Whale Meat as a Western Taboo
Posted by jennifer, September 12th, 2008 - under Opinion.
Tags: Organic, Whales
It’s free-range, organic and tastes like an exceptionally tender eye fillet. I am referring to the whale meat, lightly roasted in black pepper, I enjoyed Tuesday night in Tokyo.
The Japanese delegates at the conference I am attending here in Tokyo thought it unusual I was keen to try whale.
“Its taboo for Westerners,” was one remark.
Of course whale is not on the menu here at the New Otani Hotel, but it is available downtown. It was a New Zealand friend, David, a computer programmer who has lived in Tokyo five years now, who took me to the restaurant that served whale.
Like me he has no respect for the high profile anti-whaling positions of our respective countries or the idea that some food should be taboo.
The word taboo was a discovery and addition to the English language from Captain James Cook. Visiting the Pacific island of Tonga in 1777, the Captain noted in his journal that ‘taboo’ signifies a thing is forbidden.
The emergence of whale meat as taboo is a hallmark of the arbitary and religious nature of modern environmentalism.
Little Whale Steaks, Tokyo, September 9, 2008
Eating dogs also seems to be a taboo here.
Little did I know of the Dog Religion.
Jennifer has really lost the plot.
It is interesting that Greenpeace have not launched a campaign against the eating of dog in places like the Phillipines.
Oh dear, Micheal. That is just absolutely so wrong.
We’re only talking Whale Religion here.
Unless, you know, we can look forward to Jennifer and David hosting the odd puppy fry-up to raise funds for the local soccer club.
Eat what you want. It’s all the latest Jenny brain-fart go.
Oh, and BTW David (New Zealanders. I continue to be amazed at their consistent capacity to be, well, bogan dipshits basically). Thanks for the non response re your imagined commercial elephant meat trade.
In short, Jenbot has no argument.
Jennifer,
Many people have put lots of efforts here in the whaling debate , Libby , Travis , David , George , Peter C , including also myself .
As a former Greenpeace activist I have pointed out at least dozens of times here on the blog that Greenpeace is not an animal rights or animal welfare organisation. As a matter of fact you make David a misservice , since it seems like you don’t read his blog.
I just pointed out to David and IceClass that Greenpeace is NOT interested in these kind of issues.
As a matter of fact they are only interested in whaling because it draws a big public and it’s one of their oldest campaigns .
Greenpeacer’s do eat meat as well…
As a matter of fact ( again) , it’s quite scary that you don’t know your enemy or have put some effort to understand the differences , between the philosophy between animal right organisations vs animal welfare organisations.
It is quite well described in ” Encyclopedia of Marine Mammals”.
No Jennifer , you have NOT put lots of work on the whaling issue…..
Jennifer,
I was unaware of the domestic dog being an endangered species.
Are you angling for some PR work for the Japanese whaling industry?
I hope so, becuase the other explanation – that you actually believe what you wrote – is scary.
Looks like the new blog is going where the old one went – down the toilet.
Shorter Jen: I just want to be Andrew Bolt. Did I mention that I’m a corporate shill?
Michael, I was not aware that minke whales (the species the Japanese hunt) were an endangered species. Have you evidence to the contrary?
Hi Ann, Can you explain the difference between animal rights as opposed to animal welfare organisations and how this relates to whaling? I’ve nearly finished reading ‘the last whale’ a new book by Chris Pash about the successful campaign to close down whaling at Albany. It has a foreword by Greenpeace “The last whale is a readable, accurate account of the successful campaign to end whaling in Australia, and contains important lessons to end whaling globally.” And in the book Bob Hunter, and the other campaigners, basically say that the campaign had nothing to do with whether whaling was sustainable or not … it had everything to do with the concept that whales are species.
