“FORTY years ago conservationists feared that humpback whales were being hunted to extinction. Now numbers have returned to such a level that they have been taken off the danger list.”
At least that is one of the good news stories in yesterday’s The Australian. It continues:
“The latest count stands at 40,000 mature individuals, meaning that, for now at least, the humpback is safe from the threat of extinction.
Several other whales, such as the blue whale, the biggest animal on earth, and the sei and southern right whales, are also growing in number after similar scares.”
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
” The blue whale (Balaenoptera musculus), fin whale (Balaenoptera physalus) and sei whale (Balaenoptera borealis) all remain listed as Endangered, pending more evidence of recovery.” -http://tursiops.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6384
There will also be a statement / article / translation from the Icelandic Minke Whalers Association on my blog on Fridaý re the downlisting of humpbacks and their view on downlisting of minke whales.
Organic, free range Humpback steak anyone?
Ann, thanks for the link but got anything that doesn’t rehash old alarmist Sea $heep and Greenpea$ drivel?
Organic, free human steak anyone?
Yeah – one species temporarily reprieved – and no thanks, of course, to naysayers like you.
How’s big is the corporate payoff this month, Jennifer?
Oh, the arduous life of an industry stooge!
Good to see animals being moved off the danger list. Encouraging that conservation efforts, in this case, ceasing hunting, can have positive results. Now for the Southern Rights, which have quite noticeably been increasing in numbers.
Only 40,000 humpbacks? That must be only the Australian East and West Coast population, not the global total.
And don’t you just love the line, “all remain listed as Endangered, pending more evidence of recovery.” In other words, they can continue to portray these species as endangered as long as no-one spoils their party by doing a proper survey.
I just can’t wait to barbeque the next humpback that washes up on a beach.
Only 40,000 humpbacks? That must be only the Australian East and West Coast population, not the global total.
And don’t you just love the line, “all remain listed as Endangered, pending more evidence of recovery.” In other words, they can continue to portray these species as endangered as long as no-one spoils their party by doing a proper survey.
I just can’t wait to barbeque the next humpback that washes up on a beach.
“Now for the Southern Rights, which have quite noticeably been increasing in numbers.”
I think you will find that their numbers may be increasing, but slowly and to levels nowhere near pre-exploitation.
Libby, if the definition if “safe” numbers is near pre-exploitation, count me out as your type of conservationist. I would put my limited resources towards more attainable goals.
I am pleased that numbers of Blue whales, while obviously not near “pre eploitation” have increased to the level where they are considered no longer endangered. That is good news. Lets enjoy it.
Southern Rights are common sight along Southern Australian beaches now, and that is a visible improvement in numbers. Lets enjoy that too.
Sheeshk Libby, what type of conservationist are you?? LOL!
‘Australia is the winter home to around 1,500 of the 12,000 or so Southern Right Whales remaining worldwide; still a small fraction of the estimated 60,000 – 100,000 that existed prior to whaling.’
The calving time for SRWs in Australian waters is May to October, so they are often seen off SA at this time of year. They are occasional visitors to NSW and WA. Being highly visible by a larger and more whale-aware population of humans does not necessarily mean that there is a visible improvement in their numbers. It does suggest that we enjoy seeing them and look out for them during the whale watching season (along with media coverage).
>as long as no-one spoils their party by doing a proper survey.
Mott do you ever read anything?
Some bizarre statements coming out of some quarters:
“This report should not be an excuse to hunt these species back to an endangered level again.” — Greenpeace spokesperson Frode Pleym
Anyone have an idea who is suggesting any of the recovering whale species be hunted back to endangered levels again?
Free Palestine – you seem to think that the humpback species has a “temporary reprieve”. Maybe you can tell me?
Helen – actually the Southern right whale is also now “Least Concern (LC)”.
http://cmsdata.iucn.org/downloads/cetacean_table_for_website.pdf
Worth noting that both the species that were downlisted were protected by the IWC yonks before the blanket global moratorium was put into effect.
The very notion of a pre-exploitation population is so vague and indeterminate as to lack all meaning. Whale species were not all hunted at the same period in history, in no small part because the early whale fleets lacked the technology to hunt some species.
The hunt for Blue Whales did not start until the Norwegians invented the explosive harpoon. And this took place after the more traditional Yankee whaling fleet had dwindled through declining markets for whale oil and lack of investment due to competition from other more profitable industries.
So whaling first concentrated on the Northern Right Whales, followed by the Southern. The over harvesting of this population created a relative Krill surplus that allowed the numbers of Blue Whales, Humpbacks and others to increase and the subsequent over harvesting of Blue Whales further boosted Humpback numbers.
The decline in Humpback stocks would certainly have produced a rise in the Minke population and most likely, the crab eater seal population. Species have responded to changes in niche size in this way for millions of years.
