THERE were concerns that a plan by the German government to reduce atmospheric carbon dioxide levels by dumping iron in the southern ocean would have all sorts of perverse outcomes.
Earlier in the year a spokesperson for the World Wildlife Fund suggested the plan may violate international agreements on marine protection because the algae growth from the iron pollution would result in eutrophication, defined as a proliferation of plant life that reduces oxygen content in water and eliminates other sea life. Some no doubt had images of Blue whales turning belly-up from such a misguided intervention.
The plan was described as the biggest trial ever of iron fertilization, a technology which could stop global warming at very little cost.
Such has been the increasing interest in technological fixes that even the American Meteorological Society has plans for a ‘Geoengineering Statement’ including advice on how to better regulate such proposals.
Anyway, despite protests, the German government gave the green light and a 300-square-kilometre (115-sqare-mile) area of ocean was fertilized with six tonnes of dissolved iron earlier this year.
As expected, the iron stimulated growth of algae, in particular phytoplankton.
The original idea was that the short-lived phytoplankton would die and drop to the bottom of the ocean and become a form of sequestered carbon.
But instead the German scientists observed the phytoplankton eaten by krill which were in turn probably eaten by Blue whales. So instead of ending up dead, the Blue whales have likely benefits from the iron ‘pollution’.
Natural systems are complex, and in this case evidently highly resilient including to manipulation through geoengineering. It seems dumping six tonnes of iron was, well, “just another drop in the ocean”. Certainly it didn’t stop climate change or despoil this pristine environment.
There is so much we don’t understand about the oceans, ocean ecosystems, and also climate.
Recent findings published in ‘Global Biogeochemical Cycles’ suggest a 50 percent decrease in the amount of carbon dioxide absorbed by the North Atlantic Ocean over the last ten years. It’s not krill that is considered at fault here, but rather changes in the North Atlantic Oscillation; which is also thought to control the strength and direction of westerly winds and storms in this region.
There is also the worry that because the oceans absorb and emit carbon dioxide depending on their temperature, that if the world’s oceans start to cool as suggested by recent data from the three thousand free-floating Argo buoys there will be less carbon dioxide emitted from the oceans. Hang-on, this could be good news and reduce the need for all sorts of immediate solutions to the claimed global climate crisis.
**************************************
Notes and Links
The American Meteorological Society defines geoengineering as the deliberate deployment of large scale changes to the earth system in the hope of counteracting the worst effects of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emission.
Thomas et al. Changes in the North Atlantic Oscillation influence CO2 uptake in the North Atlantic over the past 2 decades. Global Biogeochemical Cycles, 2008; 22 (4): GB4027 DOI: 10.1029/2007GB003167
Graph of estimated emissions from worldwide fossil fuel use and the annual increase in atmospheric CO2 sourced from http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/co2/contents.htm , via Tom Quirk. Click on the image for a larger – better view.
http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/03/the-ocean-really-is-cooling/
http://weblog.greenpeace.org/makingwaves/archives/2009/03/ocean_fertilization_aint_gonna.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=aCumfUmTpAJs&refer=home
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090408195557.htm
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
Despite having dealing with WWF for many years , Jennifer Marohasy still don’t know the basic that WWF DON*T stand for World Wildlife Fund ( except in North America).
From WWF:
” Back in 1961 when it was founded, WWF stood for the “World Wildlife Fund”. However, as the organization grew over the 70s and into the 80s, WWF began to expand its work to conserve the environment as a whole (reflecting the interdependence of all living things), rather than focusing on selected species in isolation. So although we continued to use our well-known initials, our legal name became “WWF-World Wide Fund For Nature” (formerly World Wildlife Fund – except in North America where the old name was retained).
More and more, however, to avoid confusion and mixed messages across borders and languages, WWF is known as simply “WWF, the global conservation organization.”
Error : JM doesn’t know ….and WWF doesn’t stand for
I wish those oceans would hurry up and absorb all that ACO2.