Jennifer,
Just do a Google please , and reread my statement that Greenpeace is involved in whaling because it’s ONE OF THEIR OLDEST CAMPAIGNS, this means that campaigners like Bob Hunter , Paul Watson and Rex Weyler were involved, modern GPI whales campaigners like Frode Pleym ( from a village in northern Norway ) are NOT interested in the animal rights or welfare issue , they are interested in whaling because of the sustainability issue …..
Jennifer,
Ever heard of CITES or the IWC?
The IWC banned the hunting of all whales, including minkes, because of the declining numbers of even these, the smallest of the baleen whales.
The Minke is in Appendix I of CITES (July 1, 2008) -
“Appendix I includes species threatened with extinction”.
Given past experience, I’m sure that this evidence to the contrary will have no effect on your opinions.
CK,
What I stated was that “elephant meat is available in parts of Africa”.
You (somehow) interpreted this as if I was suggesting that “there is there is some sort of thriving commercial market in elephant meat in Africa, and that they aren’t a protected species”.
“Thanks for the non response re your imagined commercial elephant meat trade”, you state two hours later… I wasn’t aware that I was obliged to respond to you within such a tight time frame.
You are an interesting addition to the crowd here.
Shorter Jen: I just want to be Andrew Bolt. Did I mention that I’m a corporate shill?
Shorter CK: Did i mention I’m cognitively impaired?
If Jennifer is close to corporations, good for Jennifer and I hope she does a great job representing their interests.
I hope she is also representing the interests of large corporations as large corporations (those involved in contestable markets) are a wonder of man’s creative mind. They are large because they provide excellent products and services to consumers. In short they are god like as they improve our lives.
He’s a cheer to large corporations and all those who represent them.
Rather than putting them down, you pathetic clown, you ought to be praying for their well being every night before you go to bed.
idiot.
Travis, something having similarities with religion does not mean it IS religion.
It’s interesting that there’s two posters here who are having trouble with basic English.
Michael,
CITES and IWC are forums where politicians make the decisions. The decisions in theory are supposed to be consistent with scientific evidence. In practice at both CITES and the IWC this hasn’t always been the case historically.
With regards to the minke, there was no evidence that the minke whale stock was overdepleted, and the moratorium was established in spite of scientific advice that harvests of minkes at the time were probably sustainable, and indeed the IWC scientific committee later agreed abundance estimates for 1990 putting the species at a level of some number of hundreds thousands and maybe more than a million – this was also a negatively biased estimate. Harvests were of the magnitude of 6,000 – 8,000 immediately prior to the moratorium, a quota shared between the Soviet Union and the Japanese.
Jennifer,
It was not my intention to be rude , apologies, but for almost two years I have posted comments on whaling and guest posts and the question that you posed have always popped up.
I’m just tired to be ranting again the issue …. I had btw a VERY LONG POST about this on my blog recently , but it was deleted due to reconstuction of my blog.
I had bought a very expensive copy of the magazine ” Philosphy Now” that covered the issue that you posed and I made a very long post about on my blog ( unfortunately I didn’t save it) .
But VERY shortly : IFAW , is an animal welfare organisation ( they eat meat) , Sea Shepherd is an animal rights organisation( they are vegans) , Greenpeace call themselves an environmental or conservation organisation ( they eat meat) .
Summary : The AR people call the conservation and welfare people for ” the numbers people” and they don’t care about populations , they care about individuals etc. NUFF NOW….
Apologies for my spelling errors , should really reread my posts before submitting them;)
Hi Ann, So I guess you are saying that all animals are special. And hey, I agree.
Jennifer,
Got those puppies on the grill yet?
Really, if you want to be another Andrew Bolt, you’re seriously going to have to come up with something better than this.
>It’s interesting that there’s two posters here who are having trouble with basic English.
LOL!!! Are you going along the tiresome path that I am someone else ( I presume CK)? I’m glad conspiracy theories interest you.
I did not say it WAS religion. You seem to have your own difficulties with English.
>So I guess you are saying that all animals are special. And hey, I agree.
I’ve often wondered how Jen’s mind works. It has a very good filtering process it seems.
