“While some have likened global warming skeptics’ scientific research to Big Tobacco-funded research that supposedly showed smoking was not dangerous, I would say that the media’s refusal to report on skeptics’s peer-reviewed research is like the tobacco company executive’s suppression of evidence. Some may claim that the media’s silence is a way of trying to help people – that the tobacco executives were trying to save their own butts, so to speak. But this would mean that the media are putting themselves in the position of deciding what is good for people, rather than just keeping us informed.” Roy Spencer, The Great Global Warming Blunder, 2010, page 36 
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Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
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Jen
FYI
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/28/the-scientific-method-is-at-work-on-the-ushcn-temperature-data-set/#more-112127
The high moral ground should always begin at home:
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/06/25/epa-employees-warned-to-stop-defecating-in-the-hallways/
Another Ian
Looks like Steve Goddard was right about this all along. Watts had originally dismissed his claims but now admits SG was right all along.
If USHCN now admit it has a problem with its data, what will that mean for US temps?
DALB, will the BoM revisit its ACORN data in the light of Ken Stewart and Jen’s et al research?
Could be very interesting.
How Oz temperatures corrupted by Al Gor -ithms explained at http://tinyurl.com/lcgk68v
When the thermometers won’t go your way for 17 years you have to start defecating in hallways.
Steve smelt this ages ago [even as far away as Australia] but no one would believe him.
http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/screenhunter_18-nov-04-19-00.jpg
Healthy skepticism is the basis of good science, the other remains repeatable tests that invariably produce the same results.
The real deniers, are those who belong to the flat earth society!
Or white supremacists, and the one or two remaining male dominated cultures, where common belief, believes education is wasted on women?
These positions are only ever possible, where some of the evidence is ignored or simply cherry picked, to essentially underpin the conformation bias.
Is the earth warming, yes or no? Probably!
Is it just natural variation or the result of mans involvement. Either answer is actually possible, or some combination of both?
However, if some media owners positions are, that it simply isn’t happening, i.e., because they have significant holdings in fossil fuels, or coal fired power, or iron ore or coal deposits, significant coastal real estate etc, then they like the tobacco industry, will deny the research/evidence?
Or convince the trusting unwary, used as most of us are, to a media, that traditionally, exposes the actual truth, rather than revision, or ultra clever or confusing, contrary, black is white opinion!
At least until too much evidence refutes the media moguls power game position!?
Anybody who understands hydrology, and what can be achieved with sheer volume/weight of water, needs to be worried about a huge fresh water lake, recently discovered in Antarctica.
Measurements, suggest very strongly, that if this ocean sized body of water, were able to break through the very tenuous ice dam walls that currently separates it from the open sea, following huge ice breakaways; there’s enough volume of water in that storage, if liberated, to raise sea levels by around 3 metres?
Enough Sea Level rise, to inundate most f this nation’s coastal plains, where most of our capital cites are built, and which supports at least 70% of our total domestic economy!
I wouldn’t like to be the politician who simply sat on his/her hands/towed the party line, drank more tea, if we simply do nothing and the significant ice melt, wears away at the comparatively thin, remaining ice dam, holding this ginormous volume of water back.
Why is there a lake there instead of ice?
Well the only logical answer, has to be geothermal activity!
And this should make us doubly anxious, and looking at what we can and should do now!
For mine, it is to immediately stop all development on our coastal plains, and limit such as is still possible, to say, five metres above sea level.
The rest could be forests, open space, for recreation, entertainment, mobile homes,relocatable villages and the like!
And common open space, available to all, along our seaboard, would be no bad thing,
But particularly, if we could hide our highly mobile defense resources in it, as our first line of self defense, or indeed, any other worthwhile purpose, that doesn’t include, permanent human habitation/economic enterprise.
And forests, can and do recharge atmospheric moisture, that then takes such rain as does fall, further inland, where it is required!
Of course those, who just like the tobacco industry, have vested interests in say, large volume coastal real estate, land banks and what have you, will fight with every means at their disposal, for very different outcomes, including the tobacco industry response of huge disingenuous, mendacious obfuscation/blatant lies?
When, rather than if, this ice dam finally gives, it probably won’t be a progressive break, but most likely something like a 3 metre tsunami, that comes ashore, does huge damage and then remains there as a permanent feature.
And that could happen as soon as next summer, twenty summers from now, or most likely or hopefully, given the ice melt progression, before the turn of the century. I mean, we need time and preparation to adequately respond.
Some very valuable areas, could be protected, by five metre levies? We could call such development, New Holland?
Just looking at Antarctica, one sees a solid white expanse that is anything but a solid expanse, but slowing moving terrain, full of breaks, chasms and the occasional abyss!
We should trust it at our peril.
Those that can, would be well advised to look for a tree change!
And please don’t say you weren’t warned, or why didn’t anybody tell us.
And Australia, is not the only nation in the cross-hairs of this pending possible problem or time bomb, but every other nation on earth.
Alan B. Goulding.
Alan, do you have a link to confirm this impending doom or is this what you’re talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Vostok
Now..I’m not a scientist..as Neville or Sd. or even in her less polite moments (of which, thankfully are very rare!) , Debbie will affirm..But, I would like to humbly raise a discussion point…:
Taken that humanity is one of the last ( in the evolutionary time scale) on the list of evolved species…and taken that it must be accepted that certain “in-situ” certainties must be present for ANY species to evolve and grow or improve…and taken that therefore that “matrix” of in-situ certainties from the microbiotic to the macro specific flora and fauna were present that allowed humanity to not only evolve from it’s crudest form, but to it’s present day dominance of the earth and it’s environs….surely, it has to be acknowledged that the now slowly (or speedily!) whittling away of those same matrix of species and microbiology with the increasing re-aligning of chemical and atmospheric imbalance, will lead to the decline of humanity?
For surely, just as humanity depended on that existing “balance” of the matrix of evolutionary certainty, the removal of that certainty will, vis-a-vis, signal the possible removal of our species.
Just as certain flora are dependant on certain birds to consume and excrete the seeds as a proviso for germination…we humans are reliant on those unknowns that pass through our “systems” both bodily and agriculturally to sustain life as we know it…..but then again..as i said ; I am no scientist…but we do have a “in-house” biologist who could inform us more accurately…how about it Jen’ ?
Jaycee, ask the Greens about those “unknowns” that they wish to pass through our system [maybe they think we are Mistletoe Birds] to guarantee our survival.
The entitlement mentality is another sure terminator.
You’re a bit of a tricksey character, aren’t you Spangly…I like the way you segue from one subject to your fav’…: canning the opp’ !….but is it legitimate? I ask.
And the endless, mindless Greens and Labor boat arrivals is another.
Not rocket [or any other] science.
“Sustainability” is another completely unsustainable practice that won’t sustain life as we do or should know it :
http://heartland.org/policy-documents/three-faces-sustainability
Palmer and Gore on a nice little earner.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_gore_and_clives_nice_little_earner/
More porkies from big HIPPO Gore.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/al-gores-truth-is-blowing-in-the-wind/story-fni0ffxg-1226971186347?nk=93071d5000487690513e45a66260a661
And still a chance of cutting back the clueless RET nonsense.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/can_palmer_honor_his_promise_to_gore/
Isn’t this beautiful.
1936 is BAAAAACK!!!!
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/29/noaas-temperature-control-knob-for-the-past-the-present-and-maybe-the-future-july-1936-now-hottest-month-again/
Full credit to Steve Goddard for his one-man perseverance.
Sock-it-to-’em, Jen.
” Sock-it-to-’em, Jen.”
Yeah…sock it to them….now why does that glib comment suddenly conjure up the memory of that old classic ; “La Strada”….where the young heroine plays the role of “straight man” to the strong-man (Anthony Quinn)……yeah….sock it to ’em, Jen’….that’ll learn ’em !
The only thing we really have proved, beyond any doubt, is that we actually know ‘piss all, about piss all.
This morning, even the most brilliant mathematical proof ever, may be wrong about the speed of light. Why ? Someone, with an open mind and no axe to grind, noticed something different.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2672092/Was-Einstein-wrong-Controversial-theory-suggests-speed-light-SLOWER-thought.html
jaycee,
Unfortunately for those who like things nice and neat, evolution remains only a theory, (albeit , of almost religious proportions), especially the evolution of man.
Lots of such theories exist, some PC, some not.
The only people who get their tits in a tangle about which theory matters, are the religious zealots, including Mr Dawkins, who has gone to extraordinary lengths to kill off any criticism.
When ,as often happens, someone finds something out of place , it receives explanations reserved for fairy stories.
