“HOT, unseasonal weather has pushed temperatures into the 30’s and close to 40 degrees in parts of Queensland, smashing records.
“The hot weather was felt right across the state on Saturday… as the mercury soared up to 14 degrees above average…”
So I’m off to Keppel Island tomorrow.
Meanwhile, some claim it’s going to be a warmer than usual year across the globe with an El Nino now forecast.
“If El Nino continues to strengthen as projected, expect more (high temperature) records to fall,” said Thomas Karl, who’s the director of the National Climatic Data Center in Asheville.
“At least half of the years after 2009 will be warmer than 1998, the warmest year currently on record,” predicted Jeff Knight, a climate variability expert at the Hadley Centre in England.
“John Christy, the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, who often sides with the skeptics, agreed that the recent cooling won’t last.”
*****************
Notes and Links
Hot weather in Queensland shatters records
Martin Palmer, Saturday August 22, 2009 – 17:11 EST. http://www.weatherzone.com.au/news/hot-weather-in-queensland-shatters-records/12493
Drop in world temperatures fuels global warming debate. By Robert S. Boyd | McClatchy Newspapers. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/74019.html
Keppel Island: http://www.greatkeppel.com.au/
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
Jennifer: As to whether this or the next El Nino will smash global temperature records I have a post at http://climatechange1.wordpress.com/ that may be of interest to your readers
It’s just weather, not climate.
“At least half of the years after 2009 will be warmer than 1998, the warmest year currently on record,” predicted Jeff Knight, a climate variability expert at the Hadley Centre in England.
“John Christy, the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, who often sides with the skeptics, agreed that the recent cooling won’t last.”
I won’t be surprised by the possibility of warmer years ahead because the natural trend is towards a warmhouse, following the alternation of cold and warm periods which happens in our planet. The minimum phase of the most recent icehouse occurred ~18000 years ago and the icehouse period started approximately 40 million years ago, with occasional increases of temperature that could have been mistaken for the end of the icehouse period; of course, they were only brief warming periods.
At present, the Earth is undergoing the opening of a warmhouse period, so it won’t be out of the ordinary that the Earth’s temperatures continue rising until resembling the Holocene Optimum’s magnitudes. During the evolution of the current warmhouse, we could have periods of cooling that would seem small glaciations, similar to the LIA; however, those cooling periods would not be so prolonged or severe. I like the cold, but nature is nature and we cannot do much for stopping its ways.
Thus, John Christy is right on considering this cooling like a very brief period. He has not forcibly to bend over AGW pseudoscience for describing natural processes.
The point to remember (and I’m almost sure Dr. Christy remembers it) is that the contribution of human activities to the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide is by a factor of 0.05. Another important thing is to consider that carbon dioxide increases hundreds of years after increases of temperature happen; AGW is logical fallacy or, better described, an irrefutable hypothesis. 🙂
Besides, Ron de Haan is right in reference to Queensland temperature records:
“It’s just weather, not climate“.
By the way, I was talking on climate, not weather.
No indication of a trend. I have experienced a T shirt August, which I thought indicated an early summer, followed by a Jumper September. We have now had 4 unusually warm August days of around 30C. Lets see what September brings, then Oct, etc.
No trends for denialist scum who never look at the data – but it is just the trend point in shorter winters, reducing frosts in NE Australia observed by those with good memories.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/environ/frosts.shtml
BTW didn’t Birdbrain say here the other day we WERE in an ice age and none of the denialist scum said boo.
It’s hard to imagine that Quilpie’s records only began in 1957 and Mitchell’s in 1970.
Quilpie was settled in 1874 by the Duracks, Costellos and Tullys and Mitchell probably earlier.
I know some of the Tully family [they’re still out there] and I’ll bet they can tell it a bit differently.
I’m sure that many of the old records were discarded because of their inconvenient truths.
Luke,
Meet Diane. I’m sure you have a lot in common.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/22/diane-feinstein-turbidity-denier/
Yes, it is just weather.
It is always just weather, except for AGW promoters. They have invented something new and scary.
Luke, we are in an ice age.
We are in a minimal ice period of the ice age:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age
Those scummy wikipedia authors are such well know denialists.
And here is that den of denialism, Nova:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ice/chill.html
“During the present ice age, glaciers have advanced and retreated over 20 times, often blanketing North America with ice.”
Please feeding us straight lines. You play the fool quite well.
And here is a documentary that is jsut right for the kind of science you true believers are into:
http://www.iceagemovie.com/
OK so Hunter says we’re in an ice age too.
“Luke, we are in an ice age.” And you know exactly what Birdy meant – soon and now !
When best science puts it 50,000 years away.
Just step right up folks and endorse the position. Any lack of rebuttal (Coho !?) I will take as tacit approval of your denialist mates.
Well Diane might be smarter than a Drongo – gee Spangly Dangly – what basic parameter is highly influential in biological reactions – especially in water bodies – might it be … finge ron lips … don’t tell me …. is it …..temperature. Yes that little factor that really gets microbes and chemical reactions rocking. You clown.