The carbos in my breakfast cereal are nearing 90%, my chooks are laying too many eggs, I have to mow the grass twice as often and the lantana is climbing the gum trees.
And these days when I cough I spit out lumps of coke.
WWF is known as simply “WWF, the global conservation organization.”
That’s funny, I thought it quickly morphed into the World Wankers Federation
Spangled
yes it’s a right pain a week after i nearly kill the lawn by cutting it too short the dogs are disappearing in it.
I haven’t quite had that problem yet you must live closer to the source.
“So instead of ending up dead, the Blue whales have likely benefits from the iron ‘pollution’.”
The WWF are hard pressed to asses any logical proceedure. Anyone who observes nature knows that a food source doesn’t get passed up and here it’s no different.
http://homernews.com/stories/012109/news_1_004.shtml
Birdie, I didn’t use the acronym – you did. And the World Wildlife Fund still exists in the US. However, I was quoting Stephen Lutter, who is based in Germany, so it is probably WWF. Cheers,
So WWF were too stupid to make the link between increased phytoplankton and well fed Krill and healthier Blue Whales. Yep, that would be par for the course. It is called a food chain and these WWF morons cannot distinguish between the ecology of an algal bloom in a stagnant river and one in an ocean.
Once again we get hard evidence that mankind can produce major ecological benefits just by dumping his refuse. The biggest population of Albatross in the Southern Hemisphere once relied on Sydneys sewerage outfalls. But then they replaced them with deep ocean outfalls and decimated the species. But don’t worry, there is probably a few deep ocean fish species that are now doing very well thank you.
To me it will always stand for World Wrestling Federation!
Drongo and Ian
You are criticising the WWF in total ignorance of what they actually said, They said nothing of Blue Whales – that is Jennifer’s imagination at work. You can find their actual statement here.
Nick,
Thanks for that but doesn’t that just bear out what we have all said?
Iron fertilisation was always an exciting project with little chance of danger as it occurs naturally.
WWF and other green reactions were very predictable, and as in so many other situations, wrong.
I used to help with their fundraising years ago before I got to know them better.
I stopped donating money to Greenpeace and WWF in 2006 , but after reading all the hatred against environmentalist on Jen’s blog I have restarted my little annual donation again, so Jennifer’s blog in this way has been totally counterproductive!
SD
No, I don’t think it does. The WWF case is essentially that any attempt to fertilise the oceans should be coordinated, and with suitable prior investigation. There was an agreement to that effect, and the German enterprise was in breach of that. I agree with them; the agreement should not have been breached, and a free-for-all approach would be bad. I actually think the iron seeding idea has some promise, and there will be a frustrating time getting appropriate consensus to test it, but I think that is essential.
“a week after i nearly kill the lawn by cutting it too short the dogs are disappearing in it.”
Jan,
Others are beginning to notice, too.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2007/0603-can_carbon_dioxide_be_a_good_thing.htm
Heavens there are some morons posting here:
Jennifer was quoting “,,,Stephen Lutter, who is based in Germany, so it is probably WWF.” so the Blue Whales statement cannot be attributed to Jennifer but to her source.
Now let’s wait for the usual nit-pickers to labour this point to complete boredom.
Birdie,
Your taxes fund Greenpeace etc, via the UN. provided you pay tax in the first place, so donating more doesn’t seem all that sensible.
Birdie April 11th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
“but after reading all the hatred against environmentalist on Jen’s blog I have restarted my little annual donation again, so Jennifer’s blog in this way has been totally counterproductive!(sic)”
You are a strange human being Birdie, cut your nose to spite your face?
I don’t think JM has a secret agenda of converting people? (Are you Jen?)
Besides, some people are certainly ridiculed for their unreasonable beliefs, but hatred? Don’t think so.
“Your taxes fund Greenpeace etc, via the UN” – so how does that work? specifically
Luke,
Feel free to join the morons if you can’t understand it.
