PSYCHIATRISTS have detected the first case of “climate change delusion” – Writing in the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry, Joshua Wolf and Robert Salo of our Royal Children’s Hospital say this delusion was a “previously unreported phenomenon”. “A 17-year-old man was referred to the inpatient psychiatric unit at Royal Children’s Hospital Melbourne with an eight-month history of depressed mood . . . He also . . . had visions of apocalyptic events.” …..”The patient had also developed the belief that, due to climate change, his own water consumption could lead within days to the deaths of millions of people through exhaustion of water supplies.” But never mind the poor boy, who became too terrified even to drink. What’s scarier is that people in charge of our Government seem to suffer from this “climate change delusion”, too. […]So psychiatrists are treating a 17-year-old tipped over the edge by global warming fearmongers?
Here is Prime Minister Kevin Rudd yesterday, with his own apocalyptic vision: “If we do not begin reducing the nation’s levels of carbon pollution, Australia’s economy will face more frequent and severe droughts, less water, reduced food production and devastation of areas such as the Great Barrier Reef and Kakadu wetlands.”
And here is a senior Sydney Morning Herald journalist aghast at the horrors described in the report on global warming released on Friday by Rudd’s guru, Professor Ross Garnaut: “Australians must pay more for petrol, food and energy or ultimately face a rising death toll . . .”
Wow. Pay more for food or die. Is that Rudd’s next campaign slogan?
Continue reading Andrew Bolt’s Herald Sun blog: Doomed to a fatal delusion over climate change
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
Well Jennifer – this takes the cake and sets a new low for even your blog’s standards. Clearly, the 17 year old was suffering from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder.
Paul would have us believe that this boy’s condition was brought on by ‘global warming fearmongers’.
I’m convinced.
Slim, note that the shrinks reported it as a “previously unreported delusion”. There was no indication of cause and effect, merely a new nuance in the world of the delusionati.
Are you so seriously captured by climate ideology that you are capable of suggesting that the volume of pronouncements on climate catastrophe will not manifest themselves, in unintended forms, in the minds of the fragile?
Paul does indeed indicate cause “So psychiatrists are treating a 17-year-old tipped over the edge by global warming fearmongers?”
“The patient had also developed the belief that, due to climate change, his own water consumption could lead within days to the deaths of millions of people through exhaustion of water supplies.”
This is a symptom of the boy’s psychosis. That would be like blaming the existence of Napoleon if a psychotic patient had the delusion that he was Napoleon..
Desperate and pathetic – entirely unscientific and without evidential basis. But hey, when was was the content of this blog ever concerned with real science?
As a cure for Climate Change Denial Syndrome I suggest watching:
A Taste of Garnaut: The Climate Challenge
Just click my link.
Actually, this is not funny. If you go to YouTube and check the global warming clips you will find many commenting teenagers that feel like disaster is ready to strike at any moment. I think Algore should be in jail for this.
ROTFL !
Tilo: I’m worried you haven’t reassured them yet
well in the old days we would all head off to India for some meditation.
apparently that’s still a good idea as India appears to have it under control
http://indefenceofliberty.org/story.aspx?id=1530&pubid=1309
quote:: A brief comment on India’s climate plan
Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, outlined eight key elements of the National Plan on Climate Change, while releasing the document on 30 June 2008. There is very little that is new in this document, except the attempt to integrate many long standing policy goals as part of the climate change discourse. This document reflects the attempt to be in line with the new climate fashion, yet, unable to ignore the economic and political reality of low access to energy that afflicts most Indians.
The five key points to emerge from this plan document are –
No firm link between the documented changes and warming due to anthropogenic climate change has yet been established;
Need for energy to meet the developmental aspirations of the people;
Promote energy efficiency and development of alternative sources of energy
Every citizen of the planet should have an equal share of the planetary atmospheric space;
Rejection of any national emission target.
::end quote
No firm link between the documented changes and warming due to anthropogenic climate change has yet been established;
meditation still works :):)
And so refreshing to see that bastion of reason Andrew Bolt being used as a reference on this blog. I would have thought that this blog provides ample evidence of climate change delusion.
Actually perhaps the poster has a deep sense of irony? Silly me.
good on you Patrick B – attack the messenger – that’s true to form 😉
I stopped reading anyone who quotes blogsphere along time ago. Quaint relationships don’t make up for original work in the field nor do they shift the thinking public. I treat them like cattle dogs in my letter box.
“Actually, this is not funny. If you go to YouTube and check the global warming clips you will find many commenting teenagers that feel like disaster is ready to strike at any moment. I think Algore should be in jail for this.”
Maybe you could blame the people who wilfully ignore science and leave the kids with the problem.
Right on. Go for the mental illness and push in climate change too. The standards are really getting better on this blog. High class stuff.
Maybe they’re seriously worried about this:
Conditions worsen for Murray-Darling
The drought is getting worse for the Murray-Darling Basin, with June’s inflows the lowest on record and expected rainfall to stay low, a report has revealed.
The Murray-Darling Basin Commission’s latest Drought Update shows inflows for June were at 95 gigalitres which is 11 gigalitres lower than that of the previous record low in 2006.
In June last year inflows were recorded at 220 gigalitres.
The figures are a long way from the long-term average at 680 gigalitres.
Inflows for the three months of Autumn were 200 gigalitres, just five gigaglitres above last year’s record low.
Murray Darling Basin Commission chief executive Wendy Craik says the low autumn inflows and dry conditions for June points towards low inflows for the remainder of the year.
“In other words, regrettably, the drought is getting worse,” she said.
continues …. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/07/10/2299822.htm
The boy had an under-lying psychiatric condition predisposing him to “climate change delusion.”
However, usually psychiatrists when publishing reports of a “previously unreported phenomenon” have reason to suspect they have identified a trend.
Michael Foucault proved that the level of madness (and criminality) varied dramatically over time, even within the same society. Much of this had to do with shifting definitions and tolerance of eccentricities, yet in times of cultural morbidity psychiatric issues increase. In fact, whole societies can go mad, almost spontaneously, it would seem.
The infestation of the Salem countryside by witches in the late 1690’s, is a classic example.
Sightings, reams of evidence, multiple hyperlinks offered by Luke, proved the existence of dozens of witches to the magistrates. The debate was over. The science settled. It was time to act, and that’s what they did. Hundreds were arrested and tortured, 20 executed. One man was slowly crushed with stones in public, because he “denied” witchcraft existed!
No doubt the Rudd government would have commissioned a draft report on how to curb the witch problem with the announcement that an apocalypse is at hand unless we drive this evil from our midst.
In Salem, those that “denied” there was a witch problem were arrested as shills of the witches, if not witches themselves. James Hansen wants to arrest climate denialist kingpins. Shocking, how little things have changed.
Most relevant to this thread—Salem’s witch problem actually increased during the trials as some people became so infected with the meme they began to act out as witches! Others real did fall ill from spells cast. Some witnesses had real seizures in the presents of witches. And dozens saw impossibly supernatural acts of witchcraft and spectral spirits.
