MY late father told me not to admit that I was an atheist … when I was preparing to appear on the ABC television program ‘Q&A’ back in October 2010.
It was likely that Tony Jones would ask me a question about Mary McKillop being made a saint, as this was a media headline back then.
Through history atheists have been vilified.
During the nineteenth century in Britain, for example, the poet Percy Bysshe Shelley was expelled from the University of Oxford for publishing a pamphlet explaining his atheism. At the time, those unwilling to swear Christian oaths during judicial proceedings were unable to give evidence in court.
Nowadays, atheism is tolerated in the West, but not in many Muslim countries where atheists are sentenced to death — presumably with the assumption he/she is going to hell. In these countries atheism is often confused with apostasy, which is defined as the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief or principle.
I’ve never actually embraced a religion — though I was raised in the Presbyterian tradition — so I’m not sure how I could renounce it.
The idea that someone like myself simply does not believe is very difficult for many/most people to accept. But it is a fact. I’ve always looked to nature, not the Bible, for answers to the big questions. So, I’m fascinated by natural landscapes, which I feel always provide me with some solace, as well as understanding.
The coastline where I live at Noosa, for example, has a history that dates back perhaps 145 million years. I’m referring to the dolorite intrusion to the north of Granite Bay. Tea Tree Bay, just to the north again, has interesting wave cut platforms of sandstone, with abrasions called potholes – by geologists. I’m keen for a knowledgable geologist to explain how old these formations in this level bedrock are likely to be (see the feature image for this blog post) and what they might tell us about sea level change.
It is a fact the etching in a shoreline hold history, and meaning, for some people – myself included.
This does not mean I am in any way intolerant of those who believe in the presence of a God. When Tony Jones did ask me about miracles back in 2010, I replied:
JENNIFER MAROHASY: Like the Prime Minister [who back then was Julia Gillard], I don’t believe in miracles but I do think that it is important that we have heroes and Mary McKillop is a hero for a lot of people, particularly within the Catholic faith and I’m very pleased that for those Australians their hero is being recognised and being recognised in the Vatican and I understand that Mary McKillop stood up against paedophilia within the church and I think it’s wonderful that the Catholic Church is not only recognising a woman but an Australian and somebody who has stood up to issues that didn’t necessarily make her popular back then.
So, while I’m an atheist I respect the beliefs held by others, including Christians and Muslims.
There is a media preoccupation at the moment in Australia with the footballer Israel Folau who was sacked from the Australian team for claiming that all homosexuals, and also atheists, are going to hell.
I understand that such a claim is likely to be more offensive to a homosexual who may also be a Christian, than to an atheist who does not believe in the concept of hell. Nevertheless, I suggest that homosexuals as well as atheists be tolerant of his perspective. In fact, I thank him for having the fortitude to be so upfront in what I perceive as his ignorance. Surely, it is better that the ignorant man tell us what he is thinking so that we can have some discussion about this, least he keep the untruth to himself and let it fester.
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The photograph is of me, and some potholes etched into Tea Tree Bay, Noosa National Park, and was taken with my new drone (Skido) in June 2019.
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
As I have mentioned before, what we know of our origins is, to be honest, that we know bugger all. I just read this morning that even the Bible has two different stories.
What I have posted elsewhere about the Folau hoo haa.
Just a thought , when I was a teenager (and already one of those
adulterers who Israel Falau WARNED ) , the Bretheren used to preach on the street corner, warning us that “The wages of sin is death, so you must one day repent, or go to Hell”
I survived that, by reasoning that if there was a loving God, we’d work it out on judgement day and I climbed back in the car and cuddled up to my girlfriend.
Now at a mature age and still an adulterer , Israel Falau has told me the same thing and guess what ?
I still say, ” she’s right Israel, I know you have MY future at heart, but don’t worry about me, Ive done a few good things and I’ll take my chances mate.”
So what is it about “gay” people, that they get all upset ? Out of all those mentioned ?
Are they actually not happy with life ?
I have been given the same heartfelt warning all my life by Christians concerned about my soul and I’ve never once asked for THEM to be punished’
I just thank them for caring and move on
Ian Plimer said that the whole east coast of Australia is been uplifted a metre or so in the last 5000 years. I think that would explain the stranded potholes. It would be interesting to know why the uplift has happened.
