94 Responses to Open Thread

  1. Larry Fields July 28, 2014 at 2:04 pm #

    The next big step in biotech?

    “Editing Life With Gene Drives is a Great Way to Play God

    Researchers develop a powerful new tool to manage wild ecosystems.

    Ronald Bailey | July 25, 2014

    Wouldn’t it be great if scientists could genetically engineer mosquitoes to be immune to the malaria parasite, thus protecting people from that disease? How about restoring the effectiveness of a pesticide by eliminating resistance genes in weeds and insect pests? Or altering genomes to eradicate a pesky invasive species? These are exactly the sorts of things that a brand new biotechnological tool could do, and it’s got some people worried. 

    Read more at reason.com.

  2. handjive of climatefraud.inc July 28, 2014 at 2:57 pm #

    I wanted to post these links in the last thread “Three Facts Most Sceptics Don’t Seem to Understand”, but ended up posting in jonova open thread.

    The above cartoon makes them relevant to this & last thread here @JM.

    First, the relevant ‘geologist’ cartoon quote:

    “This impasse is reminiscent of Lord Kelvin’s insistence that the earth is only about 100,000 years old based upon his calculations of the sun’s energy-producing capabilities.
    Geologists thought otherwise, requiring roughly a billion years for nature to sculpt the earth they saw.
    Kelvin didn’t reckon on nuclear energy, and the geologists had the last laugh!”

    http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf021/sf021p02.htm (source quote)
    ~ ~ ~
    It starts here:


    At above link is mentioned “Hueyatlaco: 250,000 Year Old Settlement In Mexico Found Under Volcanic Ash”

    . . .
    Newsworthy at this point is the armstrong evidence of science bullying, which harks back to last thread that AGW dogma is well established.

    Ms. J, I remember last year just before Xmas, and you wrote a post about how established the AGW dogma was.

    And then, we had “Ship of Fools” stuck in ice in antarctica.
    All involved admitted it was a blunder and major blow to credibility.
    Admittedly, the green monster lumbered on un-hurt.

    One fact is the stochastic of climate, and, for all the established AGW, this year, the ice is not doing what warmaholics predicted. Again.

    Big backdowns are coming:

    Enjoy the comment section with links.

    Also, in last JM thread, references were made to calendars.

    The Coligny Calendar

    Older calendars over long periods exist. Maybe they were just trying to catch up.

    To conclude:,digging up the past, whether 250,000 years or 2 billion years, there seems to be a message that what we seek is in the clues many have left in the one material that lasts. The rocks & stones, Geology.

    Extra something to think about:
    Article created on Thursday, June 26, 2014


    “Modern archaeo-astronomy encompasses many other research areas such as anthropology, ethno-astronomy and even educational research.
    It has stepped away from its speculative beginnings and placed itself solidly onto the foundation of statistical methods.
    However, this pure scientific approach has its own challenges that need to be overcome by embracing humanistic influences and putting the research into context with local cultures and landscape.”
    In response to this more cross-fertilized approach, some researchers are proposing to rename the field ‘Skyscape Archaeology‘.


  3. spangled drongo July 28, 2014 at 3:04 pm #

    Plate tectonics, the movers and the shakers.

  4. CARFAX July 28, 2014 at 6:35 pm #

    Pilkington-Smythe was sure that the fault was not within the Geology section.
    Little did he know that the climate scientists had restacked the evidence.

  5. Ian Thomson July 28, 2014 at 6:58 pm #


    The Sumerian Texts have views on the ” Unidentified Common Ancestor”
    Love it, have a beautiful cartoon to match, wish I could place it.

  6. Ian Thomson July 28, 2014 at 8:07 pm #

    Put the cartoon and link , on Jen’s Facebook page , under this post. Sorry Jennifer , if I am irreverent I just think it is the most important human history available and bugger “High Priest ‘

  7. Ian Thomson July 28, 2014 at 8:10 pm #

    Oh , I am not a religious believer in “Alien Intervention” either. Just think the current accepted stuff is unbelievable

  8. Otter (ClimateOtter on Twitter) July 28, 2014 at 8:23 pm #

    During my college years (degree in geology), it reached the point where one could look at Lasagna and say to themselves ‘stratification;…..

