I was interested to hear Australia’s shadow Environment Environment Minister, Peter Garrett, on ABC Radio National yesterday explain that should Labor win government, Australia would sign up to a post Kyoto agreement even if China and the US did not come onboard.
I then heard the Prime Minister, John Howard, phone in to local ABC radio claiming to be ”startled” by this revelation.
Mr Howard went on to explain that this was not responsible policy because Australia would be economically disadvantaged… essentially the same reason the Prime Minister uses for not signing Kyoto.
But the Environment Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, has been silent on the issue.
Mr Turnbull also ignored the article, Time to Ditch Kyoto, published in science journal Nature just last Thursday that, while acknowledging that global warming is a real issue, explained in some detail what credible economists have been saying for some time, that the Kyoto Protocol is not a solution.
It is Coalition policy not to sign Kyoto. But such obvious potential life-lines as a major article in Nature supporting Coalition policy are being ignored, including by the Coalition.
Graham Young suggests the problem is Malcolm Turnbull:
“On Kyoto the Liberals have refused to ratify the treaty on the basis that it is mere ineffective symbolism. So you would have thought that they would have jumped on an article in the latest edition of Nature which not only agrees, but suggests the correct solution is to get the 20 largest polluters together to make an agreement, and to spend money on research and development – all Coalition initiatives that have been ridiculed by Labor. Yet they didn’t. Sunday’s papers made it clear why – Environment Minister Turnbull isn’t playing a team game and actually wants to ratify Kyoto…
Read the complete blog post here: http://ambit-gambit.nationalforum.com.au/archives/002493.html
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
The real issue is that Rudd is willing to sign a blank cheque for anything dreamed up by the Eurospivs, without any regard for whether it will actually be in the interests of ordinary Australians.
He has placed international symbolism ahead of his obligations to “well and truly serve” the Australian people. This obligation to properly exercise his powers in government is now subordinate to whatever takes the fancy of the Brussels mafia. For without the USA, China and India, we are essentially talking about deference to Europe.
After 107 years of sovereign independence the best the ALP can come up with is the transfer of gormless colonial cringe from London to Brussels. So where is Keating now with his “lick-spittlers to forces abroad” line”.
if you are committed to the targets, there is no risk from signing up. Signing just gives you access to mechnisms within the protocol you otherwise wouldn’t have. Big deal
What has come out of this debate is the perception that there isnt that much between Lib and ALP policies on GW and Kyoto, which cuts the ground from under the ALP.
Turnbull is a possible contender for the No1 position and he has just been taken out.
He lacks the experience as does Garrett who just had to backflip on Kyoto;
“Following a crisis meeting between Mr Rudd, Mr Garrett and Labor advisors in Cairns, Mr Garrett issued a statement saying that Labor’s policy was to seek binding emissions targets from both developing and developed nations at the upcoming Bali conference.”
And exactly which “mechanisms” would we miss out on by continuing to not sign Kyoto, Anthony?
I welcome John Howard and Malcolm Turnbush to the converted. Even life long heretics can be decarbonated to life evergreen.
Sing Gores Psalm for the Converted and be clean green, I’ve just finished writing it and it ‘s a beauty.. sing and you will save the planet.
I see the bad moon arising.
I see trouble on the way.
I see earthquakes and lightnin’.
I see bad times today.
Don’t go around tonight,
Well, it’s bound to take your life,
There’s a bad moon on the rise.
I hear hurricanes ablowing.
I know the end is coming soon.
I fear rivers over flowing.
I hear the voice of rage and ruin.
All right!
Hope you got your things together.
Hope you are quite prepared to die.
Looks like we’re in for nasty weather.
One eye is taken for an eye.
I hear hurricanes ablowing.
I know the end is coming soon.
I fear rivers over flowing.
I hear the voice of rage and ruin.
That will be $180,000 USD because I am green and love green backs.
Vote Gore by consensus, world’s best scientist.
I call it a “Good Gore on the Rise”.
At ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHT PERCENT and with the LUCF sector not properly (i.e. there’s more in it) Aussie should be able to piss it in with one hand behind back. Europsivs indeed – 108% – come on !!!
Howard’s position was stupid, he said we will make the targets anyway using green policies already in existence and then does his all the way with LBJ (Bush) thing being a mover and shaker in world affairs, like he dreams. Bush cut the ground out from under him announcing early there by making APEC a squib for Howard.
He could have argued getting emerging economy emmiters into a New thing from being in the Kyoto tent.
So he split the enviro vote leaving himself stranded from agw skeptics like me and true believers.
He’s an idiot and risks trade blocs from EU people for a no brainer and no loss situation.
It looks like we’ll have little choice but to sign Kyoto anyway, given this:
http://euobserver.com/19/25047
I love “Al Gores” sense of the ridiculous, didnt Creedence Clearwater (of all names),also have a song called “Who’ll stop the rain”.
The alarmists could make them their theme songs.
Re: wizofaus’s post and link –
The EU ought to clean up the 150 years of CO2 emissions that they created in the first place. If France taxes Australia’s exports we’ll have to slap a duty on the uranium they buy from us.
Ian:
joint implementation, clean development mechanism, emissions trading – all the things which we could use to facilitate technology development and transfer – benefitting us and others and achieving profitable abatement. We could even use it to leverage some land use change projects, a pet favourite of yours I know
Guys, it’s not the symbolism of Kyoto so forget that – it’s the legal obligation that is entered into on rattification that should be discussed. Europe has hung itself up by its own petard and doesn’t want to fall alone.
Words of Lenin – “capitalists will sell you the rope with which you will hang them”.