Also Jen, I can understand how you are informed by nature and landscape not needing a personal God. To some extent it also depends on who we leave behind and if they would feel disappointed by how we were interred.
Like Jennifer, I have no imaginary friend however I support Folau in making his post and in his right to his beliefs. I recognise that I was brought up in a Judaeo Christian society and my personal choice is to support many of the characteristics of that society. To quote the Christians, turn the other cheek, do unto others etc. I was brought up to respect others and treat every one with dignity.
I find it a shame that others in our current society cannot leave well enough alone, and in particular I find it disgusting that some people use their corporate position to try and enforce their personal beliefs on others. Particularly so when the post Folau made is from a book they don’t read because they don’t believe in the idol it is written about, or care about the sin they may have committed which may send them to a place they don’t think exists.
Nor do they get that the post was not specifically targeting them, but included drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolators. Thats a pretty long list, and would leave out very few people.
It certainly includes me, but do I care about that? No!
This is a well written piece Jen. Makes total sense. I’m not an atheist, I’m agnostic simply because I haven’t thought deeply about the issue. I don’t know if there is some supreme being/s. I figure if there is a power that great, what I do and whether O believe would be irrelevant.
I also can’t comprehend how it is possible the universe (even multi-verse), and everything in it, came from nothing. But I don’t lose any sleep over it.
I don’t care what beliefs people have as long as they don’t force them on others. Folau is not forcing people to follow his beliefs. And he’s not demanding the government do anything to accommodate his beliefs.
When we have public buildings and sporting grounds including prayer rooms for a miniscule number in the population who believe they are needed, or demanding kitchens in public institutions accommodate their religious based diets, or any other inconvenience or cost imposed on others because of their beliefs, that’s when I say NO.
On the matter of the existence of Hell, I believe most modern versions of Christianity, including the Roman Catholic church, define Hell more as a state of existence in the absence of God, rather than a place.
E.G. https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/signs-times/pope-francis-and-hell
James, The trouble is there is much forcing of views onto others. Atheists and homosexuals, and also Christians, once labelled as such, are potentially subject to a living hell in many parts of the world today and even within some communities and perhaps their own family here in Australia.
Homosexuals have been particularly persecuted, and young homosexuals are particularly vulnerable here in Australia.
” Conservative Christians may not be very good at describing the place they call hell but gays are already in it in Chechnya, most parts of the Middle East, and some countries in Africa, where homosexuals are imprisoned or sent to the firing squad.
Homosexuality is a capital offence in 12 countries and criminalised in 72. ISIS lynched gay men and threw them off high buildings; Boko Haram and militias in Yemen continue to target and murder gay men.
In Australia, we have the first world problem of having one in four youth suicides being an LGBTQI kid. And we have open season on LGBTQI people on social media as a result of the toxic Rugby Australia v Israel Folau debate: we’re “snowflakes” who demand “special treatment” to protect our “homosexual lifestyle” (whatever that is).
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/comment-the-unholy-folau-quagmire-and-the-living-hell-for-gay-people/ar-AADU3ei?ocid=spartandhp
Israel Folau was simply saying what the Bible says, when asked. What did people want him to say? Something different? It seems to be trendy to dismiss what the Bible says and put your own spin on it. Many explaining “nowadays God thinks this way or that” Usually by people who have no idea about God or have no relationship with him at all. Sort of like speaking for someone you do not know. If you are a Christian, it is not a state of mind or a way you act towards people, that may be the result but basically says you have taken Jesus to be your Lord and saviour and believe his word, the Bible. Don’t berate people who believe on the bible as they are the only true Christians. The Bible says not to be lukewarm or you will be spewed out. Rev 3.16 in other words you can’t be half for Christ and tickle people’s ears with what they want to hear.
Also, the best evidence is that global sea level has most likely fallen 2-3m since the Holocene high stand about 4000BC (Minoan warm period), but not in a straight line. The evidence is sea level was about 1m higher in the Roman warm period (year 0), and about 0.5m higher in the Medieval warm period (1000AD).
Conversely, it is believed the sea level was lower in the cold periods of 500AD (Dark Ages) and the Little Ice Age (1650AD), maybe both 0.2-0.5m below today’s level. This last low sea level is particularly important, because it from this base sea levels are still rising back to average Holocene levels.