  9. Ian Thomson July 28, 2014 at 8:45 pm #

    Otter . Cool

  10. Don B July 29, 2014 at 10:09 am #

    It’s nobody’s fault.

  11. Don B July 29, 2014 at 10:17 am #

    Strata contains data.

  12. Larry Fields July 29, 2014 at 11:37 am #

    I have nothing to say about the cartoon. I’m completely igneous about geology.

  13. Beth Cooper July 29, 2014 at 12:10 pm #

    Igneous about geology, Larry? How metamorphic that must be for you.
    Beth the serf.

  14. Ian Thomson July 29, 2014 at 7:54 pm #

    How about “Sun Tax ” time ?

  15. jaycee July 29, 2014 at 9:41 pm #

    Regardless of the academic achievements or convoluted scientific discourse exhibited on these pages here..I have to marvel that as the “intellectual debate” aspires to greater and greater heights, so in equal proportion it seems, does the logic and reason base descend to lower and lower depths…there probably would be an equation to explain it!
    For instance..on this geology thing…Coming off the eastern face of the Mt. Lofty Ranges, are numerous “winter creeks” feeding onto the Murray Plains, into what was once a great system of wet-lands peppered with stands of Black Box / Swamp Box trees..If one was to stand on an advantageous point, it doesn’t take much imagination (are you still with me, people?) to envisage the once wide vista of swamps, lakes and endless bio-forest….Those creeks that feed onto this now open agricultural plain, once were regular running streams…I remember them from the fifties and you can tell from the geology…great thick middens of slivers of shale and slate with the edges rounded by irregular but consistent running water over a long period of time. If you walk into the bed ..yes, I did say WALK..of The Marne River, you will find large pebbled boulders that any geologist will tell you are created by a continuous heavy volume of running water…a volume of water that is now neither running nor voluminous!
    As a matter of fact, one could watch water in a good season running under the old railway bridge at Cambrai, only to find it has completely disappeared by the time one travels four or five kilometers down-stream….Water bores further down the river are too saline to give to horses, so have to be “shandied” or mains water replaced….the same as all over the district…as a matter of fact, by my reckoning, a huge percentage of springs and bores in this vast area from the eastern side of the ranges to the Murray River AND in some cases on the islands and banks of the river itself, are highly saline.
    Now this is where the lapse of logic on this blog comes in….So you tell me, if human intervention has stopped the regular flow of water from those creeks, has interfered in the ground water and aquifers all through the districts, has decimated the forests, lakes, springs and fauna of a vast area of Australian landscape….why do you not think or presume that an equal amount of damage has been done to the seas and atmosphere by anthropocentric intervention?…Can you really believe that such man-made intervention stops on the surface and is restricted only to the visible?..or is it more likely anthropocentric intervention has gone on for so long and so far as to, like in the landscape here, caused so much change as to affect the very structure of climate itself.
    Could it be a case of that old adage of ; “What the eye does not see, the heart does not grieve”?..and if I may extrapolate on that wise maxim..: “Perhaps the intellect cannot conceive?”

  16. sp July 30, 2014 at 12:55 am #

    Well JC:

    IF human intervention has stopped the regular flow of water from those creeks ……… – MAYBE
    IF human intervention has NOT stopped the regular flow of water from those creeks ……… – MAYBE NOT

  17. Larry Fields July 30, 2014 at 5:39 am #

    Ian Thomson July 29, 2014 at 7:54 pm #
    “How about “Sun Tax ” time ?”

    Most PV power in the USA would be uneconomical without big government subsidies. Now if we throw in a ‘Sun Tax’, what do we have?

    The goobermint giveth, and the goobermint taketh away.

    Another example: Tesla Motors, which manufactures high-end electric cars, is heavily subsidized. I few years ago, I remember reading that they were subjected to a 5-figure fine for failure to submit some irrelevant paperwork. Apparently the right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.

  18. sp July 30, 2014 at 9:09 am #

    Larry – I think they have, or intended to introduce, a Sun Tax in Spain – something to do with protecting existing feed-in tariffs.

  19. Debbie July 30, 2014 at 10:04 am #

    I think you need to brush up on your rhetoric Jaycee.
    The misanthropy is too noticeable.

  20. jaycee July 30, 2014 at 12:47 pm #

    Now, Debbie…You saw what Jen wrote at the heading of this thread…: “Please post something thoughtful or news-worthy”….Behave!

