Two bush turkey (Alectura lathami) chicks hatched from the pile of mulch in my back garden recently. I took this photograph yesterday in the back garden in Noosa. 
Footer
About Me
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
Read morePayPal
They have been hatching out here too, Jen. Just a few, and they look like Quail when you see them from a distance.
They are completely motherless and have to get by through their own instincts.
Mum lays the egg in Dad’s nest and he maintains the temperature by arranging the decomposing vegetation till the egg is hatched.
The wattled turk is hard at work,
The hens say see-you-later,
We’ll be back when all this tack
Works like an incubator.
Across species and within,
how many ways has tricky
Nay-churfound ter
bring forth and raise
the young. trial and error rules.
SD, yesterday, at the Yarra River, I saw an azure kingfisher.
A stones throw from the CBD, this is no small thing.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/china-coal-idUSL3N0K90H720140107
making a mockery of our useless attempts at controlling emissions and climate…….
“China approved the construction of more than 100 million tonnes of new coal production capacity in 2013 – six times more than a year earlier and equal to 10 percent of U.S. annual usage – flying in the face of plans to tackle choking air pollution.
The scale of the increase, which only includes major mines, reflects Beijing’s aim to put 860 million tonnes of new coal production capacity into operation over the five years to 2015, more than the entire annual output of India …
Chinese coal production of 3.66 billion tonnes at the end of 2012 already accounts for nearly half the global total, according to official data. The figure dwarves production rates of just over 1 billion tonnes each in Europe and the United States. “
What Google Searches Reveal about Tolerance in the Global Warming Controversy
I did 12 ‘binary’ searches. There were four first terms and three second terms. The results from searches on 1-12-14 include only the number of hits. However your mileage may vary. Google keeps track of your past searches, in order to determine your interests, and it uses this info in prioritizing and customizing results in your new searches.
Re-education Camps
“re-education camps” “global warming deniers” 6750
“re-education camps” “global warming skeptics” 653
“re-education camps” “global warming scientists” 1860
“re-education camps” “global warming alarmists” 195,000
Snuff film
“snuff film” “global warming deniers” 184
“snuff film” “global warming skeptics” 341
“snuff film” “global warming scientists” 2910
“snuff film” “global warming alarmists” 11,100
Capital punishment
“capital punishment” “global warming deniers” 63,800
“capital punishment” “global warming skeptics” 9230
“capital punishment” “global warming scientists” 135,000
“capital punishment” “global warming alarmists” 358,000
These bare-bones searches do not reflect who is advocating what, or who is complaining about the draconian advocacies of whom.
The first heading, Re-education camps, is reminiscent of the halcyon days of ‘Uncle Joe’ Stalin and Chairman Mao. /sarc
The second heading, Snuff film was inspired by the short video, No Pressure, put out by 10:10. Children who were not sufficiently enthusiastic about the holy crusade against Global Warming, were blown up. Needless to say, the splatter-fest was not well received, and was pulled shortly after it was put up. Fortunately, amateur Internet historians captured No Pressure for posterity. Imagine what the response would have been if Jewish school children had been blown up for not enthusiastically embracing JC! No Pressure is late 1930s Germany nostalgia, in my book.
The third heading, Capital punishment, is ironic. Global Warming believers tend to be Politically Correct. In the USA, Politically Correct people often call themselves ‘Progressives’. Progressives tend to be anti-death penalty. Apparently, for some Progressives, Heresy against Doctrine is a bigger crime than First Degree Murder!
That said, it’s been my experience that Progressives are considerably less tolerant of dissent than Climate Realists. Progressives con themselves into believing that they’re tolerant, because they’re not racists, and because they completely accept LGBT people. Some Progressives, can, in their own charming ways, out-Red-Neck Red Necks! I’ll leave it to future Google searchers to categorize and analyze the first few thousand results in each of the 12 searches, in order to verify or falsify my conjecture.
I have encountered one notable exception to my generalization about tolerance. A few years ago, Lubos expressed a violent sentiment with respect to a class of Global Warming believers. This is one reason why I don’t spend much time at his blog — even though he’s a very smart guy.
I have strong views about some things — including AGW. But compared with thousands of people who post their opinions about this topic on the Internet, I’m a flaming moderate! Like snow in England, will civility become a thing of the past? /sarc
Beautiful, Beth. Hope springs.
In the last 3 weeks we have had over 60 individual sightings of the Glossy Black Cockatoo feeding on our Casuarina torulosas. They’ve been MIA for ages.
I don’t know how many of you were born in a tent..with the tent-flaps open both ends and a dirt floor..But I believe most of us live in houses constructed and fitted out with our individual comforts in mind…air, dust, heating, cooling…(need I go on?)…But of course, we seek to create an environment most conducive to our requirements…
So how can anyone say with sincere intent, that humanity has not, in it’s seeking to create the most favourable conditions for itself in agriculture, production, lifestyle and city-planning…(need I go on?)…corrupted the biodiversity and the natural environment around the earth?
Surely, plain logic and our own sense of reason makes it as plain as the nose on our face that in the “collective” manipulation of our earthly environment from one that was considered harsh, cruel, brutal and short…we have brought about a dramatic change in atmosphere, landscape and sea.
In short, what we, as individuals have done in our own personal environment can sensibly be adjudged as transferable and magnified in the outside world so that climate variabilities have to be seen as man-made climate changes.
So Jennifer..being the biologist that you are..you must accept that the human body ultimately ; “is what it eats”…and if we eat crap food, we end up with crap health!…The earth is also a type of bio-organism, and humanity, in altering the chemical compounds that were naturally occuring, and pumping such compounds and gasses into the earthly body, we have, in short, fed our environment “crap food”….we are therefore responsible for the state of this earthly body.
Anthropogenic Global Warming is our baby….it is no still-birth, it is alive and kicking!
You would not believe how those turkeys can scratch in a bamboo grove. I’ve heard they can wipe out acres of shoots of the smaller and more tender species. They leave moso shoots alone, but my god they scratch.
Sadly, the weather’s gone dry again and they’re all back down in the gullies. Unless the six-foot goanna who lives in my roof rent-free is discouraging them. I can’t think why.
SD, I have a super-annoying bird which comes up with a new song every day and pipes it at my window – loud and early! It often flies and pecks at the glass. It’s grey green, mediium size, fairly plain and not one of the usual suspects such as noisy mynah. A huge mimic and show-off. Any ideas?
Hey JC have a look at Matt Ridley’s Greening the Planet video and perhaps there’s a chance you will begin to see the light. Those pesky facts are annoying.
http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/03/13/matt-ridley
SD I’m in the process of preparing a new thread on me Serf Under_ground Journal
“A Book of Feathers. Herewith me ‘Black Cockatoo:
Cockatoo funerous, your mournful cry – ‘kee aah’
Bespeaks the long history of ancestors,
Of Pangea and the shifting of continents,
Of separation from exotic kin, the flashy
Macaw cousins from Brazil.