And it follows that any attempt at complete restoration of the pre-harvest populations of all whale species would result in a serious imbalance in that food chain.
And if the whale wally fraternity had the slightest respect for the truth they would compare current populations with an estimate of the pre-disturbance equilibrium populations rather than the highly misleading pre-harvest ones. But of course, that would reveal a much more robust recovery and facilitate the case for a return of sustainable resource management.
>Worth noting that both the species that were downlisted were protected by the IWC yonks before the blanket global moratorium was put into effect.
LOL! Worth noting why some Southern Hemisphere HWs didn’t recover for many years after their protected status, not to mention South Atlantic SRWs!
>The over harvesting of this population created a relative Krill surplus that allowed the numbers of Blue Whales, Humpbacks and others to increase and the subsequent over harvesting of Blue Whales further boosted Humpback numbers. The decline in Humpback stocks would certainly have produced a rise in the Minke population and most likely, the crab eater seal population. Species have responded to changes in niche size in this way for millions of years. And it follows that any attempt at complete restoration of the pre-harvest populations of all whale species would result in a serious imbalance in that food chain.
Mott can you please supply literature to support your assertions? For example, last I read it was assumed that SWRs ate krill south of the Polar Front, however it is known that copepods make up a large part of their diet.
>And if the whale wally fraternity had the slightest respect for the truth
Yes Mott, I think you do suit the title of a whale wally, or maybe whale wanker.
“Libby, if the definition if “safe” numbers is near pre-exploitation, count me out as your type of conservationist.”
Helen, I’m not sure how you can extrapolate what my “type of conservationist” is from what I wrote, but anyway….
Sydney has had a southern right whale mother and calf visiting various beaches for the past two weeks. Many have been enjoying this sight, although the whales have often been moved from beach to beach by the surfers who have tried to get too close. As Travis has noted, it is not unusual to see southern rights in SA waters at this time of year.
“Worth noting why some Southern Hemisphere HWs didn’t recover for many years after their protected status, not to mention South Atlantic SRWs!”
Indeed.
Why the LOL, Travis? The blanket global moratorium had nothing to do with these downlistings, the downlisted whales were already protected.
Indeed it has taken years for species that were over-exploited to recover. This has little if anything to do with a useless “global moratorium” that came in to effect no earlier than 20 years after the humpbacks had already been protected. As I recall the southern right whale was already protected before the IWC even came into being. Meanwhile the Norwegians are applying the RMP in practice to the North Atlantic minke population, and it remains in the least concern category.
But it doesn’t surprise me that some quarters (including the whale wally fraternity) are looking to give “the moratorium” credit for these recoveries, despite it being earlier protections that did the good deeds. Is it any wonder that other lower profile species aren’t recovering when people are prepared to put their ideologies ahead of reality?
No Travis, the population response of one species to the removal of most of the population of a competing species is so obvious and so commonly demonstrated at both micro and macro level, that the burden of proof rests on you, who would seek to imply that this was not the case for the whale population.
And both you and Libby might like to ouline the probability of causal agents that might limit the recovery of a population. Many people would tend to assign the greatest weight to the likelihood that a number of competing species had since expanded their population to more fully occupy the available niche in the food chain and thereby limit the capacity of the reduced species to recover.
This is the very essence of the fundamental notion that “nature abhors a vacuum”. It is one of those notions that are so self evident that no-one would ever bother to “prove” the bleeding obvious. But if you have some bright new theory that completely negates common sense then the burden rests squarely on you to provide us with detail of both your theory and the supporting evidence.
>Why the LOL, Travis? The blanket global moratorium had nothing to do with these downlistings, the downlisted whales were already protected.
I’m not laughing at the moratorium David, nor am I giving ‘the moratorium any credit’.
>despite it being earlier protections that did the good deeds.
That is what I am laughing at – the fact that the Soviets did good deeds and respected the protection granted to HWs and SRWs and continued to take hundreds of them, thus severely hampering their chances of recovery!
>No Travis, the population response of one species to the removal of most of the population of a competing species is so obvious and so commonly demonstrated at both micro and macro level, that the burden of proof rests on you, who would seek to imply that this was not the case for the whale population.
Pfftt! Nice try Mott!!!You made the statement, you back it up. IF it is so ‘commonly demonstrated’, then you will have no problem finding the literature.
>Many people
Good Mott. You can then source these many people can’t you?
>It is one of those notions that are so self evident that no-one would ever bother to “prove” the bleeding obvious.
Quickly throws in a cover line so he doesn’t have to do any work!!! LOL!
>But if you have some bright new theory that completely negates common sense then the burden rests squarely on you to provide us with detail of both your theory and the supporting evidence.
Until you come up with evidence to prove your assertions Mott, they stand as throwaway guff from an ignoramus who wants the attention of the class but can only be a fool to get it.
