Professor Scott Armstrong of the Wharton School of Business at the Univ. of Pennsyvania, also associated with the Heartland Institute, is internationally known for his pioneering work on forecasting methods. Recently, he challenged former Vice-President Al Gore regarding Global Climate Modeling – and today sent off another letter:
March 28, 2008
Honorable Albert Gore
2100 West End Avenue,
Suite 620
Nashville, TN 37203
Fax 615 327-1323
Dear Mr. Gore,
The extended deadline for the Global Warming Challenge has passed and, despite the fact that I have responded to all of your concerns to date regarding the challenge, you have not been willing to engage in a scientific test of your forecasts of dangerous global warming.
Despite our literature searches and our appeals both on the Internet and in our published paper on climate change, my colleague and I have been unable to find a single scientific forecast to support global warming. If you are aware of such a study, I appeal to you directly to reveal it to the scientific community so that it can be subject to peer review and so the public can see the scientific basis for your claims.
In addition we need to continue scientific studies. Thus, I pose this question:
“When and under what conditions would you be willing to engage in a scientific test of your global warming forecasts?”
I look forward to your responses. By your own words, the global warming issue remains an important one for the future of the world. Given the enormous expenditures on this issue, I hope that as a concerned and influential citizen, you will take an active role in encouraging the application of science to this issue.
Sincerely,
J. Scott Armstrong
—————
A history of the Global Warning Challenge is provided at http://theclimatebet.com. It includes all correspondence between Scott Armstrong and Al Gore. The site will post all papers that purport to provide scientific forecasts of global warming. The papers must provide full disclosure on how the forecasts were made, as full disclosure is one of the basic principles of science.
Luke says
Why would you ask Al Gore? It’s a job for governments and their science organisations. And how do you test a forecast except against the real world. Obtain replicate planet Earth – adjust atmosphere to 750ppm CO2 and observe results over 100 year period – report back.
Academic economist turned activist.
sunsettommy says
Al Gore is the visible represenative of the AGW propaganda movement.The man who wins an oscar for his error filled “documentary”.
The man who has made preposterous predictions of massive sea level increase IN THE NEAR FUTURE!
The same man who has stated that unless we turn to people like him (the messianic complex).The “tipping point” will be reached in 7 years and 306 days.
Meanwhile he is raking in millions of $$$ of suckers like you in the process.
The man who keeps getting fawning 60 minutes interviews.Thus getting a whole lot of publicity.
Therefore it is not surprising that he is a target.
Still the same ol Luke I have come to know.Just as clueless as ever.
LOL
Mr T says
Luke, don’t you know? If you prove Al Gore is wrong, then the whole AGW conspiracy collapses! He’s the top honcho you see, and if he’s wrong everyone becomes dispirited and says “Oh ok, it was all fake, we admit it now”
sunsettommy says
I asked Gavin a simple question about validating far into the future models.
Can you guess what his answer was?
LOL
Pete says
Have a look at http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007/
sunsettommy says
T^,
Did you even read this part?
“Despite our literature searches and our appeals both on the Internet and in our published paper on climate change, my colleague and I have been unable to find a single scientific forecast to support global warming. If you are aware of such a study, I appeal to you directly to reveal it to the scientific community so that it can be subject to peer review and so the public can see the scientific basis for your claims.”
All Al has to do is provide a SINGLE scientific forcast to support GW.It is a fair request.
Why is it so hard for Al to provide it?
Mr T says
Sunset,
What does “single scientific forecast to support global warming.” actually mean. what are they actually after? What do they mean by ‘forecast’? There are lots of models. So I assume they don’t mean those.
Perhaps they are asking for something that doesn’t exist.
For example I can’t find a single forecast that tells me the weather for 2027. That doesn’t mean there is nothing in the scientific literature to support the notion that 2027 will most likely be warmer than 2008.
Mac says
How could someone dare to challenge the Goreacle? Why, this Dr. Armstrong must be owned by Big Oil or Big Something-or-Other.
If it’s alright, Jenn, I would like to post the letter (and a h/t) to the Blogging Tories! Thanks in advance!!