And BTW thanks for playing – I just realised what a stinking con-artistry surfacestations.org is. “That station” is actually in a not too bad environment. I say “not too bad” – far from perfect – the enclosure is messy – but the area is LAWN and surrounds by lawn. The “trash burner” is obviously just stored there – not used. Perhaps being that close to the Lake (which Wattsy failed to show when previously ranting) is making it read too cold if anything.
So thanks for playing Spanglers – and shooting yourself thoroughly in both feet. Thanks for also exposing Wattsup’s utter bullshit tactics. What denialist scum you all are.
Black hearts. Pure evil.
Luke,
Have you thought of setting up your own anonymous blog to vent your spleen over us denialist scum or do your prefer to live the life of a parasite and infest other people’s blogs with your bad manners and foul invective.
On the other hand, don’t – you might find yourself being sued for slander as one anonymous blogger was in the US recently.
Luke,
That iceage movie is perfect for you.
I hope you enjoy it.
I don’t follow Birdy. You are too much fun.
You feed me so many straight lines, why do much else?
It is not trivial that we are in an ice age. Your shrugging it off tells much about your bureaucratic ensemble attempt at group think.
As to trashing surface station.org, it is easy for a snarky bunch of neverwuzzer fat bureaucrats like y’all to flail around trying to put down people who actually do something. If- big if- you found a station that is well sited in their index, does that mean the many they found not well sited actually are?
And if the standard for tossing out great piles of work is to find a problem in it, then certainly the same should apply to the mountains of rubbish hiding the pebbles of truth that comprises AGW theory?
Louis,
No one would bother to sue Luke. That would be like declaring war over a mite bite.
Hunter,
I think Luke must have destroyed another keyboard – or this time he is speechless from enhanced apoplexy – 🙂 Amazing he and SJT haven’t collaborated in a blog – the two seem to work in the same place – QLD climate department or something. Long Paddock or some other bizarre QLD institution. That’s my guess based on reading their delightful prose over the years.
Spare us the smoke and bulldust Sinkers – are we in an Ice Age or not?
And what a waste of time surfacestations has turned out to be Hunter – if you only use their chosen stations you get the same answer. What does Sinkers think have to say about that? Nothing – about as weak as that electric universe/climate connection we’re all waiting for ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_0-gX7aUKk at aboyt 3:50″ blows the lid on you lot !
Any electric universe/ climate papers yet Sinkers or still hand waving ?
Luke,
With an attitude like that it’s a wonder anyone answers anything you ask here. We re still getting out of the Little Ice Age and as we have not yet reached temperatures previously attained before the LIA, we are therefore, in a strictly technical sense, still at the tail end of an “ice age”.
I have no idea what you are blathering on about concerning surfacestations so it’s easy not to say anything.
I’ve had an article published twice, both by invitation.
So according to Sinkers we’re still in an Ice Age – any supporters?
As for surfacestations – what sort of sceptic are you? Did you watch the video?
oooo – so you had an “article” published twice – do we care? Is this relevant?
@ Luke
The present era is known as an “Interglacial”, in other words a small warm period of roughly 10.000 years in length between longer cold periods of about 100.000 years.
By definition an Interglacial can only exist in a glacial period – ergo the last million years have been in an ice-age.
PS During the last interglacial 125000 years ago the temperature in Greenland is believed to have been 5 – 8 degrees higher than today – and there was still ice.
Luke,
You asked whether I had anything published on electric universe/climate, so I replied with the facts. You now find this inconvenient?
I don’t watch videos you link here on the reasonable grounds that they are probably crap, and for the same reason I do not watch movies the critics rave about since experience tells me that those are crap as well. This policy thus saves much time.
So Sinkers – you don’t have anything do you. I did not ask if YOU had anything published. Was “in general” in “journals of standing”. That’s not the journal of ratbaggery and scalawags.
You know the moment Sinkers starts blathering he’s out of ammo.
The said movie addressed one of your denialist icons main issues. Oh well – stay uninformed – so much the better.
Dear “The Engineer” – yes of course. But would you normally say – “we’re currently in an ice age” as an apt descriptor of our present situation. Or we’re in a bone-crushing ice age – G Bird pers comms – this blog.
Luke
“Any electric universe/ climate papers yet Sinkers or still hand waving ?”
So “So Sinkers – you don’t have anything do you. I did not ask if YOU had anything published. Was “in general” in “journals of standing”. That’s not the journal of ratbaggery and scalawags.” is a demonstration of your illiteracy? I must admit to the grave inability of not having any skills in comprehending “white spaces” between words and phrases, since sentences and paragraphs remain a challenge for you.
Good heavens man, if you can’t express yourself concisely so as to impart an unambiguous impression, then perhaps it might be better for you to remain silent.
We all live in forlorn hope on that possibility ever occurring.
From the lengths of record mentioned at weatherzone, thermometers must be a very recent introduction to western Queensland, and have arrived well after raingauges.
Primaries “Rainfall in Queensland” 1957 gives the following initial recording years for rainfall:-
Mitchell 1884
Quilpie 1917
Taroom 1870
So Sinkers – you don’t have anything do you ? Come on – admit it..