A very interesting point you make, David. For you have described what is now such standard green MO that it is now a core attribute of life as we know it in “Bull$hitistan”.
First they grossly exaggerate the threat posed by the actions of a non-urban minority on a resource that in many cases is already under recovery.
Then they impose draconian measures that make the minority object loudly. And the more they object, the more the urban majority assumes that “something” is being done.
And after a decade or two when the grossly exaggerated threat fails to materialise the greens claim credit for saving the planet, again.
It is all smoke an mirrors, the hallmark of those who contribute nothing, solve no problems and do nothing more than posture in someone else’s territory, obtaining cheap thrills at others expense.
I see, that’s what you found to be the laughing matter. Obviously illegal hunts didn’t help (as one would expect), but given the level of over-depletion the recoveries and the biology of the species, the recoveries weren’t about to come about quickly anyway. We’ll all be dead before the blue whale get’s back to anything like it once was. If only they were all breeding like rabbits, but alas..
gets!
Standard cop-out with abuse by Travis.
You claim to be informed but refuse to tell us why other whale species and other krill eating species did not expand their population to exploit a niche left by a harvested whale population.
I made it very clear why there is unlikely to be much literature on such a self evident ecological process. So you are clearly trying to support an implied green position that has no basis in either logic or fact.
But this is nothing new for you, is it?
And when cornered, surprise, surprise, he muddies the water with abuse.
Ian,
Yes, but at least we can expect to eat humpback soon.
Although, I have heard that at least one Tokyo whale proprietor thinks that humpbacks taste like crap.
(How does he know? Well I won’t go there unless anyone is interested)
>It is all smoke an mirrors, the hallmark of those who contribute nothing, solve no problems and do nothing more than posture in someone else’s territory, obtaining cheap thrills at others expense.
Ah, Mott, those mirrors will get you every time! The irony is priceless.
>Obviously illegal hunts didn’t help (as one would expect), but given the level of over-depletion the recoveries and the biology of the species, the recoveries weren’t about to come about quickly anyway.
Yes, he says as he lifts up the corner of the rug and hastily sweeps! Pfffft!
>You claim to be informed but refuse to tell us why other whale species and other krill eating species did not expand their population to exploit a niche left by a harvested whale population.
I made it very clear why there is unlikely to be much literature on such a self evident ecological process. So you are clearly trying to support an implied green position that has no basis in either logic or fact.
RAOTFL!!! Classic Mott. Or is that Schiller? LOL! You don’t even KNOW if there is literature on ‘such a self evident ecological process’! You have just pulled these Mottisms out of your nether regions (look out Alex!) and hoped for the best! Excellent solid, scientific theory as always Mott, which helps to make this one of the very best environmental bogs on the planet!!!My sides are hurting from laughing so much!!!
> Yes, he says as he lifts up the corner of the rug and hastily sweeps!
???
So do you actually have anything to contribute here, Travis?
Just give it time, David. The price of food has a long way to rise yet and the luxury of an untapped resource is not an indulgence that will last for long under the Pax Orientalis. Whether a few fringe elements in marginal countries who’s time has past agree or not, the world will be run by a culture that has an extremely broad and restless palate.
It is not a matter of if, but rather when, whale comes back on the mainstream menu. And they have no idea who, or what, a “Travis” might be and care even less for his bile based opinions.
I’m willing to give it a shot, Ian. Minke, Bryde’s, Sei, and Fin have all been quite fantastic, so I don’t see how humpback could be that bad. I recently had “heart steak”, and some other bits which would probably be better left unmentioned around here.
Now you’ve got me curious, David. I am a firm supporter of the “edible landscape”, having eaten dog, snake, flying fox, witchety grubs and bumble bee larvae. We once had an association of culinary wanderers called the “restless palates” to which I am proud to advise that I was elected to the post of “(Acting) Chief Glutton”.
I reckon domestic moggy might be the next blasphemy to hit the table, served with cianti and fava beans, of course.
Some points from me:
http://annimal.bloggsida.se/
There will be more whaling news on my blog from Iceland this weekend
Well Mottus,
I have eaten grasshoppers and ants dipped in chocolate sauce. Actually found those items in a delikatessen shop some years ago:)!
>So do you actually have anything to contribute here, Travis?
Obviously you don’t Mott. You make claims and can’t substantiate them, then put up a typically piss-poor excuse of there not ‘likely’ being anything out there to support you. What a crock. You are a waste of cyberspace, but at least do this best environmental blog proud. Go on, have another hissy fit and cry how it’s up to me to prove you wrong, charlatan.
>”(Acting) Chief Glutton”.
Yes, Mott, we’ve unfortunately seen the YouTube videos! LOL!!! Ooo yuk.
Does your mother have a cat, Travis? Moggy with teriyaki sauce, made even better by the nature of its pedigree.