Black cockatoo, in appearance you exemplify
The platonic fallacy of the perfect form of things-
Of birds, your helmet crest, remnant of dinosaur origin.
Your awkward form, less defined than
The shape of some more dazzling kin,
Of sulphur crested epigone. Your slow moving
Heavy flight, precursing the flight display
Of birds of prey, the dalliance of eagles.
Your diet, befitting mourning.
Not for you nectar of sweet blossoms.
Instead, hard-crack seeds, fruit of hard-times
From narrow-leafed trees of adversity.
At dusk a flock of funereuse choose the tops of trees
To roost in – jungian response to memories of tree-top foraging
By dinosaur predators. You thrumm your insecurity
In reassuring chorus until, exhausted, you sleep.
Do you then dream the dream of your ancestors?
bts
Er … a bit long, sorry Jennifer.
bts
Jeezus, Neville….talk about the compulsive gambler’s retinue of denial excuses…
Go “home” go to bed and sleep it off…but before you do, go speak to “Deb” about her ever increasing need for more irrigation water allocation!
Comment from: jaycee January 13th, 2014 at 2:28 pm
“The earth is also a type of bio-organism, and humanity, in altering the chemical compounds that were naturally occuring, and pumping such compounds and gasses into the earthly body, we have, in short, fed our environment “crap food”….we are therefore responsible for the state of this earthly body.
Anthropogenic Global Warming is our baby….it is no still-birth, it is alive and kicking!”
Hey, jaycee! Can you say, “Precautionary Principle?” No scientifically literate person believes in that superstition. Perfect safety comes at infinite cost. Hundreds of years ago, Paraclsus came up with a better approach:
“The dose makes the poison.”
The takehome: In formulating rational environmental policies, we ALWAYS need to balance the risks and costs against the benefits. I could predict a devastating Klingon invasion in the year 2020. Anyone who truly believes in the PP would have to advocate throwing billions of dollars at that particular risk.
Now, let’s get quantitative: What are the odds for the Klingon invasion? Too small to measure. The same as far CAGW, which has been falsified many times over. Your precious little Global Warming cycle has been dead, dead, dead for more than 15 years. Get over it.
Yes, there are legitimate environmental problems, but AGW is not one of them. Environmentalists are not smart enough to be wrong about everything.
Moreover your colorful QUALITATIVE analogy is NOT applicable to the QUANTITATIVE problem at hand.
JC, of course humans have a local and regional impact and it will add up to some global impacts as well. The only way to prevent that is to take us off the planet. Not many people think that is a good idea?!
land use changes and cities have a significant impact.
All of us here basically believe co2 is a greenhouse gas. without greenhouse gases none of us would be here. additional co2 does have a warming effect but at a diminishing rate, the physics is double co2 get about a 1c change in temperature. without positive feedback effects co2 is a complete red herring.
most people here have probably forgotten more than you know on the subject.
priceless comment Larry!
thx Nev, that Ridley clip sure doesn’t suit the doomsayers does it. Fancy having a positive outlook on life, humanity and the planet, it sure doesn’t suit the warmist cult does it? and makes a mockery of paul erhlic and his own doomsday apocalypse. ….JC take note of his points re biofuel. most human “solutions” will bring greater costs than benefits.
I suppose we can just leave JC in his own little fantasy world, devoid of facts and full of religious superstitions.
Ok for some I suppose but most would prefer a more educated approach.
Gaze upon the age old rhyme ye deniers and weep!
For want of a nail the shoe was lost.
For want of a shoe the horse was lost.
For want of a horse the rider was lost.
For want of a rider the battle was lost.
For want of a battle the kingdom was lost.
And all for the want of a horseshoe nail.
Your fate rests on the wisdom of a nursery rhyme!
didn’t have to wait long for the warmists to claim CAGW for the ‘heatwave’ and fires in WA.
No shame it seems.
very sane comments from R Underwood.
When you look at the location, you’d be wondering how on earth anyone is thinking building a house in that situation, and more importantly as Roger said, “no preparation no clearing”
Makes you think about the sanity (common sense) of people in general.
Climate Change and it’s effect on biodiversity….My!..That’s a big one!
Well, the name ; Climate Change speaks for itself. There’s no mistaking THAT title. But what of “Bio-diversity”? ..: Life-diversity..=Diverse life. What is that in regards to where we live and how will it be affected with slow or dramatic alteration?
Years ago, we purchased a bush block out in the deep mallee scrub. Some of it was regrowth, but there were stands of original mallee forest. After we purchased it we went for an “explore”. We walked down a track, on one side the evidence of regrowth, with its scattering of jagged limestone clusters, on the other much more dense and uniform mallee trees with the burnished silvered leaf-litter spread away inder the trees.
Something caught my eye and I turned off the track onto the leaf-litter. I had only gone about five steps in when I became aware of walking on a deep, soft bed of what must be undisturbed litter. Self-consciously, I back-tracked to the hard ground and looked where I had stepped.
My footprints had left an indelible impression on the litter, so soft and fragile was the organic makeup. On close examination, I could see the structure and substance of that delicate fabric spread wide over the forest floor. While the ground at my feet was dry and hard, the soil under the litter was moist, easily friable and composed of numerous tiny and minute insects feeding, no doubt, on many more decomposing insect, leaf-matter and fungi etc. Truly, the whole intricate composition of that sub-enviroment and the intertwined relationship with the insect kingdom had to be acknowledged as a natural work of art!
I stood up and stepped back to see the picture as a whole.
There above was the cloudy sky, then the mallee canopy down, down the silky branches to the scaly trunk and knobbly bole to the multilayered litter there on the forest floor. Each part there named adhered by an invisible tendon to the next and , as if in contractual agreement, one supplying the other with the necessities of life itself..take one away and break the link, the next will surely falter and, eventually, fail.
So that is what climate change most probably will do to such a specialised, interlinked enviroment. Especially now that it is already far stretched by the culled resources and erratic weather conditions experienced in the mallee.
Let us consider the poetical metaphor effect first promulgated by Edward Lorenz..that the infintestimal movement of air from the flapping of a butterfly’s wing may create a “ripple effect” much like a pebble dropped into a pond, whose link doth cause a hurricane a thousand miles away!….We need to “see” the biodiversity in the enviroment as a poet “sees” life in the stanzas he composes, and then indeed, will we be mesmerised by nature’s song!
Pay attention, my little chickadees…ol’ jaycee is goin’ to give you a bit of an education. Below are temperature measurements, taken by identical mercury thermometers, both inserted 25mm. into the soil, 500mm apart. One under loose leaf litter, the other in bare soil.