Well I got one useful bit of info from Nick’s link, it looks like the WWF has withdrawn the North American Pika from their list of botherer mammals.
The local paper was making a fuss about the pika up till the author of their alarmist study, Eric Beever, discovered that the little rabbits weren’t nearly as vulnerable to a half a degree of heat averaged over thirty years as the WWF led them to believe.
No follow up or admitting they were wrong mind you. They just dropped it.
Now Sinkers – don’t do the nana when you’ve just been exposed as a fabricator of bulldust. What was that Pikey said … Oh Pikey are you there …. Pikey ….
Goodness me, Birdie, you really do have delusions of grandeur, don’t you. You think your little donation to Greenpimp will totally negate the intellectual traction of this blog. They certainly sold you the whole scam, didn’t they. So would you like to buy a bridge? Or maybe sell some waterfront land to cut your climate losses?
What this highlights, once again, is the way the mind of your average green boofhead is so willing to give equal weight to an essentially symbolic or token gesture as it does to a whole body of relevant facts and detailed analysis. It is an underlying propensity for disproportionate responses. And that is the measure of both fools and unreasonable men and women.
We don’t hate green dullards, Birdie. That would only impair our judgement. We fear the consequences of the choices you promote and have zero confidence in your capacity to grasp all the relevant facts. We have well founded doubts about your capacity to reason and we have noted your incapacity to empathise with your fellow humans. And it is vitally important that we use terminology which accurately describes our lack of respect for your ethics and intellect.
There are few more dangerous mistakes than bestowing credibility on the village idiot.
“The biggest population of Albatross in the Southern Hemisphere once relied on Sydneys sewerage outfalls. But then they replaced them with deep ocean outfalls and decimated the species.” – Ian Mott
Crap. Longlining has decimated most species. Try another one and make it different from Lowe’s book, which you have clearly adapted for your own argument.
“Feel free to join the morons if you can’t understand it.”
You want Luke on your side now Louis?
“That would only impair our judgement. We fear the consequences of the choices you promote and have zero confidence in your capacity to grasp all the relevant facts. We have well founded doubts about your capacity to reason and we have noted your incapacity to empathise with your fellow humans. And it is vitally important that we use terminology which accurately describes our lack of respect for your ethics and intellect.”
Shit eh? You’ve finally seen that therapist and can admit to your many issues. Oh wait, you’re attributing your hysterical character flaws to Birdie. Back to the couch for you old man.
“There are few more dangerous mistakes than bestowing credibility on the village idiot.”
We don’t Ian! Do you think we are laughing at you for the health benefits?!
“intellectual traction of this blog” hahahahahahaha – good one Motty. What a card.
” ..incapacity to empathise with your fellow humans” – Motty
These days I’m not very keen on writing on Jen’s blog , but this classic from Motty is some of the worst crap that you hear from the sceptics / neocons and environmentalist-haters.
I just posted over some pics of some rare cranes in my neighbourhood to the greens in the Swedish Ornithological Society and got a reply from a guy , Mr M.D XX XXX , from Cancer Therapy Unit at the University Hospital Stockholm. Motty , please don’t use old tired clichees!
Thanks
Ann Novek,
when was the last time you or fellow enviros discussed, with intent to take action, what China is doing to the Falun Gong or Tibet or what the Islamic Radicals are doing in 40 separate countries…
Actually kuhnkat if you do a Google on Jen’s site you can see that I have at least at twice occasions mentioned human rights issues in China , and especially mentioned the atrocities against Falu Gong followers in Chinese labour camps…
And FYI I have worked in a hospital in Stockholm, the Löwenströmska Emergency Hospital , since I was 17 years old , in all kind of works , from washing potatoes when I was 17 to working in an emergency care unit and intensive care unit.
I have also worked in a home for old people and in a home for handicapped children.
And if that is not enough , I took part in manifestations against the Soviet occupation of Balticum every Monday in Stockholm during the 90’s!
