Climate change sceptic, Marc Morano, debates true believer, Joe Romm, on RC TV Part 1 here, Part 2 here.
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Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
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Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
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Too slow for my NEXTG connection. Hopefully this might be recast on Youtube? for download at a later date?
Louis it’s a very one sided debate, Morano using facts and the truth wiped the floor with this delusional fool.
I agree with you Neville. Romm’s whole rebuttal was “your a liar”, and then he just repeated it.
Just filing this here:
[Morano note: Romm spends an entire 832 word article on me attempting to convince people they should pay no attention to me! Read more about the Morano v. Romm global warming debate on Roll Call TV. Also, Romm claims: “Morano never mentions he was ‘previously known as Rush Limbaugh’s ‘Man in Washington,’ as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show.” Memo to Romm, please simply read my bio on ClimateDepot.com, it is prominently mentions my work for Rush Limbaugh. ]
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Romm Bans ClimateDepot.com in Post Debate Rant! ‘Morano is unquotable and uncitable’ – Will not link to debate! – ‘Morano-free zone’ – April 7, 2009
Excerpt: This blog will be a Morano-free zone. […] Morano is simply not part of the legitimate discussion about climate science and policy. Marc Morano is unquotable and uncitable. […]Yes, I did debate Swift Boat smearer Morano recently – but I was filling in at the last minute as a favor. […] I will not be linking to his website nor will I allow any links to his website to appear on this blog. […] I’d recommend not debating Swift Boat smearer Morano since he certain to make stuff up and smear you. […] I am not going to post the links here, since I don’t view watching the debate as a productive use of your time. […] As readers know, I believe such debates are pointless if not counterproductive, since we have known for 25 centuries that debates are not won on the facts but by who is a better debater, which is to say, who understands the principles of rhetoric (see “Why scientists aren’t more persuasive, Part 2: Why deniers out-debate “smart talkers” and “Voodoo Economists 4: The idiocy of crowds or, rather, the idiocy of (crowded) debates“). In particular, it is very hard to win a debate against someone who just repeatedly makes stuff up.
http://climateprogress.org/2009/04/07/swift-boat-smearer-marc-morano-global-warming-denie
Memo to media, blogosphere: Swift boat smearer Marc Morano has no credibility. He is unquotable and uncitable
“Morano … was also among the first reporters to write about the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign…. Morano penned an article questioning the Purple Heart medals of Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.).”
Swift boat smearer Marc Morano, former denier-in-chief (DIC) for Sen. James Inhofe (R-OIL), is emailing around his bio and his new website to whatever members of the media are aching to tarnish their professional reputations. You can read that full bio in the Wonk Room post “Climate Depot Alert! Global Warming Denier Marc Morano Sets Up Shop! Now With Crazier Formatting!” — I can’t bring myself to inflict it on you.
And yet Swift Boat smearer Morano leaves out of his emailed bio that on May 3, 2004, he wrote the CNS article “Kerry ‘Unfit to be Commander-in-Chief,’ Say Former Military Colleagues” — a pack of lies ahead of its time! He leaves out his smearing of Murtha. He never mentions he was “previously known as Rush Limbaugh’s ‘Man in Washington,’ as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show.” Isn’t this all first-paragraph-bio stuff for a right-winger? Well, thank heaven for SourceWatch.
So major media, if you think the research behind the widely repudiated Swift Boat smear was credible, if you think Rush Limbaugh’s rantings are credible, then, by all means, as Morano suggests, keep his name and info in your Rolodex (font, color in original):
For your on-air expert contributor talent files: Credentialed “Counter Guest” to popular global warming ideology
I will be taking a different tack. Morano is simply not part of the legitimate discussion about climate science and policy. Marc Morano is unquotable and uncitable.
Besides his penchant for smear, he just makes stuff up and misrepresents scientists’ work, as I (and others) have repeatedly shown (see, for instance, Scientist: “Our conclusions were misinterpreted” by Morano, CO2 — but not the sun — “is significantly correlated” with temperature since 1850 and Inhofe and Morano keep making stuff up, this time utterly misquoting Revkin on Hansen). See also ConWebWatch’s “Lies, Conservatives and Statistics: Marc Morano’s Fantasy.”
For a journalist, quoting or citing him as a source is the Swiftist way to smear your own reputation. For anyone other than a rightwing anti-scientific blogger, even linking to his new site ClimateDepot to debunk him gives him the attention and credibility he does not deserve.