Ian Beale – they’re there but not computerised. In the Australian archives.
Luke,
au contraire – you have nothing, hence the incessant ad hom’s towards me.
luke
“they’re there but not computerised”
Why? Just asking, are they not important enough or what other reason is there?
I mean for a data entry person it shouldn’t take that long to do.
As engineer says, we are in an interglacial which is quite similar to previous interglacials;
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Ice_Age_Temperature.png
As to whether El Nino is starting to redominate, the SOI has only been negative since May with a slight positive in July;
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/soihtm1.shtml
August’s SOI figure will tell a story especially since, despite Vecchi and Soden’s declarations, the Walker circulation is not weakening.
Marcus: “they’re there but not computerised”.
So how were the non digitally coded data used in the digital reconstructions then?
This should be directed to his Lukiness but manners prevents me from being too crass in this instance.
I find it perplexing that so much debate exists over El Nino and La Nina when we don’t understand the basic physical cause of either of the effects, El Nino when it’s hotter than normal, and La Nina when it’s colder.
It certainly can’t be dignified by the label science.
So what is the direct physical cause of the El Nino and La Nina effects?
Well Marcus – you’d think it would be simple but it ain’t. The bulk of the pre-1957 climate data (except rainfall) are now in the Australian archives not BoM’s. A project to data punch a few stations in the 1990s cost a fair bit of money. Special gloves, special permission and dual punching required for checking. http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/how/climarc.shtml Hate to say how many much that cost.
Louis – you said that there is plenty of evidence of various forms of electromagnetic phenomena (e.g. Birkeland Currents) and their connection to climate. You repeatedly make these claims yet do not substantiate them in the slightest. Is my question therefore that unreasonable?
So – as the song didn’t quite put it –
“A record’s not really a record till you know the answer too”
Not knowing any better I take your word for it Luke, although I can’t understand that while a 2 thousand years old papyrus fragment can be scanned-photographed and viewed world wide, but a mere 2 hundred years old exercise book cannot.
But, there you go.
Luke
“Louis – you said that there is plenty of evidence of various forms of electromagnetic phenomena (e.g. Birkeland Currents) and their connection to climate. You repeatedly make these claims yet do not substantiate them in the slightest. Is my question therefore that unreasonable?”
Evidence please for starters, and your question was never framed in those terms either, so you have some homework to do, apart from distracting readers here with a feint to avoid answering Ian Beale’s or Marcus’ questions.
Luke
And climate is an intellectual abstraction of weather over an arbitrary period of time – I can only comment on weather, a distinctly physical phenomenon.
“So what is the direct physical cause of the El Nino and La Nina effects?”
Louis; the direct physical cause, I wouldn’t know but there are some very healthy direct physical correlations as David Stockwell’s paper shows;
http://arxiv.org/abs/0907.1650
This correlation has a strong radiative basis as the Sun and Yu paper shows;
http://www.atmos.ucla.edu/~sun/doc/Sun_Yu_JCL_2009.pdf
This radiative basis is substantiated by the recent Douglass and Knox paper showing a strong link with OHC and TOA radiative imbalance and the recent Lindzen paper on the latest ERBE results, which incidentally support Miskolczi’s theory.
Marcus – I agree it’s poor. But prioritisation for fundamentals isn’t there. So pre-1957 you have daily rainfall computerised but only monthly statistics collation of most other variables. ClimARC project made some improvement.
Coho could do us all a national favour by getting climate sceptics Pty Ltd to get the other data punched. Surely Coho could get Exxon to pay for it ? LOLZ !
“If it ain’t computerised – it effectively doesn’t exist”.
Marcus – it’s simply $$$$
Of course you always have to punch data into sceptics more than once. Hahahahahahaha …
Maybe there is no beginning and end for El Ninos and La Ninas or is it Los Ninos and Las Ninas? I always worry. Perhaps for the theologically challenged – El Viejo – the Old Man would be better?
Anyway – perhaps they’re just oscillators with no beginning or end. Sort of like Louis’s brain.
Hey Coho – when will the sceptics show faith and do an Aussie version of surfacestations.org – deaddingos_stations.org ?? Serious – would get you guys out into the real world.
“deaddingos”;
Already done;
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1492
John Christy actually said
“John Christy, the director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, who often sides with the skeptics, agreed that the recent cooling won’t last.
“The atmosphere is just now feeling the bump in tropical Pacific temperatures related to El Nino,” Christy said in an e-mail. As a result, July experienced “the largest one-month jump in our 31-year record of global satellite temperatures. We should see a warmer 2009-2010 due to El Nino.”
Christy added, however: “Our ignorance of the climate system is still enormous, and our policy makers need to know that . . . We really don’t know much about what causes multi-year changes like this.”
Luke,
You keep handing off straight lines.
If you actually had anything, you would have posted the link to it.
Here is the link to surfacestations.org:
http://www.surfacestations.org/
Note their goal- audit *every* surface station. Note that they are >80% done.