Luke says
So what would you like to see Sunset? An example would be what? Let’s cut to the chase.
Paul Biggs says
Oooh! GISS. Who ‘adjusts’ GISS and makes forecasts?
There is a clear warm bias in GISS:
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/a-look-at-temperature-anomalies-for-all-4-global-metrics/
Doug Lavers says
In all fairness, I thought the IPCC had provided a temperature forecast, together with a confidence band.
The fact that the current world temperature trend is already outside the confidence band is irrelevant.
Hans Erren says
“There is a clear warm bias in GISS”
no they just use a different reference base period.
Paul Biggs says
So which is the correct ‘base period’ to use?
There’s still a warm bias in the surface records as described in peer reviewed literature. Pielke Sr has highlighted the cherry-picking of publications by IPCC WG1, and is published on this subject himself.
Mr T says
Paul, That Anthony Watts thing is stupid. If you use the same base period for them all, they come out the same.
Check at http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/03/02/whats-up-with-that/#more-614
Tamino shows the 4 data sets using the same base period on this graph. There is no real difference between them
http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/4way.jpg
There is no such thing as a “correct base period” it’s an arbitrary decision. The reason you use a base period is becaue you want to find the ‘anomaly’ that is, the difference between the base period and the year in question. It’s a simple way of ranking.
Louis Hissink says
Luke wrote”
Why would you ask Al Gore? It’s a job for governments and their science organisations. And how do you test a forecast except against the real world. Obtain replicate planet Earth – adjust atmosphere to 750ppm CO2 and observe results over 100 year period – report back.
Here Luke has wandered into virtual reality – “Obtain replicate planet Earth – adjust atmosphere to 750ppm CO2 and observe results over 100 year period – report back.”
Given that weather is a non-linear, chaotic process that no one has been able to reduce to simple mathematical forms, his, obvious, rhetorical flourish above has to be regarded as an over-excited fluctuation of his neural processes; one wonders whether lunar cycles show any correlation.
Louis Hissink says
Paul:
re Base period.
If you graph, ( or plot) temperature along the Y axis and time on the X axis, then a simple plot of T vs Time may be produced. It, (the plot) is quite flat.
Then select a range along the X axis, (Time) and average the Y value within that range; if it is X=30 years, then Av Y is a “climate” statistic, Yc.
Then subtract Yc from the other Y’s to obtain “Y” anomalies.
This procedure produces the ubiquitous plots of temperature anomalies in which variations about 0 (+/- .5) are presented.
Statistically this in interesting, for it shows what happens when the statistical mean, however determined), when removed from the date from which it was calculated, produces, when graphed, or plotted, visually stimulating images.
What Temperature anomaly plots show are variations about a global mean. What these do not is show what the mean temperature is doing, since in the process of producing the temperature anomalies, that mean has been removed.
I suspect that not even JEB was twigged this one, but I will aver if he has.
Paul Biggs says
Tamino – aka Grant Foster – trustworthy source?
Getting his butt kicked over at climate audit.
Paul Biggs says
Part 2 from Watts here:
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/a-look-at-temperature-anomalies-for-all-4-global-metrics-part-2/
Luke says
“What Temperature anomaly plots show are variations about a global mean. What these do not is show what the mean temperature is doing, since in the process of producing the temperature anomalies, that mean has been removed.” wow – we never knew that.
Your point being?
HarryG says
Paul Biggs
You beat me to it. Tamino is no match for McIntyre. There is a reason why Tamino never responds on CA
Paul Biggs says
Pielke sr considers ‘what is normal:’
http://climatesci.org/2008/03/27/interesting-weblog-on-hall-of-record-entitled-what-is-normal/
John Van Krimpen says
May an ex banker enter the debate.
Ok, the base line is the prediction date in banking, we do a thing called CFF,cash flow forecasting, in iffy propostions.
Client says he can meet this expectation point, worst case best case and mid case.
I don’t see clients expectations of any sort being realised.
I see a failed case being made but then again I see a very narrow model having been used to begin with.
You can’t say the worst case in this case expecting planetary punters to change major behaviours without a bankable observed.
