THERE has still been no official confirmation, but it seems likely that the airbus that ditched into the Hudson River last week was brought down by one, two or several Canadian geese.
According to the New York Times: “The cause is still under investigation,” said Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. But he said preliminary reports indicated that Flight 1549 was several miles out from La Guardia Airport, at 3,000 to 4,000 feet, when the pilot radioed that there had been a bird strike.”
Lots of praise has been heaped on the pilot for not losing a single passenger.
There has been some discussion in the mainstream media about the problem of geese getting in the way of aircraft and how populations of many bird species, particularly Canadian geese, have increased dramatically in recent years – but no congratulations for this achievement.
Just 100 years ago Canadian geese populations were in decline and one subspecies now common in the vicinity of New York, the Giant Canadian Goose (B. canadensis maxima), was thought extinct until as recently as 1962.
According to an MSNBC news interview with Richard A. Dolbeer, a retired ornithologist with the Department of Agriculture at the Wildlife Services in Sandusky, Ohio, “The key thing is that we’ve seen a remarkable increase in populations of many or most large birds — birds such as great blue heron, osprey, bald eagle, snow goose, Canada goose… These populations are increasing because we’ve done a really good job of wildlife conservation in North America for many species, because we’ve cleaned up the environment, gotten rid of DDT, enacted the Clean Water Act. All good things, but because of these, we’ve had incredible surges of many species that are hazardous to aviation.”
I suspect the increase in the goose population has more to do with controls on hunting, including season length and bag limits, rather than banning DDT and the Clean Water Act.
But whatever the cause(s) of the increase, there is reason for optimism. Indeed noone is disputing that there are now more birds in North America than there were 40 years ago with millions of bird from more than 350 species now passing through the New York region each year. The population of Canada geese in New York City and on Long Island alone is estimated to exceed 25,000.
The fact that a subspecies can be brought back from the brink of extinction to the extent that it is now so numerous it has become a nuisance is something to celebrate. Indeed it is yet another example of an environmental indicator showing improvement in the developed world.
Airports in New York, and other parts of North America, will no-doubt learn to better manage the increasing risk of bird strikes.
I wonder how many other large cities in the world have expanding, rather than contracting, bird populations.
Picture of the Canadian goose from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Goose
Jeremy C says
Rather than expanding bird populations could the extra strikes be due to an expanding aircraft population?
jack mosevich says
In the Chicago area the Canada Geese population has grown enormously. One factor is the large number of small manmade lakes in new housing developments, as well as the reasons mentioned above. We have also a huge deer population.
The “warmers” are of course blaming the crash on global warming because that causes an increase in Geese population and longer periods where they stay here.
JeremyC said:, “Rather than expanding bird populations could the extra strikes be due to an expanding aircraft population?” Quick answer is an emphatic NO!
Local Geese is a growing problems in most US east coast locations. Goose populations are increasing since the population plummeted several decades ago. Local goose populations are also increasing with their favorite hangouts large expanses of grassy areas (Airports and golf courses) qualify.
Jeremy C says
Its funny because the expanding population of airplanes also like hanging out next to large grassy areas. Don’t you think when you have two expanding populations hanging out close to each other there is bound to be more collisions.
Ron de Haan says
All that is needed is a more vigorous risk management and the introduction of obligatory standards and procedures for all airports.
Israel, a world hot spot of migrating birds and Schiphol Airport in the Netherlands have developed a broad array of tools which can be deployed depending on the type of birds sighted and migrating patterns in the vicinity of the airport and the flight paths. These tools include the ROBIN bird radar, small remote controlled aircraft that keep the birds away from the airstrips, trained falcons, measures in landscaping etc. etc.
These measures allow growing bird populations without culling measures maintaining a high level of flight safety.
The problem lies in the absence of standards, rules and procedures.
This is partially caused because of the absence of standard solutions and procedures that fits every single airport.
The followng standards and procedures however could be implemented obligatory on any airport.
1. Risk Assessment, a study that makes an inventory of the local wild life and bird migrating patterns in the vicinity of the airport.