The potholes themselves are formed by large boulders inside them acting as grinding balls in the surf.
So you can pick which segment of the rapidly changing, (geologically) recent sea level periods was responsible for their formation.
Interestingly, you can see clear evidence of recent higher sea levels all along the Australian east and south coast, particularly inland beach cliff and shoreline platform development. The 2-3m Minoan high stand seems to be the most significant event in Victoria, especially around the bays.
But Jennifer, most atheists do believe in miracles. Abiogenesis for example.
For once I’m in total lock step with you Jen. I just really would love to see your acceptance and tolerance adopted by the wider society. Instead what we are witnessing when religious institutions can legally fire gay teachers and expel gay students, is not ‘religious freedom’ but exclusive privilege. The hypocrisy is truly gob-smacking, and why my community is fighting back.
Great photo, Jennifer. Orthogonal joint sets well etched, with the potholes clearly defined. Even your Avengers shadow is useful as a scale !
DaveR above has some of the geology answered for you. I’m quite impressed that you asked the questions. Most people just tosspot off about “they’re only boring old rocks”.
My question: how was this photo achieved ? Drones at sunrise, perhaps ?
Hi Ianl,
The photograph was taken with my DJI Mavic 2 drone (names Skido), late in the day … approaching sunset.
It is one of my new hobbies … flying the drone, learning how to take pictures. I’m most interested in becoming proficient with the drone mapping software.
I can do you a map of this area, that provides me (theoretically you) with the capacity to measure depth and width of potholes and more … but I’m still learning how to export all my maps/share them/make the ‘insights’ accessible. I’ve also been mapping seagrass beds with skido.
Eventually, for example, I would like to be able to create a single aerial map of hundreds of hectares of coral, and also be able to zoom in at the level of the individual coral polp. What I’m currently puzzling over … and practicing creating using rocks and seagrass for the moment.
Cheers,
DaveR, IanL
So, I’m assuming that wave cut sandstone platform with the potholes is about 120,000 years old?
Your thoughts?
Cheers,
The trouble is, our modern atheism is going to deny us all anything but a muslim future and that hell is coming to a place near you:
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2019/07/islams-war-on-christianity-part-ii/
A very enjoyable post. Personally, I think that religions are simply systems of social control. However, maybe its my upbringing but I still find it difficult to accept that this intricate and amazing natural world is there entirely by chance.
As for Israel Falau, I find it strange that liberals, who would never admit to believing in Hell or any such thing, would get so uptight about the utterances of someone who does. Why couldn’t they just say, “Don’t talk nonsense,” instead of punishing him so severely?
I couldn’t help but chuckle when you said that atheists have bern villified throughout history. That may have bern true in some places at some times, and may be true now under muslim theocracies, but it pales in comparison to the persecution of Christians, real Bible-believing Christians, for two thousand years. It really does depend upon one’s perspective.
The point of Mr Folau’s message, taken from the Bible, is that everyone, me , you, your reading audience, everyone is under God’s wrath because of our sin. No one sin is worse than another. Focusing on homosexuality (or atheism) is just playing victim politics. Israel Folau’s message is one of love and redemption. That is the message of the Gospel.
As for geological history, us Bible-believers, and those of us who who dare to call ourselves Biblical Creationists, use the same geologic evidence as uniformitarians, but it is our initial presuppositions that lead to very different interpretations of that evidence.
We acknowledge that the Bible provides a reliable history of the origins of the universe, life and events on earth. The chronology of the Bible was superbly documented by Albert Ussher back in the 17th Century (even Stephen J. Gould acknowledged his scholarship).
In fact, to understand geological history (as well as why society is in the mess it is in), one needs only to read and accept the biblical record of history. Instead, our interpretations are ridiculed and mocked for simply being consistent in our view of biblical inerrancy, in the same way we read Scripture that relates to sin and redemption.
Why do you, and most of us find solace and inspiration in nature? Because nature declares the glory of God, and God has placed eternity in every heart. But nature cannot save us.
Jennifer, when you mentioned “the dolerite” are you referring to the quartz-diorite on the north part of Granite Bay’s main beach or some other intrusive dyke as there are a number of those around too particularly around Paradise cove.