An alloy gear , in a lump of coal, doesn’t mean intelligent beings could have hung out on Earth, off and on, for immeasurable amounts of time. ( In theory)
It means “ALIENS” were here millions of years ago.
Any other explanation would get laughed at, all the way from 7.30 to Lateline.
” The science is settled “
Jaycee,
You seem to be fixated on the notion that there is such a thing as a delicate balance in nature and that there is a utopian timeframe in nature. . .both being irreparably destroyed by humanity?
I don’t think that there is any doubt that if there was no such species as homo- sapiens the globe would have evolved differently. . . but that would be the case if there was no such thing as birds or ants or any number of other highly successful and adaptable species on the planet.
I don’t think you give nature or humanity enough credit nor do you seem to understand that both evolve and adapt and that change is a very important part of that.
All you seem to be arguing is that humans are too successful and they have to be stopped.
The common name for that particular mindset is ‘misanthropy’.
Along with SD I note that misanthropy does appear to have embedded itself in the political environmentalist movement which sees it arguing that anything associated with human adaptability and/or human ingenuity is BAAAaaaaaaad!
But. . .Once again. . .that does NOT automatically mean that everything that humans do is good. . .or that everything is perfect.
Jen,
Chiefio has another interesting muse at
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/certified-pool-boys-and-higher-education/#comments
Jaycee just doesn’t get that with the might of the 97% including most G20 govts, the IPCC and the millions of jaycees in this world, a lone bike-riding guy suddenly shows these gatekeepers up for the bunch of charlatans they are.
And what a bunch of mugs their supporters are.
Our Jen has also been pointing this out to them for ever.
” I don’t think you give nature or humanity enough credit nor do you seem to understand that both evolve and adapt and that change is a very important part of that.
All you seem to be arguing is that humans are too successful and they have to be stopped.”
Geeezus H. Keerist!…Deb’….Have you ever got the wrong end of the stick!!….what I would like is for humans to be able to keep on evolving alongside our environment….it’s not misantropy, it’s called survival in a civilised manner!
It’s not the ones who go into a situation with both eyes open that get whacked…it’s those who rush in “where angels fear to tread”….”slowly, softly..catchee monkey”.
I don’t think I have Jaycee. . .but I’m not particularly concerned by your summation.
You have made a generalised , philosophical comment with a touch of colloquialism which could be applied to any end of any stick .
🙂
The story about the Antarctica fresh water lake was aired quite recently, on an ABC doco, Neville.
Suggest anyone wanting to challenge their evidence, simply searches, ABC .net, au, for more info.
I for my part, take Aunty’s stuff as virtual gospel?
They have sites that welcome input!
I think they hang on to their stuff for at least a month, and can quote all their sources?
I can understand billionaire Clive wanting an ETS, even though European experience thoroughly discredits it; given the 140 billions PA, waiting in the wings for carbon brokers/paper shufflers.
Smarter folks would have kept and increased the carbon tax, always providing there was a cap, and around current emission!
Making our carbon tax, a virtual Clayton’s tax! You know, the tax you’re having, when you’re not having a tax!
However, as the cap was very progressively lowered, only those who refused to adapt or change, would ever need to pay as much as a single centavo!
I’m always surprised by the number of people who somehow, fatuously, believe they need brokers/profit demanding middle men, to by or sell anything, or select the least costly/most efficient service!
What do they think the net does?
The reason we humans are the most successful species, is because we are the most adaptable.
However, J.C. Does have a point, when we as a species first crawled out of the primordial slime or from wherever we came from, due to the preponderance of trees and what have you, cleaning up and removing Co2 from the atmosphere. oxygen as a percentage of the atmosphere was, according to the archaeological record, around 51%?
Even today, some countries prefer to disinfect their drinking water with pure oxygen, as apposed to the chlorine we seem to prefer. Water that is super saturated with oxygen, turns milky white.
Oxygen and ultraviolet possibly do a better job at removing pathogens, without also destroying the friendly ones?
The water also seems much softer, much sweeter, like the old lemonade springs? Or could that have been naturally occurring traces of strychnine?
If we humans fail as a species, it will be through plague and pestilence, and super bugs, only able to be controlled by an oxygen rich environment and adequate exposure to ultraviolet; and or climate change, that makes it impossible to simply grow food. [Many skin ailments can be treated by a 30 second wash with liquid nitrogen. Long enough to kill most bugs and say a single layer of skin, without also killing or actually harming the patient?]
The herbivores would fail first, followed by the omnivores, and then the carnivores.
The paleontological record tells us, that at some time in the past, around 90 million years ago and due, some rationalize, to extreme volcanic activity, the world Co2 levels rose, causing climate change and a 2C rise in ambient temperatures?
This caused the frozen methane trapped in the tundra and elsewhere to melt, raising ambient temperatures, by a further 3C or 5C in total?
Enough to all but destroy all life, and turn the green food-bowl of England, into a windswept, salt laden wasteland, regularly exposed to winds exceeding 300 kilometres an hour, and a place and circumstance, that simply did not allow plant life to reestablish?
Conditions in the tropics were far worse?
Meaning, virtually life as we know it, failed to thrive.
The palentological record for that period, and for at least a hundred after the volcanoes finally settled down, is a mother Hubbard cupboard.
Where only a few shellfish and fish species seemed to have survived; and through them, repopulated planet earth?
We shouldn’t have to tell Dr’s to wash their hands between patients!
I mean, they’re not infants, needing to be reminded to wash their hands at least four times a day, and before meals, If only to avoid those nasty dehydrating tummy bugs, that can and do still kill small children!
We’ve apparently gone too far, with the sun block stuff and may be seriously limiting the vitamin D intake our bodies still need, to prevent premature age related fractures; and fight off all manner of infection, and real nasties like MSM, which seems more prevalent in colder climes, where less of the body is exposed to full sunlight, for far less time?
At least ten minutes full exposure at midday, I’m informed, is now the latest thoughts from some senior, scientists.
As for how I know these things, I’ve made it a lifelong practice to keep my eyes, ears and mind wide open.
I was also blessed by nature, with a very retentive, and reliable memory, that simply works like a sponge, when it comes to halfway interesting info.
Alan B.
Look at the present world situation and ask yourself how we could be retreating from use and modernisation of our greatest resource (even as we sell as much of it as possible) and moving toward oil dependence.
Excluding the few (bizarrely considered educated) who don’t see the interested role of Big Oil/Gas in the shift to “renewables” and “transitionals”, what is the rest of Australia thinking? We have minerals and coal but have to close smelters. We have potential to be a food basket but can’t afford refrigerant gases and electricity to process food.
We waste billions on toy tech (made o/s with our coal) while our own coal power generation ages. Meanwhile, a brawl between tribes in Nigeria or religious factions in Iraq can send shocks through our economy.
We don’t exist in a model or a simulation and we can’t make decisions just by gawking at statistics and indices and “findings”. We live in an actual world where you need to use your actual loaf. Numbers are handy, valuable even, but rather stupid on their own. I’m really supposed to care if some cloud or clear skies or other influence, probably unknowable, made temps go up or down a bit over certain decades? Temps can only go two ways, last time I counted, so it’s a good bet they’re doing one or the other.
Happy to ignore China’s ambition for south seas resources? Middle East? Nigeria? Gazprom and the gas spats? Got plans for a low carbon war with Asia to stop them producing all the stuff you want with all that coal you have to sell them?
Alan, aunty is much more likely to give you garbage than gospel.
Remember “100 metres” Robyn Williams? Their science expert?
Record sea and land ice in the Antarctic debunks that ice sheet collapse. It’s been around for 15 years at least and gets trotted out regularly for a run but nobody believes it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2014/05/16/record-polar-ice-extent-debunks-antarctic-global-warming-scare/
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.antarctic.png
Robert, good to hear from you. I was getting worried about you.
sd, I’m still about.
Hey, that collapsing ice sheet schtick is becoming the fashionable panic for alarmists with no more bedsheets to wet. It’s the modern equivalent to Crown of Thorns in the 1960s, a reliable apocalypse to roll out on a quiet news day, especially good for Sundays.
Maybe we could send a renowned adventurer/scientist/biochar salesman down there to investigate…and totally leave him to it this time.
Robert, it’s certainly getting easier to be sceptical ☺.
Not that it was ever hard but we used to be inclined to be more sceptical of ourselves too.
Now we just let the gatekeepers self immolate:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/30/ipcc-method-of-proving-the-human-caused-warming-agw-hypothesis-forced-deliberate-creation-of-misinformation/#more-112239
Hi Jen
Just saw your presentation to the Sydney Institute on APAC. Good job. I never realised how hot you are. Your website photo doesn’t do you justice.