Jennifer can you explain how whaling is humane?
“And in the book Bob Hunter, and the other campaigners, basically say that the campaign had nothing to do with whether whaling was sustainable or not … it had everything to do with the concept that whales are species.”
The campaign to close Cheynes Beach was because killing sperm whales was not necessary; it was cruel; research was coming out from captive and wild populations that cetaceans were highly social and “intelligent” animals, and the concern for the future of whale stocks. I can assure you that Project Jonah were concerned about sustainability.
david,
Jennifer wanted evidence- she’s got it.
The reason that all whaling was banned was that despite the imposition of quotas by IWC, numbers continued to decline.
“Did you ever ask a cow how she felt about it?’
No, it’s never come up. These days, we mostly talk about the design of her new methane collector unit.
“Or did you ever stand and watch pigs squealing and pissing themselves out of fear before they are killed?”
My pigs would never ‘piss themselves’. Occasionally, after they’ve been on the matching ‘his’ and ‘hers’ marble thrones at the end of the trough, they forget to wipe. But this never happens with Doublesoft paper.
“Shorter Jen: I just want to be Andrew Bolt. Did I mention that I’m a corporate shill?”
Isn’t this “shorter so-and-so” leftist bad habit just idiocy? This is where the dumb left-winger doesn’t relate at all to what the other person has said and instead just makes it all up.
Its more annoying mindlessness on the lefts part. Its like when they have no comeback so they write “yawn”. They have no shame. The brainlessness would be embarrassing to a normal human being not afflicted by the left-wing mental handicap.
But in this case CK is an anonymous graffiti scrawler, so one supposes that its no skin off his marxist nose.
“Oh. So are dogs and cats on the menu as well? How about people?”
Is this Steve Munn talking? A bit of a Jekyl and Hyde character this Steve Munn.
I’ve never seen anyone quite so nasty on this blog but that it was Steve Munn.
Yawn.
For those interested :
At home I have an original Greenpeace poster from their first anti whaling voyage in the North Pacific against the Russians in 1975.
See image on my blog : ( whaling history) :
http://annimal.bloggsida.se/diverse/early-anti-whaling-poster
Libby,
Agreed. Research suggesting whales are very intelligent, and the importance of this to Jean-Paul Fortom Gouin drove the campaign. Indeed he financed it.
But then you make the comment that Project Johan were concerned about sustainability. My understanding is that Project Johan were not central to this campaign? Also, I understand from recent posts from Ann that she is desperate we/I make a distinction between the whales are special issue (i.e. very intelligent) and the sustainability issue.
PS My reference to the campaign, is to the campaign to close whaling at Cheyne Bay, Albany, in SW Western Australia.
Michael,
On what basis are you claiming numbers are declining?
I understand the IWC is likely to sooner or later have to accept data it has been sitting on for some time now indicating a best estimate for Minke in the Southern Hemispere at 500,000 individuals?
Then appying their formula, the Japanese quota could increase significantly to say 10,000 minke?
Ann Novek said…”Just do a Google please , and reread my statement that Greenpeace is involved in whaling because it’s ONE OF THEIR OLDEST CAMPAIGNS, this means that campaigners like Bob Hunter , Paul Watson…”
I lived in Vancouver, Canada when the Greenpeace boats set out to intercept the whalers. I supported them fully in those days. Now they are too busy spreading lies about legitimate scientists who question global warming theory (see exxonsecrets.org ). A co-founder, Patrick Moore, quit Greenpeace because he saw them and the environmental movement as being based on emotion and sensationalism these days rather than on science and logic.
Paul Williams said…”Gordon, you sound like the vanguard of the vegan proletariat”!
Several points for you:
1) I’m a loner…I want nothing to do with movements, vegetarian or otherwise.
2)Go lay your bollox about digestive tracts being designed for meat-eating on someone who is more naive. You ARE the orifice you suggested I shove my condescending whatever in.