I did the testing because there was a problem in understanding why mallee seeds were not germinating readily outside the line of older mallee trees in the redundant, bare-ground farm soil. I did the test over seven days (on the days I was there working.hence the date gaps) in the middle of winter , 2013.
June 27th…high frost – sunny day…….am. noon.
mulch………9deg 11deg.
bare soil……3deg 15deg.
” 28th….cloudy……………….m……..9. 10.
b-soil…..7 13.
July 2nd..cloudy……………….m……..9. 14
b-soil…..9. 14.
” 4th……sunny……………….m……..8. 15.
b-soil….9 16.
” 6th…..frost-sunny………..m………6 11.
b-soil…..3 16.
” 12th……foggy/cloud………m………9 11.
b-soil…..9 15.
” 13th….sun/cloud………….m………11 13.
b-soil……10 17.
What stands out is the rather large vairable from the min’ to the max’ in the bare soil tests…and also note the comparative stable temp’ in the littered test. It is this variability, I believe, that affects the germination and survival of the mallee seedlings. And if you notice that under the mallee trees in a natural state, there is understory that serves as a coolant for the soil.
So there you are..no links, no “experts”, just the humble thermometer and observation. So those sudden heatwaves and then the frosty nights on that overgrazed, barren soil exacerbates the problem of regrowth…..Go ask Jennifer, she’ll tell you of the survival rates of spores and bacteria in greatly varying temps’.
JC I don’t want to distract you from your romantic notions about the Mallee etc, but here’s a rainfall graph of South Australia from 1900 to 2013.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rain&area=sa&season=0112&ave_yr=A
The period from the 1920s to 30s had a severe drought of fully 17 years of below average rainfall
I’m sure the Mallee areas had plenty to contend with during this long period and just proves how harsh the NATURAL climate can be.
We’ve seen nothing like it since that much drier period between the wars.
I had a very large turkey mound beside my cabin, when I was running the boats at Happy Bay resort on Long Island, in the Whitsundays. That old boy was very successful, with lots of visiting hens, & large number of chicks each year. This mound was in & around a clump of bamboo.
As mentioned the chicks are totally precocious, they are on their own from birth. I have seen one of those chicks, dig it’s way out of the mound, & immediately fly into a low nearby tree. It looked just like Jennifer’s photo, with no tail at all, but could still fly with fair control at only minutes old.
There were hundreds of the things on the island, & the young males gave us a real problem. They would start a new mound alongside guest units, even up against them. As many guests did not want to be that close to the wildlife, that could not be allowed.
No amount of removing their litter, or moving it to an acceptable nearby spot worked, once they had chosen their nest mound site, nothing would discourage them. They would drag it all back quite quickly. in just a day or two. Our only recourse was the removal of the bird.
While they are good eating, this was not our technique. We had a couple of traps, & once we had caught the current offenders, we would put on a guest trip to Lindeman Island. While the guests were ashore, we would run around to the northern side of the island, & put the boys ashore.
Lindeman was free of turkeys, too far from the mainland for them to fly in. However, I think one of our staff must have felt bad about our forced bachelor turkey settlement, as I’m sure I saw a few hens around the last time I was there.
Another example of soft hearted blokes was the sunbirds. These lovely little honey eaters, would build their teardrop nests in the human areas, the workshop, power house, & even hanging from the ceiling of the bosses office. They were seeking protection from the currawongs, who would come & tear the nests apart to eat the chicks once they hatched.
We had a big tough biker type running the power house at one time. He had built chicken wire enclosures around the nests in the workshop. This did not deter the sunbirds, but the currawongs were still trying to break through the netting.
A greenie type staff member came in there one day when I was making something, & saw the biker type bending up a Y shape from 5/8″ reo bar. When asked what he was making he said a catapult. When asked he said it was to fix the currawongs that were after his sunbirds.
The geeenie was horrified, & proclaimed he couldn’t do that, the currawongs were part of nature & he couldn’t interfere with it.
I will never forget that deep growling bikers voices saying, “well I’ve got news for them currawongs, I’m part of nature too, & I don’t like the bastards”. I wasn’t game to laugh at the time, incase the biker misunderstood why I was laughing, but I still get a chuckle from it to this day, 35 years later.
I luv bird stories almost as much as dog tails.
Hm, and good eating, Beth. Not that I would ever…
Just backing up Ridley’s numbers in his video. This is from Goklany’s graphs and this is deaths from global floods 1900 to 2010.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/sites/www.intellectualtakeout.org/files/imagecache/chart_content/Global%20Deaths%20and%20Death%20Rates%20from%20Floods.JPG
Amazing death numbers for 1930 to 39 and 1950 to 59. But last 50 years are very low. BTW there is a graph of total global deaths and extreme weather events account for about 0.03% in 2005. But I’ll try and find it.
Robert, that IS a mystery bird. I wonder if it could be a juvenile Bluefaced Honeyeater or possibly an immature Satin Bowerbird. Try and give us some markings.
Beth, those funereal yeller tail blacks are really something, aren’t they?
The plaintive wails of yeller tails
And wattle trees in ruins.
The secret tracks of Glossy Blacks
in torulosa chewin’s.
Hasbeen, there are times when you just have to take things in hand with those bully-birds.
Neville..as much as one has to respect your “astute linkage” skills…and indeed there was a slighdip in the rainfall av. in those years mentioned…according to my little stats’ book ; “The Statesman’s Pocket Year Book of Sth Aust’ 1960″…the rainfall ave’ had been dropping gently from the last part of the ninteenth century…to become quite erratic by the 1950’s…the wheat yeild, in contrast had risen steadily so that even in it’s worst rainfall year, the production ave’ was higher than some of the best years rainfall ave’s.
That being said…what it tells me is that there was an opening up of cropping areas that were then included in the rainfall calculations, thereby improving or detracting according to that areas readings.
So your graph may contain some area fluctuations that give a false reading to any “average” of the early years of the state.
But hey!….I know how you Luuurve those links!
SD They are somethin’ those yellow tails. The plaintive cry, so unlike the sulphur,
crested’s hysteria.
Robert, ter think yer’d … !