Nothing but bile to contribute, again, I see. It is nice to know that people like you must pay exhorbitant rents for housing no bigger than a country toilet. Karma I suppose. Off you go now, Gollum is waiting.
Does your mother have a cat, Travis? Moggy with teriyaki sauce, made even better by the nature of its pedigree.
Nothing but bile to contribute, again, I see. It is nice to know that people like you must pay exhorbitant rents for housing no bigger than a country toilet. Karma I suppose. Off you go now, Gollum is waiting.
Does your mother have a cat, Travis? Moggy with teriyaki sauce, made even better by the nature of its pedigree.
Nothing but bile to contribute, again, I see. It is nice to know that people like you must pay exhorbitant rents for housing no bigger than a country toilet. Karma I suppose. Off you go now, Gollum is waiting.
Back to my family again Mott? LOL!!! You are so very predictable. My mother would love for you to try something on her cat I’m sure, better still, why not do something to her?!!You poor little man. Your only avenue is to threaten posters’ family and pets. Tsk.
What sort of dwelling do I live in??? Renting??? Man you are waayyy off, but then to be expected for someone who makes dopey claims about food chains but can’t back them up with facts. Your stupidity and cowardice are here for all to see Mott. Most amusing. All you can manage are moronic thoughts and hollow threats. Star pupil for this blog.
Are ian mott and graeme bird the same person?
Readers should note that Travis has links to Greenpimp. The primary task they appear to have assigned for him here is to debase any discussion that is contrary to the party line with abuse and endless tedium about himself. And as you can see, he is in a continuous state of serious humour deficit.
Japan has now got warrants out for three SS smurfs in relation to a February 2007 incident.
Look forward to more 🙂
Wow, this is top news on NHK, and they are announcing the names of these creeps too.
>Readers should note that Travis has links to Greenpimp.
More unsubstantiated crap from Mott. Yawn.
>And as you can see, he is in a continuous state of serious humour deficit.
LOL!
Yes Mott, I regale the readers with endless tedium about how my wife is not paying any attention to me, I am a glutton and I am too stupid and lazy to back up my kindy claims about food chains. Hee, hee, hee!
Smurfs David?! One wonders how they would handle Care Bears!
Great news, David. I look forward to these droogs getting rounded up by interpol and seeing lots of footage as their extradition proceeds.
This is a test of international credibility. They can run but they cannot hide.
Ian, I don’t have much faith in certain members of the international community (glancing southwards), but the PR-spin value of having SS cult members on interpol’s international wanted list is probably going to be quite valuable.
And if my lack of faith in the international community works out to be well justified, it will also be good PR-spin value having those uncooperative members of the international community exposed for not meeting responsibilities under the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts Against the Safety of Maritime Navigation.
Absolutely, David. The important thing to do when dealing with hypocrites is to maximise exposure of that hypocrisy. If certain governments seek to wrap themselves in a veneer of morality whilst condoning acts of piracy then they deserve no freebies at others expense. Japan should drag this out to maximise the scale and extent of discomfort.
And if certain countries decide they would rather ignore key international conventions, especially those in respect of criminal conspiracy, then Japan needs to test the value of those conventions and selectively withdraw from those that do not maintain reciprocality.
Hey Trav – speaking of hippo-crites – it’s a wonder that waddler can spend so much time debating the philosophical details of international politics. Probably has a wireless comms link at the Eureka stockade on the Murray Barrages beaming out the news on Redneck One radio in between banjo tracks. They won’t need siphons – they could just use the big vacuum. He’s probably writing the entire denialist essay on Australian grazing research when he’s not philosophising about decking his fellow Australians, beating dept officers or torching the national estate. Being a sell-out Jap whaling sympathiser is an interesting position for someone who tells bulldust stories about cenotaphs and debts to society. It’s a wonder his own lot haven’t fragged his butt by now.
Yup Luke. But hippos are intelligent and way more attractive. I’m sure the diggers would love him walking on the same side of the street.
>The important thing to do when dealing with hypocrites is to maximise exposure of that hypocrisy.
I’d say he and his fellow AGW in-denialists have this little ditty pasted up on their toilet wall.
Hope your mother hasn’t got a cat Luke. Oh that’s right, back peddles, it was humour. LOL!
So where are those studies Mott on Antarctic ecosystem cascades? Pffttt!
Two posts by the blog stalkers and not a word on topic. Last we heard of Luke he was under his desk, taking comfort from Mr Thumb, in the foetal position.
Any old excuse eh Mott?
Travis wrote:
>So where are those studies Mott on Antarctic ecosystem cascades?
So where are they blog ignoramous?
More white noise.
So where is the literature Mott? LOL!!!!Phoney baloney, you do this blog proud!
Australians kill Colin. Why did it take so long?
Because DECC is incompetent.