Jennifer,
I’m not.
I said “was banned”, as it occured in the mid-80’s.
What a stange post this was! Jennifer claims that some unidentified Japanese person at a conference thinks that whale meat is “Taboo for westerners”, and that is all she requires to construct a environmentalism=religion argument.
Travis said…”Yawn. Some people can actually manage to feel for humans as well as non-humans. Amazing stuff”!
The thing is, Travis, we don’t feel ‘for’ anyone or anything, although I get what you mean. Compassion, love and empathy produce feelings in us after the fact, but they are not those feelings. Rather, they are a state of being.
Most of the time, we humans live in a selfish state of inward focus, which stems from our memory. In memory, we have the structure of our identity into which we were conditioned by our parents and other authorities. However, memory must be of the past, even if the memory is only a few seconds old. So, in our normal state we are always in the past.
Love, compassion and empathy have no time state…they are always now…and you can’t approach them from the past, through our normal state of being. You literally have to let go of all your bs to allow them to ‘be’.
In that state of ‘here and now’, the ego and selfishness are completely gone. You don’t have to feel for anyone or anything, it’s just there. More importantly, there’s nothing to compare; there’s no difference between you and an animal. Ego and image are horrible burdens, and even though I’m still affected by them, I can now laugh at them for the nonsense they are.
Swearing and flaming don’t bother me. Hope I didn’t let you down by taking a shot at Paul, but I’m sure he and I would have a laugh over a beer.
Richard said …”Thank you for your excellent series of posts”.
I appreciate your comments Richard but I realize I am just spitting into the wind. I don’t take myself all that seriously.
I went to a talk given by Ram Dass a while back here in Vancouver. If you don’t know who he is, he is the former Richard Alpert, a former Harvard psychology professor at the time Timothy Leary was on his acid trip. He dropped out (or was forced out) and became Ram Dass.
He took questions at the end and one guy had an urgent request. He was put out that he tried really hard to make a difference in life and his efforts were not returning dividends. Ram Dass laughed, and said, literally, “hey, man, don’t worry about it. You can try has hard as you want to make a difference and you wont change anything”. Ram Dass then told him the thing was to just try.
Many people don’t get that at all. They think there has to be a reason for everything. People are trying to explain to me why we should eat meat. They are perplexed by the notion of just leaving animals alone.
Maybe this is best summed up by a former girlfriend. She wanted to distance herself from me, which I was completely open to, but I asked her to talk to me first. She didn’t want to. I suggested that she’d lost her ability to try in life. She shouted at me, “it’s too hard to try”.
That’s what it all seems to come down to my friend, it’s too hard to try. When it comes down to something as simple as live and let live, it’s too hard to get in touch with those internal processes that would enable it.
Michael,
“The reason that all whaling was banned was that despite the imposition of quotas by IWC, numbers continued to decline.”
You should provide a basis for that statement.
The reality is that hunts for pretty much all baleen species had already been banned by the late 1970’s.
The moratorium, when it came into effect, essentially resulted in an additional ban of two for other species, such as the Antarctic minke, which was never seriously overdepleted in the first place.
From what you are saying, it sounds as if you believe that banning the commercial hunting of Antarctic minke whales resulted in a turn around that saw other species suddenly start to recover in numbers as well.
Travis, sorry I skipped reading your comment. Just to let you know.
Travis, I changed my mind and did read your comment. I did not say you and CK are the same person, nor did I think that. But you both seemed to have trouble with basic English, or otherwise are looking to have imaginary arguments. Perhaps you guys should get together and make up imaginary arguments amongst yourselves?
“My understanding is that Project Johan were not central to this campaign?”
Project Jonah were very central to the campaign, particularly here in Sydney (something I wrote in my very first correspondence with you). Friends of the Earth played a part too.
“PS My reference to the campaign, is to the campaign to close whaling at Cheyne Bay, Albany, in SW Western Australia.”
Yes, that’s what I was referring to.