Now, now..Stephen!..we’re talking “science” on this site!
” Robert, it’s certainly getting easier to be sceptical ☺.”
Spangled!!…who’d a thunk it that you actually worked hard at the attempt!
Jen
FYI
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/6/29/renewables-just-arent-worth-it-josh-281.html#comments
Thx Another Ian, I found this site when viewing the comments. One to remember, if it stays “open”! http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
currently as we speak 0.33% of UK energy is being provided by wind farms, despite them being the heaviest investors in Europe, and apparently generating up to one third of Europes wind energy…..in other words a huge amount of money spent on helping people feel better about the energy they use.
The UK apparently has at least 5.5GW of wind towers….which are currently generating 0.12GW of power……..about 2% of what it “should be!”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/9801302/How-Britain-went-tilting-at-windmills.html
and it plans to (or is by 2020) spend another 75b for up to 25GW of power
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/jan/08/uk-offshore-windfarms-100bn
How stupid are humans!? imagine what real good could be done with this kind of money!!! the environmental movement and big business and government really do have a lot to answer for in a capitalist world. Its hard to stay polite really is it not!?
Toby
FYI
”
“A few years ago the renewable sector was the job miracle in Germany; now nothing is left of all of that.”
”
More at
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/we-dont-need-no-426.html#comments
Jaycee, is that a certain scepticism I detect?
Stick around, you’re getting the idea.
Alan; given your lengthy and well thought out posts, I offer this theme. As a former cellulose process control minder and tech research aid, our eucalyptus hardwoods have long been an interest as a resource for many things including fuels for home heating. We looked at wet combustion, originally known as “Zimpro” back in the 1960’s, firstly as a chemical recovery in the wood pulping process, then as potential co-generation of plant electricity.
Although spontaneous organic liquid combustion is achievable, the start-up costs for up scaled plant were enormous due to its extreme physical environment and I have to say running any such reactor stretches our imagination. It was engineering at our limits then. Needless to say I am quite sceptical about Australia’s adaption to nuclear fuels in the short term after that experience and follow up round the Petro-Chemical industry where I was kept busy by one unreported fire every week or so. Regardless, there is yet much to be revealed from further research and subsequent development, cellulose = durable plastics and so on.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/by-gum-genetic-secrets-of-eucalyptus-tree-revealed-20140613-zs6c2.html?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=outbrainamplify
Recent cellulose article here
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v510/n7505/full/nature13308.html
So, gav, much better to research and develop the Drax solution than the thorium one, eh?
Of course, solar PV c/w $25,000 worth of batteries in the spare bedroom works too.
Plus a stand-by F/F generator.
Spangled, et all…there’s a certain “desperate look” in the eyes and the sentances of these skeptics as they search high and low for that “Philosopher’s Stone” of denial certainty…….even in the pic above of the good prof’, you can see inj his eyes, that sort of “desperate hunger” in the search for verification of their theory….you know ; too quick to talk, to explain a complex diatribe..to want you “on-side”..
Of course…you are all doomed to failure…..unless….unless you can give us here the name of ..not two!..just ONE society / civilisation that has been able to maintain continual industrial growth without destroying it’s rescource and finally it’s social base and avoid inevitable environmental collapse because of bad environmental management……..and don’t say ; “Easter Island”!
We don’t claim our solution is perfect, jaycee, just a lot better than yours.
Your problem is you ain’t volunteering to do what you think is the solution.
Our first real frost this morning but the problem is with all this CO2 the grass still needs mowing and the RH from all the extra vegetation is turning the place into a hard-working paradise.
What Gaia giveth she also taketh away.
The thing about coal is that your are already doing it and you will keep on doing it, in order, among other things, to fund, manufacture, supplement and ultimately dismantle all the white elephants. (Coal has boomed globally in recent years, for those who have not noticed. The rest is show biz. How do you think all those solar panels and whirlygigs got manufactured? With solar panels and whirlygigs?)
The problem is that we will go on doing coal in Oz, but we will be doing it badly, wastefully. Meanwhile, white elephants are already soaking up the funds and resources which should be devoted to the genuine alternatives which can make our energy supply even richer and more diverse.
Use loaf. And have a look at that obscure place called the world, where people are doing the most extravagant things to obtain, manipulate and profit from oil and gas. Grow up, warmies.
Because there is less coal fired power being consumed in sunshine hours compared with PV, there is this ever increasing peak demand of coal fired power required from 5 pm which the CFPS has to be in standby mode in order to meet.
Today our electricity bills go up in order to meet this expense.
Now, about those $25,000 batteries in the spare bedroom….
sd, mowing? Why don’t you just have a slasher come round once a year in winter before the westerlies? That way you have more time for doing nothing. Trust me on this.
As someone with a background in science, [chemical engineering, and mineral analysis,] I’m in favor of thorium reactors, as a cheaper than coal source of power. True, we can build wood fired steam engines to generate power, and we have some expertise there, so also my bullock wagon driving, great great grandfather.
If we have any difficulty building thorium reactors, for lack of local expertise, then we should import them from china, who reportedly, are building one a week. Or alternatively, a few of the engineers who are building them; and or, maybe from different countries, so they can share and compare knowledge?
We have enough thorium to power the world for 700 years?
We could also create some usable gas, by creating bio-char.
Bio-char is carbon, and burying it in the soil improves fertility, while sequestering some carbon, and as history and diggings will show, for thousands of years.
And we don’t need to fell tall trees, when we can use all manner of organic waste, including crop stubble.
The Mayan culture is an interesting one as well JC.
They grew all manner of crops, and as they grew, cleared more and more of their land, until the reliable rain forest rains stopped, and crop after crop failed, regardless of the human sacrifices, to appease the rain god?.
Forcing them to move to places not yet as completely denuded?
Ethiopia, is a modern example of the same thing, with hand to mouth subsistence survival as virtually their only survival mechanism.
The northern mountains were once verdant forest, and the rains ultra reliable. Until they cut down too many trees for firewood, or maybe wood fired steam engines?
Anyhow, as history repeating itself, when the trees went, so also did the life preserving rains, and famine chased famine, and one bandaid solution after another.
Some parts of Africa are being reforested, like in Kenya, where plantation timber is required to power the steam engines, that power the coffee mills. And the life preserving rains have, it would seem thus far, returned with the trees.
[ Aunty may lie as claimed by some posters, but the camera hardly ever does!]
Foreign oil just got too expensive, for the poor Kenyans.
They have discovered a thing called sustainability, where you plant at least a twice as much as you cut down.
The principle/favored management system of NZ forests, at least until feral deer, all but destroyed that management rationale.
People critique thorium, because all the many successful prototypes have been and are small, maxing out at around 50 MW?
Meaning, they really don’t have a place in the national grid, you know, that big white elephant, that makes our power bills, at least twice as expensive as local power.
Some poverty struck nations, are utilizing biogas, to heat their homes, power cottage industries etc.
The energy coefficient, at around 40%, is at least twice as good as reticulated coal fired power, and a good deal less expensive, and more sustainable.
However, replacing the noisy rattling biogas powered diesel, with super silent Aussie invented, solid state ceramic fuel cells and scrubbed gas, means no moving parts to wear out, and given no moving parts, just silence or a barely audible hum, and from a system that has an energy coefficient of 80%, the best thus far in the world.
And produces endless free hot water, and mostly water vapor as the exhaust product, even where natural gas is used!
Sadly, like all our best ideas, it had to go offshore, thanks largely to entirely indifferent, parliaments!
Did you know the collective noun for a group of baboons is a Parliament!
Too many endlessly squabbling alpha males, trying to cling to, or acquire/take over power perhaps?
Then we wonder, why we are still using coal to generate steam, as indeed, my great great grandfather did, when he modernized and replaced the bullocks with a never sleeps traction engine!
We really have come a very long way since the dawn of the industrial age, haven’t we?
I can remember, when we added super heated steam to the firebox, to improve the burn, always providing, you didn’t mind the machine gun pistol shot noises emanating from the firebox, as automatically decomposing super heated steam burnt and became super heated steam for a few more nanoseconds, only to burn again and again, before finally exiting as steam in the smoke stack..
I don’ think we do that here, given the sheer volume of coal and the mechanical means used to blow it as explosive coal dust, into stationary fireboxes!
I would line the long smoke stacks with a metal pipe spirals, that used exhaust heat, to preheat water before it was introduced to the fireboxes in yet more pipe spirals, that created super heated steam, released into fire boxes, particularly, when the steam is being produced night and day.
I mean, when H2o spontaneously separates as it does, when extremely hot; hydrogen burns and oxygen assists that burn!
Why burn coal when you can burn water, but only as small continually added fractions.