Is runaway warming happening with CO2 the main driver, because the demand is energy sources must be rationed strictly trying to drive technology with a whip.
Have we seen a bankable proof yet. Clearly fits their models expectations.
My answer is no.
The onus is on the propositioner not the banker, the banker in this case is humanity just about all of it.
IMO.
John Van Krimpen says
Last thing I will say if a farmer had come to me with this narrow a discussion on his farming ability, just one scenario, I would have said try again.
If a business person had come to me about a new direction with this narrow a discussion unproven my answer would be no.
Jan Pompe says
Hans: “no they just use a different reference base period”
It’s worth pointing out that the absolutes can be be seen by adding the subtracted base period value back in.
This by Tamino doesn’t make sense:
” The right way to compare these data sets is to use a common reference period for all of them.”
it’s only true if working with raw data but if you want to see if there is bias in the adjustments you need to take the adjusted figures and the a base period average back in.. It doesn’t look lik tamino did this so he could be just as wrong as Watts who doesn’t appear to have taken the different base period averages into account.
David Rubie says
Where is our apology Jennifer for deliberately misleading the Australian public on national radio? Do we need to complain directly to the IPA?
Did you remind all your readers that the Heartland Institute is a front for Exxon and in the past has misrepresented facts on behalf of Tobacco companies?
Mark says
From the gistemp statement posted by Pete:
“The Southern Oscillation and the solar cycle have significant effects on year-to-year global temperature change. Because both of these natural effects were in their cool phases in 2007, the unusual warmth of 2007 is all the more notable.”
Funny, no mention of the significant El Nino that started off 2007. It’s also intersting how they are now signing about a significant effect from the solar cycle.
More fraud.
Woody says
Al Gore will be on “60 Minutes” this weekend attacking skeptics as the same kind of people as those who believe in a flat Earth and that the moon landing was staged in Hollywood. If skeptics are so stupid, he shouldn’t have any problem debating them. But, as typical of the left, he resorts to name-calling instead of backing up his claims.
Paul Biggs says
David Rubie – Jennifer hasn’t mislead anyone. 1998 IS the instrumental record for global near surface average temperature. The heat in the atmosphere is small compared to the ocean heat content, which shows no warming since 2004. For now, ‘global warming’ has stopped.
The head of the IPCC said that there has been a temperature ‘plateau’ this century. Are you going to complain about him?
The IPCC is a ‘front’ for politicised ‘science’ for the UN’s wealth redistribution agenda.
Climate alarmists have mis-represented the science on passive smoking in ad hom attacks.
gavin says
IMO Paul is only on the fringe of the main game with his passive smoking.
http://blogs.theaustralian.news.com.au/phillipadams/index.php/theaustralian/comments/the_smoking_gun/
John V K: “the banker in this case is humanity just about all of it”
After walking away yesterday from a long interview at the local where their rep made several calls to legal branch during discussions I have to wonder if a bank is a good case for “humanity”. Sure they protect their back like any other business but how good are they in times of stress? Can you say your advice was about customers and not shareholders when the financial markets all over the place are swinging down?
Apparently a NSW politician said yesterday home repositions in his electorate had risen from 9 / week to 5 / day over a short period. I guess it was an honest attempt to outline changing conditions for home ownership.
After waking from a private nightmare with the general theme of denial, collective guilt and carcasses, I can see many other ways of finding the bottom line again.
With so much denial i.e. Jen’s blog, other columns etc it can be quite daunting at times and it’s much easier to withdraw from particular discussion however I return to the same conclusion that most posters have never been down the road of practical experience, Mere numbers don’t describe the bright life or its horrors and cleaning up after an event is one way or another never your bottom line.
A former journo used to stop his bike regularly and let his pillion passenger go dip and taste water in potholes out back. I used to estimate microwave reflection based on hard times, drought. This week we got the “independent” MDB “Authority”. No doubt there will be many a cry against it here.
Chatting on about Antarctica as we do I often wonder who has actually worked on stuff down there? Not I, however plenty of my work mates had, over and over too. It makes me feel second hand, what about you?