Could the modern manifestations be not only the mentally ill boy in Melbourne, but opaque temperature record “adjustments” going on at GISS? How about Mann’s notorious hockey stick graph? Are modern scientists seeing spectral data spirits? Will Hansen have seizures during his testimony before the US Congress? Tim Flannery is already speaking in tongues. Garnaut has seen 90 years into the future down to the last econometric decimal point. Is that not the modern equivalent of a spectral vision or prophecy? It is certainly not rational science, because it can not be contested.
Interestingly, the witch problem simply disappeared a few years after it began leaving nothing but the shameful stain on Salem’s history. Might the same happen to the AGW witch hunt?
A “previously unreported phenomenon”, eh?
Climate change delusion is already well and truly a common morbidity in our polity. Perhaps, the psychiatrists missed Bob “We’ve lost the planet” Brown on the ABC the other day.
If we tell our children there are ghosts and then put them to bed. What do you think will come of it?
Now tell them there is no future.
Wes – you need a session on the desk as a regional counseller in droughted areas. Might wake you up. That is if we wish to raise ourselves above the trivialisation.
Wes
Have a read of this address to the students at Princeton University
http://www.varchive.org/lec/671206pri.htm
I think you might find it relevant to the thread here.
At last we have a diagnosis for Luke who seems to obsessively watch this blog and jump in with what are becoming increasingly bizarre contributions.
By the way, did anyone watch the Hollowmen last night on ABC – I can’t wait until they do an episode about Climate Change.
Slim
You are obviously a denier of the science (oh sweet irony). Have you got any peer reviewed articles you can refer to in order to back up your statement that:
“”Clearly, the 17 year old was suffering from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder””
On drought ravaged MDB;
“Craik said growers were proving surprisingly resilient, pointing to barely changed grape harvests last year, which dropped from 1.9 to 1.8 mln tonnes as farmers introduced more water-efficient cropping systems.”
You got me there, Julian. My whole refutation gone up in smoke. The readers here are so deft with their razor sharp logic.
I trust you’ll be adding the links to the peer reviewed articles demonstrating that global warming alarmism is inducing severe psychotic episodes in young people, such as those occurring with bipolar or schizophrenic disorders. Otherwise this post remains a scurrilous and totally unscientific tabloid beat-up. You’d think a MD like Paul would have more professional integrity than that.
Slim
here’s the link. Now show us some peer reviewed science to back up your claim which refutes this research. That is, where does it say the lad had a bipolar or schizophrenic disorder.
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a791365692?words=joshua%7cwolf%7crobert%7csalo&hash=2677452474
Otherwise if you can’t your just shooting off at the lip.
A link only a mad rock scientist would be familiar with.
Thank you, Louis 😉
http://www.varchive.org/lec/671206pri.htm
There are dozens off topic digressions one could make about this lecture. It’s dated—evolution has integrated punctuation, paradigm shifts and rest of complexity theory. In other ways, the speech is still fresh. I’m sure the catastrophists among us will find many pleasing moments of utter despair.
Yet Immanuel Velikovsky has put his finger on exactly what I think the AGW orthodoxy has stumbled upon and unconsciously embraced whole-heartedly. It is why the AGW myth is as powerful as an ancient mystery cult and every bit as unhealthy to our rationality, the sanity of our polity, and ultimately our modern liberties we take for granted at our peril.
‘So when I come here to speak about mankind in amnesia it is because I realize the severity of the situation. Something of immense importance is at stake. Before I finish I will read you a letter from one of my readers.
“I feel that the ancients in myth, epic and sacred works have been trying to tell us something about a problem that bothered them a great deal. It appears fairly clear that our ancestors were trying to communicate a deep fear, a terrible anxiety. They where talking about a problem that was so terrible that the most drastic measures to group discipline and/or self-repression were justified. It was a powerful fear
…the god those people were writing about was terrifying. In the Old Testament he is the god of wrath. And in the New Testament, as Albert Schweitzer among others has pointed out, he is about to end the world in Jesus life-time or shortly thereafter. He was dangerous and violent. Rock, fire, flood, hurricane and similar weapons he used on those he judged ill of. That’s what the ancients wrote, and I see no point in trying to water it down. That’s what they meant. They were really scared.” ‘
We are really scared too. The wraths of God we face are the same and every bit as real as the ancients imagined. And they are almost as remote today as they were in 1000 BC.
Ice ages, asteroid impacts, plagues, the sloshing of oceans from their basins across the continents. Nearby supernova flashes. Solar hiccups. Megafaunal monsters. And my favourite: the breaking of Gibraltar Rock and the subsequent great flooding of the Mediterranean basin. (That must have been a sight!) These are the great amnesias that Velikovsky is recalling.
To that we can now add one more: Climate Change.
Kevin Rudd is “talking about a problem that is so terrible that the most drastic measures to group discipline and/or self repression are justified. It is a powerful fear.”
The Australian way of life is truly threaten by Climate Change. Does anyone deny this?
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
—-Charles Mackay
Indeed Wes,
And fools go in crowds, for a fool will always find greater fools to admire him. Is that consensus?
I suppose my recent funny experience fits in quite well with this thread.
Yesterday i wandered into this yellow submarine bubble full of consensus loving, anti-life infected anthropocentrics that don’t know the difference between themselves and a snake nor a negative from a positive nor the thizzle from the sausage. i.e. DELTOID I was looking for their cheerleader, Timmyboy to explain his belief in consensus “science”.
His only response was to devowel most of my postings. Cripes this alarmist AGW is a particularly nasty mind virus but here within this religious AGW incubator you meet with the full underbelly of this psychiatric condition. I simply find this pathology profoundly disquieting.
Conclusion…… Consensus reduces science to theology. More accurately it creates top shelf insanity indicating a complete lack of imagination ……….. but certainly not a lack of insecurity nor a lack of self-interest. Honest science is all about discovery where we find that the greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.
slim: 8 months of depression is unlikely to be due to schizophrenia or bipolar schizo-affective disorder. Depressive (I think the shrink is right) illness can indeed be triggered or exacerbated by environmental/social conditions. As far as people with schizophrenia with climate change delusions are concerned – they’ve been around for years we had a couple on my ward they weren’t concerned about their own footprint just concerned about every one elses.
Did someone just attempt to quote Immanuel Velikovsky in a serious context? The man who attempted to demonstrate that the miracles of the bible were really natural events and that the ‘manna in the desert’ episode was caused by the passage of a meteor rich in hydrocarbons through the atmosphere?
Which somehow became carbohydrates as they fell. . .
Is this worse that the stuff young boomers and all of GenX had to go through: one flash and you’re ash, always being only seconds away from midnight, nuclear winter, neutron bombs, iron curtain, bamboo curtain, failsafe. Living in a state of fear.
I must be missing something here, but I fail to see what all the concern is.
In the same way that Islamist fundamentalists need new jihadists to go out and blow up infidels and non-believers, so the Church of Global Warming needs the next wave of damaged goods to draw on to go forth and do their missionary work amongst coming generations.