If China / India etc are not party – as inevitably Annexure A nations fail to meet their targets, they can sue for damages in each jurisdiction.
Any nation that rattifies has potentially signed its own death warrant – as its own legal system can henceforth be used to claim damages / compensation totalling billions. Look at poor New Zealand! Its no wonder China wants to participate – but not as an Annexure A player.
Arnost, don’t sign up to a target you can’t meet – meet the target you do sign up to. Simple. Put your balls on the line and get the job done. In Australia’s case, 108% increase should have been walked in.
http://www.climatelaw.org/
and there are legal risks regardless of your Kyoto position. All those on these site that don’t think climate change is an issue – what would you be prepared to stump up in damages if you are proved wrong?
http://www.ieta.org/ieta/www/pages/index.php?IdSiteTree=1246
did someone say liability?
Anthony
My point exactly – now compound this by a Kyoto style framework under which you have tantamount to accepted the responsibility.
Arnost, catch 22, you need targets that get the reductions to avoid the rabid mob but you can’t sign anything you can’t achieve cos then you’re liable. What do you do hot shot?
ahhhhh….
Arnost, catch 22, you need targets that get the reductions to avoid the rabid mob but you can’t sign anything you can’t achieve cos then you’re liable. What do you do hot shot?
ahhhhh….
Set targets without signing anything?
Thats what you’d do if you weren’t serious about making the target, yes. But then you are at the mercy of the mob, particularly when you have gone for 108% increase. Interesting to see Guy Pearse is on the speaking tour.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2006/s1568353.htm
For those with short memories…I wonder if any of that is admissable evidence?
That idiot Rudd has just announced a commitment to 20% renewable energy by 2020, just a couple of days after the UK have announced they are with withdrawing from such a commitment, because its too expensive.
Looks like he’s trying to sure up some of the more rabid rat bag green vote.
“Al Gore” is now becoming a term of abuse, thanks to the misuse by “Luke Skywalker”
Rudd’s not an idiot… probably a nice guy that’s quite bright. But the party he’s a part of is evil.
The Labor party is a dangerous beast. Their motto appears to be get into power and stay in power regardless of the consequences. Spend Spend Spend, Spin Spin Spin and ensure you win – that’s all they do.
Both stints in the Fed Govt that Labor had resulted in massive National debt – and recessions we had to have. Why? ensure you win… Over the last ten years the Libs have repaid the Labor incurred debt whilst still achieving national growth. Meanwhile the Labor dominated States, while getting more federal funding than ever before plus their own Stamp Duty etc revenue (a phenomenal amount in the case of NSW on the back of the housing boom) run deficits and spend next to nothing on roads, public transport, hospitals and education. They live the gravy train…! And they still spin it for all it’s worth.
I live on the lower North Shore of Sydney – seats that Labor will never win. And they know it. They promise a new crossing at the Spit and a week after they win it’s bad luck… They remove funding from the hospital here – having a misacriage dear? Sorry Labor’s cut our funds – The toilet’s over there.
I appologise to all re the last bit above – but this is something that’s near and dear.
Bottom line – the only reason that KRUDD is so gungho on Kyoto is because he thinks it will win him a couple of key votes. He does not give a damn about the consequences as that’s either next elections problem (or realistically the next Lib govt’s problem) or something he can spin away in the future (The consensus you know).
Sydney does not have a water shortage becasue of climate change – it has a water shortage becasue the dams that were built in the 50’s for a population of less than 1 million can’t support a population of more than 4 when we have a bit of a drought. And Carr in his wisdom made the Welcome Reef dedicated catchment an international heritage reserved area – so no future water for Sydney & Canberra. Bad luck… you can’t wash the nappies… Climate Change you know.
Wran sold off all the properties bought up to extend the F4 all the way at a massive loss – we’ll provide public transport. Well, where is it? He did jack. As to Carr and Iemma – where are the Oscars and millenium trains? The train services were made to run slower to meet “timetables” but guess what – they are still slow. And the buses (that I catch each day) are beyond a joke.
end of rant
I guess you know which way I’m voting…
F4=M4
The reasoning was that because the BLF (builders labourers union) had slapped green bans on all the properties previously acquired for the completion of the M4 there was no point in holding them and the minister at the time let them go, proceeds to Treasury.
Wran was one keen to exploit “hollow logs” whilst accomodating the unions every whim.
“One estimate of the effect of the BLF’s green bans puts the amount of development prevented at AUD 3 billion between 1971 and 1974 (approximately AUD 18 billion in 2005 money)”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_ban
Not so fast, Anthony. You need to do better than toss in a few vague cliches.
EXACTLY WHICH FORMAL MECHANISMS WOULD WE BE EXCLUDED FROM BY NOT SIGNING KYOTO? AND WHY?
The EU tax on non Kyoto imports has nothing to do with climate change and everything to do with that old fashioned Euroscum custom of trade protectionism. The target is not Australia and USA but the flood of cheap imports from China.
New jargon, same old Euroscam.
oooooo ooooo ooooo – the sky is going to fall in …. run … flee
Maybe interest rates will go to 23% under Howard again. Maybe all those enjoying work choice might start rioting in the streets.
Ian, i can’t be any more straightford. We are excluding from emissions trading, the clean development mechanism and joint implementation. If you don’t know what that means, then you don’t know about Kyoto.
Kyoto was a prototype. It doesn’t matter how many times that’s pointed out, the peanut gallery never gets it.
hello…. Ian….. don’t your farming mates want to trade some easy GHG’s on the global market? or would you rather go cap in hand to the gov?