An item on ABC Collectors this week end reminded me of the hypercritical, a sterling silver snuff box for a lady who may need to pass by an open sewer on her way through town. Isn’t it remarkable what we want to forget? Having done instrument calibrations in trunk sewers, sewage farms, piggeries, meat works, tanning yards and boilers with odds n ends disposal, I can recall another side of our fine living as we do.
Mark, Woody, Paul, anyone: What do you focus on in denial, images of a cold slab or baskets of strong smelling flowers? Ask your partners for a balanced answer then consider our carbon impact.
We haven’t covered funerals as a fraud, why not?
rog says
Adams is on yet another thinly disguised anti-US rant, far more smokers in communist China, nearly 3/4 men smoke and 2,000 die each day of tobacco related illness.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/216998.stm
He is going to be stuffed if evangelist Obama gets the Dem nomination, he wont be able to tell the religious right from the religious Wright.
Doug lavers says
The Australian today carried a lift-out feature on Climate.
I failed to detect a single mention that there might be some doubt about the underlying science – like for example the world has not actually warmed for ten years, and currently the planet might be cooling.
With the Antarctic building iceshelf at a rate not seen before, and Solar Cycle 23 already the longest since the 19th Century, with no end in sight, Penny Wong and the Rudd Government better wake up soon.
Otherwise some hideously bad policy decisions are likely to be made.
sod says
why would Gore discuss climate with a person, who nows absolutely NOTHING about it?
Armstrong is promoting HIS book and HIS “invention”. i haven t heard the climate community talk about “forecasting” a lot.
Armstrong wants to limit state intervention. so he made a long list of “forecasting requirements” with the sole purpose, of making policy advice hard.
i d love to check, what his forecasting principles would say about all the anti terrorism measures. i have massive doubts, that tghose who are planning responses to a future terrorism attack have seriously studied his forecasting principles…
GMB says
“Why would you ask Al Gore? It’s a job for governments and their science organisations. And how do you test a forecast except against the real world. Obtain replicate planet Earth – adjust atmosphere to 750ppm CO2 and observe results over 100 year period – report back….”
1500ppm would be far more beneficial. We already know whats going to happen Luke. We are going to suffer cooling.
Its not a job for government science institutes at all. Those ought to be closed down since they are poisoning science and making rational policy development implausible.
Stand-alone private research institutes can be tax exempt and their employee salaries tax exempt as well and that would do just fine.
GMB says
“Mark, Woody, Paul, anyone: What do you focus on in denial, images of a cold slab or baskets of strong smelling flowers? Ask your partners for a balanced answer then consider our carbon impact.”
Back in the 80’s Richard Perle described Moscow as a place where everyone “lied all the time.”
Now the focus of human evil and relentless ritualised lying has migrated to the environmentalist movement.
I’m not just being mercurial here. People might not feel its within their character to do so. But all attempts must be made to discredit non-stop liars like Gavin, Robert Merkel, David Rubie, obvious whores like Robert Garnaut, that bald fellow who couldn’t sing or dance and is basically no good for anything, and all such flotsam and jetsam.
A movement must be developed to strike them from their parasitical jobs and socially ostracise them for the rest of their useless lives.
To not do so, and with all due overkill, is a luxury we cannot afford. We cannot execute these people or put them under house arrest, no matter how satisfying this would be.
So people there is simply no substitute for us getting together massive momentum to have these people banned fom public sector jobs.
Tim Flannery is another one. What a liar he is. Oustanding and shameless lying all the time. The list goes on but we have to get the momentum together to get them all permanently sacked.
Bahnisch also. Tim Lambert. Quiggin. The guy who presents the science show on radio national and his producers, his production team et al. The bloke who does the “Australia Talks” show and his producer. Anyone who has pushed this fraud.
Its got to be like a de-Baathification or De-Nazification of our society.
If we look at the issues in the NSW news we find that nearly all of them have environmentalist ritualised stupidity and lying as the root cause of our problems. So its nothing that can be fixed by half-measures.
If we look at violence and suffering around the world more and more examples of it come with the environmentalist movement as the major contributing cause.