  21. bazza July 30, 2014 at 1:22 pm #

    caption : Did the earth move for you?

  22. Larry Fields July 30, 2014 at 2:54 pm #

    Whadayaknow? Locutus and the other local Borg have adapted to our new sheriff faster than I had expected. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

    Now where can I purchase one of those hi-tech monocles?

  23. jaycee July 30, 2014 at 3:15 pm #

    Now where can I purchase one of those hi-tech monocles?…….for the “one-eye Larry”.

  24. Debbie July 30, 2014 at 6:42 pm #

    I thought ‘misanthropy’ when I read your comment Jaycee and the moderator’s name is Ray. . .not Jaycee 🙂
    Hope that’s useful?

  25. jaycee July 30, 2014 at 7:20 pm #

    Now, Debbie…with three degrees under your belt , from three respected tertiary institutions….I’m sure you can come up with a more loquacious response to my post than a loose accusation…if you just give it a little thought and application…hmmm?

    Also, as an aside on Jennifer’s thoughts on removing the barrages at Goolwa to return the lower lakes to sea-water…I wonder if she has taken into consideration that Swan Reach, 80kms above the Murray mouth is only 75mm above sea level…surely removing the barrages would do much more damage and displace many more farmers if and when there was a tidal surge in times of drought, when all you scavengers on the upper reaches of the River pinch all our share of the water coming down!?

  26. Debbie July 30, 2014 at 7:36 pm #

    I’m the first to agree that SA has some problems.
    However. . .every update to water policy has always resulted in SA benefitting from more upstream storage space.
    Without human intervention, the lower reaches of the Murray has NO WATER. . .ZIPPO , NADA, NONE . . .in times of drought.
    Please get your facts straight Jaycee.
    The barrages & a large number of the lochs have gone way past their use by dates. . .and are hindering any development and/or improvement in SA agriculture. . .not helping.

  27. jaycee July 30, 2014 at 8:02 pm #

    Debbie..: “The barrages & a large number of the lochs have gone way past their use by dates. . .and are hindering any development and/or improvement in SA agriculture. . .not helping.”

    Please explain?

  28. sp July 30, 2014 at 9:33 pm #

    Dont do it Debbie………… never apologise, never explain!

  29. egg July 30, 2014 at 9:58 pm #

    Am I still banned?

  30. egg July 30, 2014 at 10:15 pm #

    Apparently not.

    I’m a blog refugee, having been persecuted and then banned from The Daily Trash, a supposed parody blog with eight commenters. More like an old men’s shed.

    Still, it was fun while it lasted. My obsession with weather and climate drove them mad, they all have their heads immersed in sand.

    The editor had given me many warnings to desist, casual bannings followed but I was resurrected when others in the office came to my defence.

    The other day was the last straw, a green leftoid began baiting me and waving the SS bible in my face, making outlandish statements, so I said global cooling is coming, are you ready?

    The editor didn’t appreciate the parody.

  31. Debbie July 31, 2014 at 12:30 am #

    I have explained Jaycee.
    To put it bluntly. . .even if SA had all the water in all the upstream storages. . .SA would still have problems & would still be complaining when we have drought conditions.
    SA needs to look at its own infrastructure, particularly the SE drainage works, the way the barrages function & some of the antiquated lochs.
    The SA allocation/entitlement for the Murray river has a much higher priority than moi. SA gets all its entitlement before broad acre irrigators in NSW get a drop.
    As I commented earlier. . .please get your facts straight.
    BTW. . .I sympathize and empathize with SA’s water woes. . .but I am completely over the nonsense you posted earlier.
    Don’t forget your earlier misanthropic comment.
    If it wasn’t for human intervention. . . there would be no barrages, no storage systems and therefore NO WATER for SA in drought sequences.. . NONE! NOTHING! Sea water would be in the lakes and the lower reaches in drought sequences.

  32. Larry Fields July 31, 2014 at 4:38 am #

    Hi egg,
    I haven’t seen you here before. If you’re a newbie, welcome.

    Unlike Warmist blogs, people with diverse opinions are free to speak their minds here. However Sheriff Ray, our new moderator and conductor on the train to Cyber Siberia, will see to it that a certain level of civility is maintained. I’m jake with that.