I will not be linking to his website nor will I allow any links to his website to appear on this blog. It is conceivable that circumstances might arise where I refer to something Swift boat smearer Marc Morano has written, but I can’t imagine them right now.
Yes, I did debate Swift Boat smearer Morano recently – but I was filling in at the last minute as a favor. As readers know, I believe such debates are pointless if not counterproductive, since we have known for 25 centuries that debates are not won on the facts but by who is a better debater, which is to say, who understands the principles of rhetoric (see “Why scientists aren’t more persuasive, Part 2: Why deniers out-debate “smart talkers” and “Voodoo Economists 4: The idiocy of crowds or, rather, the idiocy of (crowded) debates“). In particular, it is very hard to win a debate against someone who just repeatedly makes stuff up.
Fortunately, Swift Boat smearer Morano isn’t a terribly good debater and really screwed up in the second half. While I am seriously out of practice, I’d say I did about as well as one can do. I am not going to post the links here, since I don’t view watching the debate as a productive use of your time — and ClimateProgress is all about saving you time by separating the wheat from the chaff — but you can find them on the not-so-Accuweather Blog here:
On one side we had Jim (sic) Romm of Climateprogress.org. Romm is also the former acting Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Department of Energy under the Clinton Administration.
OK, Brett Anderson — or is that Brent or maybe Bratt — you don’t have to read my blog or know who the heck I am — but how about two seconds on Google? Or how about even listening to the debate you linked to? I was introduced, and then I think Morano used my name a dozen times. Still what do you expect from a guy who writes “Marc is well known on this blog and has posted comments here from time to time”?
I’d recommend not debating Swift Boat smearer Morano since he certain to make stuff up and smear you. If you do agree to debate him, please email me and I’d be happy to
1. try to discourage you
2. give you some tips on how to exploit his weaknesses.
After this post and the comments below, this blog will be a Morano-free zone.
Just say no!
Thanks for that Jennifer, isn’t it great to see someone win the debate using facts and the truth but then the loser using so much BS still trying to discredit him.
filing some more:
[Morano Note: I have never seen so much hand-wringing by climate fear promoters over one fair global warming TV debate. More on debate here. Also, my debate opponent, former Clinton Admin. Official Joe Romm has now declared a ‘Morano-Free Zone’ at his website ClimateProrgress.org: see: Romm Bans ClimateDepot.com in Post TV Debate Rant! ‘Morano is unquotable and uncitable’ – Refuses to link to debate! – Also another climate fear promoter’ analysis: What are we going to do about the Marc Moranos of this world? ]
Chris Mooney: Why Reason Loses In Climate Debates: Special Marc Morano Edition – Discover Mag. – April 9, 2009 (Note: Mooney authored The Republican War on Science, his bio here,
Excerpt: Marc Morano has long been Senator James Inhofe’s top global warming spinmeister and talking head. His special ability is to argue super-fast, spewing out questionable claims, a kind of howitzer of climate “skepticism.” […] Morano is going to get on TV, and he’s going to sow more doubt about global warming. He’s quite effective at this–frankly, even as I lament it, I’m also impressed by his skill–and has a think tank behind him. And they’re willing to fight damn hard to get their point of view across. […] In my view, while it may be justified (not to mention hard to resist), it’s rather pointless to get mad at Morano, or CFACT, over this. They’re playing the game to win, and they’re very good at it. Frankly, we should be paying close attention to their tactics, and even trying learn from them. […] There’s the wealthy philanthropists and well funded think tanks and interest groups on our side who, faced with this unfavorable media environment, have failed to adapt and equip us with counter-Moranos–intellectual warriors who are not only up for the task of setting the record straight, and defending accurate science, but actually have it as their full time job description. This is hardly impossible to do; you can learn to be a good TV debater, a stunningly effective advocate for your own side…but who has time to really make an art of it? Who is funded to do this? So far as I can tell, it’s generally conservatives, that’s who. And that, my friends, is the latest installment of “why reason loses”….
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/04/09/why-reason-loses-special-marc-morano-edition/
Geoengineering is “On the Table” in Obama Administration
Policy Fellowships For Scientists & Engineers »
Why Reason Loses: Special Marc Morano Edition
Dear Reader: I encourage you to head on over to DeSmogBlog for the latest evidence of why it is that all our money spent on global warming research does not suffice to solve the problem.