JC I’m only interested in the REAL numbers. Here’s south OZ rainfall trends since 1900. And that period of below average rainfall lasted for 17 years whether you want to believe it or not.
http://www.bom.gov.au/cgi-bin/climate/change/timeseries.cgi?graph=rain&area=sa&season=0112&ave_yr=T
BTW here’s the world’s deaths from all causes 2002. Deaths from extreme weather events are for 2000- 2006 and are 0.03% of all deaths or 3 hundredths of 1%.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/sites/www.intellectualtakeout.org/files/chart-graph/Global%20Deaths%20due%20to%20various%20causes%20early%202000s.png
Here’s the USA deaths from floods since 1903. You’ll note the total numbers in the 2000s are the lowest for at least 70 years and the death rates per 100 million are the lowest for 100 years.
http://www.intellectualtakeout.org/sites/www.intellectualtakeout.org/files/chart-graph/annual.png
Neville, I’m not going to get caught in your spider’s web of ; “I’ll ‘see’ your link and raise you two others”…I’m telling you that the rainfall figures in the early years were gathered from the agricultural areas by farmers and volunteers…according to my little stats’ book ; “The Statesman’s Pocket Year Book of Sth Aust’ 1960″, before 1905, they were gathered from 50 selected sites….so you can see there was a certain amount of discrepancy in what would constitute an average rainfall for the state and what was the “onground average” in any one particular area in those days.
This being what I would suspect was the common practice at the times, I doubt there were other “REAL numbers” out there to work with. So one has to have some doubt as to the “authenticity of your graph”.
By the way..did you ask “Deb” about her irrigation problems?
“Here’s the USA deaths from floods since 1903. You’ll note the total numbers in the 2000s are the lowest for at least 70 years and the death rates per 100 million are the lowest for 100 years.”
Could that have anything to do with the invention of “floaties” ?
So JC you just want to make up numbers on the run? I can see you dislike facts as much as silly Lukey. But you’re certainly a real straw clutcher supreme. What a joker.
Here is Indur Goklany’s most recent study on global extreme weather events etc. This is the abstract from the first page. This where Ridley gets his quote about the death rates from extreme weather events. In the second paragraph Goklany states that morbidity and mortality have declined 93%–98% since the 1920s.
The link to the study is here. http://www.jpands.org/vol14no4/goklany.pdf
ABSTRACT
Proponents of drastic greenhouse gas controls claim that human
greenhouse gas emissions cause global warming, which then
exacerbates the frequency and intensity of extreme weather events,
including extreme heat, droughts, floods, and storms such as
hurricanes and cyclones.
In fact, even though reporting of such events is more complete
than in the past, morbidity and mortality attributed to them has
declined globally by 93%–98% since the 1920s. In the U.S., morbidity
and mortality from extreme weather events peaked decades ago.
Depending on the category of extreme weather event, average
annual mortality is 59%–81% lower than at its peak, while mortality
rates declined 72%–94%, despite large increases in the population at
risk. Today, extreme weather events contribute only 0.06% to global
and U.S. mortality. These improvements reflect a remarkable
improvement in society’s adaptive capacity, likely due to greater
wealth and better technology enabled in part by use of hydrocarbon
fuels. Finally, mortality from extreme weather events has declined
even as all-cause mortality has increased, indicating that humanity is
coping better with extreme weather events than it is with far more
important health and safety problems.
Jeezus!…how morbid, Neville…you’re like some latter-day Sweeny Todd…..when you’re not too busy teaching your grandmother how to suck eggs!
Hey!..don’t the rest of you get shirty!..I tried to be friendly…I tried to be nice…but geez!!, it’s like patting a bindii-eye bush!
And I didn’t “make up numbers on the run”…those figures are from ; ” my little stats’ book ; “The Statesman’s Pocket Year Book of Sth Aust’ 1960″.
Jaycee,
if that was your idea of engaging me in a discussion. . . I would suggest you might like to rethink your technique.
At this juncture. . .you are very clearly not worth my time or effort.
JC do you have any clues at all? I’m showing you how much better off everyone is if we use cheap abundant energy, but you obviously don’t get it.
This is a cause for celebration not to be morbid or pessimistic like you are. BTW these are all peer revieved reports by Goklany, he doesn’t have to make things up.
Modeled Antarctic sea ice trends were wrong again. Gee what a surprise, NOT.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V17/N2/C1.php
The IPCC AR5 has weakened the case for AGW. The case for AGW SLR increase is ridiculous.
http://judithcurry.com/2014/01/06/ipcc-ar5-weakens-the-case-for-agw/#more-14295
But they do agree that the warming in the Arctic from 1920 to 1930s was similar to the 1990s to 2000s. But the earlier warming rate has been shown in PR studies to be 50% higher than recent warming.
JC – I’m sorry – I think I helped create Neville. He’s getting good from having been reamed out so much. Dry wit and independent thought is next.
“At this juncture. . .you are very clearly not worth my time or effort.”
Of course such a fatuous statement would have to be peredicated on a presumption that both your time AND effort had ANY value whatsoever outside your own egotistical opinion!
But hey!….I’ll let you sail with that wind..it’s the only one you have…I don’t require YOUR approval whatsoever…ok?
Luke…..Well, like the well-intentioned creator of Frankenstein, one cannot be blamed if one’s good intentions go haywire!…..I don’t hold it against you..I just trust HE doesn’t take the liberty to hold himself against you! (perish the thought!).
“At this juncture. . .you are very clearly not worth my time or effort.”
Of course such a fatuous statement would have to be predicated on a presumption that both your time AND effort had ANY value whatsoever outside your own egotistical opinion!
But hey!….I’ll let you sail with that wind..it’s the only one you have…I don’t require YOUR approval whatsoever…ok?
Luke…..Well, like the well-intentioned creator of Frankenstein, one cannot be blamed if one’s good intentions go haywire!…..I don’t hold it against you..I just trust HE doesn’t take the liberty to hold himself against you! (perish the thought!).
I do hope the two identical comments came from the same IP address. One gets so confused at times.
This was an interesting thread till JC came along.
sp – engaging is a choice. You can show leadership and steer the conversation with a brilliant flourish of illumination. Strike out valiant sir. Don’t follow the chop left by the wake of our boats.
I mean it’s really filler isn’t it – just waiting for Cohenite or RichardNZ to turn up and give me a run for it. I really like RichardNZ’s pompous style. “Oooo Yes Jennifer – I’ve dealt with these types before. Tut tut”.
What like this – we’re animals – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grh0tlJtViw
More records broken I see http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-14/south-east-australia-sizzles-as-heatwave-takes-hold/5199714
ABC commo source though – probably needs Ken Stewart to sort it out.
Robert, could it be a female satin bower bird?
Hasbeen, they are indeed very determind birds, bushturkeys… And friendly.
Jaycee, carbon dioxide is not a pollutant and the Australian landscape is generally better off when managed to some existent… read Bill Gammage’s book ‘the greatest estate on earth, how aborigines managed the Australian landscapes’ …
While there are plenty of heat horror stories around years like 1939 and 2009, Melbourne’s most sustained heatwave occurred in January 1908 when temperatures reached 39.9°C, 42.8°, 44.2°C, 40.0°C, 41.1°C and 42.7°C on 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 January. (According to WMO and BoM.)