  33. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 8:33 am #

    Debbie..You have NOT explained anything….all we have are “motherhood” statements, hyperbole and accusation….Those barrages you so disparage ARE THE REASON there is a capacity even in low rainfall (not extreme drought) years that the farmers here can still maintain their properties…..you would deny them even that…and as for the “sea-water solution”, consider the agricultural and follow-on social destruction.
    So again….and I am sorry to push you on this, but please explain how the removing of the barrages and “lochs” could benefit or improve agricultural development in the lower reaches of the river.

  34. Debbie July 31, 2014 at 10:20 am #

    Not denying anyone anything Jaycee.
    Neither did I claim the barrages should be removed.
    I think SA needs some human intervention in SA.

  35. sp July 31, 2014 at 12:09 pm #

    Debbie – told you not to explain anything to Jaycee, he is not interested in your response!



    (report embedded in article):


    And on the same topic:



  36. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 12:50 pm #

    On the contrary, SP. , you cannot make a claim of “freedom of speech” and then hide behind a wall of denial and silence like some religious sect rather than a discussion board. We are all Australian citizens, regardless of political persuasion. It is high time those who would use a blog such as this to “shoot from the barricade” of Ms. Marohasy’s protection, without having the decency to explain their reasons or give an explanation of themselves…This system of waiting for Jennifer to post a thread starter than coming out with barely concealed accolades, smacks of the old ; ” seeking the oracle and worshipping the idol”…

    I come on here baring my soul and ideas, giving a personal opinion open to all sorts of mockery and abuse…and in some cases getting it!…all in the cause of enlightening the discussion board. Jennifer asked for interesting posts…I hope I obliged…now!…I proposed some realities…let us have some discussion on them..in polite discourse, rather than self-gratified denialism!……please.

  37. Debbie July 31, 2014 at 1:01 pm #

    So Jaycee?
    What do you think is the best way for SA to solve its water woes?

  38. sp July 31, 2014 at 1:32 pm #

    Jaycee – “I come on here baring my soul ” – Reminds me of the old joke:

    Q: Whats the difference between confession and taking a bath?

    A: After confession you have hope in your soul, after a bath you have soap in your h…

    I suspect you are in the bath working up a lather and expect everybody else to do likewise!

  39. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 3:01 pm #

    You are right about one thing SP. …it is an old “joke”…like back in the school yard…will you ever leave it, I ask?

    Debbie…The proposition you put forward was not one about water , but how getting rid of those “beyond their use-by date” locks and barrages could improve agriculture and development. I asked..: “Please explain”….now YOU ask ME a question….well, in the spirit of good-natured discussion, I will oblige.

    Here is an idea piece I sent to several people in my area and also sent to PIRSA. and the relevant state minister.

    Community Centralised Markets.

    Discussion Paper on Solutions for Sustainability of a Community.

    Listing the realities of farming in the Mid-Murray Council area..:

    a) That it is primarily an agricultural constituent…

    b) That the agriculture producers are mostly of generational owned small holdings..

    c) The imposts of market requirements, restrictions and pricing are more favoured to large holdings, large corporate agri-business and Managed Investment Scheme producers……

    The result being the development of a “perfect storm” of squeezed “family farms”, concentration of production to “outside interests” that export their produce, dumped excess commodities resulting in rock-bottom prices for produce and concentration of water allocation licences with corporate agri-business. The result could be a complete loss to the local community of independence in growth and supply of produce from family farming enterprises.

    Many might say..: “So what!..let the market decide.”…But it isn’t “the market” deciding…it’s “Fund – Managed” speculators with super capital, super credit and cross-border / cross-seasonal guarantees of profit margins protected against crop-failure by multi-location producers that, being so large and having the capacity to produce so much, they can control the wholesale price of produce by dumping or withdrawing commodities from a market that will eventually be reliant on their capacity….The smaller producer having neither the capacity, flexibility, nor the credit to “ride-out” long-term problems…add to the mix an uncertain climate, and we have that perfect storm mentioned above.

    What can we do?