Environmentalists are people who lie all the time and people who lie all the time are typically environmentalists.
Ender says
GMB – “Back in the 80’s Richard Perle described Moscow as a place where everyone “lied all the time.””
And Richard Perle is a paragon of truth? What did happen to those weapons of mass destruction?
“Its got to be like a de-Baathification or De-Nazification of our society.”
And why we are at it why not get rid of all those pesky minorities as well leaving us Aryans to rule.
“Environmentalists are people who lie all the time and people who lie all the time are typically environmentalists.”
And people who make sweeping generalisations are all narrow minded bigots with no imagination and narrow minded bigots all make sweeping generalisations. Mind you I could be lying.
Its the old joke “How do you know when a politician is lying? – When his lips are moving.
SJT says
“Given that weather is a non-linear, chaotic process that no one has been able to reduce to simple mathematical forms, his, obvious, rhetorical flourish above has to be regarded as an over-excited fluctuation of his neural processes; one wonders whether lunar cycles show any correlation.”
Those seven day weather forecasts we get now are amazingly accurate. Clearly, chaotic behaviour can be understood and predicted to an extent. You make it sound as if it’s a totally intractable problem that we can never solve.
SJT says
“I’m not just being mercurial here. People might not feel its within their character to do so. But all attempts must be made to discredit non-stop liars like Gavin, Robert Merkel, David Rubie, obvious whores like Robert Garnaut, that bald fellow who couldn’t sing or dance and is basically no good for anything, and all such flotsam and jetsam.”
You know, I just read your post, and it was like a veil was lifted from my eyes. Everything you say is absolutely true. I’m convinced. I’m going to change my thinking of how the laws of physics work because of it.
GMB says
Well the thing is you are a relentless obsessive liar too. So we have to find out who you are and seperate you from your comfortable position as a parasite.
Environmentalists lie all the time. You included.
Luke says
Yes GB all very tedious and boring – but what happened in Dobell is what we really want to know. Where were you when it counted?
GMB says
See you are lying just then. You are not the least bit interested in what happened in Dobell.
What you are after instead is the annihilation of most human populations and leaving things in a sort of wildnerness. With just enough humans to sustain the United Nations organisation so as to take your career (wasting other peoples money and lying) global.
This is a movement of liars all sharing the same fantasy.
Tim Flannery is a particular idol of yours on account of him lying all the time and making heaps of money lying all the time.
But the rest of us have to think about massive reindustrialisation of the Australian economy. We only think of pleasant thoughts like spacious high-rise, developing container shipping at Picton, nuclear power every where, and exporting liquified-coal by the gigalitre.
Taking productive power inland so as not to be vulnerable to nuclear attack. Earthmoving equipment that puts multi-level basements in every home so the kids grow up in spaciousness and these double as blast-shelters for nuclear attack.
You guys think about stuffing everyone into public transport so you can thin their numbers down, like dropping Aztecs, by releasing some scungy disease into a pretty Clover Moore city that knows no private transport.
We however think about getting about on reclaimed land with high-powered weaponry clamped to the side of our four-wheel-drive turbo-diesel motors.
Yours is a stingy selfish vision of weeds, crowding and disease. Of people loaded into trains like Jews into cattletrucks, with nowhere they can go but where the bureaucrats let the trains take them. You dream of a poor world. With wealth only for the taxeaters who do not create that wealth.
Our vision is every man a king within his own spacious pad. Either 5 acres of land or half an acre of sky-house.
Luke says
With fascists like you living there certainly not. What happened mate is that your stupid views were annihilated at the ballot box test – we’re all bored with your stupidity and inanity shared by the two retarded hicks and the other stirrers who voted for you. The fact that you’re unable to earn a living and need some more overtime is the test. The sooner we deport you the better.
GMB says
Right. Interesting.
Hey have you found any evidence for this global warming fraud yet? Some scientist you turned out to be. How very embarrassing for you. All that constant lying.
SJT says
“We however think about getting about on reclaimed land with high-powered weaponry clamped to the side of our four-wheel-drive turbo-diesel motors.”