At the same time in 1908, Adelaide, wouldn’t you know it, chalked up seven days at an average max of 43.243! (There was a much longer but sub-40 heat wave in 2008, and an even hotter but shorter heatwave in 1906. But get this: they also had a 6 day heatwave earlier in January 1908, at 41.75!) It’s a naughty old continent on a naughty old planet, isn’t it?
Jen, female bower bird is a good call, but this noisy mimic looks too drab, almost grey, and is maybe a bit small. Otherwise I think you’d be right. It started up a year or so ago, and it seems to want to put on shows of new songs, when it’s not battering windows.
Robert..: “…It’s a naughty old continent on a naughty old planet, isn’t it?”
“Oh, beehaave!…”
Jennifer…I , being of small extent in the world of higher ed’, usually defer to those more qualified to give their learned opinion on any one subject. However, in your response that co2. is not a pollutant, I am wont to press forward the concept that while what you say is true in the abstract, the same could be said for nitrogen and oxygen….both, however, can be fatal to the human body if taken in excess….but hey!..you already know that, so I guess your response was to provoke a discussion.
So here’s one..: Forget all these links that are in reality other people doing your thinking for you and consider this ; What do YOU see around you that tells YOU that human activity is not one of the primary instigators of climate disruption.
I’ll give you a start…I first got an inkling something was wrong years ago when old Joe Maroni announced in a perplexed and defeated voice ; “I can’t understand it….for the first time ever, I have not been able to grow my own tomato seedlings. I will have to go and buy some from the nursery”………..He then went on to detail several other “strange goings on” in his pride and joy vegi garden….but it was the tomato thingi that stuck in my thoughts….you see…Joe was a peasant from South Italy….he only did three main things in his life…He worked at Holdens (Woodville) raised a family under the blessings of church and state and tended his vegi garden….so you see, it was not a small thing , this failure of the seedlings…it was a failure of one of the fundamentals of his three pillars of identity.
Sure, you can laugh…and I agree..such a life could be seen as tragic…but if you see it another way..I would trust more the sea-pilot who knew the channels by a lifetimes experience than trust my fate to a gung-ho with a sonar reader!
So in the end, when we make an assesment of the little world around us, we have to observe and assess and conclude without assistance from any “links” and “videos” from others.
So tell me Jennifer…et all…what had convinced you personally that there is no such thing as Anthropogenic Climate Change?
Birds do some very funny things sometimes. A few years ago I heard a lot of screeching at my back door and found 2 crows trying to attack their images in my big sliding glass door.
I tried everything to chase them away but I only stopped them after covering the door with newspaper.
After about 4 days I removed some of the paper then the rest and I haven’t seem them since. But they were very upset at the time and wanted to get at their images with gusto.
Well JC stop talking about fruit and veges, both by the way we produce in massively higher tonnages by fewer people than even 30 years ago. Plus just about every other food crop on the planet as well.
So tell us why you believe some AGW is really CAGW? And then tell us how to mitigate your feared CAGW.
A domestic turkey (young male) at my neighbour’s place was being attacked, murderously and constantly, by his whole family, including his mother. After being separated into his own pen, he was found to have deformed feet.
Now all that young turkey wants to do is get back with his family…so they can kill him.
A good interview by Tom Switzer yesterday on 2GB about his article in the SMH.
http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/28171#
This is such a rare event for the normally silly SMH I thought I should provide a link for the excellent column by Tom Switzer. Commonsense in the SMH, will wonders never cease? BTW Tom like myself and the majority of sceptics also believes in some moderste warming from increased co2 emissions.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/game-finally-up-for-carboncrats-20140113-30qqo.html
“…So tell us why you believe some AGW is really CAGW?…” But Neville!…I asked first!….but that’s ok..I can see by your generic ans’ YOU have no answer for your belief.
Well….I’ve written a few hints here in earlier posts, but I suppose, to cut a long story short..I live in the house, on the land that was owned and settled by family ancestors back in c. 1880. I have the anecdotes, the geography, the farm history, the family history, the area history, the pics, the rainfall stats, the tree-clearing history, the infrastructure evidence, the slow-train-wreck results of all of the above over five generations and the same could be said for every family in the entire Hundred of….I have the flood history and the salinity history as I have the names of dozens and dozens of the other families that settled out here in this unsuitable for farming area….and I can say without a doubt…either those early settlers knew nothing of farming (which is mostly true) or those early administrators were pulling a swifty over those early settlers (which is mostly true also!).
Armed with that history and making my own observations over fifty years or so…I can tell you without ANY doubt in MY mind, we humans, collectively, have started something that is spiraling way out of control!….So if I flippantly mention the Goyder line moving from east to west…believe me…it has!…how much? I leave to those more allied to the field.
And While the only Phd. I have is of the Post-hole-digger kind, I can tell you, one can learn a lot by being down on one’s knees clearing out a post hole….I would suggest, Neville, that you sometimes take a break from your “one-handed” typing and go outside and dig the earth a bit…perhaps get down on your knees and observe what comes out of the bottom of a post-hole!
We have a young galah hanging around our place which either fell out or got tipped out of its nest.
It has a slightly deformed beak so I’m guessing it was probably tipped out.
It’s a canny little survivor though. . .it has sort of teamed up with the swamp fowl (we call them ‘bald coots’ here) that live around our house dam. . ,and has somehow managed not to be taken by foxes and/or feral cats.
The weather has turned sweltering here (which the rice absolutely loves) . . .but that abandoned baby galah is still hanging in there.
Jaycee. . .thanks for confirming my original assessment.
Luke. . .if it’s not you playing silly sock puppet games. . .perhaps you could explain to Jaycee that irrigators are not forever wanting more water. . .that in actual fact they have given more water than any other demographic to be used for other purposes. . .including ‘the environment’.
Maybe you could suggest he come and visit the MIA and assess for himself what dreadful climate damage has been wreaked on this area rather than slinging off incredibly ‘old hat’ ‘last century’ ad homs and memes?
You also might like to explain to Jaycee that a veg garden in the Woodville area may indeed be having problems with human pollution. . .that may indeed have affected someone’s tomatoes. . .good chance however that it wasn’t CO2 or CAGW. . .and that it would be a local problem. . .not a nationwide problem. If the ‘several years ago’ was when SA was gripped by drought (say between 2004 and 2010?). . .well duh!. . . tomatoes don’t grow well in drought.
Drive a few hours north to the Echuca area and look at the amazing tomato crops there and while you’re at it, visit the Cedenco factory and look at the amazing industry that has been developed around tomatoes.
But I guess in Jaycee’s mind. . .that would be an example of humanity wreaking some type of nationwide climate harm?