Well KockheadKat as Jen has said on numerous occasions as important as these issues are those aspects are not the theme of this blog. But dipstick, more importantly, what ARE YOU doing on those issues?
Rob,
Might be worth checking the context of statements made here – but then I realise from the rest of your polemic that you are a Lukian. And thus a moron. Soory I repeat myself.
So Rob, are you contesting the veracity of Tim Lows statements about the impact of sydney sewerage disposal on the Albatross population? If so then state your case or shut your trap.
And spare us the totally unimaginative reponses that do nothing but try and reverse my statements to suit yourself. Most 11 year olds could do better than you have.
And Ann, what greens do for a job seems to have minimal bearing on their capacity to recognise or accept a human dimension to ecological issues. It is now standard MO in just about every environmental issue for greens to view the maximum exclusion of humans altogether as the only solution. They may well be very pleasent people to sit around a table with but only for as long as one never expects them to accept responsibility for the consequences of their policies and perspectives.
Swing the conversation round to ethics, duty of care or justice and equity and one soon discovers that these “nice” apparently good natured folk are quite “nasty, brutish and short-tempered” when confronted with the reality of their ideals. I know the green movement very well, having lived amongst them for years. Intolerance is never very far from the scene.
Ian Mott,
In the days of abundant Albatrosses, swimming at Bondi was avoided when a Nor-Easterly blew. All the Albatrosses in the universe could not have managed to intercept the flotsam before landfall.
Hi Luke,
I’m here Mate, but will only respond to reasoned argument.
However, I must say I admire your persistance in not so much holding up a point of view, or adhering to a philosphical argument, but rather ensuring that others rationally support their position.
You do so in a lackadaisical, often humorous style that I find entertaining and suspect has its roots in rural Australia.
Pikey.
As green boofheads go, I like Ann. There’s something inside. She has a hinderland, a back story. She’s alright.
There I said it.
“So Rob, are you contesting the veracity of Tim Lows statements about the impact of sydney sewerage disposal on the Albatross population? If so then state your case or shut your trap.”
Shit you’re stupid! Your statement was that albatross are in decline due to the deep ocean outfalls. You have totally ignored the real cause of the decline of these birds. Let me ask you, what does Tim Lowe do and study? Whilst his books and commentaries are suitable in reaching the general pubic who can’t be bothered or don’t have the intellect to look into deeper facts for themselves, his work has its fair share of criticism. Even Lowe would agree that the cause of the decline of albatross species is not the deep ocean outfalls but pressures such as longlining. But it would be too much for you to admit you’re are wrong wouldn’t it Ian?
You are the master of reversing statements to suit yourself Ian. Looking back over the archives thanks to Ann’s headsup it seems you have been mocked about this behaviour before. The perfect example you give to us now:
“Swing the conversation round to ethics, duty of care or justice and equity and one soon discovers that these “nice” apparently good natured folk are quite “nasty, brutish and short-tempered” when confronted with the reality of their ideals. I know the green movement very well, having lived amongst them for years. Intolerance is never very far from the scene.” What a crack up!!
And Ann, wastes of space like whatever cat are to be pitied. He obviously can’t care about multiple issues. What are you doing about human rights issues catshit? Spreading Toxo?
Gee aren’t you a charmer James? All style and no substance. Nothing inside. Enough to make you wanna stick around eh Ann?
“Shit you’re stupid!”
What an impressive remark.
Tim Lowe would have a few good ideas more than you though.
When you oppose a specific argument like Ian’s albatrosses, how about giving us some facts to go with your excrement.
Louis, even if you couldnt swim you went through the motions.
Yeah, Ann’s heart and soul are in the right place. But, like me, her mind wanders.
HAPPY EASTER TO ALL ! Check my own Easter Bunny!
“Tim Lowe would have a few good ideas more than you though.”
Your assuming is at least consistent with the rest of this blog.
“When you oppose a specific argument like Ian’s albatrosses, how about giving us some facts to go with your excrement.”