Note their grading system. Not as you implied.
Note their standards: Application of government specs. Note their midterm report.
Note their transparency: complete.
None of that would be familiar to a self-declared pile of geniuses like the Luke ensemble.
But you do seem well practiced at dissembling, distraction, and posing.
I guess it was much easier for you government types to lie in the pre-google age.
AGW is a social movement promoting fear over thought, hyperbole over fact, and faith over reason.
As Luke so aptly demonstrates in each and every post.
Luke, I now realize why you depended on a verbal smear of Watts and surfacestation.org to support your snark.
I found the photo you were referring to in the article about Lake Tahoe:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/08/22/diane-feinstein-turbidity-denier/#more-10160
Surely one member of your ensemble would realize that having a black steel barrel, and other metallic debris in the ~2 meter range of distance would offer a distortion to the temp sensor?
And you claim it is clearly only stored there. What is your documentation for that conclusion?
And, since the tennis court is at an out-spec-minimum distance away, perhaps that would be significant as well?
Or is it your communal conclusion that in fact that sort of temperature sensor location offers reliable data?
“Dear “The Engineer” – yes of course. But would you normally say – “we’re currently in an ice age” as an apt descriptor of our present situation.”
@Luke
Two simple facts: The northern part of Jutland in Denmark (plus bits of Sweden) are rising some 10 – 15 mm/year. The reason is the lack of glacial ice which disappeared about 10.000 years ago. Ocean temperatures rise, and about 800 -1000 years later CO2 levels rise.
The fact that the weather was warm between 1975 and 1998 does not prove AGW, it proves nothing.
Hunter 12:14am – what an amazing litany of silliness. Surfacestations adds nothing Hunter – watch the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_0-gX7aUKk at about 3:50
Hunter 1:55am – pretty basic Hunter – the pallet isn’t burnt to pieces. It’s to stop the burner rusting in contact with the earth. Are you really that moronic. Wattsy is pulling your chain. Being so close to that huge lake would give the station a bias reading if anything. As I said Huntsbum – far from perfect but deceptive as the full shot photo isn’t the photochild trotted out for tsk tsk tsk opportunities. In any case merely one snippet of data –
-you’ve failed to mention the latest research http://terc.ucdavis.edu/stateofthelake/StateOfTheLake2009.pdf
Dear “The Engineer”
“The reason is the lack of glacial ice which disappeared about 10.000 years ago. Ocean temperatures rise, and about 800 -1000 years later CO2 levels rise.” – what else would you expect??
I have a friend who teaches geology part time to first year students at UWA. The first thing she has to do is counter the high school brainwashing. Yes there is climate change, it has always changed and no, there’s nothing you can do about it.
She also says the Earth is currently in an ice age as there is ice at both poles at the same time.
An El Nino, if it occurs can certainly warm things for awhile. But this won’t reverse the overall cooling trend no matter what John Cristy has been browbeaten into saying. It won’t reverse the prior cooling trend anymore than other El Nino’s have altered longer trends. Or any more than CO2 peaks have lead to warming.
http://bp3.blogger.com/_cs-Bym6c2zU/RgbCXyTYkeI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/_3Z7hIGJo8s/s1600-h/beckgraph.gif
Here is the smooth graph of the CO2 record. Notice the great good fortune of CO2 levels much higher than today after the Napoleonic Wars and World War II. Whereas the post WWI levels were a disaster. We all got on with things after the other wars. But after WWI the four horsemen run amok.
These CO2 levels, much higher than today, didn’t lead to warming trends. Given that they were higher than today, and a lot higher for that matter, we need to demand what all this fuss is about.
Summer weather in winter. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
By my hasty count, Sinkers 20, Luke 21. But are we progressing in saving Australia, and indeed the world, from catastrophic climate change?
I have a proposal. Close down all Australian climate research, and switch Penny Wong to the Ministry for Gay Whales. Peter Garrett can be Minister for Midnight Oil. World climate research could then be concentrated in Hungary, the home of the world’s best physicists and mathematicians (right Marcus?). They could produce a climate analog model based on Rubik’s Cube ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubik's_Cube ), for presentation at the next World Climate Conference in Budapest.
Each tile on the Klimate Kube would represent a climate prediction – red for hotter, blue for colder, green for wetter, brown for drier. Given quintillions of permutations, this game – er, model -would keep climate experts, and even members of the lay public, busy for decades. Profits from sales should be ploughed back into further research. We could even cover the earth’s surface with a layer of several hundred cubes, all in different permutations. This would change albedo. Probably Larry could produce a bread dough and dowel model of this.
Meantime, we could get on with solving Australia’s most urgent environmental problem, which is, beyond any doubt, severe bushfire due to heavy, connected fuel. Come to think of it, some of us know the answer already, with the help of those famous Hungarians, Paul Erdos and Alfred Renyi (1959), and the Aboriginal community.