2. removal of threes, bushes and food sources
3. integration of ROBIN radar data as part of the Air Traffic Control and pilot briefing and notifications.
(As pilots are warned for ash clouds from volcanic eruptions they should be warned for migrating birds)
4. integration of knowledge about bird migration patterns and bird behavior as a part of the basic training of pilot’s and air traffic controllers.
5. The introduction a “bird man or specialist wild life management”, responsible for keeping the airport free of wildlife and birds (if necessary).
That ole rule of unanticipated consequences is at play here. The more we mess with nature the more nature is likely to mess right back at us.
Ron, it is unlikely that these were migratory Geese, but local Geese that actually lived on or near the Airport. Risk assessment and more standards might help, but the issue with the nature comment above is how do we stop it from modifying local risk conditions?
Jeremy C, i realize you must have your tongue in cheek, but the difference in growth rates is significant. And, it is not on the human side. What I do find amusing is the ignorance of the biologist/naturalist community. For a long time the avowed humanitarian solution was air cannons that fired every few seconds simulation gun fire. After a hours of that, even the wild life was accustomed and no longer even noticed. Now, take that to the next logical step and think how the newly hatched young reacted to that noise they had heard from before they hatched.
And, with that last comment I have gone full circle to that ole rule of unanticipated consequences
spangled drongo says
“The fact that a subspecies can be brought back from the brink of extinction to the extent that it is now so numerous it has become a nuisance is something to celebrate. Indeed it is yet another example of an environmental indicator showing improvement in the developed world.”
There are growing indicators that endangered wildlife can survive successfully alongside humans provided we are smart and disciplined enough but when both are in “plague proportions” and become a danger to each other then some hard decisions need to be made.
Ideally, some sort of bio-control is needed to induce them back to the remote nat parks etc.
I’ve got a few red bellied black snakes I can spare but I don’t know how they would take to the cold weather.
Helen Mahar says
Large geese (and Australian Bustards – wild turkeys) need two things. Nice open grasslands for feeding, and clear, unobstructed areas so they can get a run-up for take off. Modern cities, with their parks, airports, etc, supply and maintain these admirably. So add unintended creation of suitable habitat to the list of factors increasing urban numbers of Canadian geese. However, I thought these geese were migratory. Why aren’t they going south for winter?
Near Pt Lincoln, in South Australia, is a problem population of Cape Barren Geese. Their preferred habitat is the nearby islands. But with these islands becoming infested with South African Boxthorns, both their grasslands and take off areas are disappearing. So they have been shifting camp – to the nearby mainlland farmlands and airport. You would think amelioration of this problem would be easy – restore the original habitat. But not so. Some of the islands are privately owned, and the owners can ill afford the significant costs of eradicating box thorns, which readily grow again. Last I heard, the Government was under no obligation to assist landowners in meeting their statutory obligations to eradicate declared noxious weeds.
Management of each species needs to be species – and location – specific.
Ian Mott says
The greens refuse to concede that an ecological value, in this case Geese, are capable of going into ecological profit, ie in surplus to their natural footprint. It is their common MO to capture these ecological profits and convert them to a new minimum standard, in the form of an environmental duty of care.
Their next step will be to document the increasing number of Geese kills and use it as “evidence” of a threat to the Geese population. It is exactly the same as they are doing right now with the SEQ Koala population. This is located in the part of the State that was first settled and where vast tracts of forest were left uncleared because of very serious trace element deficiencies in the soil that was capable of killing off cattle, let alone Koalas.
Other areas had their soil deficiencies corrected through farming and some of this land has been subject to major regrowth events that included a higher proportion of Koala friendly tree species. So a location where Koalas were very rarely found is now classified as a major Koala habitat and the greatly expanded Koala population is now subject to claims of being under critical threat because of the high incidence of road kill and dog attack. Most victims are adolescents searching for new territories due to overcrowding at home.
Both of these phenomena, as with airline birdstikes, are in fact strong evidence of population abundance. Start to worry when the numbers of roadkill, dog attack and birdstrike go into serious decline.