    Those mega-producers deliver their products either interstate or ship to ports for export way outside this council area…so they are not affected by local fluctuations, yet do have capacity to affect the viability of local produce with the flow-on pricing control from their mega production capacity….it is the smaller, family owned farms that are at risk and perhaps we can do something there. It is a new idea, building NOT on a cooperative of producers, though they would be good…it is a “market-oriented” proposal that would require a contract between individual parties..no different than the usual “contract to supply” of many businesses…it would require the Mid-Murray Council to become an “investor in the constituency” to supply locations and under-cover premises where a regular, consistent, semi-permanent stalls (much like the Central Market) of local farmers could sell a huge variety of produce to local shoppers….produce such as vegetables, meats and fruit and even cereal grains in either bulk or packaged. Or ..there could be an emphasis on wholesale selling to many local country stores that would save transport time and costs for all parties while delivering fresh produce to local buyers on a more regular basis.

    Certainly, it is a bit of a BBQ. stopper….I believe we have the capability to do this… we have to think big…very big! We have quality growers of everything in the lines of veggies’ , meats, fruits and cereals…do we have the population of consumers to purchase? The population count of the Riverland area alone could add up to at least thirty or forty thousand people.. not all of them will shop at such a market, but ALL of them do eat!…If these “centralised” markets stayed open for say.. three consecutive days each, I would think they would be a goer…considering also the weekend tourist flows through the area..if council could obtain State or Federal monies to construct multi-purpose under-cover arenas with appropriate cold-store facilities…then it could be a goer…There would have to be at least four locations all operating simultaneously over three days, perhaps..one in Morgan, one in Blanchetown, one in Sedan and the other in Mannum….the multi-purpose arenas could be hired out on other days for other pursuits.

    Sure, this is a simplistic over-view of possibilities of de-centralising produce supply buying, that would involve cooperation and contractual certainties between council, growers and a willing-to-participate public….but what other choice is there? Just lay back and watch as all these hard-working, quality producing generational farms and families get squeezed out of the industry?… or do we affiliate and come together as a society and instead of ending up with a community that is depreciating and all our young people want to move away from, we become a community that is creating and not only do we get our young people to stay, but we attract more keen people to come to the area because they want to be a part of a growing community.

    What do you think?

  40. sp July 31, 2014 at 3:29 pm #

    Debbie asked Jaycee – “What do you think is the best way for SA to solve its water woes?”

    Jaycee responded by discusing anything and everything other than water?

    Am I missing somthing?

  41. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 3:54 pm #

    Yes, sp. : glasses!

  42. Debbie July 31, 2014 at 4:04 pm #

    Good grief Jaycee!
    Have you ever heard of concepts like ‘upgrade’ & ‘new technology’ & ‘ investment in infrastructure’ & etc?
    There is already such things as local markets & farmer’s cooperatives.
    Also. . .Don’t forget how much of Aust ag produce is destined for export.

  43. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 4:52 pm #

    ” Have you ever heard of concepts like ‘upgrade’ & ‘new technology’ & ‘ investment in infrastructure’ & etc?”

    Yes, Debbie, I have …since you seem to be savvy on these things, perhaps you can tell us how much it costs to set up just one pivot-irrigation system….presuming you already have a suitable water supply.

    Please..; list items , pump capacity and cost.

  44. egg July 31, 2014 at 5:20 pm #

    ‘I haven’t seen you here before. If you’re a newbie, welcome.’

    Thanks for the warm welcome, I’m not exactly new, but I’ll leave it at that.

    ‘…a certain level of civility is maintained. I’m jake with that.’

    Me too.

  45. sp July 31, 2014 at 5:24 pm #

    Why dont you tell us Jaycee? List the items, capacity and cost.

    And answer the water question while you are at it.

  46. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 6:01 pm #

    I am unaware that you; sp. are the spokesperson for Debbie!…but I do note, and note well that the first moment of posting of the spiteful blogger is devoted to self-congratulatory joy; but the second is diligently occupied by envy and calumny.

  47. jaycee July 31, 2014 at 6:06 pm #

    I think I’ll leave you with them, Jennifer…they are of your creation and you are responsible for them…good luck with that!

  48. sp July 31, 2014 at 8:27 pm #

    envy: a feeling of discontented or resentful longing aroused by someone else’s possessions, qualities, or luck
    calumny: the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander

    Jaycee, it is very difficult to be envoius of you, as for your reputation?

    Please list where false and defamatory statements have been made about you. Present examples.

  49. egg July 31, 2014 at 9:06 pm #

    “Strong minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, weak minds discuss people.”

    ― Socrates

  50. Johnathan Wilkes July 31, 2014 at 9:07 pm #


    Now that was a quaint idea, pity it’s a 1000 years out of date.