With all this warm weather predicted I’ve been getting my rain making machine set up to protect the house from fires, slashing fire trails through the nat park to back-burn off [doesn’t pay to ask permission-just make your own arrangements] and generally getting ready for the fire season. Now that that’s done and I’m all dressed up with nowhere to go……
“So thanks for playing Spanglers – and shooting yourself thoroughly in both feet. Thanks for also exposing Wattsup’s utter bullshit tactics. What denialist scum you all are.”
Just love the way you can ignore the point of denial here.
“Of course you always have to punch data into sceptics more than once. Hahahahahahaha …”
Funny you should say that……
“Being so close to that huge lake would give the station a bias reading if anything.”
How can consistant long term readings at any site constitute bias based simply on position? If this site qualified in all other respects its position would be good for overcoming UHI.
If all temperature data were obtained from similar sites [lighthouses e.g.] we would be getting much more reliable data.
This site is questionable for other obvious reasons.
“Summer weather in winter. Nothing out of the ordinary here.”
That’s not weather, this is weather.
June 21st, 2007:
“Showing just how remarkable the cold outbreak has been, the lowest maximum temperature ever recorded in the Australian tropics occurred yesterday, when The Monument, near Mount Isa, reached just 7.7 degrees.”
BTW, the predicted record for Brisbane today did not happen and still stands at 32.8c which occurred in August 1946, 63 years ago, before accepted ACO2. Today’s temp was 1 degree lower.
Move along, nothing out of the ordinary here.
And how much would you have to “adjust” Brisbane’s temp since 1946 for UHI?
Brisbane population in 1946: 384,370
Brisbane population in 2008: 1,945,639 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia_by_population )
I feel very sorry for the people in Athens who are battling fires. Their situation could be much worse, though. Carbon dioxide is used in one common type of fire extinguisher. If we still had the low levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, as they were 100 years ago , the fires might be even worse.
“Summer weather in winter. Nothing out of the ordinary here.”
Oh its global warming. Thats what you are saying SJT you numbskull. CO2. Global warming. Just like when it freezes up thats climate change right?….. (idiot).
Something strange happened to the Brisbane thermometer at 4.00 pm. It suddenly jumped 3 deg. c! And promptly went back 3c!
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ60901/IDQ60901.94576.shtml
Normal time for max reading is between 11.00 am and 3.00pm, before the sea breeze comes in.
The Airport reading at this time was about 9c cooler.
so what did the people say in 1946 when the previous record was set? Global warming?
Right janama. And notice that the previous record came during a time of cooling. Not warming. Like this one no doubt. It would be useful if people were trying to trace this back to a forbush event. Or some other unusual occurrence.
Actually Graeme it came at the start of the cooling.
Listen to the nutty squirrels have a cluster wank on the vine. Gibbering among themselves.
Alan reminds us the fire extinguishers contain CO2. I did not know that. Next time there is a bush fire – Alan will put it out with his CO2 extinguisher. Australia needs people like Alan.
Could it be a heat island effect. Oh most certainly. Gibber – gibber. A Bird attempts to mount a drongo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWm0EYfKV4g&feature=related
Records included 37C at Balonne, up from its previous high of 33.7, Cunnamulla 37 (33.3 previously), Roma 36 (32), Injune 36 (33.9), Quilpie 37 (33.6), Rolleston 35 (32.8), Goondiwindi 35 (34), Warwick 33 (32) and Kingaroy 33 (30).
Bedourie, in the far southwest, recorded the state’s hottest temperature with 38C.
Temperatures to 33C are expected in Brisbane today as hot conditions continue across much of the state.
Cohenite
There is a solar connection with El Nino and La Nina, as you point out, but the connection I would guess is in the EM domain and not in the radiance domain, though radiation would be a bell weather for the underlying EM connection. In any case Leybourne’s work on surge tectonics supports the EM connection as well.
But It’s remarkable so much ado over El’s and La’s without anyone understanding the basic cause of these two events. Not knowing the physical cause means you cannot model it. My bet is that doing experimental work with Birkeland’s terella would produce insights to this, but who is going to get research funding for that, especially if it has the potential to knock the Carbon Gravy Train off its rails.
Green Davey,
I presume you are being purposefully obscure with the scoring system – heavens knows what it’s based on.
Poor old denialwits … suckered yet again … Brisbane temp reached 35.4 degrees C soon after 4.00pm this afternoon. I feel your pain.
Chris W
Denialwits now are we? Brisbane reaching 34.5 degrees Celsius isn’t a global metric but a very local one, and we have no pain, well we do, from aching sides laughing at the grasping of straws by the climate alarmists – you are sure it isn’t an instrument malfunction?
Chris W,
In addition Perth is experiencing some unusually colder temps, so in terms of a “global average”, nothing has happened thermally.
It pains me to write that.
Yes Louis, we all know it is just summer weather in winter in Brisbane, and winter weather in … er … winter in Perth. But still … record heat in southern Australia in summer ’08 … seven or more degrees above average this early in the year in Queensland … hmmmm makes yer think don’t it ?
Anyway, what testosterone-fueled point was spangled drongo trying to prove to SJT with his premature and incorrect (as you point out it was 34.5 degrees) BTW above ? Maybe you should have a word to him.