“I suspect the increase in the goose population has more to do with controls on hunting, including season length and bag limits, rather than banning DDT and the Clean Water Act.”
Any basis for this suspicion Jennifer? Or just the usual?
Gordon Robertson says
Richard A. Dolbeer “These populations are increasing because we’ve done a really good job of wildlife conservation in North America for many species, because we’ve cleaned up the environment, gotten rid of DDT, enacted the Clean Water Act”.
You forgot one thing, Richard. We have also increased levels of CO2, enabling the food sources and habitats of those birds to increase and improve. What’s that, Richard? Mumble, mumble, mumble.
and you’ve made it illegal to shoot them:
All Canada geese, including resident flocks, are protected by Federal and State laws and regulations. In New York, management responsibility for Canada geese is shared by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS), U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), and the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC). It is illegal to hunt, kill, sell, purchase, or possess migratory birds or their parts (feathers, nests, eggs, etc.) except as permitted by regulations adopted by USFWS and DEC.
spangled drongo says
” Resident populations have grown steadily because of milder and more favorable conditions for nesting and survival, while migratory populations have experienced some dramatic ups and downs caused by harsh weather on the breeding grounds and greater exposure to harvest by hunters.”
Looks like they are moving south and thriving also because of global cooling.
Exactly….. When I look out in my back yard and see lots of birds, both native and introduced, I think that things can’t be too bad for them… A northern Kookaburra was having a go at it’s reflection in the window on the veranda, only just this morning…. making a ruckus too. It was quite offended with itself….
There is quite a variety of birds that visit the garden, native pidgeons, doves, currawongs, sunbirds, Ibis, curlews, wagtails, honeyeaters, kingfishers, drongos, peewees, sparrows, mynahs, parrots… and more, and all in or just outside my small backyard suburban garden five minutes from the CBD.
Environmentalists forget people are natural to the environment too…. and that all things adapt….. and anyway, what’s an “environment”?…. I’m only interested in one that humans inhabit with comfort and plenty. If animals can make a living in that environment too… they’re welcome.
Chris Schoneveld says
What about NewScientist’s tendentious article (April 2007) on the booming population of snow geese? Snow geese only breed in large numbers if the winter snow pack in Alaska melts early enough. For once we see a specious thriving thanks to global warming and again the New Scientist finds a way to put a negative twist to the story.
It goes like this. Head line: “snowy invaders point to Arctic thaw”. The negative connotation “invaders” refers to the yearly winter visit of ” thousands of these hungry lawnmowers” (as they call them) to a dairy farm in the State of Washington eating $10,000 worth of grass. The farmer is quoted as saying: “they’re like locusts” and a biologist refers to climate change as ” the culprit” and the New Scientist concludes: it is another “stark warning of trouble brewing elsewhere: global warming”. You would almost wish that the snow goose would become extinct. But no such luck.
I liked this story on geese by Tim Ball: http://nrsp.com/NRSP-Media/Documents/article-Ball-Country%20Guide-07.06-Geese.pdf
A friend from Conn. said the geese were overwintering in the lake by his house. He said they number in the thousands, and the frozen lake is covered with green goo. They invade his lawn for food. He is not happy with the hunting ban in that, and neighboring states.
Whatever has contributed to their increased population, it is certain that banning DDT did not contribute to it. Long forgotten tests show it does not influence egg shells. When spraying cattle, we some times sprayed each other just for fun. Its harmless. If memory serves, tests proved that fact, about the time the EPA outlawed it.
has done a lot to improve breeding areas for wetland birds in general.
We need more hunters.
well the channel country is currently flooding and the wonderful Diamantina River (of Little River Band fame) has come to life. I expect my skies to be full of high flying pelicans as they make their way from the coast to Lake Eyre for another breeding season. Have you ever noticed you never see a baby pelican?
Ian Mott says
The unambiguous cause of the increase in geese population is mankind and his habitat enhancements that also suit wildlife. As reported by Tim Low, studies have consistently shown that highest bird density and diversity is found on the edges of urban areas where housing, farming and forest all interface.