One can always have too much of a good thing. Boom boom.
Alan B.
Robert, I’m trying to wean myself from mowing/slashing but my cheese and kisses always wants the place to look “tidy”. I’m gradually getting her round to my way of thinking ☺.
Did I tell you I was up your way around the head waters of the Mighty Macleay recently and found a family of seldom seen spotted quail thrushes. Gara River area. Oxley wild river country. Fabulous.
Alan, it comes in handy for drag racing, too, or even just improving fuel consumption:
http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
Imagine the benefits if Peter Beatty had grown clever and run our Tugun desal plant [which costs the taxpayer a million dollars a day doing nothing and which I can hear rusting away from my place {and that’s before I put my hearing aid in}] on thorium and generated power awa fresh water out of the ocean.
SD, If you’re referring to more clever Aussie innovation, that uses, the alternator, when the fully charged battery, automatically, redirects the charge to an electrolysis module, that then decomposes water, that is then added, to either end on the inlet manifold, as separated H at one end and O at the other end, for safety reasons, to increase both power and economy.
Ideally, this explosive mix, should only ever recombine, inside the cylinder!
This additional costless fuel can be virtually doubled, for the same power input, just by adding some cobalt chloride to the module.?
Half a teaspoon, might be more than enough?
Topping up with only desal, would allow This catalyst to last much longer, and or operate more efficiently for longer?
If you’ve got some good engineering skills, you can replace the power consuming water pumps, radiator and what have you, with an injector, that pumps vaporized water, into each cylinder, with every sixth power stroke.
You’d need a reconfigured head, that maybe relied on oil , rather than continually circulating water.
I mean, the oil pump already pumps the oil up, to the valve mechanism, it shouldn’t be too hard to make it flow through a reconfigured head first?
Jet engine grade stainless steel, would be my first choice!
Only experimentation can tell you the optimum amount of water, a few drops, and when to inject it, so it doesn’t blow up the engine, given water doesn’t compress as water!
This modification allows more of the available power, [up to 15%,] to drive the wheels, and as the cooling vaporized water vapor heats, the steam created, can actually assist the developing power stroke as well?
The desal plant, would work far more efficiently, and at less cost, if an external vacuum, replaced the huge internal pressure?
And surely there is a market for pure fluoride free, bottled water, or even re-mineralized water? It could be made to earn its keep, and or cost!
There’s some evidence that magnesium bicarbonate, a water soluble mineral, in trace amounts, increases healthy longevity?
A scientifically literate pollie spangled?
Now that would be a famous first. I mean. it’d make a nice change, just to find one, who had some practical economic expertise, coupled to some real world business acumen.
That’s not going to happen anytime soon, just as long as political proponents, come straight from uni, or the unions’ execs ranks, and proceed, to operate as if the political contest and winning power for its own sake, was all that really mattered?
And then we wonder why we are in such a pickle, or so glacial slow, to adapt, or embrace really clever reform!
Alan B.
@AB
Alan that ‘inventor’ needs to look up economy.
First, the load on the alternator determines the magnetic excitation inside the alternator.
Low or no load and the alternator is spun easily but the engine.
High load, more power taken from the engine, which is the ultimate power source in this case.
Even if there were no losses during this ‘conversion’ of water to fuel, you’d still be talking about a self powering engine a Perpetum Mobile! Not possible.
Here’s something our ABC didn’t tell us about.
According to the Space and Science Research Corporation:
Current Climate Status
The Earth is presently in a strong and sustained phase of Global Cooling;
http://www.spaceandscience.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/ssrcgcsr22014summaryclimateassessmentreport.pdf
Allan B
Re this amazing Australian invention
You’re in the initial shareholders then?
What is it about the ABC and the BBC that they simply don’t welcome honest debate like this:
“The BBC has ruled that a radio debate about climate change involving former Chancellor of the Exchequer Lord Lawson should have been censored. Fraser Steel, head of the BBC complaints unit, said a Radio 4 Today programme about the causes of last winter’s storms should never have been broadcast.”
http://www.thegwpf.org/hoskins-vs-lawson-the-climate-debate-the-bbc-wants-to-censor/
They are in absolute denial that science just doesn’t know the true picture yet they are quite willing to fiddle data and only tell one side of the story.
sd, we’re lucky to have so much wild country hereabouts, both high and coastal. Even our banged up forestry and Bob Carr Parks are good for a ramble. Of course, dogs and cats decide what wildlife gets to live or die. Fido and Moggie massacre day and night while animal rescuers fuss over a single wallaby hit by a car. Our main survivors are swamp wallabies, small and nimble enough to duck into the lantana I suppose. Not a glimpse of a koala in years, nobody hears their bellowing in areas where the sound used to be nightly.
Still, it’s a seriously big river, valley and flood plain, the Macleay, with plenty of forests and beaches. The escarpment is even more interesting.
Want some bower birds, free to good home? No, please, I insist.
Robert, yes, dogs and foxes are wiping out the koala. At least down your way National Parks will run baiting programmes which are very target specific and eradicate the feral canid and feline predators. Up here they are very reluctant to upset the tummies of our beloved dingoes which makes our Nat Parks the most dangerous places for our natives.
So the more national parks we declare, the worse it is for native wildlife.
But science is just so certain that more dingoes lead to greater biodiversity.
sd,
On Dingos, they are becoming extinct in many places anyway, as the wild domestics outbreed them. I have spoken to property owners in Southern NSW and mountain Vic who will not attempt to run sheep anymore, but also will not venture,” out the back”, unarmed. Such a natural paradise. ( Some have interbred with maremmas ,the cute little things. )
Also worth looking at the first painting of the dingo, which Oz and Britain are fighting over, Painted from drawings and skins, it raises the question, “What is a dingo?” Its companion kangaroo painting is accurate , so what sort of dingo was there?
Talk of thorium , I am led to believe that the Indian model works on a meltable fuse, which upon overheating separates the agents. No bedrock needed. The future of them is seen as semi-portable.Apparently terrorists will still be able to do bad things with it –
http://phys.org/news/2012-12-thorium-proliferation-nuclear-wonder-fuel.html#jCp
However , the latest bunch, ISIS, seem to have just bought whatever they want on the open market.
Ian Thomson June 30, 2014 at 9:04 am #
“The only thing we really have proved, beyond any doubt, is that we actually know ‘piss all, about piss all.
This morning, even the most brilliant mathematical proof ever, may be wrong about the speed of light. Why ? Someone, with an open mind and no axe to grind, noticed something different.”
Here are some snippets from that article.
Was Einstein wrong all along? Controversial theory suggests the speed of light is SLOWER than we think
• Albert Einstein argued that, in theory, nothing can travel faster than light
• Speed of light in a vacuum is thought to travel at 186,282 miles per second
• But James Franson from Maryland University believes it is slower than this
• In 1987, light particles of a supernova arrived 4.7 hours later than expected
• Dr James Franson suggests this may be because of ‘vacuum polarisation’
• This, he claims, had a gradual, but significant, impact on speed of photons
• If he is correct, it means scientists have to recalculate everything from our distance to the sun to some of the most distant objects in other galaxies
By Ellie Zolfagharifard
Published: 06:37 EST, 27 June 2014 | Updated: 04:01 EST, 1 July 2014
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2672092/Was-Einstein-wrong-Controversial-theory-suggests-speed-light-SLOWER-thought.html
Larry’s comment: I winced while reading this article. The ‘hand-waving’ is par for the course for pop sci news articles. Ditto for the sensationalistic part of the headline:
“Was Einstein wrong all along?”
For more than 100 years, physicists have been conducting experiments to test Special Relativity and General Relativity. Einstein has always been right — within the limits of experimental error.
It’s possible that Franson is right about this one specific thing. However I did not see enough information to convince me that this is the case. The holes are big enough that Al Gore could fly his corporate jet through them.
But assuming that Franson got it right, does this mean that Einstein was WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING, as the headline suggested? Hardly.
Here’s another fishy quote from the article:
“The star’s collapse, which was seen from Earth in 1987, triggered a burst of neutrinos – an electrically neutral, weakly interacting elementary subatomic particle.
“According to Einstein, this should have happened roughly three hours before a burst of optical light – and from that moment on, the pulses should have kept pace, both travelling at the speed of light.
“However, the optical light arrived roughly 7.7 hours after the neutrinos – or 4.7 hours late.”
It wasn’t until the 1930s that neutrinos were postulated to exist, in order to explain mass-energy discrepancies in certain nuclear reactions. Since then, we have built very expensive neutrino detectors. We’ve confirmed that the elusive beasties exist, and that they’re even stranger than we originally thought.