If it hurts just stop it.
Luke at 8:14 pm:
Yes, the assertion that fires would be even worse with lower carbon dioxide is utter bunkum.
I have been running a simple experiment here. Over the last few weeks, I have salted this blog with about a dozen comments, to see what sort of response they would elicit. Here are a few examples.
I said that there were rivers flowing in Antarctica within historical times, proving that the Antarctic was warmer than it is now, despite lower carbon dioxide levels than now. This was based on a medieval map compiled by someone with a fertile imagination who made it up in an era when no-one even knew the Antarctic continent existed.
I have put in a reference to a paper about the crystallography of sugar, published in the peer-reviewed chemistry literature, followed by the absurd claim that this paper demolished the science of global warming.
I invented an alternative natural source of carbon dioxide, a fanciful fabrication about natural gas and lightning, and declared that my tale showed that human activities are not the cause of increases in carbon dioxide.
You and one other reality-based, scientifically literate commenter have been the only people who have called me out.
Luke,
You all still can’t deal with reality.
I did not say it had been used. I am saying you cannot prove it has not.
Having used cans like that, I can tell you that they can be used without burning the pallet under them. The heat goes up, away.
But I can also tell you that the can is going to be distorting the the temp in the area of the can.
The hilarious part of this is that you actually think this is an example of an OKey dokey site, and that you have the gall to castigate those who have simply taken accurate pics of it.
And your use of that artist’s site as some sort of rebuttal of Watts is hilarious. Study the source, since you are apparently so sensitive to quality work. But astroturf sock puppets who agree with you are immune?
You all are typical bureaucrats: you would not know how to actually do anything, and have zip respect for those who do. No wonder you love your bs models.
If you ever had an original, ethical thought with integrity, it would be your first.
And, to show just how gullible our AGW friends really are,
the AGW hype and promotion industry has just rolled out a new study:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17657-global-warming-could-change-earths-tilt.html
Now CO2 causes the Earth’s axis to tilt!
Chicken Little merely thought the sky was falling. Now our burning fossil fules is going to cause the very axis of the planet to spin off.
We are surely doomed.
Question for Luke, SJT, and all you true believers:
Don’t you feel just a bit foolish by now?
Huntsbum – the “artist” is merely reporting work down by the science community. In all – makes no difference to trend ! Good stations – same trend line as poor stations.
And the biology simple tells you what the thermometers already know.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7193/full/nature06937.html
How about you grow up and stop being so utterly stupid in your denialist scumminess.
Yes it’s only weather and when the temperature trend is upward, punctuated only by only by some wildly unseasonal fluctuations, then we all know the world is actually cooling so we should really be cranking up another source of CO2 emissions.
Well may the denialosphere lecture on apoplexy, for soon we shall harness their blood pressure as a new source of clean energy. (Provided we ain’t maimed by flying blood, sweat, tears, spittle, teeth, eyes and sundry other anatomical components as their heads explode)
Luke,
I am glad you buy into the daisy chain of self-referential pap that passes for research in AGW land. how appropriate for an utter sock puppet.
Alan,
So not only were you posting dreary stupid stuff, but like most AGW true beleivers at heart, you are a fraud.
RWFOH,
Your pharmacy called, and they apologize for accidentally giving you that drug that is obviously reducing blood flow to your brain. the only body bits expected to be flung are more poop from snarky AGW beleivers. In other words, nothing new.
I notice that all of you AGW beleivers are nice and quiet about the ice.
And just where are those promised storms?
A reminder about the history of apocalyptic trash like AGW for all of you true blue believers:
It is always wrong.
But Luke, as usual you flinched from the real question:
Is the Earth now going to wobble off of its axis due to burning coal from Australia and fat Americans driving hummers?
Where’s the real record? BOM web site had Roma at 1004 degrees for the other night dropping to about 35 the next day!
re Comment from: SJT August 24th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
“Summer weather in winter. Nothing out of the ordinary here.”
True? Then why given same CO2 in the atmosphere, why are my Devon and Somerset currently recording colder nights and days in what should be high summer than in much of SE Australia’s winter?
“Where’s the real record? BOM web site had Roma at 1004 degrees for the other night dropping to about 35 the next day!”
Have you got a problem with pristine data? Those commies at the BOM are probably going to do one of their nefarious ‘adjustments’ to it now. I hope Steve McIntyre is watching when they do it.
“Anyway, what testosterone-fueled point was spangled drongo trying to prove to SJT with his premature and incorrect (as you point out it was 34.5 degrees) BTW above ? Maybe you should have a word to him.”
As if you didn’t know. All day yesterday the warmers were menstruating all over the Brisbane thermometer. “Have we got a record yet”? “How close is it now”? and by 3.30pm when the max is usually long gone and the thermometer 10 klm away was registering 10 DEGREES LOWER, suddenly the Bris thermometer jumps 3 degrees and goes down down just as rapidly.
This is one time I can possibly believe the “anthropogenic or human caused” part of the equation.
Pigs bum drongo – try to stop fabricating !