Along a transect from CBD, through the suburbs and “acreage” settlements, through farmland and eventually to so called “untouched” nature reserves, the lowest bird density and diversity will be found at the two ends, the CBDs and the nature reserves. The greatest density and diversity will be found in the middle where small farms interface with lifestyle blocks and fragmented forest areas. The reasons for this are many.
Paved roads deliver surplus run-off to adjoining land which is more likely to be wooded. And these microscale water surpluses maintain enhanced leaf growth and extend this base element of the food chain over longer growing seasons. The lifestyle block water feature, and the small farms high density dams and bores produce smaller but more viable home ranges, especially when combined with less than professionally managed orchard crops that fill key gaps in both duration and quality of food supply. Insect pests are less dilligently managed and thereby produce a surplus for bird life.
The resulting mosaic of wet and dry soils, thickets and pasture, orchard crops and woodlands amounts to a substantial improvement in habitat quality and viability over the more random, but less diverse habitats of natural systems. And all wildlife, not just birds, have voted with their feet.
The irony is that the conversion of broadacre land to smallholdings has now been restricted under the blunt instruments of regional planning processes. It seems the wildlife themselves were never consulted when preparing these plans. Governments have been content, instead, to take the perverted perspectives of the metrocentric green movement as a surrogate for good ecology.
Meanwhile the CBDs get bigger, the suburbs get denser, the farms are rendered less viable by perverse regulatory outcomes and the area mismanaged under nature reserves is expanding. The underperforming and mediocre habitats are actively promoted to produce the environment the ignorant public so richly deserves.
spangled drongo says
They’re doin’ it already! If you’re at the coast look up and that tiny flock of sparrows is likely to be a mob of pelicans circling for the thermals to get as much altitude as possible for the thousand mile journey. The big breeding window is opening.
And you’d wonder why they’d call it “little river”. At the junction with Farrars Creek it’s 100 kilometers wide. However Farrars is probably not flooding at present.
Don B says
If locomotives can have cow catchers, why can’t jet engines have goose screens?
All three NY metro airports face onto marshes which attract birds. JFK borders to the south on the Jamaica Bay National Wildlife Refuge a main landing spot on the east coast flyway for migrating birds, plus which there are tons of gulls, still attracted by a long abandoned garbage dump to the west. LaGuardia is on Flushing Bay and Newark is next to the marshlands in NJ.
Eat more wild goose!
Don, hope it was meant as a joke?
“why can’t jet engines have goose screens”
Otherwise I hope you are not working in aircraft design?
The size of the air intake is critical, you don’t want to restrict it any further!?
Helen Mahar says
Intersting take on increasing in geese numbers, and why they are not bothering to fly south for winter.
Note the use of well trained sheep dogs (collies) to hastle geese off golf courses.
As an anectodal aside to this, a gaggle of domestic geese are ideal for training a sheep dog pup to learn to round up, control and move animals without nippong them. If a pup gets too close the geese attack.
Ann Novek says
” Eat more wild goose!” – IceClass
As a huntsman IceClass ( as well as a Canadian´) you should know that Canadian Goose is uneatable, it tastes like an old shoe. No hunter hunts Canadian Geese for the meat!!!
In Sweden there are thousands of these geese and they are mostly considered as a pest beacuse of the droppings. The geese prefer urban/ habitated areas with lawns,parks, golf courses and beaches. There’s currently a small protection hunt on Canadian Geese in Sweden. Note they are very similar to the smaller barnacle goose:
PS. Often it is only birds over 3kg that are an danger for airplanes, sucg as swans and geese. There ‘s also a 24/7 hour hunt on birds on the airfields.
Ann Novek says
Domestic geese can be very aggressive. I have had many of my horses chasen by angry geese , almost hanging in the horses tails and hindlegs.
There are as well geese in Swedish prison , better than guard dogs:))))
The geese is also Rome’s holy bird as they warned the inhabitans once in the old age against barbarian attacks!( With their cackle).