    Not even the communists advocated it.

  51. Debbie July 31, 2014 at 11:38 pm #

    Yes Jaycee.
    A lot of that stuff is been done by irrigators upstream. It is not cheap but it does pay in the longer term. In some cases us irrigators have given water entitlement to finance such projects.
    However by upgrades I was referring to the antiquated lochs. . . some serving little to no purpose. . .and the barrages. They are way past their use by dates.
    The major upgrades need to be done to the public infrastructure.

  52. egg August 1, 2014 at 1:13 pm #

    A blast from the past, the August winds have arrived on time.


  53. egg August 1, 2014 at 2:37 pm #

    Tropical cyclone activity lowest in living memory, or even longer.


  54. sp August 1, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

    Environmentalism: ‘Green’ versus ‘Good’ (in search of real environmentalism):


  55. egg August 1, 2014 at 4:22 pm #

    Correlation does not imply causation, but it might be a clue to Gaia’s mechanism in relation to global cooling.

    ‘TC activity is at its lowest level since the year 500AD in Western Australia and 1400AD in Queensland and this decline in activity has been most pronounced since about 1960AD.’

  56. egg August 1, 2014 at 6:40 pm #

    ‘Earlier this year the media were overflowing with reports about how a “super El Niño” was shaping up and that it could be a powerful one, so powerful in fact that it would make 2015 “very likely to become the hottest year on record by far.” Read for example posts by noted climate end-of-world theorists/cheerleaders Joe Romm, Andrew Freedman, Stefan Rahmstorf, Live Science…’

    – See more at: http://notrickszone.com/2014/08/01/climate-false-alarmism-reaches-new-high-australian-met-institute-confirms-little-chance-of-an-el-nino-in-2014/#sthash.Qpmf5bb9.dpuf

  57. egg August 1, 2014 at 6:46 pm #

    Uproar as China snaps-up the land of the long white cloud.


  58. egg August 2, 2014 at 5:39 pm #

    ‘NASA has been testing new space travel technologies throughout its entire history, but the results of its latest experiment may be the most exciting yet — if they hold up. Earlier this week at a conference in Cleveland, Ohio, scientists with NASA’s Eagleworks Laboratories in Houston, Texas, presented a paper indicating they had achieved a small amount of thrust from a container that had no traditional fuels, only microwaves, bouncing around inside it. If the results can be replicated reliably and scaled up — and that’s a big “if,” since NASA only produced them on a very small scale over a two-day period — they could ultimately result in ultra-light weight, ultra fast spacecraft that could carry humans to Mars in weeks instead of months, and to the nearest star system outside our own (Proxima Centurai) in just about 30 years.’

    Rest here: http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/1/5959637/nasa-cannae-drive-tests-have-promising-results

  59. egg August 2, 2014 at 6:25 pm #

    Klimatariat Experiences Divergence Problems


  60. spangled drongo August 3, 2014 at 11:17 am #

    Egg, I am just departing on my annual motorless Sandy Straits cruise under sail and that link to the winds is a good one and bodes well.

    Just hope it doesn’t rain too much. ☺

  61. egg August 3, 2014 at 11:40 am #

    I wish you well, spangles. Any idea what happened to Luke?

    In other nooze…

    Data Tampering Drives CO2


  62. Toby August 3, 2014 at 12:10 pm #

    sadly he has been banned Egg,

    thx for your interesting links.

    Here is one you may enjoy from one of the wittiest commentators around

  63. egg August 3, 2014 at 12:34 pm #

    ‘sadly he has been banned Egg’

    Yes, it seems like only yesterday when comrade Luke and me stood shoulder to shoulder against a common enemy, the despised Deltoidians.

    I could say more but ….

  64. Larry Fields August 3, 2014 at 2:46 pm #

    egg August 2, 2014 at 5:39 pm #
    ” . . . Earlier this week at a conference in Cleveland, Ohio, scientists with NASA’s Eagleworks Laboratories in Houston, Texas, presented a paper indicating they had achieved a small amount of thrust from a container that had no traditional fuels, only microwaves, bouncing around inside it.”