Warning, it’s likely to make you angry.
Marc Morano has long been Senator James Inhofe’s top global warming spinmeister and talking head. His special ability is to argue super-fast, spewing out questionable claims, a kind of howitzer of climate “skepticism.” (Below, for example, see Morano’s recent debate with Joe Romm provided in its first installment, with the second here. Joe tries to be patient in debating Morano, and to correct him as much as possible–a valiant attempt, but it’s simply impossible to correct everything Morano says as he bowls you over with dubious assertions.)
I bring all this up because Morano has now left Inhofe’s service; instead he’s joined an anti-global warming think tank, the Committee For a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT), which has lost no time in pitching him to the media. DeSmogBlog has the email they’ve been sending out; it reads in part like this:
Here’s your counter guest debater to Al Gore and Global Warming Climate change disinformation plus how Obama’s Policies are affecting our economy.
For your on-air expert contributor talent files: Credentialed “Counter Guest” to popular global warming ideology: Here’s your anti-Gore Global Warming Expert who offers the science to counteract partisan and ideologically driven Environmental entities and issues.
If you believe most, or all, of the global warming dogma, you may use Marc as your “counter guest” to offer a lively, fair and balanced discussion to your audience. If you are a skeptic of the current doctrine, Marc can aid your program by clearing up the deception with the facts.
Marc Morano infuses the environmental debate with a balanced and truthful scientific perspective. Marc’s agenda is to revolutionize Climate and Environmental news dissemination to portray the accurate truth.
The thing is, this stuff is totally going to work. Morano is going to get on TV, and he’s going to sow more doubt about global warming. He’s quite effective at this–frankly, even as I lament it, I’m also impressed by his skill–and has a think tank behind him. And they’re willing to fight damn hard to get their point of view across.
In my view, while it may be justified (not to mention hard to resist), it’s rather pointless to get mad at Morano, or CFACT, over this. They’re playing the game to win, and they’re very good at it. Frankly, we should be paying close attention to their tactics, and even trying learn from them.
If we’re going to get mad at anyone, meanwhile, I can see two appropriate targets. First, there’s the media who allow this game to work, by creating environments (especially on television) where good science can easily get defeated by good rhetoric.
And second, there’s the wealthy philanthropists and well funded think tanks and interest groups on our side who, faced with this unfavorable media environment, have failed to adapt and equip us with counter-Moranos–intellectual warriors who are not only up for the task of setting the record straight, and defending accurate science, but actually have it as their full time job description. This is hardly impossible to do; you can learn to be a good TV debater, a stunningly effective advocate for your own side…but who has time to really make an art of it? Who is funded to do this?
So far as I can tell, it’s generally conservatives, that’s who. And that, my friends, is the latest installment of “why reason loses”….
April 9th, 2009 by Chris Mooney in Conservatives and Science, Global Warming, Media and Science, Unscientific America | 7 comments | RSS feed | Trackback >
7 Responses to “Why Reason Loses: Special Marc Morano Edition”
1. Jumblepudding Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 9:53 am
Ecch. Somebody fetch this guy a classical laurel crown for his debating skills. Make sure it’s wilted and dead and to indicate that it’s been killed by air pollution.
2. SLC Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Mr. Mooney, there’s nothing new about this. This tactic has been around for a long time and is known as the Gish Gallop, after young earth creationist Duane Gish.
3. Ashutosh Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:45 am
Quite. Some AWG denialists are exactly like creationists. They want to bury you under objections and rhetoric. You don’t seem to have gotten a doctor’s prescription against arguing with such people, the way Dawkins (or is it Gould?) apparently got one for arguing against creationists.
4. gaseous_cloud Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Mr. Mooney,
Get a grip. Your “side” OWNS the media. You have no monopoly on reason. You do seem to have a monopoly on emotional appeals to fear. Some day, you may be proven wrong. You may be proven right. Right now, you have no idea, but you seem to have made a nice side business of delivering your own reactionary opinions.
5. Jon Winsor Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Saying “Gish Gallop” probably won’t help you much on cable teevee…
6. Jon Winsor Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:58 am
I think conservatives’ hope is that we and our views stay corralled in nerd ghettos, so to speak. I think Chris is right that people have to figure out how to effectively reach out to a more popular audience…
7. Jon Winsor Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Try that again: …stay corralled in nerd ghettos…