Helen Mahar says
Sorry, incorrectly typed link
Eli Rabett says
Care to provide a link to some of those long forgotten studies that “show that DDT doesn’t thin egg shells” Willi? or is that something Rush told you?
les lloyd says
you don’t have a clue what a goose tastes like. my guess is you have never even tasted one.
i have eaten canadian, lesser canadian, snow, and white fronted geese, as well as tundra swan and more ducks than i can count.. they are all quite edible. especially if you like dark meat.
if there is one thing that has resulted in the increasing numbers of water fowl its due to the conservation efforts of groups like “ducks unlimited”. as well as money derived from taxes on ammo, guns and license costs. hunters are responsible for more spending on wildlife conservation than people think.
Chris Schoneveld says
Geese even more than ducks are a delicacy here in France. Goose confit (French: confit d’oie) is a French dish made with the leg of the goose. The confit is prepared in a centuries-old process of preservation that consists of salt curing a piece of meat (generally goose but also duck and pork) and then poaching it in its own fat. To prepare a confit, the meat is rubbed with salt and garlic, then covered and refrigerated for up to 36 hours. Salt curing the meat acts as a preservative.
And then we have a culinary speciality called “foie gras” which is made from goose liver.
“It is one of the most popular and well-known delicacies in French cuisine and its flavour is described as rich, buttery, and delicate, unlike that of a regular duck or goose liver. Foie gras can be sold whole, or prepared into mousse, parfait, or pâté (the lowest quality), and is typically served as an accompaniment to another food item, such as toast or steak.” (from Wikipedia).
Ann, Les already caught you out, but you are lying. C’mon now. Admit you are a vegan. I paid no attention to your comments about the Polar Bears, but now that I know you are clueless, I will pay more attention. Your agenda is showing, and it’s not pretty.
LOL! Yes CoRev, you have no agenda showing, you are totally clued in and it’s all pretty. If you think somehow that your contributions are regarded as factual and unbiased I suggest you take a reality check. Reality? Oh yeah, folk like you are against that. No wonder you remain ignorant when you refuse to read on account of your own prejudices. LOL!!!
Travis, I’m not sure what you are going on about, but from your vehemence I must assume that you agree with Ann that Canadian Goose is a poor choice as food. Furthermore, I also assume that you agree with Ann’s comment: “you should know that Canadian Goose is uneatable, it tastes like an old shoe. No hunter hunts Canadian Geese for the meat!!!”
Ever been to a “Game Feast”? Ever tasted Canadian Goose? As far as that goes have you ever hunted? I wonder why those millions of Geese killed in the US every year are eaten. Who would want to eat shoes?
Sheesh!! Talk about agendas. Tsk, tsk!
Ann Novek says
Hunters in Swden have told me they won’t eat Canadian Goose and that it tastes old leather !!! Just FYI.
IF it was such a delicacy , there would be an ” undercover hunt ” of these birds. Especially by immigrants that are keen on swans and ducks. No such thing exist however. No thousands of geese are killed illegally if the meat was very good!
I suggest you take your meds Co Rev. You have accused Ann of lying, having agendas, being vegan and being clueless, but by all means, go ahead and assume. It seems habitual. As for my eating and ‘recreational’ habits, you are as ignorant on these are you are on most things! LOL!
Sylvia Else says
“If locomotives can have cow catchers, why can’t jet engines have goose screens?”
They would be too heavy, create too much drag, and have too much effect on the air going into the engines. You’re talking about something that can catch a bird weighing 6kg going at a relative speed of about 400km/h (during the initial aircraft climb). It’s not practical.
Ann, I’m sorry, but now you are accusing Swedish hunters as not being sportsmen. Using a virtual “Hunter(s)” comments for evidence is just agenda driven bias. Goose Hunting is big sport here and they are considered excellent food. Of course, laws here do not allow for their wide spread commercial use, so most modern metros would not know anything about it.
Helen Mahar says
Years ago I studied Land Management. Particularly useful is the methodology for flora and fauna management, taking in rare and endangered species, as well as pests, weeds, and wider ecosystem management.