    There’s an obvious POTENTIAL fly in the ointment. Since I wasn’t there, I don’t know if NASA tested for it. Anyway, the inside of the ‘engine’ could have had a layer of microwave-absorbing material at the flat end, and microwave-reflecting material everywhere else on the inside. This would cause the outer surface of the flat end to be hotter than the rest of the outer surface.

    The upshot: The difference in IR photon emission intensity could produce a minuscule amount of thrust. A photon does have a very small amount of momentum. Sorry, no violation of any conservation law, and no new physics. There’s nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

    The inventor could have achieved a QUALITATIVELY similar result with an ordinary flashlight. But that wouldn’t be as sexy, would it?

  65. egg August 3, 2014 at 6:30 pm #

    Higgs boson maybe our best chance to reach light speed, but I won’t hold my breath.

  66. Johnathan Wilkes August 3, 2014 at 7:16 pm #


    As the good captain used to tell Jones, “now you are in the realm of phantasy”

  67. egg August 3, 2014 at 8:58 pm #

    At this stage its still science fiction.

  68. sp August 4, 2014 at 1:12 am #

    Ian Plimer said:

    “I don’t really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.”


    And Skeptikal Science says:

    “The Mount Pinatubo eruption emitted 42 million tonnes of CO2 (Gerlach et al 1996). Compare this to human emissions in 1991: 23 billion tonnes of CO2 (CDIAC). The strongest eruption over the last half-century amounted to 0.2% of human CO2 emissions in that year.”


    Who is right?

  69. Johnathan Wilkes August 4, 2014 at 8:16 am #


    “Who is right?”

    This is what gets me too, I don’t say anyone is deliberately lying, others may say that, but it’s really hard to sort out the truth

  70. Neville August 4, 2014 at 8:38 am #

    Here’s a good post on human co2 emissions since 1965 and the graphs alone show the stupidity of OZ or the OECD trying to “take action on CC.” That’s if the theory of CAGW is correct anyway.
    And don’t forget the really big emitters China, India etc have up to another billion people to drag out of extreme poverty. Time to wake up because there is zip the first world can do about the increase in future co2 emissions at all.


  71. egg August 4, 2014 at 12:14 pm #

    ‘I don’t say anyone is deliberately lying’

    Its possible to distort facts and bend the truth to suit a particular meme. The sin of omission is what works best and its easy to see it in the Guardian, Fairfax and ABC.

    ‘but it’s really hard to sort out the truth’

    Remain sceptical, read widely and form your own opinion. Its important to question yourself and eliminate bias from the equation.

    The science is complex, so splitting hairs will continue until my client Carbon Dioxide is exonerated and allowed to roam free.

  72. sp August 4, 2014 at 12:32 pm #

    Perhaps the answer is that GREENHOUSE GASES comprise more than CO2.

    My sense of it is that skepticalscience did not tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

    I could be wrong.

  73. egg August 4, 2014 at 1:48 pm #

    ‘I could be wrong.’

    The SS bible is flawed, so you’re safe in my book.

  74. sp August 4, 2014 at 3:01 pm #

    Milne also had a message for ‘all those people partying around the corridors’:

    “Enjoy it because it is your last stand. The fact is you have misjudged the temperature … When we look at the temperature of the planet rising, let us look at the climate science. The fact of the matter is we are on track for four to six degrees of warming. That means people will not survive. Part of the world will be uninhabitable. There will be one million deaths per week for the next 90 years if it gets to 4 degrees.”


  75. egg August 4, 2014 at 3:09 pm #

    Good catch, I’ll take it about.

  76. Neville August 5, 2014 at 8:15 am #

    Once again Fairfax tells deliberate porkies to try and raise even more alarm. Of course the latest studies tell us that the climate of the Vanuatu area was much more extreme hundreds of years ago than today.
    As Bolt points out this takes about 5 minutes on google to find the correct info. Yet people still read and listen to these stupid people. And many more stupid people even believe these fools as well. Why care about the facts?


  77. Neville August 5, 2014 at 8:35 am #

    Just another reason to doubt so called global warming. A new study has found that the SH lagged behind the NH warming after the end of the last glacial. This lag time amounted to many thousands of years. Just another reason that humans reducing co2 levels will have zip impact on the climate for thousands of years.
    CAGW mitigation is the greatest Ponzi scheme and fraud ever.


  78. Neville August 5, 2014 at 10:52 am #

    Bob Tisdale debunks more of the Risbey et al study. More of Luke’s so called PR study failures.