The delusional fanatics who rant at non-believers and abuse them as “Denialist Scum” — or worse still, Sceptics — need to come from somewhere. CSIRO & BoM can only provide a finite number, and apparently the religion is growing by the day.
So, lighten up guys. This is but the process of renewal at work here. Nothing to see – move along.
Julian – thanks for the PPV link.
Presumably you’ve coughed up the readies and read it, so maybe you can give us a summary of the findings. Like the proof of how global warming alarmism is triggering psychotic episodes in our young such that one might imagine that having a drink of water will kills millions of people, and the mechanism by which it is so doing? Or are you just shooting off at the mouth?
Savo: Living in a state of fear.
and then there was the “Ballot” for a 20th birthday present of an adventure holiday in Vietnam.
Your turn now!
Slim,
Thanks for trying to inject some decency and respect here, but when it’s posted by Paul who seems to like highlighting mental illness for his own agenda, you’ll just get his deluded followers bleating in unquestioning agreement. Now is that something psychiatrists should be concerned about?
> “A 17-year-old man was referred to the inpatient psychiatric unit at Royal Children’s Hospital Melbourne with an eight-month history of depressed mood . . . He also . . . had visions of apocalyptic events.”
The words ‘he also’, following the medical diagnois of depression, gives a bit of insight. ‘Catastrophising’ is often linked to severe depression and anxiety, and it can be about loved ones dying, losing employment, the threat of terrorism, or anything else the person finds highly disturbing. Picking up and running with this ‘story’ to make some sort of point is highly disturbing indeed.
Cheers Travis – there is intelligent life here after all!
If you’d bothered to follow the link – The title of the published paper referred to is:
“Water, water, everywhere, nor any drop to drink: climate change delusion”
slim; IMO, AGW alarmism is not so much triggering psychosis and neurosis but building on it; post-modernism has a lot to answer for as it is built on an ediface of right without responsibility or consequence; Foucalt’s Tabula rasa is one of its paradigms; in this individuals are defined by their post-birth context and have no genetic inclinations or capacity for an identity beyond that context; Foucalt should be made to sit down and watch “Forbidden Planet” a few times; in AGW maybe we are seeing an unholy alliance between a return to the womb-like focus on a mother figure, gaia, and hyper-subjectivity and infantilism as a response to and rejection of traditional codes with their implicit determinism and objectivity; certainly relativism in a multitude of forms is rampant.
There can be no question that this not a scientific dispute, nor a dispute which can be resolved by scientific means; the green movement’s heritage is anti-rational, misanthropic and tribalist;
http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/germany/sp001630/peter.html
There is an irony in this; the AGW movement, as the pinnacle of the green ideology (although I concede not all AGW supporters should this ideology), is basing its crusade on an assumption that humanity can effect and even dominate nature; and that this dominance is inherently evil or negative; the sceptics, at least to some extent, are saying that humanity cannot; we still lack the where-with-all to smite the cold goddess; at one level, therefore, the dispute is about a confirmation of humanity’s helplessness and the reaffirmation of that, and the necessity in reverting to a genuflecting life-style; this is a logic which denies the most essential part of what being human is; to achieve, strive and to overcome natural boundaries. I think it is odd that the islamist/West conflict has been described as a clash of modernity versus historical stasis; it would seem that the AGW dispute is based on a similar chasm. Anyway, congratulations to this blog for initiating a discussion about the psychology of this debate, since this is really the heart of the thing.
Keiran; they are vicious at Deltoid; being an old power-lifter I always get a chuckle at nerd-city hiding behind such a muscular site name.
“there is intelligent life here after all!”
After reading the rant over on your blog, I wonder how you would be qualified to make that assessment…?
Grendel
You spend too much time at Tim Lambert’s – Velikovsky never did what you allege – for heaven’s sake read the literature – all he did was wonder if another force was operating in the cosmos in addition to gravity.
Spece exploration has since verified that.
David Stove (Australian philosopher) wrote a perceptive article about him http://www.kronia.com/library/journals/scimafia.txt.
Please read it before making a rash judgegment.
If the previous link does not work use this one and scroll down to The Velikovsky Story:the cientfic Mafia.
http://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/davidstove.html
Wes
What Velikovsky was pointing was not so much the past but the future – that individuals who were traumitised while young, suppress those traumas but cannot completely submerge it and attempt to repeat those experience in order to understand it. Velikovsky extended that to the human race as a species – and that re-enactment of the past, without understanding it, was his concern.
So climate change is really the lastest of the renactment of impending catastrophe.
And it doesn’t happen, and the herd settles down until the next loopy comes along with the latest version of the re-enactment.
Cohenite, although I do not understand all that you say, what I do grasp is insightful. Keep it up.
Louis, Grendel, I am an old Velikovsky fan. I know it is mostly science fiction, but the epic geological scales, the vistas and the subtle insights are solemnly worth it. At least they were in the 1980’s.
I love Doris Lessing too. Her novel “The Making of the Representative of Planet 8” is a moving description of emotional life on a planet that is dying, from an ice age. The inhabitants of the planet eventually learn that they are doomed to perish. If only they had Garnaut and Rudd to save them!
Wes,
The space age has turned the fiction into scientific fact, and which Harry Hess also admitted in a letter to him.
Velikovsky’s inferences from the historical record was the catylist which spawned the Plasma Universe theories.
You might want to read this scientific paper by Peratt on Z pinch instabilities in aurora plasma and world wide petroglyphs – http://plasmascience.net/tpu/downloadsCosmo/PerattTPSv31-2003clr.pdf.
Slim,
Don’t be so reductive. A bit of common sense goes a long way. It’s pretty obvious if all the authority figures on TV and perhaps a few heroes, like Tim Flannery, are telling introspective, intelligent teenagers that the Great Barrier Reef, Kakadu and our rivers will all be dead before the child reaches mid-life there could be some emotional challenges for sensitive youth to manage.
No hyperlink ping-pong is required. That’s my merely my opinion. I would suggest to everyone to think for your self, then articulate those thoughts clearly.
Garnaut has gone much further than that. He’s promised our youth a future of poverty and no hope with econometric accuracy to 2100 AD. Obviously, most youth aren’t listening, but some percentage is. I remember the effect that the first Club of Rome Report had on me in the 1970’s. It wasn’t a good look.
Bob Brown, a bloke with youthful appeal, goes further still, “we’ve lost the Earth” he claimed the other day on air. And Bob’s promised our youth a Road Warrior’s future as the world is beset by “100’s of millions” scrambling masses clawing for existence in newly formed deserts. Our PM apes the party line (although it’s pretty obvious he’s completely clueless, i.e. “carbon pollution” ??) adding authority to the madness.
Garnaut, Brown, et al, have “promised” this bleak future, because a clever teenager will have worked out for him/herself the bloody in your face obvious econometric maths of the situation that some how seem to elude a few old timers here:
I.e. no matter what our tiny population does, China and India will eclipse our c-footprint every 6-months and then 5-months, then 4, and 3 for the next 50 years. The CO2 emissions of humanity cannot be mandated by our good parliament. Duh! Logical conclusion: We are doomed.