A laugh a minute.
Mark says
The current farce over the alarm about natural occuring ice-shelf fragmentation of 0.01% while the broader ice-shelf growth to record levels is unmentioned in the media is just too much.
So I just had to put this together:
James Mayeau says
I saw a run of a climate model, baselined to 1959. After 30 years it predicted a 0.01 degree temp rise. After 50 years, which would correspond to just about now, it showed pronounced regional warming over the Canadian Achipelago and an extreme cold spot over the Antarctic Peninsula, with an over all 0.6 degree temp rise. After 80 years it showed every damn place on Earth sweltering in NOAA flavored crimsom, except for Hokiado Japan, and the Larsen B ice shelf, Overall temp rise 2.6 degrees.
This was assuming a 1% per year rise in co2.
Ya, I saw it in an issue of Nat Geo. Can’t remember what issue, but it was soon after they stopped trumpeting the new ice age. That would put it somewhere in the late 80’s, early 90’s.
Wm. L. Hyde says
Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! All the trolls are still here. Oh well, I’ll check back in another month, ’cause Jennifer has a very good blog here, and I like to read it, but without the irritation of the troll stupidity. BTW SOD, you moron, AL Gore,(with his D- average in maths and sciences, before he went to Divinity school, and then dropped out of that, as well) is perfect to discuss climate with someone who knows nothing about it, because he would probably learn a lot, and he could sure use SOME knowledge about it!
Cheers….theoldhogger
GMB says
“Ya, I saw it in an issue of Nat Geo. Can’t remember what issue, but it was soon after they stopped trumpeting the new ice age. That would put it somewhere in the late 80’s, early 90’s.”
Thats about right. The relentless lying and bad science started about 1988. In the American summer after the liar Hansen, of the incompetent Goddard Institute, testified in front of Congress during a heatwave.
And then the relentless lying was brought up to fever pitch when all these genocidal Malthusian nutballs and non-stop liars like Wm L. Hyde got onto the internet.
Once they all get started its hard for them to lose momentum, since they start dreaming of getting everyone slaughtered like they did with DDT-bureaucratisation.
Schiller Thurkettle says
Al Gore may be a scientific illiterate, but he understands politics and money (or is there a difference?).
Why debate when he’s getting all the money he wants?
He’s an idiot, but he’s not a fool.
Luke says
GMB – only 182 votes – probably all accidental. Represents the the view of none of the Australian population. Opinions irrelevant. Wind bag-osity index high.
“Can’t remember what issue” – yea exactly !
Pssst – “Wm L Hyde” is on your side. Ever hear of “friendly fire”. You just shot up your own guy. At least try to work out who’s who. Not the first time you’ve done it either but I’m starting to feel sorry for your mates. And so you’ll be the responsible one getting around with a “turbo-diesel” with “high powered weapons” attached. Holy doley.
In any case – what sort of wussy right wing extremist would be seen dead in a turbo diesel – yech – a direct drive supercharged V8 running on premium octane with nitrous oxide boost surely. Even your extremism is wrong.
GMB says
You got anything useful to say Luke. Or are you just going to stand there with all that egg on your face?
You are a compulsive liar and an idiot and we have got to get you fired from your taxeating job.
Look how wrong you have been and how persistent you have been in your error???
You are just an embarrassment mate. You’ve made a fool of yourself all this time and the shame of it all is we still have to carry you on the payroll of the RMIT.
If you had any honour you’d go out the back and hang yourself with your own belt. If we go back in the archives here we just find example after example of your compulsive lying and non-evidence. You don’t even seem to know what evidence is. Go to Club Troppo and you ridiculously claim that those of us who go with evidence are having a punt.
We cannot continue with this pretense that people like you are not on the welfare. We simply have to get rid of the compulsive liars and dead wood such as yourself that dominate the public service. Don’t call yourself a “scientist” you are not even a science worker. You are a parasite and a compulsive liar.
Chris says
Great stuff Luke !!!