  79. egg August 5, 2014 at 11:06 am #

    Southern ocean ice appears to be connected to the shiny orb.


  80. Neville August 5, 2014 at 4:23 pm #

    Lomborg gave his testimony to the USA senate a few days ago and once again we can easily understand the fraudulent nature of so called CAGW mitigation. Here is his quote about the impact of Kyoto if every country on the planet had signed up straight away.

    “The Kyoto approach is not working for three reasons. First, cutting CO2 is costly. Second, the approach won’t solve the problem. Even if everyone had implemented Kyoto, temperatures would have dropped by the end of the century by a miniscule 0.004C or 0.007F. Third, green energy is not ready to take over from fossil fuels.”

    Will these fools ever wake up to their idiocy?


  81. Neville August 6, 2014 at 10:42 am #

    It looks like Japan has recovered it’s brain power and will again consider nuclear power to help produce their future energy needs. Good for them, I only wish OZ could build at least ONE new, safe nuclear power station and plan for more.
    Feed in tariffs for solar were set far too high and are now being scaled back.


  82. Neville August 6, 2014 at 10:53 am #

    The alarmists were very gung ho in June and yapped about a 90% confidence in an el nino before the end of the year. This has now been reduced to 50% and I guess time will tell the tale.


  83. egg August 6, 2014 at 3:55 pm #

    Nuclear power has no future in Australia because of the abundance of cheap coal.

    And its funny how the warmists were praying for a strong El Nino when everyone knows its independent of AGW and gets its instructions from the sun.

  84. Neville August 6, 2014 at 4:35 pm #

    Egg I have to agree about cheap coal and I think a nuke stn couldn’t be built before 2034 at least. But isn’t it amazing how both sides of politics bust a gut to sell as much coal as they can to every other country but still want to mess about with useless , clueless, unreliable S&W for our own use in OZ?

  85. Robert August 6, 2014 at 4:49 pm #

    I do get a little hurt when people say “cheap” coal. Couldn’t you say “thrifty” or “economical”?

    I know what you guys mean, and I know we share the love…but our Sydney-Gunnedah basin yields the absolute top Permian black. Imagine if we started cooking it in the latest model plants. How good would that be!

    To think we had a national leader who called our most valuable resource “durrrrdy”. Whatever happened to her? Last seen on a punt to South Australia, they say.

  86. Neville August 6, 2014 at 7:49 pm #

    Robert that same silly woman had her resources minister (Ferguson) state in 2012 that Vic brown coal could be modified and exported.

    http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/pilbara-plan-for-victoria-20120418-1x7ox.html That same filthy coal could turn the Latrobe valley into another Pilbara. And that would be huge. So too filthy to be used by us to produce more industry and jobs here but just dandy to give that benefit to other countries overseas.
    We had the dumbest mob of whackos governing us that you could imagine.

  87. egg August 6, 2014 at 8:56 pm #

    Severe drought in south-west China not blamed on human induced global warming.


  88. egg August 6, 2014 at 9:36 pm #

    Evidence puts Sol in Frame


  89. Neville August 7, 2014 at 8:23 am #

    Another new 2014 SL study finds no difference in the rate of SLR between the 20th century and the 1970 to 2008 period.


    The 20th century rate of SLR was 1.9mm per year and the later 1970 to 2008 period was 1.8mm per year.

  90. Neville August 7, 2014 at 8:46 am #

    Just thought I’d link to the IEA energy pie chart for Australia in 2011.


    This shows that OZ only derived 0.7% of our energy from geothermal+ solar+ wind in 2011.
    Of course Luke and bazza thinks this is good value for money after wasting all those billions $ down the drain for nix change to the climate for thousands of years.

  91. Neville August 7, 2014 at 10:57 am #

    After wasting tens of billions $ on stupid solar and wind energy Germany only produced ( 2011) 2,2% of their energy from geo thermal, solar and wind. And stuffed up their grid as well.
    Lomborg told the USA senate last week Germany will now build 10 more CF plants in the next two years. So if s&w worked why wouldn’t you just keep building more of them? DUH?


  92. egg August 7, 2014 at 8:00 pm #

    The SLR story caught my interest, sea level rising slowing, but I’m more curious about the Antarctic and Arctic numbers.

    Why is it so?

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