Question: Did Einstein ever publish anything about neutrinos from supernovas, as the article suggests? Or did the author just make up that part of the article?
I despise mindless, “social currency” science journalism. No offense, Ian.
Yes, Ian, the dingo is one of the poorer examples of the canid family but it is the scientific ideology of it being “naturalised” that gives free rein [awa reign] to all canids, and other carnivore predators.
Sadly, the loss of profit margin in grazing properties has allowed huge increases in these predators but at least large private properties can still bait, whereas national parks have to protect the “dingo” that really only exists in very few places.
Jaycee July 1 @ 10:22.
Yes civilizations have collapsed.
But your reasoning is perhaps a little blinkered.
Considering that humanity is STILL one of the most successful species on the planet, (ie we’re still here and there’s even more of us) perhaps those collapses also had something to do with the structure of those specific civilizations?
Every generation has its crop of doomsayers. . . yet still we muddle on. . .albeit not perfectly.
More temp tampering by GISS. This time they’ve managed to adjust up the temp trend for Iceland, but previously it was flat over the same period.
This seems to be the pattern all over the globe. Real man made global warming indeed.
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/more-nasa-giss-temperature-tampering.html
This shows that the GISS tampering goes on and on over a period of just 3 years and 9 months. When will somebody call them out on this scandal? What a con and fraud and the poor taxpayers are being belted all the way.
http://notrickszone.com/2014/07/01/nasas-arctic-fudge-factory-more-than-half-of-claimed-arctic-warming-stems-from-data-adjustments/
Gore’s advisors told him not to hold that joint press conference with Palmer. But big HIPPO Gore is after the hoped for big bucks in the future if a global ETS goes ahead. Hopefully it never will.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/al-gore-told-to-avoid-clive-palmers-environment-circus-20140701-3b6l2.html#ixzz36G7z4lq5
Gore is delicious. No shame, no brains, just huge appetites and a rhinoceros hide. Love his comments about geothermal and how you need special drill bits because the temp is millions of degrees down there. (He prefaced the remark by saying he’d just written a book on the subject. Al!)
The first time he came to Oz a friend of mine was asked by his son to give him money so he could hand it over to Al. In return the son would become a “climate ambassador” and be allowed to say important things about drill bits and polar bears.
These are funny times, but we really need to get the kids out of the kitchen now. It’s getting expensive and dangerous. Don’t wait for the aftermath of a war or economic collapse before you’re prepared to let adults back in.
Hi Larry,
I know where you are coming from about the journalism etc . Was just using it as a very current example of how no science is settled and sleeping the sleep of the dead. I guess you knew anyway.
What is settled apparently, according to the BOM weather girl on ABC local a minute ago, is that,
“Sydney has just had the hottest six months on record and Victoria has too
Here is the Banks dingo-
http://www.news.com.au/world/australia-and-the-uk-battle-over-historic-paintings-of-a-kangaroo-and-a-dingo/story-fndir2ev-1226749955419
Any image I have found of the dingo painting, is somehow cleverly encrypted and does not print clearly. Cunning buggers, the Poms.
Ian, that’s an interesting painting of the dingo. Out in the channel country 60 years ago many dingoes looked like that and even stranger. Some with curly tails and white spots on their backs. Later on DNA tests were done of them and they were found to be genuine dingoes.
There were literally thousands of them and they had only recently arrived from coastal regions. Prior to that it was un-netted sheep country.
I made a year’s wages one morning just digging 600 pups in burrows out of the sand hills near a big waterhole.
That’s around the time all the bilbies [we just called them bandicoots] started disappearing.
Now of course the kelpie and Alsatian influence has increased and changed them.
Be interesting to know at what point in the DNA measurement they cease to be a dingo.
I hope it’s more accurate than the [official, adjusted] temperature measurement ☺.
Ian Thomson July 2, 2014 at 10:15 am #
“I know where you are coming from about the journalism etc . Was just using it as a very current example of how no science is settled and sleeping the sleep of the dead. I guess you knew anyway.”
Yes, “settled science” is an oxymoron. That epiphany is a huge part of scientific literacy. It’s sad that most science writers are living in a world of fairy tales. This was true even before AGW reared its ugly head.
Mathematics however, is a different ball of wax. I’ve done some original work on Benford’s Law. Since I do not have an institutional affiliation, and am well outside the ‘old boy network’, I posted it at HubPages. If you’ve ever used a slide-rule, you have the necessary background to grok it. If anyone is interested, I’ll give a link.
sd,
I suspect that the iconic, tourist look, light tan dingo is the SE Asian campfire dog, which ironically I saw feature on TV about some time back. I think it was Malaysia, where a semi retired army officer was breeding them up, because they were a type of native treasure.
It is not PC to talk about waves of aboriginal immigration, but that type may well have been quite a late arrival.
Your information about the Channel Country is really interesting.
Certainly, the oldest written information I have come across about Australasia , was from notes taken of Malay mariners descriptions.
Alan’s conclusion is worth looking at:
“I for my part, take Aunty’s stuff as virtual gospel?
They have sites that welcome input!”
The premier ABC discussion site, The Drum, has not published a sceptical article since Chip Rowley took over from Jonathan Green. Green is a true alarmist but at least gave sceptics some tax-payer funded access. But Rowley and the current ABC management are a joke costing the Australian taxpayer over $1 billion PA.
Naturally Gav has agreed with Alan and no more needs to be said about that.
Jaycee is mouthing the usual minimalist, repressive Green view of humanity; that humanity should regress to the natural life-style and mind our manners. It is a creepy, inherently misanthropic view that screams bureaucrats and navel gazers and generally small people who have no vision.
Everything humans have today, in the West, which the rest of the world desires so much [hence boat people and one-way immigration], which is the best humanity has ever has, has come entirely from keeping nature at bay and in fact defeating nature.
Nature gives nothing; Darwin showed us this. To advocate living according to natural restraints, in the idiotic ‘sustainable’ way is a recipe for misery.
In 1969 man landed on the Moon; I thought this was the start of humanity’s voyage to the Stars; but since then the bureaucrats, luddites and misanthropes have taken over and suppressed human endeavour.
If the money wasted on AGW had been spent on space we would now have a colony on the Moon and be well on our way to establishing one on Mars.
No I don’t have shares in an Aussie invented anything, except collapsible containers.
[Aussies didn’t invent banks, telephones, electric cars and bulk shipping.]
I would add regenerative braking to the Aussie invented fuel saver.
Reports seem to indicate that it works as is, with reported increased fuel economy, of around 30%.
Perhaps, a solenoid, keeps the Alternator charging? When the two elements add to the burn, perhaps they add some heat and a cleaner burn all round, and as soon as they do burn, create water vapor or steam, which might add to the power stroke, or perhaps as the gases are consumed, they create a instant vacuum, that improves the air intake? And perhaps the water aids lubrication of the cylinder walls?
Who knows!
Irrefutable science dictates that if you exactly replicate conditions, then you’ll get exactly the same result
If certain levels of Co2 in the atmosphere produced a 2C rise in ambient temperatures, then they will do exactly the same again, when we replicate or even exceed the conditions that caused it, the first time.
And if a 2C rise in ambient temperatures, is enough to begin melting the methane trapped in the frozen tundra, then its enough to replicate the same result!
[One notes, some of the Alaskan permafrost seems to be melting?]
And if those two elements together, caused a 5C rise in average ambient temperatures, the a replication of those conditions, will create exactly what they created, when we last experienced them.
There is no way one can produce a different outcome, with the same set of known conditions!
And if those same set of conditions, lead to extreme weather events so extraordinary, that they lead to to the virtual annihilation of life as we know it; they will do so again!
Yes we could survive for centuries, by going nuclear and underground, growing all our food hydroponically, romancing each other under the glow of halide lights, and drinking desal salt water, that’d be there, regardless.
Unless the warming just continued due to higher carbon/methane loads, and became completely irreversible, as the sulfates melted and added their poisonous vapor, to the atmosphere, as they have done on Venus!
Which some academics postulate, was once an earth like planet?
Now it,s hot enough to melt your boots in seconds, according to the Russians, who sent a probe there!
I hear some private operators have also gone into the space business.
That’s one rocket ride I’d never take; given all through the ride, as we were hurtling through the vacuum of space; I’d be thinking, all the rocket components were sourced at the cheapest possible price!
Such a comforting thought, deep in the subzero vacuum of space?
Alan B.
Larry and Ian Thomson:
Yes, “settled science” is an oxymoron. That epiphany is a huge part of scientific literacy. It’s sad that most science writers are living in a world of fairy tales. This was true even before AGW reared its ugly head.