“They are perplexed by the notion of just leaving animals alone.”
Wonderfully said.
What an unbelievable wank from Gordon Robertson. I don’t know what herbs you put in your cooking, fella, but the Basil and Oregano that I put in mine has never made me imagine that my steak was in fear of my first bite.
Your whole bogus philosophy is based on a failure to understand death. It is really simple. One minute you are here and the next second you are not here. End of story.
So when cattle are killed for meat it is a case of one second they are walking down a corridor and the next second they are not. It might, technically, take four minutes for the brain to cease functioning from lack of oxygen but the cows consciousness of itself has already ended. And as it’s consciousness has already ended then it is, from that point onwards, a lump of protein and calcium.
With whales, we have the curious, and widespread cognitive carbuncle that is capable of understanding that a chook without a head is quite dead despite the fact that it’s body might still be running about. Yet, a whale that has had a grenade explode in its head is assumed to still be alive and even conscious of its situation as it’s body twitches for exactly the same reasons that the headless chook does.
In both cases, as with just about all forms of human killing of animals, the actual end of life takes place after an almost instantaneous, and unheralded loss of consciousness.
To continue to demonise this kind of departure as being somehow inhumane whilst accepting a pack of Dingo’s right to spend 12 hoursing down a herd of cattle in relay until one of them drops from exhaustion and loss of blood from all the nips and tears displays an overwhelming capacity for self loathing.
And it also betrays a highly developed capacity for ignoring the suffering of the rest of the herd who’s life consists of a sequence of extended, exhausting trauma until they become the one to make the eventual sacrifice.
Humans offer animals a long, protected and well fed life, with a guarantee that their progeny survive, in exchange for a quick, painless death. And it trumps every other deal on the table.
Ian Mott said…”…take four minutes for the brain to cease functioning from lack of oxygen but the cows consciousness of itself has already ended…”
First of all Ian, I predicted this kind of reaction from a zoophagan. Secondly, I wasn’t talking about the cow’s consciousness, I was talking about yours. You sound like one of the more primitive types, however, and I’d be wasting my breath on you. I’ll give it a go anyway.
One thing we have that a cow doesn’t is an ability to be in touch with our own intelligence. Even though that intelligence is available to us we seldom use it. That deficit is also called a lack of awareness.
All I have said in any of posts is that we humans have the ability to get along without killing animals for food. Why that should get your nose out of joint is beyond me, but I have obviously hit an emotional chord in you. Instead of coming after me, why don’t you look into yourself and see where the emotion is coming from?
Based on your argument, you’d have no problem with a stronger race coming to Earth and herding us. It would be OK as long as they treated us well before they slaughtered us and ate us. Oh, oh…wait a minute…I’m getting a preview of what you’ll say next. That’s different, isn’t it? We’re humans and cows are animals. Humans are so special. Talk about wankers…we’re a race of prima donnas to boot.
In the universe, no one gives a hoot about your arguments, it’s only on Earth that we have that peculiar distinction between a human and an animal. We’re both animals, for God’s sake. We were blessed with a higher intelligence so it’s OK for us to slaughter certain animals en masse, simply because we’re smart and they are not.
You have no compassion, man, and that is a serious defect. You wont see it as such because you have such a strong image of yourself that you can’t get in touch with a form of intelligence with which you were born. Unfortunately, that compassion is required in relationships with your fellow man. If you don’t have it for animals, exactly what kind of relationship do you have with humans?
I know what it is to be a man. I work on construction sites, I swear like all get out and I can be as insensitive as any other twit. The difference with me is that I know my image is a big act. Anyone needing to talk to me about it, if I am offending them, can do so freely, as long as they are not being patronizing or authoritative. I think if anyone tried talking to you about your image problem, you’d shut down and want to fight the other guy.
You have completely missed the subtlety of what I have been saying. We are superior beings, why do we have to behave like savages? At one time it may have been necessary, but we have the technology and food supply to leave animals alone. The only thing getting in the way is the pleasure we derive at stuffing our fat faces.