Just like that Dennis Leary song, Asshole, from a few years ago GMB will be fitting it out his gas guzzler with ‘whale skin hubcaps, all leather cow interior, and big brown baby seal eyes for head lights (yeah)’. Lets sing the chourus together GMB. You know the tune.
Luke says
182 !
Luke says
http://vtr.aec.gov.au/HouseDivisionFirstPrefs-13745-115.htm
I’m sorry GMB – but you have not met your AWA performance measures. To say your performance is not up to standard would be an understatement. I’m sorry but we’re going to have to let you go.
GMB says
By the end of this year the taxpaying public is going to be worrying much more about fuel prices than global warming. Particularly since they will have been freezing their ass off from here on in. I don’t know about you guys. You might not have gone into hiding by then. You might be still telling lies about global warming even as you walk around shivering. Because you are liars and idiots and incapable of learning anything.
But the taxpaying public will have gone cold on global warming.
The environmentalists have angled us into an energy crisis the likes of which probably hasn’t been seen since the middle ages. Millions will die overseas. The situation will be such that we cannot now maintain the illusion that we can carry you public sector bludgers on our backs. We cannot have you people raising new generations of parasites on the basis of the taxes we are now paying.
There is no substitute for mass-sackings people. We need the extra resources to be putting up these nuclear and liquified coal plants. We need to start now.
Once we have saturation nuclear we are quickly back in a cheap energy age. But that is two to three decades away from when we finally trash the environmentalist movement and have all the liars discredited.
We want to get started now with the dual-plant-investments, before we get caught in a high-energy-price vortex that would make the investments to solve the problem too difficult.
NO MORE FANTASISING.
We have got to stop this fantasy about reducing carbon emissions. If we have multiplied our emissions by three to five times by 2050 thats a good thing. We are not reducing emissions. We are multiplying them.
You leftists just have got to grow up and leave this childish rubbish behind.
We are looking at a 500% INCREASE in emissions and not an 80% decrease. No more fantasising. And get used to having to work for a living too.
GMB says
By the end of this year the taxpaying public is going to be worrying much more about fuel prices than global warming. Particularly since they will have been freezing their ass off from here on in. I don’t know about you guys. You might not have gone into hiding by then. You might be still telling lies about global warming even as you walk around shivering. Because you are liars and idiots and incapable of learning anything.
But the taxpaying public will have gone cold on global warming.
The environmentalists have angled us into an energy crisis the likes of which probably hasn’t been seen since the middle ages. Millions will die overseas. The situation will be such that we cannot now maintain the illusion that we can carry you public sector bludgers on our backs. We cannot have you people raising new generations of parasites on the basis of the taxes we are now paying.
There is no substitute for mass-sackings people. We need the extra resources to be putting up these nuclear and liquified coal plants. We need to start now.
Once we have saturation nuclear we are quickly back in a cheap energy age. But that is two to three decades away from when we finally trash the environmentalist movement and have all the liars discredited.
We want to get started now with the dual-plant-investments, before we get caught in a high-energy-price vortex that would make the investments to solve the problem too difficult.
NO MORE FANTASISING.
We have got to stop this fantasy about reducing carbon emissions. If we have multiplied our emissions by three to five times by 2050 thats a good thing. We are not reducing emissions. We are multiplying them.
You leftists just have got to grow up and leave this childish rubbish behind.
We are looking at a 500% INCREASE in emissions and not an 80% decrease. No more fantasising. And get used to having to work for a living too.
Luke says
But isn’t this a problem if only 182 people support you.
GMB says
No problem at all. You have become surplus to requirements. You always were. I don’t need to be running things for people to see this.
Give it another 90 days. Then we will expect another large hike in oil prices, with winter really biting, and people may start to wonder what good have you taxeaters done for us lately.
Its not as if it was just some of you idiots. Its wasn’t just the CSIRO or ABARE who screwed up with this racket.
Its been a taxeaters crusade more generally. Not just Federal parasitical liars. But State and Local as well.
Its about psychology. Once you guys start sponging off the rest of us, then you get to holding us in contempt, then you get to lying to us and promoting the biggest liars as great heroes.