After reading your exchange I just knew if I went to today’s crop of science stories I would find at least one example.
Of all things….whodathunkit? . . .Kangaroos use their tails to help them walk?
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/07/02/4036228.htm
And Fish are not as stupid as we thought?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/fish-have-good-memories-scientists-say/story-fn3dxix6-1226974860419?nk=4136597e48d0be4ca1ea4b4f8fd44b4e
🙂
Deb, what would we do without breakthrough science in the Publish-or-Perish era? Here I was thinking fish just wandered about getting lucky and someone has found out that at least one species knows where to go.
Maybe this has something to do with why you can’t hook an old trout who’s survived a few baitings? I once had a frustrating experience working for a trout farm whose bosses had the bright idea of putting fish in tanks at shopping centres and letting the public catch them. Turns out the fish had better judgement than the trout farm bosses (who also decided to locate their farm near a dam but in a place where they could not get gravity feed.)
Scientists say fish have good memories. Fishermen also have good memories…or so scientists say.
yes Robert,
And here was I thinking that it was well known that roos use their tails to walk.
Apparently not?
Or maybe it’s not ‘officially’ accepted until it’s in some research?
I’m seriously starting to wonder who the stupid sub species actually are when it comes to ‘environmental sciences’ and/or ‘earth sciences’ and/or ‘climate science’.
But then again. . .one of the studies that cracked me up completely was one last year that studied a whole cross section of people in the UK and Europe and discovered that drivers could actually more dangerous driving with a hangover even though they are under the legal blood alcohol limit.
whodathunkit????
🙂
@Alan B
I didn’t want to go into details why the alternator idea was a dud, I assumed you knew how it worked.
To make it clear, the idea as proposed would only work if the alternator imposed a load on the engine and generated current regardless of delivering any output to the battery or any other electrical circuitry of the car. (would blow up
if not regulated)
This is not so! So forget it.
There are two areas where energy recovery are possible and actually worthwhile to pursue, one is the regenerative braking you mentioned.
The other is to make use of the waste heat both the exhaust and engine heat!
Many tried, but the effort is not worth it as yet, but if you can think of a way this is the way to go.
Good luck and let us know.
Ian T
“Sydney has just had the hottest six months on record ……..”
Just did a quick check and believe that 2004 may have been hotter. Hard to tell at the moment as I have to check some records. Maybe someone can check.
I make 2004 for Sydney average max temps at 24.53C and 2014 at 24.35C. Maybe they are talking about the mean temperature.
Sydney just had its driest six months on record…in 1888, its driest year. (MInd you, the back half of 1862, the second driest year, was pretty dry, and it’s quite hard to adjust or distort rainfall records.)
Sydney’s five driest years occurred before 1970, who knows why. You might think I’m being flippant, but if the 1888 drought happened now, who doubts for one moment that the climatariat would be all over it like a cheap suit? Who thinks they could resist? Well?
Exactly!
Jen,
FYI
From http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/01/from-iri-eight-misconceptions-about-el-nino-and-la-nina/
“ren says:
July 1, 2014 at 4:28 am
Bob Tisdale
Believe me, it’s a good map.
http://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/isobaric/850hPa/orthographic=-156.93,-7.90,635
Jay Dunnell says:
July 1, 2014 at 5:32 am
Is that a current wind map? Looks incredible!
vukcevic says:
July 1, 2014 at 6:03 am
Jay Dunnell,
If you in the link above, replace number 850 with 250 and zoom out a bit you will see jet streams (Rossby wave) sneaking around the poles, North summer – weak, Southern winter – strong
in-coherent-ite…..:
” Everything humans have today, in the West, which the rest of the world desires so much [hence boat people and one-way immigration], which is the best humanity has ever has, has come entirely from keeping nature at bay and in fact defeating nature.”……at the expense of horrific slaughter right down through the ages, based mainly on property…At the expense of mass migration away from desolated country with destroyed environments..(as in Italy in Caesar’s time)…and a host of other disasters natural or man-made…except!…except for certain indigenous peoples, who were hunter / gatherers for tens of thousands of years…till slaughtered by “the sophisticated” colonisers……cohenite…may I inform you that in a place called “The Coorong” in SA. you can see middens where the indigenous peoples partook of one of the many delicacies available there…for free…without even having to invent the wheel!
You’re going to find this hard to believe, but there are easier ways AND more comfortable ways to live than “consumerism”.
@jc
que?
Sorry, Johnathan….I don’t understand a word of french, save merci’!…could you rephrase your ques’?…..perhaps add a tad more personal opinion in it…old Italian saying..: “Never ask how, without explaining why”….merci’?
But you know. Johnathan..I suddenly had a thought after I posted that last…perhaps he is asking ; “que?”..in the Latin sense…as in “and?”….which is why I failed to completely grasp your meaning…because you have “anglicised” to a conjunction that Latin word, which really is not used on it’s own, but as an added to imply “and”…as in “quoque” : “also(and)”…. perhaps you could next time write it as ;” -que”.
as for the rest see my post above.
Jen,
A view from outside the window and the computer screen
“ROM says:
July 1, 2014 at 2:37 am
SteveB says:
June 30, 2014 at 8:24 pm
&
Farmer Gez says:
July 1, 2014 at 12:58 am
As a 76 year old now retired SE Australian farmer and a follower and commenter on the whole CAGW scam for a decade now, you guys have summed up the attitude towards all the claims of CAGW / Climate change /???? what ever tomorrow of just about every farmer I know and thats a damn lot.
I have watched the changes in the climate and puzzled over those long duration changes both as a farmer for since my mid teens and as a glider pilot of some 50 years now.
About all I have learnt from climate science that would have been of any benefit to my farming pursuit would have been the great swings in the PDO which I can now look back across the decades and very clearly see the changes in the seasonal patterns and rainfall patterns all of them closely paralleling the great swings and different phases of the PDO
Of course even to give credit to climate science for the discovery of the PDO in the 1990′s is badly misplaced as the PDO was actually discovered / unravelled by fishery researchers , not highly paid climate scientists.
From an Australian farming point of view the climate science as promulgated by the climate science cultists is worse than a dead loss as it severely mislead a lot of farmers who had previously and justifiably up until the late 2000′s had trusted scientists implicitly for decades past,
The climate scientists have repeatedly and repeatedly made what are totally spurious, wrong, misleading, corrupted and fanciful and very seriously bad climate predictions which has in the past created a great deal of stress and fear for the future prior to Climate Gate. amongst Australian dryland and irrigation farmers.
A presentation by a couple of CSIRO climate scientists [ ??? ] in the late 2000′s promised us, some couple of hundred farmers at a mid year farming Expo that the whole of eastern Australia was going to become a perpetual drought area, that agriculture would fail in eastern Australia and the rivers would no longer support any irrigation.
It was one of the most depressing and fear for the future inducing presentations by a couple of so called and badly misnamed [ CSIRO ] climate “scientists” I have ever witnessed, presented as accomplished fact for the future with no if’s, but’s, or maybe’s at all.
Followed a year or so later later by the heaviest rainfall recorded over most of eastern Australia since white man’s First Fleet at Sydney Cove in January 1788.
And since nobody in rural areas can tell the slightest difference between what has always been when it comes to the immense variability in weather and the long run of seasons and I after 76 years as rural resident and fifty years of flying using natures own creations to glide tens or hundreds of kilometres in flights most certainly see nothing at all different to what has always been, the total unpredictability of weather and seasons from year to year and decade to decade.
Climate warming scientists in this part of the world are now increasingly looked upon with contempt by nearly all of today’s rural dwellers as just plain incompetent and worse, as deliberate distorters and corrupters and falsfiers of the real truth about the climate.
As many a farmer will quietly tell you in private, when it comes to climate scientists. now spilling over into including most scientists, don’t believe what they say, just follow the money.
Worse for climate science nowadays, we just ignore them as irrelevant, up themselves big time and bigoted against anybody who has the temerity to dare to question their claims and their expertise.
They are now ignored by nearly the entire Australian farming community as they have nothing to offer at all except fear, stress and a deadly hopelessness for the future.”
and more comments at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/06/30/swedish-farmers-reject-the-97-climate-change-consensus/
Farmer Gez , very eloquently, says what I hear around the countryside.
Debbie , if as I sometimes am forced to , one listens to the ‘Star’ radio network , the little ‘human interest’ tagger at the end of their ‘news’ , can be priceless.
Usually starts with ” A study just released has found, …..”
Then again, jc, you could stretch your fevered mind to the Manuelesque que and just explain how you manage to live without consuming.
Wow!
Well said Farmer Gez.