I had a teenager, age 16, perform this proof for me only hours ago. The dude knew his search engines.
Duh!!!!!
When politicians appeal to the lowest common fears of humanity it is called demagoguery. Look it up.
There is a price to pay for spreading fear in a population of 21 million. One price is an increase in psychiatric problems among the vulnerable.
Like, Duh!!!
Slim
why should I download the report – you are the one who claimed the kid was psychotic so its up to you to show us how you know that – simple really, if you make a claim back it up, that’s all I am saying. Further, if there is any other peer reviewed reseacrh from the journals of psychiatry that support your argument well then cite them – let’s see them.
Travis
same point – if you know whats in the report then let us know but don’t speculate you know the answer without reading it – if you are going to make a claim show us the evidence, I mean after all, thats the same level of due dilligence you put on anyone with a skeptical attitude about AGW.
An end to climate alarmism/propaganda from the media and governments/government agencies is long overdue.
This 17yr. olds problem is quite understandable.
I have come across several schoolchildren who have become extremely worried and in some cases quite depressed about “global warming”.
Of course this is what the modern day witchdoctors in the AGW industry are trying to do, to adults and children alike.
We were recently involve in an opportunity to organise a seminar at a local Central School where qualified speakers presented some factual climate information to school students, and their reaction was just wonderful, and so positive when presented with facts.
This is absolutely hilarious stuff. Hallucinating that 100 million people will die if you drink water is a psychotic condition, howsoever caused.
I make no claim. I do challenge Paul’s original and scientifically scurrilous suggestion that this unfortunate individual’s condition resulted from being ‘tipped over the edge by global warming fearmongers’ If this is indeed the conclusion of the journal article cited by Paul, then he can quote the relevant text here for all our benefit and save us coughing up the cash to read the article. Otherwise, this post remains a cynical exercise in cheap and glib point scoring with no bearing at all on evidential science.
Wes writes eloquently of the anxieties of earlier decades and suggests that climate change scaremongering is just the latest thing to be afraid of. Young people are concerned about climate change and are more environmentally literate than any earlier generation. They are also hopeful and optimistic that as a species we can change our behaviour to the point where we can coexist sustainably, comfortably and peacefully.
If there is anything depressing about climate change to young people it is the cynicism and defeatism exhibited in places such as this blog in defence of our unsustainable lifestyle – more frightening than any dire scenarios predicted by denialists to result from an emissions trading scheme and the development of carbon-neutral technologies.
There are limits to growth which we need to come to terms with. Not everyone wants to continue with business as usual, but let’s face it; this blog is very much aligned with forces with vested interests who want to continue with business as usual.
Unfortunately buggy whip makers did not invent the automobile. China and India will create huge demand for carbon-neutral technologies – if we’re smart, we’ll get on with it.
The world is changing fellas. Get over it.
Slim,
And no government edict decreed the invention of the automobile, or the discovery of petroleum, or any other discovery that has made living easier.
It is changing, as it always had, never to return to previous states, but whenever government intervenes in the economy, it makes a right royal mess.
It reminds me of Oliver Cromwell’s please to the cavaliers, “Please, I beg of you, consider even the possibility that thee might be wrong”, or to that effect.
We are not defeatest, because there is no problem except in the fantasies in your imagination.
And what an idiotic comment, “aligned with forces with vested interests who want to keep with business as usual” – the only force that is intent on business as usual are the NGO’s and other un-elected swill feeding off the taxpayers.
In any case there is another cycnical take on this AGW – how about finding new revenue sources to pay the burgeoning superannuation debts Western sovereign states have?
Where would the unfortunate patient get such ideas about climate change?
Why would psychiatrists write a paper entitled, “Water, water, everywhere, nor any drop to drink: climate change delusion?”
China and India’s growth relies on fossil fuels as there aren’t currently any ‘renewables’ that can replace fossil fuels – only nuclear gets close.
Well, once again, Paul is open to another threat of being reported by some global warming fanatic to StigmaWatch of SANE Australia. Why, the very idea of believing that global warming worship and mental illness are connected….
During the cold war wasn’t there some syndrome or other to do with nuclear war that afflicted a lot of people? Seems we can’t live without some threat or other terrorizing the life out of us.
Regards the exchanges here, as far as I can tell, Paul is merely echoing what was reported. There may be some substance to the claims, AGW does seem to be the latest fashion in fear mongering. But I question whether it is appropriate under the banner of politics and environment.
Is it true the majority of eastern scientists anticipate cooling and that they outnumber the western “consensus”? Just curious. The weather does seem to favoring the eastern opinion.
The full report (minus references) from the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry:-
Hospital, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia:
Clinicians caring for psychotic patients have long
noted that delusional systems are determined by ideas
and beliefs to which the individual has been exposed.
We describe a patient with ‘climate change delusion’,
a previously unreported phenomenon.
A 17-year-old man was referred to the inpatient
psychiatric unit at Royal Children’s Hospital Melbourne
with an 8 month history of depressed mood,
social withdrawal, school avoidance, social anxiety,
amotivation, poor concentration, anhedonia, feelings
of guilt and worthlessness, insomnia, suicidal ideation
and self-harm. He also described hearing his own
voice making derogatory and command statements,
and had visions of apocalyptic events.
Admission was precipitated by acute deterioration
in his condition consisting of increased emotional
distress and suicidal behaviour. Prior to admission he
was treated with fluoxetine (40 mg day1) and olanzapine
(5 mg day1).
The patient had also developed the belief that, due
to climate change, his own water consumption could
lead within days to the deaths of ‘millions of people’
through exhaustion of water supplies. He quoted
‘internet research’ to substantiate this. The patient
described that ‘I feel guilty about it’, had attempted
to stop drinking and had been checking for leaking
taps in his home to prevent the catastrophe. He was
unable to acknowledge that the belief was unreasonable
when challenged.
There was no history of substance abuse. Physical
examination was normal except for psychomotor
retardation and superficial forearm lacerations.
The final diagnosis was major depressive disorder
with psychotic features. He was treated with oral
fluoxetine (60 mg day1), clonazepam (1.5 mg day1)
and olanzapine (10 mg day1). After several days his
mood improved considerably and he denied persisting
delusional beliefs. The experience of hearing his
own voice persisted, but he no longer found it as
distressing.
There have been numerous reports of incorporation
of contemporary phenomena, such as the internet
[13], into delusional systems, but a search of Medline
and Psychlit did not identify reports of delusions
related to global warming.
Climate change has rapidly become a dominant
issue in Australian society. A 2007 poll found that
85% of Australians were ‘very’ or ‘fairly’ concerned
about climate change, significantly more than the
proportion concerned about terrorism [4].
This case provides another fascinating illustration
of the cultural and environmental specificity of
manifestations of psychosis.
So the ‘final diagnosis was major depressive disorder with psychotic features’. I point again to the words ‘he also’ in the text. I would note too that this is a correspondence piece from the journal.
Slim writes:
>This is a symptom of the boy’s psychosis. That would be like blaming the existence of Napoleon if a psychotic patient had the delusion that he was Napoleon.