Max’s Beaudesert 35.6, Gatton 37.9, Amberley 36.4, Archerfield 35.7, City 35.4
3:00pm’s 35.3 36.3 36.0 34.8 31.5
“Max’s Beaudesert 35.6, Gatton 37.9, Amberley 36.4, Archerfield 35.7, City 35.4
3:00pm’s 35.3 36.3 36.0 34.8 31.5”
So you’re saying it jumped 4 degrees while the airport was 10 degrees lower?
The point I’m making is that thermometers left to their own devices don’t usually behave this way.
“Now CO2 causes the Earth’s axis to tilt!
Chicken Little merely thought the sky was falling. Now our burning fossil fules is going to cause the very axis of the planet to spin off.
We are surely doomed.
Question for Luke, SJT, and all you true believers:
Don’t you feel just a bit foolish by now?”
You will have to point out where anyone said the sky is falling.
SJT “Summer weather in winter. Nothing out of the ordinary here”.
Vancouver, Canada…February 1970…warmest winter I can remember. When you can wear just T-shirts in Vancouver during February, it’s warm.
Also, what goes around comes around. If you live long enough you experience all sorts of weather. A hurricane just hit the east coast of Canada and people were freaking over 80 mile an hour winds. In the late 50’s, we had winds with gusts from 60 to 80 mph regularly and rode our bikes to school in them. Once, I got picked up and blown off the road, right into the ditch. I would have thought it funny had I not been riding down a steep hill and landed in the ditch between driveways.
We did stuff like that because no one talked about the dangers of high winds. Never once did an emergency get declared over violent winds. The difference between then and now is the plethora of information available today and it is not always helpful. If the current warming had happened in the 50’s or 60’s, it would have gone by unnoticed.
Drongo,the airport was cooler because of proximity to Moreton Bay,while NE winds have a longer overland run to warm them as they penetrate as far as the CBD,where a burst of hot NWerlies spiked the temperature post 3pm…. 3pm temp today difference 7C for the same physical reason. “Thermometers left to their own devices…”and positions.
Aussie East and South Coast heat wave days often feature maxima post 3pm. No sea-breeze in Birdsville?
forfismum “As a result, July experienced “the largest one-month jump in our 31-year record of global satellite temperatures””.
Here in Vancouver, Canada, it was literally a half-month jump. Early July was the coldest July for a long time then it got so hot it set a record (1 C more than in 1960). Most of August has been cool, ranging from 15 C to 20 C, just the way I like it. It’s warm enough to stride out in a T-shirt but not so hot as to be uncomfortable. The Ninos certainly can be schizophrenic.
“while NE winds have a longer overland run to warm them as they penetrate as far as the CBD,where a burst of hot NWerlies spiked the temperature post 3pm…. 3pm temp today difference 7C for the same physical reason.”
Today the airport and the city had the same max and they didn’t spike 3c over a half hour period.
And what would make 10 klm 10c warmer do you think? That’s a Birdsville difference in temp for a mere 10 klm.
“..airport and city had same max”..at_different_times,city at 3pm,airport at 1pm. At/soon after 1pm,when temp hit 33.1C,winds switched from N-W quadrant to NNE at airport,dropping temps to 26C by 3pm. NEer did not reach CBD ’til after 4.30pm,dropping temp 5C in 15mins, from 32.5C.
Yesterdays spike was clearly caused by wind shift, from NNE to NW.Wind then returned to NE quadrant after perhaps 45mins,dropping temp back. So ,two sites c.10km apart with air parcels from different directions at 4pm.
BTW A warm parcel of N to NE air hit the city after 11pm last night,causing a 5C spike for a few hours.
Man, will ya look at that … Amberley AFB set a new record low of 20. A whopping 14 degrees above average !!
Don’t lose heart though … remember that the finest denidiot minds on the planet have assured us that global warming stopped in 1998. God bless ’em … crisis averted.
Two days and weather becomes climate? Is it just an echo or did I hear a gory bleeder say that?
So Spanglers thinks there is a organised conspiracy why to jack up all the thermometers in SEQ save the airport. Where some sceptic held out against the pressure. Any suspicious cars parked near your house Spanglers – that’s us !! We’re gonna getcha – we certainly bought off the other gauge readers. The ultimate perversity of the sceptic brain.
SJT,
With as much creative writing as you practice, surely you would recognize a metaphor.
AGW is nothing if not based on the metaphorical sky falling.
And since the metaphorical sky is not, in fact, falling, just what are AGW believers like you buzzing on and on about anyway?
Luke,
Just like the petty wastage of govt. time your ensemble engages in does not require a conspiracy, some AGW dweeb fiddling around with a thermometer does not either.
Unless you folk in Australia are used to multi-degree momentary surges in air temps?
Luke,
By the way, the skeptics are pointing out not that a crisis was averted in 1998, but rather that the only crisis there ever was- as is the case in all apocalyptic clap trap- was of the mental health of the apocalyptic cult believers. The god news is that there is help for all of you wanking away pretending to be working for the Australian tax payer.