The excrement is deep ocean outfalls and providing folk like you who can’t be bothered looking info up for yourself and believe what the village idiot writes is pretty useless, however…
Modelling the impact of fishery bycatches on albatross populations http://www.jstor.org/pss/827291
Bycatches of albatrosses and other seabirds by Japanese long line fishing vessels in the Australian fishing zone from April 1992 to March 1995
http://www.publish.csiro.au/paper/MU97019.htm
The direct influence of fishing and fishery-related activities on non-target species in the Southern Ocean with particular emphasis on longline fishing and its impact on albatrosses and petrels – a review
http://www.springerlink.com/content/417y8ck3acrexy1j/
Seabird mortality in the Japanese tuna longline fishery around Australia, 1988-1995
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V5X-3TP5RMP-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=172212cc8bbd07aa954f2fa995f0f2da
Concern for Southern Ocean fish stocks and bird populations
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VCD-4GHSGW6-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=2c3a7c25360340e66a9f5bffb4bc27ad
When looking for references on sewage see- Age, sex and status of Wandering Albatrosses Diomedea exulans in Falkland Islands waters
“At least some, and possibly many, last-yearbreeders migrate
to eastern Australia via the Indian Ocean (Prince etal. 1998).
This is a traditional wintering ground but many fewer South
Georgia birds are retrapped there nowadays than in the late
1960s (Gibson 1963, 1973). This suggests that some
combination of the reduced attractiveness of Australian waters
(e.g. better treatment of sewage in the Sydney-Woollongong-
Malabar area) and increased attractiveness of the Patagonian
Shelf (e.g. more offal available from fishing operations by
trawlers and longliners (see Thompson 1992, Thompson &
Riddy 1995)) may have changed the distribution of adult
wandering albatrosses in their year between successive
breeding attempts.”
This does not suggest that the change in sewage treatment caused declines in Albatross but rather changes in distribution.
There are numerous papers looking at populations of Albatross species from different locations. These birds may nest in one area but visit Australian waters from late Autumn to Spring.
The SOSSA website also has good information
http://www.sossa-international.org/Pages/Projects/DiomedeaProject.htm
Again, it suggests there was a decline in visitation of Alabatross due to treatment changes, not a decline in overall populations-
“In 1970, following the commissioning of a treatment plant, the Malabar sewage no longer held any attraction and a decline in the number of great albatrosses visiting New South Wales followed. In the decade 1971-1980 it was still possible to annually encounter 200 individuals in July-August. In recent years, 40-50 is a more likely number. Not all of this decline is attributable to the sewer outfall treatment, but it had a significant effect.”
As a regular on winter sea bird trips off Sydney I can tell you that Black-browed, Shy, Buller’s, Wandering and Yellow-nosed Albatross are commonly seen, along with an impressive list of large and small petrel species, prions, skuas, terns, etc.
Notice how Rob has a complete article of faith that any and every bit of harm to Albatross MUST be caused by longliners? But if he had bothereed to read Tim Low’s “The New Nature”, and my own references to albatross he would have recognised that I was talking about a particular population of albatross in particular circumstances. It was not the actual sewerage outfall that spelt their doom but, rather, the discarded offal and waste from the Homebush abattoir that was included in the sewerage that the population of albatross thrived on.
The deep ocean outfalls diverted this resource (to the albatross at least) but as the abattoir was closed down to make way for the Sydney Olympic site, the population was headed for trouble any way.
The key point for readers to note is that the albatross example was provided as evidence that nature can benefit from human activities, just as the Krill and Blue Whales did from the oceanic algal bloom from iron deposition. Greenpimp, and our mouth frothing mate Rob, were completely incapable of recognising the possibility that this beneficial outcome could result.
This is a post about Greenpimp’s failure to grasp the basic ecological processes involved with geoengineered iron. And it is no surprise that the moment Greenpimp is mentioned adversely in a thread we get their resident spin mistress, Ann Novek, and some abusive rent-a-crowd, this time called Rob, trying to distract the thread and muddy the waters.