Slim also writes:
>If there is anything depressing about climate change to young people it is the cynicism and defeatism exhibited in places such as this blog in defence of our unsustainable lifestyle – more frightening than any dire scenarios predicted by denialists to result from an emissions trading scheme and the development of carbon-neutral technologies.
Indeed.
This teenager is from Victoria, which like a lot of Australia has been experiencing drought and enduring water restrictions. The information campaign by the relevant state governmental water bodies has been comprehensive. Perhaps they are to blame, because goodness knows you guys need someone!
>if you are going to make a claim show us the evidence, I mean after all, thats the same level of due dilligence you put on anyone with a skeptical attitude about AGW.
Julian I trust you will be here ensuring that the likes of Schiller Thurkettle, Ian Mott and all the other denies/skeptics/anti-greenies, etc also keep the standards of ‘one of the very best environmental blogs on the planet’ nice and high by substantiating their claims. We wouldn’t want to appear hypocritical would we? Pfftt!
>Of course this is what the modern day witchdoctors in the AGW industry are trying to do, to adults and children alike.
Of course it is Sid.
>and their reaction was just wonderful, and so positive when presented with facts.
LOL! I love anecdotes that are conveniently thrown in by these guys but not good enough when return served. Facts, hmmm…
>We are not defeatest, because there is no problem except in the fantasies in your imagination.
LOL! Yes, what an idiotic comment!
>Why would psychiatrists write a paper entitled, “Water, water, everywhere, nor any drop to drink: climate change delusion?”
Well Paul, according to your supporters, they would come up with it to get funding because AGW is where the money is. Consistency, consistency, let’s be consistent with our conspiracy theories eh?
>China and India’s growth relies on fossil fuels as there aren’t currently any ‘renewables’ that can replace fossil fuels – only nuclear gets close.
And I would suggest that there are plenty of delusional responses to the threat of nuclear annihilation and mishap as well! Or are we in denial about that too?
>Well, once again, Paul is open to another threat of being reported by some global warming fanatic to StigmaWatch of SANE Australia.
And once again Woody demonstrates abortion can be useful.
>But I question whether it is appropriate under the banner of politics and environment.
Paul likes to have mental illness issues attached to climate change reports, regardless of their appropriateness.
I would suggest that laughter is the best medicine. Emos should come here and read the dosh you guys come up with. They’ll be hanging out at the mall and spending their pocket money on new supericial toys in no time.
Paul: “Why would psychiatrists write a paper entitled, “Water, water, everywhere, nor any drop to drink: climate change delusion?””
I’ll try to get hold of a copy at work and see what they actually say.
Isn’t that what Travis just posted, or is this another case of deniers being selective in their reading?
“The final diagnosis was major depressive disorder
with psychotic features. ”
So the boy was having a psychotic episode…
“This case provides another fascinating illustration
of the cultural and environmental specificity of
manifestations of psychosis.”
And the ‘climate change delusion’ was a manifestation of the psychosis with nary a mention of causality or suggestion of a mechanism by which the psychosis resulted from being ‘tipped over the edge by global warming fearmongers?’
See first comment. QED.
As we suspected – a total beatup and all the denialists here are full of shit. Thanks Travis !
Denialists rule #3 “Make shit up”. (Nexus6)
I propose naming this psychosis after Al Gore.
Travis – but you should have let them rant another day before clocking them under the ear. All great archive fodder.
Travis – have you got a link to the full report?
slim; you are disingenuous; you should play this game;
http://www.sustainableschools.nsw.edu.au/Default.aspx?tabid=198&&TID=42
As I said a sense of identity and meaning comes from the immediate social context; even mentally disturbed individuals reflect this in the detail of their psychosis; in previous periods it was little green men, flying saucers, big brother, nuclear destruction; today it is climate armaggedon; it is no surprise that psychotic paranoia reflects the AGW sponsored message of climate catastrophe because that is the current dominant threat to personal identity through the imminent destruction of the social context which is defining that identity; your arguments are totally hypocritical because they are denying the essence of the concept you support; namely climate induced destruction.
At least one part of your bloviations was honest;
“There are limits to growth which we need to come to terms with.”
Why? We exist in a universe awash with energy; the only limit is our imagination and our ingenuity; the AGW crowd pretend they are the innovators with their drivel about sustainable and green energy; these are ideological incantations; the truly new energy sources of nuclear, particularly thorium, and fusion are ignored. There is a mental stasis operating here; simply put, IMO, a great deal of the herd support for AGW is based on a fear of being left behind, misonewism, and a really nasty psychology, which seems to be saying, I’m not sure what’s going on, I can’t keep up, I’m not as important as I thought I was, so let’s have an issue which I can understand and which elevates my sense of worth; the baby-boomers’ lament; isn’t it strange that the leading exponents of AGW, Gore, Lovelock, Hansen are all in that age bracket; what a pity they all didn’t go out and buy harleys; have you got yours slim?
cohenite: …ah…riiiighhht? I’m glad you got that sorted.
TRavis,
Could your long post above be classified as ‘word-salad’? Hmmm … tried Finnegan’s Wake?
I was pleased to see Louis Hissink mention Dave Stove. Much neglected.
Louis – Velikovsky said exactly what I outlined in his work “World’s in Collision”, which I have in fact read, and am reasonable familiar with. My first exposure to Velikovsky was via science/science fiction author Isaac Asimov who demolished velikovsky’s theories.
Velikovsky’s theory was that the Planet Venus was a wandering comet that was captured by the gravity of the solar system – and its movement through the solar system caused a range of events, many of which were recorded in the bible and other ancient sources. These events included the earth’s rotation being stopped, and then restarted.
When challenged on the scientific merits of his position, Velikovsky defended it by claiming that opposing viewpoints were the result of ‘Racial Denial’ or denial of the racial memory of these past events, as described in the link provded much earlier in this comments thread – so to cite Velikovsky as an authority is fraught with peril as he is now distinguished by his extreme lack of authority on any of the subjects for which he developed radical theories.
All having been substantially and repeatedly disproved.
Of course his disciples love to claim otherwise, but then if you are prepared to take things on faith rather than fact then life can be a happy delusion in many respects.
That said – Velikovsky is a great writer and his books are interesting to read. So are Naomi Novik’s but I haven’t come to the belief that dragons fought in the Napoleonic wars as a result of reading them.
Luke – I suggest oral fluoxetine (60 mg day), clonazepam (1.5 mg day)and olanzapine (10 mg day). After several days your mood should improve considerably and persisting delusional beliefs will dissipate.
>Travis – but you should have let them rant another day before clocking them under the ear. All great archive fodder.
Sorry Luke, couldn’t be bothered enduring their bleating anymore. Trust me, another day and it wouldn’t have made them look any the less stupid.
Julian wrote:
>Travis – have you got a link to the full report?