First, research and understand as much as possible about the species or system. In particular what recent changes could have influenced the problem, Then do a SWOT analysis, to determine the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats associated with the species. From this, work out a management strategy to achieve the best possible result from the least use of the limited resources available. Resources are always limited.
From the safety of other side of the world, the urbanised Canadian Geese problem appears a likely candidate for this methodology. First, tease it out.
1 What could be contributing to the dramatic increase in numbers?
From what has already been posted, several things come up.
– Protected species: hunting illegal. Higher breeding success rates.
– Dramatic increase in grain crops along Canadian USA grain belt – Higher survival rates for natural increase.
– Cessation of use of DDT. Questionable, and geese are not raptors.
2Why do geese readily colonise and apparently prefer urban habitats to wild ones?
– Fewer of their natural predators in urban areas.
– Urban parks, airports and golf courses ideal habitats for geese
– UHI effect creates a slightly warmer habitat
3 Why do they prefer to winter over in these urban areas instead of flying south for winter?
– Is temperature the deciding factor, or is it availability of winter food supply? (I suspect the latter.)
– UHI factor.
There is a lot more to this problem, and how to manage it, than the above. But already some possibilities, or combinations of possiblilites appear.
1 Controlled hunting in urban areas. Cost nothing and potential for income from hunting permits.
2 Introduction of perceived predator (eg dogs allowed off leashes in local problem parks)
3 Review subsidies for corn ethanol production with regard to unintended consequences.
And so on. Of one thing I am fairly sure. If the problem of these urbanised geese is not effectively addressed, there will be a noticeable increase in another, even more opportunistic and adaptable bird. Lawyers, of the whose-fault-is-it variety.
Wild Canadian goose tastes just fine.
I have shot, plucked, gutted and roasted them.
You baste on a nice sauce and roast, or turn them into sausage.
Wild duck and geese are tasty, although hunting them is an early morning cold experience, for the most part.
Ian Mott says
Travis is Anne’s resident goon. They are both welded-on Greenpimp nutters. Anne is a self confessed vegan so any meat would not suit her perverted tastes.
Ann Novek says
Can you guys tell me why the Internet is full of devices that scare away the Canadian Geese if the geese are so tasty???
As me for being vegan , FYI I’m more or less a vegetarian ( I don’t eat my friends) , but I can on occasions put my fork in an animal that has lived a good life.
And Mottus Nuttus I’m thankful that Travis has a kind word for me sometimes as I get lots of abuse from the other dudes;))))
Les Lloyd says
i believe i was the first to point out that ann didn’t have a clue as to what she was talking about. and based on her reference to swedish hunters it appears i was also correct in assuming that she hasn’t eaten goose personally. i can only surmise that swedish canadian geese taste like shoe leather because they aren’t corn fed like the ones here in the u.s.. so don’t go blasting on corev for things that he wasn’t the first to mention. share the scorn.
Ann Novek says
LOL! LOL! Never heard such craziness that you need to corn feed wild Canadian Geese!!! LOL!
Ann Novek says
OK, OK , guys I give up now! You can eat your tasty ” old leather shoes” and enjoy it!!!
Helen Mahar says
Ann, there has been a huge increase in corn plantings in Canada and USA, influenced by ethanol subsidies. Geese love grain, any grain, and they greedily help themselves – shovel it in. This recent increase in an autumn food supply is a prime suspect for reasons their numbers have risen to nuisance levels. Farmers near Port Lincoln, S Aust, have this problem with their crops vs Cape Barren geese. And yes, grain fed birds are better eating.
Les Lloyd says
they corn feed themselves by eating the corn left in the fields after harvesting in the fall. they are just being opportunistic by locating the easiest source of food they can.
during the summer 90% of the geese are in alaska raising young out in the yukon-kuskokwim nat. wildlife refuge.
this airbus isn’t the first big jet knocked down by geese. in anchorage, alaska on sept. 22, 1995 a u.s. air force boeing e-3b awacs crashed on takeoff after colliding with more than 30 geese, killing 24. anchorage has now put a limit of what they think is an appropriate number of geese in the greater metro area. i think its like 2500 or so. each spring when the geese come back to nest, volunteers go out and both pinch eggs from the nest and round up the goslings before they can fly. the goslings are then transported across cook inlet to the north and released. the reason for this is that apparently the geese will return to where they learn to fly and not where they were hatched. i’m not sure of the cost in transporting them but i’m sure it’s not cheap.