JC I don’t think I’ll bother looking for CC at the bottom of your post hole. I know the climate changes and your area of the world has been drying out for the last 5,000 years at least, interspersed with shorter wetter periods. The last WP about 1,000 years ago. See ABC thousand Year Drought -Catalyst. The climate does change, get used to it.
BTW another UN head dill thinks that totaltarian, undemocratic , one party states like China are better at fighting CAGW than democracies like the USA. DUH??????
http://motls.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/unfcc-boss-democracy-is-very.html?m=1 Just another stupid numbskull that hasn’t even graduated up to simple kindy level maths. Can’t this nong even read or understand simple graphs, the USA are flatlining to 2035 while China’s co2 emissions are soaring.
You see!!…That’s what you get for ‘talking” to the monkeys and not the organ grinder!…
Jennifer…You got the quallies’, you got the Phd., you tell me…forget your alliegence to the IPA. or the H.R.Nicholls soc. or that plethora of other networking fraternity…..I’ll forget the “personality / photo-shoot style makeover” and see you as the Biology graduate that you are…now you tell me…from your studies over the last..many years..through the “business end” of a microscope or in general observation, there has been no influence on the spores and bacteria and plants and sundry fauna/flora that says ; something “artificial” is causing some deviation of natural progression in these species.
You can send me an email with your opinion if you like…but pls’ NO LINKS!!..you.ve got it.
Baz earlier gave 13 checkpoints for CAGW, none of which involved actual temperatures. he also gave us “6 independent lines of evidence that climate sensitivity is close to 3 give or take”.
Interesting how he sees one thing and yet Judith Curry does not. “The IPCC AR4 conclusion on climate sensitivity is stated as:
“The equilibrium climate sensitivity. . . is likely to be in the range 2oC to 4.5oC with a best estimate of about 3oC and is very unlikely to be less than 1.5oC. Values higher than 4.5oC cannot be excluded. .”
The IPCC AR5 conclusion on climate sensitivity is stated as:
Equilibrium climate sensitivity is likely in the range 1.5°C to 4.5°C (high confidence), extremely unlikely less than 1°C (high confidence), and very unlikely greater than 6°C (medium confidence)
It is significant that the AR5 does not cite a best estimate, whereas the AR4 cites a best estimate of 3oC. The stated reason for not including a best estimate in the AR5 is the substantial discrepancy between observation-based estimates of ECS (lower), versus estimates from climate models (higher). Figure 1 of Box 12.2 in the AR5 WG1 report shows that 11 out of 19 observational-based studies of ECS show values below 1.5oC in their ranges of ECS probability distribution.
Hence the AR5 reflects greater uncertainty and a tendency towards lower values of the ECS than the AR4.”
Maurice Newman has another excellent article today that makes this point “The modellers and the IPCC have willingly ignored the evidence of low climate sensitivity for many years … The discrepancy between models and observations is not a new thing … just one that is becoming more glaring over time.” http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/
opinion/mother-nature-suggests-the-partys-over-for-ipcc/story-e6frgd0x-1226801761168
now I know Baz you don’t stoop to reading the Australian, but perhaps if you did your theory induced blindness or group think would start to lift?!
“Spencer is joined by celebrated Massachusetts Institute of Technology climatologist Richard Lindzen, who says: “I think that the latest (AR5) IPCC report has truly sunk to a level of hilarious incoherence. They are proclaiming increased confidence in their models as the discrepancies between their models and observations increase.”
The deniers are truly those that accuse others of not believing in the likelihood of catastrophic consequences from additional co2. The case has fallen down around you and yet like limpets you cling to the theory and call the realists names.
And YOU ; nick, or Neville or whatever..I suggest you download an app. of a bullshit-meter..but get one that reads past a thousand, as Mine doesn’t and when I ran your reply through it, it burst it’s spring!
You know, out here in the donga, we used to get “travellers” coming through….and you’d be just off the paddock, in weather like this (Mad-dogs, Farmers and Englishmen etc.), having a second beer (the first was as Noah pissing from the poop-deck into the flood!)..and if he’s talking bullshit…cripes, it comes over loud and clear…like your vid of the other day…where that silly prick says(wtte) “…even the Amazon got greener”…..well!..there you go!…even the Amazon got greener??…I thought I’d give THAT theory the acid test and I went and stood on the back verandah and gazed over the bottom paddock, looking for the verdant sheen….but nothing…as bare and brown as Sammy Davis Jnr’s backside….oh yeah!..’cept for a sopt in one corner by the trough…but I already know that’s a patch of caltrop that I better get on to!
Toby I think you’re wasting your time with JC , he’s busy trying to find fairies at the bottom of his post hole to prove CAGW.
Your Newman column is a beauty and this should be a more direct link.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/mother-nature-suggests-the-partys-over-for-ipcc/story-e6frgd0x-1226801761168
If any more evidence really was required of where the group think lies this is it. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/cutandpaste/dont-blame-me-im-the-deputy-editor-climate-change-turns-smh-staff-past-and-present/story-fn72xczz-1226801793445
“Don’t blame me, I’m the deputy editor … climate change turns SMH staff past and present
CUT & PASTE THE AUSTRALIAN JANUARY 15, 2014 12:00AM
SHOCK horror. Fairfax publishes article by climate denier … and a Twitter witchhunt begins.
Crickey discovers Fairfax has let a fox in the chicken coop:
MEET John McLean, the Big Oil-backed climate-change denier who managed to sneak an oped into Fairfax papers.
Former Sydney Morning Herald journalist Margo Kingston tweets:
HOW did this happen?
Ben Cubby, deputy editor, SMH:
I WASN’T around. We publish skeptic opeds from time to time.
Kingston:
DON’T you have a policy to disclose affiliations, check bona fides, correctness of bio?
Cubby:
MAYBE check w/opinion editors.
Wendy Bacon, academic and journalist:
THINK Ben away & not relevant editor but good question. Reg eds on hols?
Kingston:
TWITTER handle for opinion editor?
Cubby:
HELEN Pitt. Not sure if she’s on Twitter.
Cubby:
REMEMBER it’s opinion, so not held to same standards as news reporting.
Tweeter Sandra@abissicus:
SNEEKILY sliding it in when reg staff on hols. SMH The Age value their credibility?
Tweeter iwhispterloudly:
SKEPTIC & deniers are quite different. Skeptics question whereas deniers deny evidence supported facts.
Bacon:
NEEDS explanation but haven’t seen one. Readers’ editor.
Cubby:
NOT that old chestnut
Tweeter Inga Ting:
TRUE. But The Age homepage gave it top spot. Not good.
Cubby:
CLIMATE change opinion are the ultimate clickbait.
SMH education editor Josephine Tovey:
HELEN is away on holiday too. Maybe email the SMH/Age opinion address.
Kingston:
BUT surely transparency of affiliation, correctness of bio a must?