After Travis wrote:
>The full report (minus references) from the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry
This is from the author’s link in Paul’s opening paragraph, and also from the link you supplied. If you want the references, let me know. It is one page of text. As I said, it is a correspondence piece. If you don’t believe me…
Here is some information for students on depression and anxiety which should be at a level most of you can understand. It mentions catastrophising:-
http://www.studentdepression.org/site/stress_anxiety_and_anger.php
‘Catastrophising is another extension of rule-bound thinking, when deviations from the rules or expectations are experienced as disasters. Thinking your life will be ruined because you fail one exam is an example of catastrophising. This habit is linked to perfectionism and other habits, like superstitious thinking, which are focused on trying to achieve an unrealistic level of control.’
Here is a raft of symptoms of depression:-
http://psychology.ie/nutrition.htm
Davey,
You fit right in here. A post about delusions prostituted by the use of a minority group.
Grendel,
your undestanding of what Velikovsky write is quite in error, suggesting you may not have read W in C at all. No where does he say the earth stopped rotating, but noted that in Joshua Ben Nun’s time that the midday Sun stopped in the heavens for a period of time, when Joshua banged his staff onto the ground.
If your had read W in C, you would then realise that Velikovsky then wrote, paraphrasing him, “no human being can do that , (make the sun stop) and he then wondered , if the story was true, what other force in the cosmos could do that”.
Therefore your memory of what you read in W in C seems a tad incomplete.
In any case basing your whole argument on Asimov’s book is not a useful line of reasoning.
to get to date on the Velikovsky saga study this contribution and then continue your comments.
http://www.mikamar.biz/velikovsky.htm
“Velikovsky is a great writer and his books are interesting to read. So are Naomi Novik’s but I haven’t come to the belief that dragons fought in the Napoleonic wars …”
I agree Grendel…..But what? No Dragons 😉 However, I think one must give Velikovsky some academic legitimacy for his forceful introduction of catastrophism to students who later went on to integrate more empirically sound versions of his aspirations into modern geology and evolutionary theory. Velikovsky can’t be ignored as an important figure in 20 th century science, if only because he was so influential.
Speaking of porkies… Luke’s multiple personalities have begun commenting to each other of late. Sad really and extremely Freudian that the slip comes on a thread dedicated to the psychiatric consequences of “climate change delusion.” We”ll know if Luke’s condition is worsening should his various identities begin to hurl insults at each other.
Slim also seems to be rather too angrily unhinged to qualify as a model of mental rectitude. His ad hominem assaults and onslaught of clichés are well taken, but do they really make his point or tender along Paul’s? Contrary to his intentions his frothing rambles seem to lend some small sheen to the “climate change delusion” diagnosis.
Slim along with Luke’s personal identity crisis, have ironically provided unsolicited real time examples of “climate change delusion” in action, albeit of a milder variety, right here in our humble thread.
Paul, perhaps your could forward this thread on to Joshua Wolf and Robert Salo of the Royal Children’s Hospital. I’m sure they’d be fascinated with the row their relatively innocuous observations have generated among the more vulnerable AGW supporters here.
Wes – you can’t defeat my original argument so you resort to supposition and insult. This story is busted. Get over it.
Soooooo when velikovsky said that the ‘midday sun stopped in the heavens’ and since the apparent movement of the sun is the result of the earth’s rotation, how was Velikovsky NOT suggesting that the earth stopped rotating.
My argument was not based on Asimov’s book (for shame, did you not read my post? This was merely my first exposure to Velikovsky.)
Velikovsky was one of the recommended readings in my degree as part of our critical thinking exercises. As such my understanding of Velikovsky is based on Velikovsky’s own work.
If you are a ‘Velikovskian’ then I seriously doubt that anything anyone demonstrates with regards to his scientific errors is likely to be acceptable to you.
To accept a psychoanalyst as an authority on physics (particularly in Velikovsky’s case) requires a suspension of belief beyond the credible.
LOL! Don’t you have an original thought Wes?! So according to you dingbats Luke is Mohammed Afridi and now Luke is who…me? But he can’t be, I’m Bernard J., no..I’m Roger Grace, no I’m Libby!!! You guys crack me up. Your childish tactics when backed into a corner always go to the pseudonyms, ‘multiple personalities’ and insults. I could question if you are Ivan/Louis/Davey/Jan etc, but I lump you all in together anyway!
>Paul, perhaps your could forward this thread on to Joshua Wolf and Robert Salo of the Royal Children’s Hospital. I’m sure they’d be fascinated with the row their relatively innocuous observations have generated among the more vulnerable AGW supporters here.
Oh pleeaassee send this ENTIRE thread to the authors! In fact the whole blog, archives and all!! RAOTFL!!
Wes, stick to verse on what wilderness is, as you seem to have had plenty of time out there. LOL!!
Slim,
Original argument?
You made the very first comment in this thread. Your very first sentence was a personal insult, not an argument.
You said, “this takes the cake and sets a new low for even your blog’s standards.”
That’s your introductory comment for this thread and our introduction to your integrity as a fair dinkum intellectual.
And now you’re so ornately hypocritical you can actually muster the temerity type the words:
“Wes – you can’t defeat my original argument so you resort to supposition and insult.”
Slim, you busted your argument on the very first sentence you typed, mate.
“So according to you dingbats Luke is Mohammed Afridi and now Luke is who…me? But he can’t be, I’m Bernard J., no..I’m Roger Grace, no I’m Libby!!! You guys crack me up. Your childish tactics when backed into a corner always go to the pseudonyms, ‘multiple personalities’ and insults. I could question if you are Ivan/Louis/Davey/Jan etc, but I lump you all in together anyway!”
Ouch. Luke, me thinks you just made another one of those Freudian slip things. That’s just a tad bit too detailed a protest, no? And from the wrong personality too. Ouch.
Don’t recall anyone suggesting anything more than you have a slight “personality identity crisis.” Yoo Hooo? Anyone at home in there, Luke?
Gigs up, chump.
You and Slim ought to get together and start a DIY blog. You could subtitle it “101 ways to bust your self.”
Whatever you do Luke, don’t chose a life of crime. You won’t make it half way through the first police interrogation.
Sorry Wes, missed your comments on Velikovsky earlier – I agree, you can’t dismiss him as a figure of note, particularly in his field, however, taking him seriously is another question.
He over-extended substantially, which sadly will always reflect of his more legitimate thinking.
Catastrophism is actually an excellent example – a valid theory, bourne out by some evidence, but while Velikovsky might have been right about short, sharp catastrophic events, he got carried away with some of the possible causes of those events, for example – the Planet Venus theory.
The fact that he was wrong on one point doesn’t necessarily make him wrong on all, but in the case of areas where he stepped outside his area of expertise his theories are unsupported be evidence.
Grendel
“Soooooo when velikovsky said that the ‘midday sun stopped in the heavens’ and since the apparent movement of the sun is the result of the earth’s rotation, how was Velikovsky NOT suggesting that the earth stopped rotating.”
Firstly because he never said the earth stop rotating. Secondly he did not say the midnight sun stopped in the heavens, he repeated an assertion made in the Book of Joshua, (if memory serves me correctly).
Secondly as the earth doesn’t stop spinning, it can, under a greater force, however realign itself or change its axis of spin and appears to have done so putting Joshua’s position temporarily at the axis of spin. Once the interfering force was removed, the earth returned back to its previous position, so one assumes.