And the very fault that Greenpimp has been guilty of, ie, excluding all factors outside the appocalyptic narrative, was repeated by Rob with his insistence that albatross have only been subject to adverse impacts from man, and all of them from one particular source, longliners.
The irony of it all is that while there may be many marine birds killed by longliners, the abundance of birds of all kinds in attendance when fisher folk clean their catch and discard the by-catch, is powerful testimony to the fact that species all over the world also benefit from their interaction with fisher folk.
But neither Greenpimp, nor the green movement in general, would ever agree to a full and fair assessment of all benefits and adverse impacts. They are only there to measure the downside and are always off with the fairies when the upside kicks in. They are clearly in the one-eyed bull$hit business only.
“Your assuming is at least consistent with the rest of this blog.”
” folk like you who can’t be bothered looking info up for yourself and believe what the village idiot writes is pretty useless, ”
Making any assumptions here, Rob?
I’ve possibly been followed by more WAs in all sorts of weather than you’ve had hot dinners.
But thanks for your information.
” ….greens are shorttempered, brutish and nasty”- Ian Mott
Well, qualifications for working for Greenpeace requires( according to the job appliance) : “….clean, welldressed, stress tolerant and diplomatic”.
All greenies know that gulls like and spend time on garbage dumps Motty. The gulls also benefit from plowing the fields, searching for earth worms etc. Certainly they also benefit from fishing boats , if not caught by longliners….the longliners and albatrosses are a very interesting issue that Birdlife International covers very well….see the ” Save the Albatross” -campaign:
http://www.birdlife.org/action/campaigns/save_the_albatross/index.html
Ann,
Back in to late ’70s when I had a good head of steam, I used to sail out to the continental shelf into international waters to check the longliners and see what they were catching in the way of Wandering Albatrosses.
To me they’ve always been one of the worlds most impressive animals. Especially in a storm.
Drongo, do you have a clue if longline bycatch has increased or decreased? There are some methods out there for the fishermen to decrease bycatch:
Towing bird-scaring (or tori) lines behind the vessel. These have plastic streamers tied to them that flap in the wind and scare birds away from the baited fishing line.
Using an underwater setting tube. These set the fishing line underwater out of reach of the birds.
Tying enough weights to the fishing line so that it sinks more quickly out of reach of the birds.
Using thawed not frozen bait as it sinks more quickly.
dying the bait blue. This puts birds off eating it.
setting lines at night. Most albatrosses feed mainly by day.
BirdLife believes measures like these should be as routine
Sure S.D the albatross is one of my favourite animals too. I have a big pic of an albatross pair on my wall:)
LOL! Still at it Ian? I’ll repeat Shit you’re stupid! “It was not the actual sewerage outfall that spelt their doom but, rather, the discarded offal and waste from the Homebush abattoir that was included in the sewerage that the population of albatross thrived on.” Oh, now we’re getting more information? A particular population of albatross in particular cirmcumstances eh? Which “population Ian? Yo obviously paid no attention to what I posted, which just goes to illustrate a number of points.
I never made any comment about blue whales, again illustrating your inability to read.
“and some abusive rent-a-crowd, this time called Rob, trying to distract the thread and muddy the waters.”
You mentioned albatross and ocean outfalls and made a false claim from which you just can’t back down. So if someone wants to set you straight Ian, they are muddying the waters? Yes, all truth and facts here! Good to see what the real values are on this blog.
“And the very fault that Greenpimp has been guilty of, ie, excluding all factors outside the appocalyptic narrative, was repeated by Rob with his insistence that albatross have only been subject to adverse impacts from man, and all of them from one particular source, longliners.”
More stupidity. Nowhere did I say that the ONLY advese impacst came form man. You not only can’t read, you can’t comprehend. I actually wrote “Even Lowe would agree that the cause of the decline of albatross species is not the deep ocean outfalls but pressures such as longlining.” Such as longlining Ian. Implying there are other pressures too.