The only thing he forgot to include in his conclusion about all they’re offering atm is : greater expense!
It is a great pity. . . because entities such as CSIRO & BoM were once well respected in rural Australia. . . but that was before they lost their way and their focus was altered.
Jaycee.
Please look up the definition of misanthropy.
I would also suggest that you research the difference between a positive and negative attitude/mindset and which one tends to achieve better overall results.
Debbie..please look up the meaning of “cognitive dissonance”.
As to “Farmer Gez”…..It’s all well and good to dismiss any fluctuation in weather when you farm in one of the wettest(in a farming sense), biggest allowable variably forgiving areas for farming in Aust’, than if you try to farm in a marginal area..it is the marginal areas that feel the first “blitzkrieg” of climate change..where several inches of rainfall can make or break a season.It’s in these marginal dry-farming or even the irrigated farming areas that have most to lose…You ; Gez’..can afford to knock off perhaps ten inches from your annual rainfall and still pull a crop out of the ground, whereas here, just two inches will send the cocky broke after four years.
And Spangled…good to see at least someone (like yourself) living up to his name.
That’s why they’re called marginal areas Jaycee.
It’s not a new phenomenon . . . and there is no discernable difference re the CAGW meme. . .they have always been marginal. . and have always therefore been vulnerable to our highly variable weather/climate.
@jc
I see you never watched Faulty Towers.
Watch it! ..Jonathan!!!…I’m here LIVING it with you and yours!!!
Debbie…you’ve been wearing those horse blinkers again!!….I know you’ve been locked away there in your ” ‘bidgee bohemia” for a long time now…perhaps too long…but out here where climate matters (we don’t get to turn a tap on and off when we want a crop or two!)…the Goyder Line has shifted south and the saltbush has shifted in!….The aquifers have gone saline and the cockys are shifting out!…But hey!…I don’t want to “rain on your parade” (pardon the opportunistic pun), better you go turn on a few taps, give a wave to Gez up there gliding away in the bright blue sky and go and hook the ski-rope up for a lap or two in seventh heaven!…I got work to do!
Very disingenuous jc. Even if you don’t know what a spangled drongo is.
Hi jaycee,
Farmer Gez is pointing out that the from what he sees and hears, nobody who it matters too has faith anymore in official climate predictions. Most farmers I know, are aware that what you get in results, is directly dependent on what you put in.
What Jennifer has been showing everyone lately, is that what the climertolerjists are putting in is corrupted, so how can there be a useable truckload of results?
Most people are also aware that the real knowledge about climate trends has often been discovered by people with expertise other than meteorology, but with open minded curiosity and attention to detail. (As the PDO)
Mr Goyder had no qualifications in anything resembling climertolerjee and certainly no computer models, yet his findings stand. (Yes Deb , marginal land identified in 1865 ).
What findings can climertolerjists claim as standing any test of time?
That is what people ask. Many, like me, can remember when there were no climate scientists anyway.
Steve Schneider changed that, with his end of the world ice age predictions, then his end of the world heat predictions.
How to create a position for oneself , for life.
SD, Dingoes are exceptionally intelligent, in fact those in the know, seem to rate them as the most intelligent and easiest to train dogs in the world?
You’d think smart people would make better use of that, beyond using them as vacuum cleaners on legs, or self taught hunting dogs?
DNA aside, the only pure dingoes we have, or Asian wolf, in the world?
Is probably on Fraser Island, where isolation has prevented any cross breeding?
And where so called rangers, seem to only know how to cull/shoot/kill, all the alpha males and females?
Equally handy with a gun, particularly at the ranges the rangers use or prefer, I’d have tranquilized them, and shipped them off to zoos!
The same intellectual giants, having removed all the horses, force what remains to scavenge or starve?
There used to be food drops, where animal loving locals, used to leave out all their waste and scraps,or even the occasional, dog biscuits. The animals were a lot tamer then!
And now that starving them is all the go, then wonder why B-Q-B chop chewing humans, particularly the small ones, get bitten and or, their food stolen.
I had A collie dingo cross once.
It took only two hours to train him to sit, stand, lay down, stay, heel or come, on just hand signals.
I reckon I could have given those endlessly bragging Kiwis and their pure-breed smithfields, a run for their money at the annual dog trials?
Given I was between homes, I asked a absolutely astounded neighbor, and do anything for ya cobber, to look after him for just a few weeks.
When I returned around a month later, he was gone!
Apparently,he’d just unhooked the chain and went walkabout? Smart dog!
I certainly never taught him to do that or refuse to take him for a daily walk, while I feed out, checked fences, pumps, bores, dam levels and what have you.
I suspect, given his inherent obedience and intelligence, he may just have fetched a handsome dollar?
You may find this surprising, but I haven’t seen or spoken to that neighbor since!
There’s an interesting variation of the dingo or Asian wolf in PNG.
It looks like a dingo crossed with a fox?
Anyhow, this one sings and climbs trees.
Now that’s what I call adaptation.
And talking about kiwis, how did the NZ native parrot, the Kaka, get its name?
It flies around the Southern Alps, screaming, c, c, ca, ca crikey, it’s c, c, ca, ca cold.
Alan B.
Jaycee,
It doesn’t matter what type of farming you do or where or how you do it. . .the prevailing seasonal conditions matters to every last one of us.
Irrigation crops can and do get wiped out too you know.
In fact, before the regulatory and storage networks were put in place. . .this was marginal country re your definition anyway. There are a lot of us irrigators who also operate dry land properties.
This may surprise you Jaycee. . .but sometimes those marginal dry land properties return better than the irrigated properties.
Marginal country has ALWAYS been more vulnerable to variable seasonal conditions. . .that’s why, as Ian points out, it has been identified as such since the late 1800s.
BTW Jaycee,
You appear to have overlooked this particular observation by Farmer Gez?
” A presentation by a couple of CSIRO climate scientists [ ??? ] in the late 2000′s promised us, some couple of hundred farmers at a mid year farming Expo that the whole of eastern Australia was going to become a perpetual drought area, that agriculture would fail in eastern Australia and the rivers would no longer support any irrigation.
It was one of the most depressing and fear for the future inducing presentations by a couple of so called and badly misnamed [ CSIRO ] climate “scientists” I have ever witnessed, presented as accomplished fact for the future with no if’s, but’s, or maybe’s at all.
Followed a year or so later later by the heaviest rainfall recorded over most of eastern Australia since white man’s First Fleet at Sydney Cove in January 1788.”
I was actually present at one of those forums. (it was 2009).
We were also told that the most worrying drying predictions/trends for SE Aust was Autumn.
The next 3 Autumns were the 3 wettest concurrent Autumns on record.
Look it up. . Autumn 10/11/12 for SE Aust.
This Autumn (2014) has delivered us here one of the best Autumn breaks we have seen a very long time. . .BUT. . .it is not universal. . .just a seasonal variable.
The next time it was BoM. . .when BoM’s very expensive GCMs went live. . .last year.
First go at seasonal forecasting was BoM announcing in autumn 2013 an 80% probability of a wetter than average winter/spring for Eastern Australia.
The result?
A severe seasonal drought occurred for most inland Eastern Australia.
More than just the marginal country copped a walloping in that particular season.
Alan, the dingo is the same DNA as the pariah dog of Asia and while I don’t disagree that it is cunning/smart, it is also a cowardly animal compared with most canids.
I think you’ll find that your dingo/collie got most of its brains from the collie side.
Foxes, like cats, climb trees. It depends on the tree. Same with goats. Especially in dingo country.
I’ve suggested to professors to allow one of their PhD students to do a thesis on a biodiversity comparison of Fraser Is, where the dingo is “looking after” the native wildlife as an apex predator should, and Tasmania, where this “beneficial” apex predator never set foot.
Fraser has virtually nothing left for the dingoes to eat. They have scavenged virtually every last native that doesn’t fly or climb trees [and even many of them] so that all they have left is the fish gut that, fortunately, the big numbers of fishermen throw them plus other human offerings.
Tassie, OTOH, has more biodiversity than anywhere on the mainland.
It’s breathtaking that “science” just doesn’t get this and evaluate them for what they really are.
Alan, many times on my own, I have shot and butchered a bullock in dingo country and had what seemed like 1,000 dingoes yodelling around me but still keeping their distance. They weren’t smart enough to work out at those odds they could have had a picnic.
Wolves and most wild dogs would have.
“…and had what seemed like 1,000 dingoes yodelling around me but still keeping their distance. They weren’t smart enough to work out at those odds they could have had a picnic.”
Pr’aps, spangi’…they thought you were too slim pickings to bother about?….a bit gnarly, so to speak!
