have a recent system you do not have to replace it.
This is what I will be fitting to my present gas hot water system soon.
I considered a solar hot water system a few years ago (purely for efficiency and economic reasons) and was told by the manufacturer that they could not guarantee its performance above 600 meters elevation (in Vic.).
We hear so many complaints about non-coal energy sources not being able to replace base load, but getting rid of electric hot water removes a significant demand for base load.
“Paul’s comment about greenwashing and solar only hot water is thus uninformed, and is the kind of bitter, muttered anti-green comment that is so endemic in the comments box of this blog.”
It’s well known and obvious that greens like to puch intermittent energy sources to replace 24/7 sources. My experience in Greece of solar water heating is that there is no back-up.
Have had solar hot water for years and when it breaks down ,it gets the boot.Spend most of the time boosting it.Pile of rubish.
Paul Biggs – “It’s well known and obvious that greens like to puch intermittent energy sources to replace 24/7 sources.”
Yes nuclear is pretty intermittant. When it gets hot they have to shut them down.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/5061439.html
” ATHENS, ALA. — The Tennessee Valley Authority shut down one of three units at the Browns Ferry nuclear plant Thursday because water drawn from a river to cool the reactor was too hot, a spokesman said.
The nation’s largest public utility shut down Unit 2 about 5:42 p.m. CDT because water drawn from the Tennessee River was exceeding a 90-degree average over 24 hours, amid a blistering heat wave across the Southeast.
“We don’t believe we’ve ever shut down a nuclear unit because of river temperature,” said John Moulton, spokesman for the Knoxville, Tenn.-based utility.
He said TVA would compensate for the loss of power by buying power elsewhere. The utility announced earlier Thursday that it was imposing a fuel surcharge on customers because of lower hydroelectric power production caused by drought conditions.””
Pity they didn’t have solar which would have been fine.
Except in France where they generate at least 75% of electricity via nuclear.
Paul Biggs – “Except in France where they generate at least 75% of electricity via nuclear.”
Backed up with pumped hydro from Sweden for peaking power. And they live to regret it:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0728-06.htm
“The French government announced July 24 that nuclear power plants situated along rivers will be allowed to drain hot water into rivers at higher temperature. The measure is intended “to guarantee the provision of electricity for the country,” according to an official note.
France has 58 nuclear power plants, which produce almost 80 percent of electricity generated in the country. Of these, 37 are situated near rivers, and use them as outlet for water from their cooling systems.
The drought accompanying the hot summer has reduced the volume of water in the rivers, and might force some power plants to shut down.
Under normal circumstances, environment rules limit the maximum temperature for waste water in order to protect river flora and fauna.
“For many years now, French authorities have defended nuclear power arguing that it is clean energy, good for the environment, and that it will help combat global warming, for it does not emit greenhouse gases,” Stephane Lhomme, coordinator of the environmental network Sortir du Nucleaire (Phase Out Nuclear Power) told IPS.
“Now, with global warming leading to extreme hot summers, we are witnessing that it is the other way round,” Lhomme said. “Global warming is showing the limits of nuclear power plants, and nuclear power is destroying our environment.”
During the hot summer of 2003, French authorities had allowed nuclear power plants to drain excessively hot water into rivers, leading to considerable damage to flora and fauna, Lhomme said. ”
What a shame they do not have solar as well that you do not have to shut down when it gets hot.
Most household water heating systems heat a tank of water for storage until needed. Maintaining an acceptable temperature is a problem for solar systems after the sun goes down. So electric backup is needed.
I am interested in a new, efficeint electric technology which only heated water as needed, without tank storage. Apparently someone worked out a way of heating water for domestic use by using microwaves. Anyone know how this development is coming along, and when (if) it will ever be available? One of the benefits apparently was that it also got around the problem of having to replace heating tanks as they corroded.
I feel that it would be a mistake to impose by fiat, specific heatiing systems on the community. This would prevent new, simpler and more efficient solutions from being adopted as they develop. Better to let the market push households towards efficiency, by realistic power pricing.