Cubby:
DEFINITELY still are! see UTS research by @wendy-bacon.
Kingston:
IS there a deputy opinion editor?
Tovey:
NO, different journalists would fill in when the ed is away.
Bacon:
GIVEN sceptic Spooner cartoon with piece, maybe came out The Age not SMH originally.
Cubby:
GOOD stuff – it seems to be hotting up. major story.
Journalist Samantha Gilberto:
SKEPTICS don’t hide – we are harassed, ridiculed, often sacked and denied a forum in mainstream leftwing media.
Kingston:
MY first blockade, hope to survive the heat.
Gilberto:
SO much for the strength of ur argument – you won’t debate AGW just fire cheap shots from the safety of the ABC.
Gilberto:
Q&A made a big mistake letting Suzuki take on a real climate scientist, Prof Franks carved him up like Sushi!!
Cubby:
NEVER mind, truth always wins out in the end.
SMH journalist Kathryn Wicks:
THAT was The Age, not us.”
If you still think it is sceptics suffering from Groupthink, you need to take a serious look at your bias…..and start apologising for the damage you have all done to real science with your pseudo sceince
Nev you are right I am sure, we are wasting our time. you have to wonder about somebodies cognitive skills when they can turn a clip on co2 causing greening in the amazon ( a very interesting link thx!) to looking at the bottom of a paddock for green in January during an ozzie heat wave. enough said……..
Jc thinks the world is flat. He wonders why he can’t see further than his back paddock horizon. Gawwwrrrddd help us. Ridley looked at the satellite data to PROVE that the world is GREENER and quoted the studies that backed up the data and images. Are you awake yet?
Debbie….I like the Hay plains..I like the way the trees suddenly stop after you leave Balranald and you got that flat, wide expanse of plain…virtually horizon to horizon…I like open space..I find deep forest a tad claustrophobic. And I like Hay too!…I could live there…with the “Bidgee” ( I hope you won’t mind my pinching your vernacular?) just behind there…We stop overnight every time we go through to the east …and I talk to people there..I talk a lot, don’tcha know?..and they tell me things…things like you’re not telling us here about the MIA. and it’s water-table problems and the volume and variety of entrepreneurial schemes both succesful and failed…cripes!..there’s been a few, eh, Debbie?…you must be one of the success stories, eh, Debbie?…and they are a proud lot…you might say..Oh..wtte…” So, how’s the Murrumbidgee going ?”…and you see their chest puff-up all proud like…and why not…this is THEIR country you are talking about…their land, their work…their home..and good luck to them….so expect nothing from some but good news!
But just on the subject of denying even to ourselves what may be the bleedin’ obvious…a bit of Bukowski..:
“…and the sun comes crashing into the bar-car like a
bull and the bartender sees that
I am feeling good
he smiles a real smile and
asks –
“How’s it going?”
how’s it going/ my heels are down
my shoes cracked
I am wearing my father’s pants and he died
ten years ago
I need 8 teeth pulled
my intestine has a partial blockage
I puff on a dime cigar
“Great!” I answer him,
“how you making?”
glory glory glory and the train rolls on
past the sea…”
Jaycee,
That looks like you are incorrectly assuming that people here are trying to argue that where humans live or have lived. . . they DON’T have any impact on their immediate/local environment.. .and further it looks like you are assuming that Jen is tolerating such an argument. . .with a further inference that it has something to do with her networks and employment status (past and present)
NEWS FALSH!!!!!!
OF COURSE (!) humanity influences/impacts its local environment. . .it is one of humanity’s NATURAL traits and can be traced right back to the cave man days.
A herd of elephants will impact the local environment too. . .as will an anthill . . . a particular species of tree/plant. . .a tiny pathogen. . .or anything else you could care to name.
At times those impacts are negative for other species in that immediate environment and at others they are mutually beneficial at others they are spectacularly successful and at others somewhere else in between all of those.
Short of removing the human race from the planet. . .Humanity will ALWAYS influence and attempt to enhance the immediate environment.
Same argument applies to elephants and ants etc
BTW. . you do realise don’t you that your old mate Joe Maroni, who created a veggie patch, most definitely had an influence:
” on the spores and bacteria and plants and sundry fauna/flora” in his area and also that he most definitely caused:
” some deviation of natural progression in these species” in his area?
You know that Tomatoes don’t naturally grow in the SA Woodville area don’t you?
????????????
Jaycee
Three days ago I was eating my own home grown tomatoes in Noosa. There is something special about gardening. I have been doing it off and on all my life. Move house, take plants and seeds with me. I’m currently in Sydney. Looking forward to getting back to noosa to the tomatoes. Should be returning, to central Queensland, but won’t be able to easily mange to leave Noosa as so many large green tomatoes still on the bushes. Some claim I have trouble sorting my priorities.
As regards why I doubt AGW. It is all to do with the detail in the data, in particular the official rainfall and temperature data for Australia. I have spent a lot of time looking at this data from different perspectives for over 10 years. Not modelled output, or summaries, but actual numbers.
Cheers,
LOL!
ROFL!!!
🙂 🙂 🙂
“things like you’re not telling us here about the MIA. and it’s water-table problems and the volume and variety of entrepreneurial schemes both succesful and failed…cripes! …”
and. . .
“so expect nothing from some but good news!”
You really have some catching up to do Jaycee. . .As I previously commented. . .rather ‘old hat’ and ‘last century’.
But a little hint. . .yes. . .there is a proud history out here. . .but NO ONE thinks that it’s perfect and that there haven’t been some MISTAKES that need fixing and ALSO that there haven’t been some DREADFUL policy initiatives that have not lived up to ANYONE’s expectations (that basically need scrapping rather than any attempt to try and fix)
Thank you Jennifer…enjoy those toms’!
Thank you Debbie..enjoy those (ad)Hom’s !
Deb, those coots can be very aggressive, with a fast, strong peck. I’ve had them come at me around nesting time, though otherwise they leave humans alone. The galah’s a show if he hangs with the coots, who seem to be a tolerant lot, always having to mix it with other species on water holes.
Let’s presume that Luke, bazza and JC are correct and everyone suddenly agrees and we have a 100% CAGW consensus from the EU, USA, OZ etc .
Now can any of the above tell us what should be done to fix the problem, plus when we will see a result and the cost by 2100? 16 to 1 anyone? But this should be good ZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Toby @ 9.59am Newman article.
Say, when the actual (observations)
and the virtual (models) differ
witch do yer believe?
Yes Robert,
They can be aggressive, but they’re not particularly good at flying so need to protect themselves.
They’re really cute little things though. . .and I enjoy watching them scurry to and fro as they go back and forth from our house dam (that they have made their home).
Sometimes in this area they can get to plague proportions and cause some problems in the summer crops.