Huntsbum – how can you say that when you’re paid by the Heartland to do your stint. Denialist shill.
Spanglers – gramps – the only thing that surges is your nappie.
“With as much creative writing as you practice, surely you would recognize a metaphor.”
I don’t see anything wrong with the article. They make their claim, they why they make it, they say the mechanism that could cause a wobble has done so before.
hunter, “multi-degree momentary surges in air temperature” are well documented in the history of heatwaves along the Australian coast. Pretty common in the States,too…
Luke,
Thank you for cheering me up during a sad week.
I will be laughing over that one for awhile.
If I could get paid for the fun of showing AGW true believers for the tools they are, it would make this perfect. Do you have any references for Heartland? That would be a cool gig.
No, the only schill being paid to post here – or not- is you all. Unless SJT is another over employed public servant, as well?
Nick,
I guess a gust of warm or cool air could come along and make a significant change. Especially if the land temp sensor is parked by AC fans, as for too many in the US.
Do you have stats on what you are claiming, or is it just a parry?
“hunter, “multi-degree momentary surges in air temperature” are well documented in the history of heatwaves along the Australian coast. Pretty common in the States,too…”
We well remember the one when Hansen made his famous address in 1988.
hunter,a famous Aussie example is in the analysis of the great heat-wave in Melbourne,Victoria in January 1939. Quoting from Bob Crowders marvellous,and endearingly-titled,”The Wonders of the Weather” (AGPS 1995):
“The sequence of events [on Jan.13th 1939] is typical of very hot days in southern parts of Australia. The temperature rose very rapidly from about 8am to 9am [about 11C,most of this in the first 30mins],and this was accompanied by a marked strengthening of the wind from the north[i.e.continental direction]. A shallow layer of cooler [radiative cooling ,plus inflow of maritime air from the large water body to the south] air lay over Melbourne in the early morning with a temperature inversion separating it from the hotter air above. By 8am the shallow layer of cool air had been heated considerably through contact with the earth’s surface,which in turn was being heated by the sun. This destroyed the inversion allowing the strong north winds to penetrate down to the surface through a mixing process.”
So the temperature rose from about 18C at 7am to 36C by 9am. Under the dominance of the hot northerly,the temp rose less rapidly to over 45C by noon,stayed around that level for almost four hours,then collapsed 15C in quarter of an hour when a southerly wind change arrrived…
.
Jan 1939 was a dramatic week long heat-wave,unsurpassed until the events of February this year.
Brisbane’s current heat-wave is less dramatic in absolutes – it is winter – but it is statistically significant,again because it’s winter: two days,13C and 11C above average,bookended by days 4C above. And not one day so far this month has been below the mean.
As far as the US goes, look no further than Santa Ana winds,or the effects of the Chinook.
“Unless SJT is another over employed public servant, as well?”
SJT gives me the impression of being a pimply faced adolescent . His comments show his education to be about 3rd-4th form secondary school level. He is probably shooting off comments from the school library.
Nick,
Your anecdote makes it more clear that surface temperature readings are easily manipulated and less valuable.
I do enjoy that AGW believers are now chasing weather events as proof of climate.
hunter. That anecdote-actually a documented account- was simple proof of the very real volatility of local temperature over short time scales due to geographic factors and meteorological realities small and large….and not likely to be AC units involved in 1939. Perhaps if we stopped measuring temperature in units less than a day?
“I do enjoy that AGW believers are now chasing weather events as proof of climate.”
The record is extraordinary, only time will tell if it is part of the AGW signal. A news story not long ago had the high records outdoing the low records two to one. That tells you something.
SJT,
In what way is the record extraordinary?
We now know that durig the course of a single day, temps can fluctuate on an intra-day basis multiple degrees for very short periods of time.
I think that makes the land based temp record even more full of noise, and less full of meaning, than has been widely discussed.
What the news survey tells me is that news media are promoting high temps more than low.
“What the news survey tells me is that news media are promoting high temps more than low”
It was a news story on research done by a climate scientist. More high records than low records. Over time, all things being equal, they should be about the same.
“In what way is the record extraordinary?”
It broke a long standing record?
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25987193-601,00.html
Yeah, it’s all just a conspiracy. People all over Australia are manipulating temperature records to further the cause of smashing the capitalist system.
SJT,
It is hard to tell if you are ignorant, slow or naive.
Your reflexive response to try and divert conversation by pretending that every stupid behavior is either a conspiracy or in the mind of the beholder could be any of the above. But it is still not an intelligent response.
SJT,
AS to your news article, thanks for proving my point that the news is biased.
Perhaps it is the ‘slow’ option?
“AS to your news article, thanks for proving my point that the news is biased.
Perhaps it is the ’slow’ option?”
“The Australian” has been the most ‘skeptical’ news source out there.
SJT’s news article was probably something from “The Guardian” Hunter.
“SJT’s news article was probably something from “The Guardian” Hunter.”
It was from “The Australian”, a devout follower of ‘skepticism’, and it was reporting a press relase from the BOM.
Jennifer has had stories published in “The Australian”.