AS for continually mentioning Greenpimp, who I assume means Greenpeace (it’s a bit like deciphering babytalk with you), the post is about the WWF/World Wildlife Fund for Nature, so why you are insiting on bringing in a totally different organisation is beyond me. Muddying the waters?
“I’ve possibly been followed by more WAs in all sorts of weather than you’ve had hot dinners.”
More assumption? It’s as well you mentioned “possibly”.
“To me they’ve always been one of the worlds most impressive animals. Especially in a storm.”
Indeed, but I have always marvelled at the pertrels and prions. Animals so small and seemingly fragile which can bob and hover and dance of the crests of waves.
Ann when I was searching the above I did not get a clear picture of decrease or increase, but there are certainly methods to mitgate bycatch. I’m sure a source such as CAMLR, or something similar may have some information.
If you had half a brain, Rob, you would understand that I was writing my post as you were writing yours. Your post was at 1.53pm and mine was at 1.55pm. Your links all support my position with specific mention of benefits to the species from catch cleaning etc. I also note the detail and volume of research on Japanese longliners and the dearth of research on the compensating beneficial effects.
It was the lead article that mentioned Blue Whales, moron. And you seem intent on construeing statements by me that criticise imbalances in the research as if they were criticisms of something you might have said. Talk about rampant narcissism, you are not the navel of the universe, bogan. Get used to it.
Ann,
When I used to check them they were all using very hard to see nylon lines.
I would sometimes hook them with my keel and I’d often be asleep and be wakened by floats banging against the hull. That was the easiest way to find them but I also would see the fishermen on the horizon still laying out lines while I was checking the other end.
I believe now many are using more visible lines and it has made a difference.
Thanks for links and info Rob and Drongo. Where I live there ain’t no albatrosses but last year one was spotted off Norwegian coast by a fishing boat.
Ann,
I do know they make the wind blow.
“They all averred I killed the bird
That made the wind to blow”.
Back to the topic, however briefly.
The idea that a miniscule sized experiment like this could show some geo-engineering results is highly suspect. The fertilization of the oceans, from what I read of this experiment and others, however, did in fact do something very important: it increased the biomass of the ocean area fertilized.
In a world where food resources are under pressure, this is a good thing.
Imagine how fisheries could be improved if well managed fertilization programs were performed regularly. The fact is that life will sequester carbon, so for the AGW believers, this should be seen as a good thing.
If we can also eat some of the carbon sequestered as tasty sashimi, I think that should be seen as a win-win.
“Your links all support my position with specific mention of benefits to the species from catch cleaning etc. I also note the detail and volume of research on Japanese longliners and the dearth of research on the compensating beneficial effects.”
Really? I could not access all the full papers I provided links for, just the abstracts. I did not see specific mention of benefits in all of these. How interesting you can. Did you do a search for information on “compensating benefical effects”? I guess you did. I wonder why researchers would be more interested in understanding why wildlife is declining than what was “benefiting” it? What logic could that hold? There is research on provisioning of wildlife. Perhaps you could read what real and presumed benefits come from provisioning?
“It was the lead article that mentioned Blue Whales, moron.”
No shit Ian. You actually got that right. I made no mention of blue whales until you wrote: “The key point for readers to note is that the albatross example was provided as evidence that nature can benefit from human activities, just as the Krill and Blue Whales did from the oceanic algal bloom from iron deposition. Greenpimp, and our mouth frothing mate Rob, were completely incapable of recognising the possibility that this beneficial outcome could result.”