(Remember that the earth is closer to an ideal sphere than a top class billiard ball).
If the only force you have at your disposal is gravity, this scenario is impossible as Velikovsky well knew and stated as such.
On the other hand if the observation was true, (and this aberration of the sun was noticed elsewhere on the earth) then what other force could conceivable re-orient the earth so it rotated in a different orientation than previously.
Velikovsky asked whether it was an electromagnetic force. Then no one knew because electricity was not in the arsenal of forces used by astronomers. He was vilified for questioning the dogma of Newtonian gravitation.
Now we know that Velikovsky’s suspicion that it was electromagnetic was correct – electrical forces as described by Peratt and others in the Physics of the Plasma universe can supply the forces to do this.
Electrical forces are 10 to the power 39 greater in magnitude than gravitational ones. And if the earth’s rotation itself is the result of the operation of a Faraday motor, itself an electromagnetic system, then the problem is resolved – the earth’s electromagnetically driven rotation was affected by a nearby electromagnetic force.
I am an empirical scientist where observations are primary, and if many ancient observations contradict an assumed physical law then it’s the theory behind the law which has to be re-evaluated, not by dismissing the primary observation as myth, no matter how garbled by retelling, as fictions requiring a suspension of belief.
In contrast are the deductionist, or Socratic thinkers, where persuasion by reasoned argument determines whether something is true or not.
The authority of a physicist is not the practice of science – there are no authorities in science, only religion and politics. Science operates under the assumption that there are no absolute laws in science, and expect that tomorrow someone might make a new discovery that upturns our previous “law”. So all scientific laws are provisional depending on the data at the time used to frame them.
Hence the disagreement – you and Wes are essentially practitioners of the Socratic or didactic method, I as an empiricist driven by the compulsion of experimental fact, you and Wes by the efficacy of reasoned argument, the Lyellian Paradigm.
slim; do you deny that AGW can give form to psychosis and paranoia?
Well Luke, there you go. You are so popular we all want to be you. Secretly I think Wes wishes he were you too. Ahhh! Poor Wes, he just has to make do with being a loser. LOL!
Louis, Grendel,
Mates, don’t be too literal in your interpretation of Velikovsky. He never meant for his texts to be strictly empirical because he was immersed in the classic and ancient traditions of deep cosmic metaphor and hieroglyphic thought… Kind of like a scientific version of Ezra Pound’s poetry. And thus he should be read. It’s an extremely literate way of total immersion cognition, which is unfortunately completely lost to our hyperlinked gen Q-lueless who rarely get past an abstract before posting a hollow gottcha.
Velikosky channeled the same multi-dimensional gnosis as the ancients. The Council of Nicaea never imagined some section of 16 th to 20 th century church apostasy would interpret the Nicene creed literally (in the modern sense.) The Olmecs in ancient Central America developed a religion based on opening one’s heart to the light of God. A thousand years later Aztecs were literally opening up chests and holding up hearts to the light of the sun god. Pathetic really. The subtleness and the mysteries eroded by the ages. Multiple dimensions collapse into a single linear narrative. Just like AGW theory.
OK, so I am pushing the metaphor. As the only blokes posting here who seem to have a clue who Velikosky is we should get together and have a few vodka toasts to the old man.
Louis should admit the old man was an eccentric nutter. Grendel already agrees Velikosky is an eccentric genius from which science gained whole new branches upon its mighty trunk, if indirectly so? Velikosky is many great and odd things. And I’ll agree you both are right. Cheers, mates.
Travis – I notice Wes has started saying “mate”. I knew the act wouldn’t last.
Eh Trav – did you cop this one “you and Wes are essentially practitioners of the Socratic or didactic method, I as an empiricist driven by the compulsion of experimental fact, you and Wes by the efficacy of reasoned argument, the Lyellian Paradigm”
gawd – do think they’re dating. I thought the didactic method was illegal in WA.
Made the point, and moves on.
Game, set and match as one might say.
Sorry Luke me ol’ mate, I’ve tended to skip over that club chair drawl. Too busy being numerous other posters here.
If Louis made a point, he must have taken it with him…
Travis – I think the amount of lather generated in this thread alone could solve peak oil. Must say I’ve rather enjoyed watching them all have a good froth. The stimulus keeps them out of the retirement homes or from annoying other inmates I guess. But it did get sickening when Louis and Wes starting doing the mutual admiration theme. Barf. You’d think Wes would have more class.
Incidentally which personality are you now as I’m confused. Davey sounds likes Wes to me.
Wonder if Mottsa has gone off to his hooch thicket again? One misses his sensitive approach.
“Grendel already agrees Velikosky is an eccentric genius from which science gained whole new branches upon its mighty trunk, if indirectly so?”
Eccentric? certainly. Genius, perhaps by some definitions, but I’d want to be careful with that one. Interesting – absolutely.
Whole new branches of science?
Not that you could name – twigs perhaps.
He certainly added colour.
The frothing here does tie on with your previous observation of an increasingly rabid blog.
Nah, you have it all wrong. Wes sounds like Davey. Davey started insulting and insinuating on another thread and Wes has copied it here. So you see, no original thoughts amongst any of them.
Which brings me to this thread – isn’t it odd how now the whole ‘paper’ has been reproduced here things have gone all silent from the other side? Water, delusions, everywhere, but not a ‘stop to think’.
If you ask me, you are all completely missing the point.
If anyone had been paying attention a couple of months ago there was a news item about Dr Grant Blashki of University of Melbourne, who had identified a new anxiety about climate change.
Amongst other things, he called for “the medical profession to treat climate change as a mental health issue” (no argument from me when you read some of the comments directly above this one!).
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/feeling-under-the-weather/2008/04/06/1207420202584.html
This latest issue is entirely predictable and routine: A researcher will identify a new ‘syndrome’, then a medico will treat a ‘sufferer’ soon after, and within a few weeks we will have a Medicare Item # and a Scheduled Fee.
Travis/Grendel,
When will you evolve from the caveman interpretation of “Googa speak” to answer empirical facts?
I’m sorry, but the way you’ve treated this story is pretty reprehensible. This person was not tipped over the edge by GW fearmongers, but suffers from a mental disorder which has latched onto a serious and significant global issue. Your rhetoric is transparent and does you no favours.
>When will you evolve from the caveman interpretation of “Googa speak” to answer empirical facts?
When you lead by example? What facts are you asking for Louis, or are you just having a froth because you haven’t posted anything since 11 July 07:25? Are you now going to ask Alex for the same? Let’s face it, there are a number of people here who can identify facts from a convenient beat up, and you are not one of them.
Travis
I havn’t posted anything because I have a day time job, and secondly tracking comments in this blog is a little difficult, necessitating scrolling to find out what particular post you are on about.
As for example, maybe you can come up with a specific instance of where I have not come up with an empirical fact. And I won’t hold my breath – I have been waiting over a year I think for Ender to provide evidence how phytoplankton and algae are converted to kerogen in oil shales and tar sands.