No doubt, jc, and tough as greenhide too, but the bulk of the meal, the neighbour’s [Kidman] bullock was juicy steak and dripping blood.
Debbie!!..give us a break!…you “hard-core-cockys” haven’t taken the advice of ANY govt’ or semi govt’ dept’ for decades!!!…I remember one such farmer telling me that ; “You listen to their advice and then do the opposite.”…..I bet the only reason you and Gez went to that workshop was for the crust cut-off fritz sangers and Arnott’s creams w/cuppa for free !…..c’mon…fess up!
Wrong on all counts Jaycee.
We have had a CSIRO office here for a long time.
Until CSIRO lost its way and had its focus altered arbitrarily. . . they were outstanding to work with and very well respected by all.
I am a vegetarian, prefer coffee and have never liked cream biscuits. 🙂
Oh! also. . .I attended because I was specifically/personally invited.
” I am a vegetarian,…”
I shouldn’t wonder…
ie.: you have the humour of one !
Spangled drong’ isn’t one…that’s for sure !
What’s wrong with vegetarianism?..well…you know..it’s like a poet / muso who doesn’t drink !…: can you trust them ?
I knew a fanatical vegan once..the only thing she found funny was a carnivore with indigestion after a big roast dinner!….hilarious!
Second all-time sea-ice record in a week is just more global warming.
Quelle science:
http://talkingabouttheweather.wordpress.com/2014/07/01/antarctic-sea-ice-hits-second-all-time-record-in-a-week/
Just one small link on ocean CO2 and a tipping point.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2013PA002570/abstract
“Dr Rae concluded:
“Although the CO2 rise caused by this process was dramatic in geological terms, it happened very slowly compared to modern man-made CO2 rise. Humans have driven CO2 rise in the atmosphere as large as the CO2 rise that helped end the last ice age, but the man-made CO2 rise has happened 100 times faster. This will have a huge effect on the climate system, and one that we are only just starting to see.”
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/news/archive/2014/title,245973,en.php
Just checking current NH sea ice trend
http://www.reportingclimatescience.com/news-stories/article/arctic-sea-ice-decline-continued-in-june-despite-chillier-weather.html
Jaycee.
That almost sounds racist!
Vegetarians are not a particular type. . .they come in all shapes and sizes. . .and there are no particular problems with the sense of humour of vegetarians compared to those who are not vegetarians.
I’m a vegetarian (not vegan) for health reasons and I have no objection to people eating meat.. . and I do occasionally eat a little meat.. .but definitely not sausages.
We also produce fat lambs and fatten store lambs as part of our farming operation.
In fact as far as I’m concerned people’s dietary choices are entirely their own business and I’m wondering why you felt the need to comment?
Maybe you were offended because I pointed out your earlier comment re “hard core cockies” was wrong?
How about you stay on topic rather than making silly, unsubstantiated personal comments about inconsequential nonsense like dietary choices?
We were discussing the CSIRO and BoM weather/climate predictions to farmers in eastern Australia from 2009 to 2013.
Isn’t it rather ironic, in the timeframe we’re discussing here…that one such farmer you mentioned who said:
“You listen to their advice and then do the opposite.”…..
Would have been correct?
However. . .BoM and CSIRO are supposedly the ‘experts’ on weather/climate and government/semi government departments are obliged to follow their advice. . .not the advice of people like that ‘one such farmer’.
It hasn’t been working well lately 🙂
A bush farmer near Ivanhoe NSW, told me that “We call that Elders’, (direct from BOM), forecast, the ‘suicide forecast. ‘Cause if you farmed by it , you would commit suicide in a month”.
While you were checking, gav, did you happen to come across the Global sea ice anomaly:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/iphone/images/iphone.anomaly.global.png
Dropped back in the last couple of days but it has been in excess of 1 million sqklm.
Strange, you didn’t mention it.
And one “huge” effect that man made CO2 has had on the climate system is this:
https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/clip_image002.png
No warming for more than half the time the “Great Concern” has been going on.
” How about you stay on topic rather than making silly, unsubstantiated personal comments about inconsequential nonsense like dietary choices?”
See what I meant by “humour”….geez, Debbie!..where’s your funny-bone ?
Jaycee,
I can see that you consider yourself a ‘legend in your own lunch box’, a self styled comedian and also that you assume sarcasm is something other than ‘the lowest form of wit’ and that you believe that ‘taking the p**s’ is very, very funny.
When you are genuinely funny and/or witty and it is not deliberately at someone else’s expense, I will be one of the first to laugh.
BTW? Irony is sometimes funny. . .don’t you think it’s a tad ironic (and therefore amusing) that your ‘one such farmer’ had the best advice re the time period we were discussing?
In the meantime. . .what about those CSIRO and BoM projections for SE Aust climate/weather between 2009 and 2013 that Farmer Gez was referring to?
Do you consider that good advice and do you think all of that doom and gloom (so like the John O’Brien poem ‘said Hanrahan’) served any particularly useful purpose as a major risk management tool for the Agricultural sector in SE Australia?
“the man-made CO2 rise has happened 100 times faster”…..amazing therefore that temp has not risen for 14-17 years then eh!?
perhaps the co2 will save us from cooling? Who knows , one things for sure, the scientists dont know, let alone all the amateur zealots pushing this doomsday climate change hypothesis.
this link contains a lot of papers suggesting it is not warming we need to worry about? If its true, then we really will have something to worry about. Clearly however the science is not settled, and the doomsayers should hang their heads in shame and embarrassment. (They wont however they will make more biggotted comments like JC, goodness what a hypocrite with his preaching and smugness)
http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/06/29/scientists-and-studies-predict-imminent-global-cooling-ahead-drop-in-global-temps-almost-a-slam-dunk/
Oooo, Debbie!!…now you’re getting vicious..you’ve hit me with a flower…I can see you are not one to banter along with..I’ll no longer bother with you…back you go to your sour grapes!
Just keeping SD up to date with “winds of change” and fishing
http://www.usc.edu.au/university/news-and-events/news/2014/july/climate-study-highlights-winds-of-change
I’m far more interested in your answers Jaycee.
There are no sour grapes on my part, nor am I trying to be vicious. . .it must be one of those straw man thingos?. . .or maybe a bit of projection?
Here’s the last question I asked:
“In the meantime. . .what about those CSIRO and BoM projections for SE Aust climate/weather between 2009 and 2013 that Farmer Gez was referring to?
Do you consider that good advice and do you think all of that doom and gloom (so like the John O’Brien poem ‘said Hanrahan’) served any particularly useful purpose as a major risk management tool for the Agricultural sector in SE Australia?”
Maybe I should add. . .do you think it was useful as a risk management tool for all the government/semi government entities who administer the resources that directly affect Agriculture in SE Australia?
Larry’s comment: Some Emperor Penguin researchers have a really bad case of AGW-inspired confirmation bias. This article at WUWT is truly outstanding.
“Blinded by Beliefs: The Straight Poop on Emperor Penguins”
Posted on July 1, 2014
Guest essay by Jim Steele,
Director emeritus Sierra Nevada Field Campus, San Francisco State University and author of Landscapes & Cycles: An Environmentalist’s Journey to Climate Skepticism
Two recent press releases concerning the Emperor Penguin’s fate illustrate contrasting forces that will either advance or suppress trustworthy conservation science. The first study reminds me of Mark Twain’s quip, “Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned.” Embodying that truism is a paper by lead author Dr. Michelle LaRue who reports new advances in reading the Emperor Penguin’s fecal stains on Antarctic sea ice that are visible in satellite pictures. Two years ago the fecal stain method identified several large, hitherto unknown colonies and nearly doubled our estimate of the world’s Emperor Penguins.1,2 That didn’t mean climate change had necessarily increased penguin numbers, but a larger more robust population meant Emperor Penguins were far more resilient to any form of change.
LaRue’s new study advances the science by analyzing the shifting patterns of penguin poop, and her results are prompting some scientists to “unlearn” a key belief that has supported speculation of the Emperors imminent extinction.
You can read more here.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/01/blinded-by-beliefs-the-straight-poop-on-emperor-penguins/
I see our warmist boys are still clutching every dead straw they can find, what a laugh. Something like this so called expert making a goose of himself trying to exaggerate normal ice formation over the Arctic.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/how_a_warmist_expert_presents_the_normal_as_a_sign_of_dangerous_warming/
Just more proof that Obama’s message is baloney. And all you require is the evidence and simple maths plus the ability to understand simple graphs.
This has been my argument ever since I came to this blog. IOW the mitigation of CAGW is a fraudulent waste of time and money. CASE CLOSED.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/07/04/message-to-the-president-data-shows-co2-reduction-is-futile/