Did the blue whales and krill actually benefit Ian? I presume this has been measured and published somewhere. I would appreciate learning about this “benefit” you speak of. Oh wait, in the following sentence you mention the “possibility”. Please make up your mind, and not just to suit your story. I have not commented at all on any assumed benefits from the experiment on blue whales. I corrected an error you posted on albatross. So trying to imply I have been incapable of recognising something when I have not even disciussed it is as deliberately misleading and wrong as writing “was repeated by Rob with his insistence that albatross have only been subject to adverse impacts from man, and all of them from one particular source, longliners.” I have corrected this lie by you but any admission you are wrong is totally beyond your realm! You are doing a very poor job of trying to misprepresent what I write Ian, as well as Tim Lowe. I suggest you learn a bit more about topics instead of trying to be the self-imposed expert on everything and realise it is your navel you are looking at all the time.
Drongo,
small rhymes and poetry about birds and their songs are a culture treasory as well as a treasure about the natural world to our children….the Swedish Ornithologicla homepage has an entire site for different rhymes about birds and their songs etc….
” At sea, such soul birds include the storm petrel (Hydrobates pelagicus). Storm petrels, as their name suggests, were taken as a sign of approaching bad weather, so sailors saw them as helpful and considered it unlucky to shoot one. Moreover, into the nineteenth century, perhaps later, many seamen believed that petrels should be spared because they harbored dead sailors’ souls.
Seagulls (Laridae), too, warned of approaching storm. An extension of this was the belief that they cried before a disaster. As with petrels, in West European fishing communities it was thought unlucky to kill a gull; and, as with petrels, some said they embodied the souls of fishermen and sailors, especially those who had drowned. Belief in gulls as soul-birds was still active in coastal districts of Great Britain and Ireland up to at least the late nineteenth century
http://www.deathreference.com/Sh-Sy/Soul-Birds.html
And I have just had a rough talk with a poacher who said he was a protection hunter of barnacle geese and called the police for this….
” It is sometimes claimed that deep-sea sailors believed that the albatross brought bad weather and that killing one was unlucky because the souls of sailors reposed in them. However, these beliefs cannot be proved as existing before Samuel Taylor Coleridge’s “The Rime of the Ancient Mariner” (1798):
At length did cross an Albatross,
Through the fog it came;
As if it had been a Christian soul,
We hailed it in God’s name.
Coleridge is said to have based the mariner’s shooting of the albatross—an act that brought doom on his ship—on an episode in Shelvocke’s Voyages (1719). But in Voyages the bird was a black albatross, shot by someone who “imagin’d, from his colour, that it might be some ill omen.” Whether or not the superstition against shooting albatrosses generally began with Coleridge, it was never widespread: They were regularly shot at by ships’ crews, who, among other things, made their webbed feet into tobacco pouches. “
Ann,
What I love about the pelagic birds is their ability to survive with [seemingly] little comfort compared to what forrest and plain offer land birds.
They are so like sailors and fishermen, drawn to the ocean with the promise of easy riches.
When man thinks he is on the verge of oblivion in a severe storm, these birds, particularly the wandering albatross, just seem to say to him, “relax, nothing to worry about here”.
Albatross tobacco pouches sound interesting. I’m not sure there are easy riches for pelagic birds. Remember, they are using up the fuel they consume and have to travel vast distances to find it. Your sailors and fishermen have their food on board. But turn it around to a winter’s day of calm weather when your wanderer is plonked on the ocean’s surface like an oceanic dodo and you can hear the fishermen saying “relax, nothing to worry about here.”! It’s all relative.
Mmmmm…..might have a sailor’s soul at home right now!!!!
http://annimal.bloggsida.se/diverse/yesterday-evenings-patients
Becalmed sailor reassures albatross……..woman bites dog……
Happens all the time.
“Becalmed sailor reassures albatross……..woman bites dog……
Happens all the time.”
Not sure of what point you are trying to make and if you are being sarcastic about what I wrote. Please elaborate.
Nice photos on your site Ann. Good for you putting in so much hard work for those birds.
Thanks Rob, however the site is under construction so all stuff might disappear sometimes , but thanks again for the positive feedback…..actually hadn’t any clue what Drongo meant with his last statement as well;)
I suspect he couldn’t get his head around the concept and decided to be a jerk instead. Keep up the good work Ann and all the best with the blog.