Even if you can’t deal with that aspect of what I’m saying, how do you condone the suffering imposed on animals in slaughter houses? You make it sound simple…bang, your dead. I posted a link to what actually goes on. Pigs get tossed into scalding machines while they are still alive. Pigs traveling in freezing weather get frozen to the sides of metal trucks and have to be pried off…tearing flesh off with it. The cruelty is mind-boggling, but that’s what you avoid in your perfect dream world.
Very good comment Gordon. I remember the first time I visited a factory farm for pigs. I did this during a course for horses in the Swedish Veterinary Institute. Actually , during this time I had no interest in animal welfare issues , and the factory farm was pointed out as the best managed pig farm in Sweden.
The stench of manure was overwhelming, even for me that is used to horse pooh. The poor animals lived in very cramped conditions and the lighs were turned off , because the animals were so distressed and did a ” cannibal” work on each other, biting each others pig” tails” .
I will never forget these unlucky critters!
Nice little wank, Gordon, but hardly credible. You may not be aware that your alien analogy already has a human dimension. Humans all over the world forego a life in the “wild” in exchange for a comfortable suburban house, full stomachs for their family, good health care and education and security from predation. In exchange for this they spend almost half their conscious life working for someone else when they would rather be doing something else. And at the end of it all they die sooner than they might have due to stress etc.
So when we farm animals we are doing nothing much more than what we do to ourselves. The only minimal difference is that our residual protein and minerals are not utilised after our death.
So spare us all your second rate folk psychology and your narcissistic overestimation of your “awareness”. It is only one rung up from astrology.
And your suggestion that we don’t “need” to eat meat is just plain ignorant. Most of the meat consumed by humans is derived from the conversion of rangeland shrubs and grasses. And humans are unable to obtain the nutrients they need from this vast resource.
The argument run by vegans, that all meat animals are fed on grains is plain bull$hit. They are only fed grain for a few months prior to sale. So the much vaunted substitution of feed grain for human consumption is illusory.
And to replace the nutrients supplied by animals with cropped grains etc would require a major expansion of the cropped area into zones that are totally unsuitable.
Are you really so stupid as to think that there is some vast area of land out there that no-one has bothered to cultivate yet?
Give us a break.
Ian Mott, you failed to mention that, in the real world, most of the grain that is fed to animals is grain that was grown for humans but has been downgraded. This downgrade can be due to a number of factors like excess moisture at harvest time or insufficient moisture at other times that reduces the protein content of the harvest.
But these vegans insist on deluding themselves that a large portion of the worlds farmers are deliberately setting out to grow a crop (stock feed) that fetches a lower price.
Sometimes some specific stock feed crops are grown as part of a rotation to maintain soil condition but, again, the notion that this can be sustainably taken out of the mix in favour of a purely human consumption crop rotation is just plain ignorance.
But veganism was always entirely between the ears of the vegan, with zero link to reality.
Jennifer, you’re just wrong.
I see mention of my book, The Last Whale.
The issues today are the same as in 1977 when anti-whaling activisits took direct action campaign against Australia’s last whaling station; cruelty and the record of the whaling industry in decimating species of whales one after the other. Yes, there was, and still is, a widespread notion that whales are ’special’.
But Australia’s last whalers tell me: “The whales die hard.” I believe them. They are the experts and I went out with them hunting sperm whales twice, in 1977 and 1978.
We could debate whether Minke whales are a population from which a sustainable harvest can be taken (and I notice this whale population has been revised downwards by the IWC) but the real point is cruelty. these whales suffer and long and painful death.
And there is nothing their deaths provide for mankind that cannot be found elsewhere. We will not stop stop hunger but rather their meat ends up in restaurants to to benefit of the better off.
I went to a whale restaurant in Japan in 1980. There isn’t even anything special about the meat in terms of taste of consistency.
We don’t need their meat.
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