Travis – Louis has a point. He’s out there dawn till disk sinking wells for abiogenic petroleum. Given the stuff is everywhere we have to realise the man is busy. How many abiogenic wells have you got now Louis. Tell Travvy and put him in his place. How many hundred (just round the numbers up will do).
“because I have a day time job”
Louis – you probably need to be a little more specific about this. The spongers and oxygen thieves at the CSIRO/Ministry of Truth, BoM, etc – that spend their days dreaming this $hit up – would probably have you believe that they “work” too.
Ivan – you are right – so Luke is sort of right, I do get up at Dawn, but we stop at 4pm, since here in Halls Creek sunset is about 5pm at present. So its 6am to 4 pm, except right now when I can take weekends off. This is the last weekend off for a long time.
And what do I do? I’m the Senior Project geologist for the Koongie Park Base Metals Project – and once the diamond rig arrives shortly, it will be operating 24/24 on 2 shifts for abou 3 months.
Logging of drill core, logging of geotechnical information, establishing diamond cutting intervals, getting it all into digital form for 3D modelling using MapInfo and Encom Discover, or Interdex. And it’s 7 days a week until the job is finished. As the rig will produce 70 metres of cored rock per day, each and every day, we will be flat out trying to keep up with it.
The RC drilling program lasted almost 3 months and I and my 65 year old field assistant went 103 days without a break, but when you can’t get staff you got to do what you got to do.
Young geos only want to work 2 weeks, then have 1 week off – which means that you have to employ lots of them to be able to get the core logged on schedule. Since I need 2 geos per day every day, and it becomes ridiculous.
This is normal work for us in the exploration industry.
Incidentally has JOhn Quiggin found a new monicker for us yet? It is very politically incorrect calling us delusionists now.
“Incidentally has JOhn Quiggin found a new monicker for us yet?”
Don’t know, Louis – and I’d have to say, I don’t really care. He’s an economist, isn’t he? Has there ever been a worthwhile economist in the entire history of civilisation?
The two things I do know, with a reasonable degree of certainty, are this:
– When proponents of an argument have to resort to verbal abuse and mounting hysteria to try and carry their argument, not only have they lost – but they know they have lost. Their objective is solely to drown everyone else out.
– When proponents of an argument have to continually resort to justifying the underlying basis (e.g. “the science”) of their philosophy, they likewise know they have lost the argument. When was the last time you heard a worthwhile member of the community (like say a doctor, or a dentist – someone who is based in real science) continually bore you to death about how wonderful their “science” was.
The AGW hysterics on this blog know they are fighting a losing battle. In the meantime, just sit back and enjoy a few laughs.
Ivan
Exactly what I am doing – and Quiggin is a social democratic economist – in any case J.F. Beck keeps an eye on the Quiggins and Lamberts, so all one need do is to check his website rather than read their waffle.
Now, isn’t it about time for his lukiness to react again?
Speaking of worthless economists: Did you notice the body language of the Great Guano on TV the other night? When asked the direct question (and I paraphrase) – “Do you believe this AGW horse$hit?”, he dissembled:
“The scientists who make their living studying this tell us … blah …blah”
So this tells me that he knows it’s horse$hit – and he’s smart enough not to make an unequivocal statement of support. When it all turns pear-shaped, it won’t be the Great Guano who is responsible. “Oh, no! no! It was all those egghead scientists. They’re the ones you need to crucify.”
Typical bloody economist. Ask them what two plus two equals, and their response: “What would you like it to equal?”
No, one thing I don’t do is watch TV, so I missed it.
I got an email from Hans Labohm just now with a link to Christopher Booker’s latest column in the
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/07/10/do1004.xml
and Hans was lamenting that this type of criticism and analusis is absent in the Dutch media.
More to the point trying to figure out what the game is, I’ve started reading what W William Engdahl writes, order his book A century of War from AMazon.
His web page is http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html
Bit of an eye opener, to say the least. He is very emphatic on the abiogenic oil theory as well.
Not too sure about the Bilderberg Group interpretations, but well worth thinking about.
Poor old Louis having to do all this work for free. Lashed to the drilling rig.
“When proponents of an argument have to resort to verbal abuse and mounting hysteria to try and carry their argument,” – hey Ivanko-kook – have a listen to yourself – how’s the rabies meds going?
Medusa,
I don’t do this work for free at all – which particular instance of nonsense did one your personalities err to come up with that inanity?
Lashed to a drilling rig – goodness if this is a demonstration of your comprehension skills, little wonder you come up with this lolly-legged waffle about CO2 warming up terra-firma.
You really must take a holiday from Carbon Cuckoo land – find an active volcanoe and do some original anthropological work by testing how they used to sacrifice contrarians by chucking them into the into crater. On the way down you could have an intense debate among your many personalities as to whether it is hell you will arrive at, or heaven.
Travis
I believe you of course 🙂 Thanks for posting the full text. Without trying to start this whole thing again the original goading of slim was that he spouted off without quoting the actual text, he was guessing – now that you have shown us the text and it shows that the lad was indeed psychotic I think we can all agree with slim, but the point remains that he was not providing evidence. But it took you to provide the evidence, not slim. The point I was making is that Slim should have done what you took the time to do before spouting off, so thank you. By the way its the weekend and I have co2 to emit with my lawnmower but now its sunday night im checking bak on the blog 🙂
The onus should have been on Paul to supply the full information in the report rather than conclude the boy was tipped over the edge by global warming fear-mongers. Slim came to a logical conclusion based on what was available. It was a common sense approach based on what is known about depression and psychosis, but it has been interesting to observe that when the facts are on the table certain vociferous posters slink away.
Yeah, Louis Wu, certain vociferous posters have slinked away… like Mr. Logic Slim, back to watching their hand puppet shadow show on the cave wall. Others are having conversations with themselves. Not a good look.
No doubt that in a population of 21 million no one would be psychologically effected by constant media bombardment of prophecies of climate apocalypse. That’s just common sense.
whoo, hoo?
Obviously you have comprehension problems Wes George. That would be a start of a list. But if you want to keep deluding yourself, maybe you’ll get lucky and someone will write a paper about you.
I’m off to join Slim, whose company at least seems honest and sane, and I’ll leave you to hear the sound of your own voice. No, it’s not a good look.
Keep calling, but I doubt anyone will care.
Did Slim slink away? That’s news to me. The scurrilous premise of this post was exposed as cynical and unsubstantiated by the article informing it. Should I have read the original article before commenting? That’s a standard around here now? Paul’s premise was laughable. As a scientist it is up to him to provide evidence of his new theory, not the doubters, a notion I am sure you all appreciate.
I saw no need, nor had any desire to remain and exchange vexatious personal insults. It serves no purpose. Why have I come back?
I was hoping JM may have written something on the new report where “scientists say they’re seeing more signs of global warming on the frozen continent. New satellite photos show the Wilkins Ice Shelf is even closer to breaking from the peninsula. Experts say the effects of warming there now look irreversible.”
I guess it doesn’t fit in with the preferred narrative. And it’s not like a major ice shelf separating from the Antarctic continent in the middle of winter is a significant environmental event.