Helen Mahar says
Bingo, Les. That’s the sort of management strategy worth hearing about.
Sorry you feel left out Les. Sniff. Your comment was not as venomous as Corev’s, but I’ll happily give you the same label. What mighty fine company you all keep. Hence why this is one of the very best environmental blogs on the planet.
I suggest we all subscribe to Helen’s logic and refuse to actually read published papers on the topic (can’t trust those biologists, they are only out for grant money and are all evil greenies. Not to mention that it was of course the biologists that implemented the goose-scaring devices and were clueless about habituation – pfftt!) and just make up our own conclusions. It will then at least have the outcome WE want. If Mott can do it with PBs and berries, why not Helen and geese? Don’t need to publish in Nature or Science -this blog is runner up in the community blog of the year. LOL!!!
As for Mott’s comment about Ann being Vegan, a Greenpimp etc (yawn…) more refusal to read anything written here that does not conform to the idiot’s ideals. Hence you stay an idiot. It’s great amusement though, LOL!!! Oh and Mott, we ALL know about your perverted tastes RAOTFL!!!
Ian Mott says
The other other thing to note about Travis is the way his posts all read like the work of a petulant 15 year old. As if his assorted pfftts and acronyms actually conveyed anything beyond juvenile sneering.
It is obvious to all that Anne has been caught out telling porkies again. So what gives? Did you two get sick of talking to yourselves without an audience on Anne’s blog?
Anne, you really are ignorant re: wildlife and humankind interactions. Some herbivores and predators actually do better when living near man. Two examples in the US that come to mind immediately are Coyotes and White Tailed deer. Both can be found inside metropolitan areas. Deer are a farmer’s bane since they can destroy crops, especially corn and soybeans, when not controlled.
With that comment, I would like to point out, that when sportsmen hear comments about wild game tasting like or being the consistency of old shoes, they understand the commenters have either not actually tasted or have tasted it when it is poorly prepared. Amongst us carnivores who cook wild game it is well know that it is best prepared with less cooking (rare) than the normal commercial meats as it is leaner. Thus we carnivores, closer to nature than the average metro-dweller, are eating food that is better for us, and doing our service in controlling critters, deer, that can quickly reach pest status.
Helen Mahar says
Getting back to the challenging part of this subject; mitigating the urban impact of a highly successful recovery program.
We seem to have, so far, hunting (somewhat risky within urban areas), various noise and mechanical scarers, trained dogs to move them on, and collecting eggs / rounding up and relocating goslings, to limit urban numbers. Any more ideas that have been tried?
Helen, there are no magic bullets to mitigation. From my own observations, noise makers are useless past a very, very short time frame (days.) Hunting has been successful, and continues whenever allowed. Raptors and dogs have been effective for birds by moving them on. For Coyotes, nothing has actually been successful from keeping them from spreading. Hunting is only successful enough to keep populations from exploding.
Every other method I can think of has been less successful than those listed above. Their main effect has been to a portion of our own human populations happy as being ?more? humane. Maybe some others here have had different experiences.
It seems there are numerous studies on the subject of DDT and its effect on birds, both pro and con.
Who to believe? I must confess that I have not read them, but have seen mostly brief reviews. I did find a summery of sorts, which did contain a number of studies, for what it is worth. It contains numerous citations which claim DDt had no effect. It does not show those that do, however:
I do know we used DDt for years after it became available for commercial use, and it had no effect on the wild Bob White Quail population in the rather extensive areas used by most of the ranchers while it was available. Quail populations do vary over time according to to weather: more during wet years, less during dry years.
In a side note, during the late 60s I was able to correlate quail and cattle’s feeding habits, and consumption, were correlated to changes in air pressure. Horses and terrapins (small land turtles) appear to affected as well.