So Flannery gets Australian of the year. Al Gore gets the Nobel Peace Prize. You don’t have to be a psychopath and mass-murderer to get the Nobel peace prize. But still it all helps.
So we have to hunt you all down and serve notice for you to clear your desks. And you will get out of their quickly if you want your tax voucher (no redundancy). Then your security pass will be made inoperable SO FAST and a restraining order slapped on you for good measure.
In your case you ought never have been let near an institution of learning in the first place.
Luke says
Yes but you’re forgetting one thing. There is only 182 of you (if that). What I think we might do is ignore you. And you’re gonna do what – nuttin’. Just like what you have achieved thus far. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Zilch.
You’re unrepresentative swill Bird. And a little ranter.
And funny thing about temperatures – wasn’t that a record busting heat wave just the other day in SA?
Randolph-Of-Roanoke says
Look Luke. People like to read the opinions of those who can reinforce their position with reason and science. If you are incapable of that don’t just keep answering back to get the last word in. You are watering down this thread even more than GMB is.
Ian Castles says
And another funny thing about temperatures, Luke. Weren’t the mean temperatures in SA in February 2008 the tenth lowest for the month, in the 59 years of records since 1950?
Luke says
Randy – not here you don’t mate. This is not a blog for science and reason.
Jan Pompe says
Randy – not here you don’t mate. This is not a blog for science and reason.
That might change if you leave Luke.
gavin says
“This is not a blog for science and reason” Ain’t that the truth hey
Been thinking the sceptics net is essentially a blokes thingy, lots of huffin n puffin and bugger all substance. Hunting round the internet for fresh victims has become a pack event however I reckon sex is simply off their menu back home.
Besides where are the ladies? The ones with real power of denial in whatever are absent in droves.
Jan Pompe says
gavin: lots of huffin n puffin and bugger all substance.
I’d be wary of the stones I throw if I were you; living in a greenhouse as you do you might accidently break something and let out all that hot air.
Wm. L. Hyde says
Whew! Just woke up and having my morning coffee. My head is spinning! What were we talking about again? Yuck, it’s -10C again, this morning! Usually the crocus are pushing up by the end of February, but there’s still a foot of snow on the flower beds, ditto on the vegetable garden, so stop bragging about the warm weather you guys get down under, you’re makin’ me feel bad.
BTW, Luke, thanks for standing up for me, buddy, I really didn’t realize my prose was so dense and difficult to understand. Actually, I’m not on GMB’s side either. I stand alone as a unique individual who seeks only knowledge and genteel discussion. May the Force be with you!
Cheers……theoldhogger
rog says
Well Luke there is only one of you, why dont you stand for parliament and do better?
You keep crapping on about fascists, time to put up or shut up.
SJT says
It’s like challenging the newsreader to a debate. Totally pointless, but a good stunt.
GMB says
“Been thinking the sceptics net is essentially a blokes thingy, lots of huffin n puffin and bugger all substance. Hunting round the internet for fresh victims has become a pack event however I reckon sex is simply off their menu back home.
Besides where are the ladies? The ones with real power of denial in whatever are absent in droves.
Posted by: gavin at March 30, 2008 09:05 PM”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
RRRRIIIIIGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTT
Gavin. You look like a gentleman who hasn’t been getting it in a very long time. You appear to be some sad loser who is probably 50 and still a virgin.
And you can say all this but why is it that you cannot come up with evidence to justify your manifest treason?
I myself am married, but you are a drone for sure.
Mr T says
GMB, I’m not siding with Gavin. However, can you see a major flaw in your argument?
“Gavin. You look like a gentleman who hasn’t been getting it in a very long time. You appear to be some sad loser who is probably 50 and still a virgin.
And you can say all this but why is it that you cannot come up with evidence to justify your manifest treason?”
Treat it like a logic exercise. Pretend you didn’t say it, but just look at what is written and see if you can locate any logical flaws…
GMB says
There are no logical flaws you idiot. I was retaliating against what he said. Which I wouldn’t have to do if dummies like you weren’t giving these leftist clowns a pass the whole time.
Now lets see some evidence or admit that the alarmists are wrong and the climate-rationalists are right.