Jaycee,
Along with my suggestion about your method of engagement. . .I now also suggest (with respect of course) you look up the definition of ad Hominem . . .oh never mind. . .let me do it for you….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem
Well Neville – if it’s CAGW – the cost of damage is several bazillion.
The answer is new gen nuclear (various technologies). Which will cost less than the bazillions.
Is there a pathfinder example – France.
Your philosophy is you always have one finger on the scales, and don’t believe in collective action or making a start. And you project now as 2050 or 2100 – it ain’t.
Jaycee – the definition of ad hom is that any insult made by a sceptic is fine but not in reverse. Debbie plays good cop and lets others do bad cop. If she was serious she’d call others on behaviour – never a squeak.
Luke I think Debbie may be telling you the story of the pot and the kettle. I know I can be a bit rough at times but I abhor anyone yapping unsubstantiated BS that just doesn’t add up.
But I do agree that we should look at new safe nukes and spend more on R&D and adaptation. But we must follow the EU and Germany ( I can’t believe I’m saying this) and cut all subsidies for solar and wind immediately. We’ve wasted billions on this rubbish and it is money flushed straight down the drain.
But in the interim ( even one new nuke is probably 20 years away) we should also follow Germany etc and build new coal power stns as required. If gas is available we could build them as an alternative to coal if required.
But you know and I know it can’t make zip difference to the climate or temp for centuries ( probably thousands of years) because our small reductions are swamped 16 times over by the soaring non OECD emissions.
Nope technology is here now. Why do you want to continue to recklessly increase atmospheric CO2. Answer coz power stations are cheap to build. Well that’s less than half of the story.
You are advocating irreversible changes and are so reckless.
New nuclear is here now – it’s political not so much technological.
As I said – you don’t believe in ever making a start do you? Any start will be by definition small. So in Nev’s sophisticated brain – let’s never start.
Luke,
No, that’s incorrect. . .I’m not a fan of ad homs in any direction.
But when they’re directed at me . . .or I am accused of using them. . .then I will sometimes have something to say about it.
I sometimes also will say something about ad homs when they’re used, very transparently, as a cheap diversionary tactic.
It actually isn’t up to me to ‘call out’ everyone else. . . because despite your assertion otherwise. . .I am not the ad hom police.
Perhaps you could start by convincing the political environmental movement about nuclear energy Luke?
I don’t believe it is a policy platform of theirs?
http://greens.org.au/search/node/nuclear%20energy
Doesn’t look like the Greens are interested anyway.
‘Aiming for 100% renewable energy …’ says Greens MP John Kaye – (Sydney
Morning Herald 15’11’13. )
Matt Ridley in ‘ The Rational Optimist’ Ch 7, ‘The release of slaves.’ 🙂 notes
the surprising fact that fossil fuel energy is less destructive of landscape than
renewable energies.
‘To get an idea of just how land-scape eating the renewable alternatives are,
consider that to supply just the current 300 million of the inhabitants of the
United States with their current power demand of roughly 10000 watts each,
(2400 calories per second,) would require:
* solar panels the size of Spain.
* or wind farms the size of Kazakhstan.
* or woodlands the size of India and Pakistan
* or hayfields for horses the size of Russia and Canada combines
* or hydroelectric dams with catchments one third larger than all the continents put together.’
…Say, it’s not easy bein’ green.
JC, on the subject of local impacts, I am wondering what’s going on here in Canberra. I might be imagining this, but this summer around my place we are missing;
grasshoppers
butterflies
cicadas
bees
Now, I’ve not really paid attention in the past but I am pretty sure there used to be more around than this year. Too hot/dry for them?
And I’m still not seeing any dead birds either! 🙂
Good grief Luke get a grip on reality. Your argument is with the Greens and Labor not me. And please try to understand the Non OECD kindy maths reality of soaring emissions. You’re making a fool out of yourself.
A lot of smoke in the sky today, blowing in from SA. Funny stuff that carbon, normal in a bushfire, bad in a steam exhaust from the power station keeping us airconned , right now.
Got an electric computer Jaycee ?
Yeah , I see you are back.
Turn the power off at the main and give us your day by day progress, mate.
Be like the Guardian dill on the ice–
“I have this tiny bunk and I am sore all over, I jammed my leg in the cabin door last night, (how ? the ship was stopped. Pissed ? ) and we are stuck in the ice. Oh God,it is horrible” or somesuch.
Jaycee is the Goyder line a bit warm this week ? Mate, it will keep moving . Weather is not the same in one place, every year. Goyder lines etc , even though brilliantly conceived VARY.
How is your ROCKET crop going this year ? Bet it is in trouble, with all the scientific interference.
I truly hope that you are not one of those farmers, caught in a drought- debt cycle and about to take drastic steps.
You can always go to Sydney and ask for your topsoil back.
Thommo!…My!..he’s the witty one!….as a matter of fact, I have a bank of solar panels feeding a bank of batteries and then into an inverter to feed the 240 volts into my computer. You do have to keep an eye on the charging and the battery charge level, but it is useful on those days when the power cuts out.
But say!…You are a funny one…sort of…ifn I was to compare your attempts at humour against any I would want to make…it would be akin to that scene in Crocidile Dundee, where the youth pulls the switch-blade on Dundee and his girlfriend and Dundee says ; “That’s not a knife!…THIS…is a knife!” and he flashes his emormous blade……….bad news, Thommo…; you’re not Dundee, you’re the other one!
Debbie…That bit about (ad)Hom’s…I just used that abbreviation ’cause it rhymed with ; “Tom’s”…I first had just ; “Hom’s”..but then I thought “crikey!…she’ll think i’m implying she entertains a lot of men!….so i thought I’d plonk that bit in front…sorr it upset you so much…but hey!….: heat, kitchen, that sort of thing…
really Debs – on nuclear some very big greenies think not. Also same on GMO.
Can you be a environmentalist and not be pronuclear !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pXiiQBknHM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDw3ET3zqxk
http://bravenewclimate.com/
Nev – anyone who cuts and pastes Tisdale or Watts or Bolt has already made of a fool of themselves.
Here’s an interesting file for you to ponder, Matt Ridley and Freeman Dyson on fracking.
http://www.thegwpf.org/images/stories/gwpf-reports/Shale-Gas_4_May_11.pdf
Heat waves are getting hotter and longer. I look forward to the figures.
Steve McIntyre’s ship of fools is a very good read if you have the time. Sums up Turney and the other donkeys very well.
http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/15/ship-of-fools/
Whatever happened to those wonderful dust storms we had years ago? Got caught in one between Cobar and Wilcannia 35 yrs ago, but I am told they were real bastards way back.I also recall hearing of deposits (red strata) way up on the Tasman glacier which were laid down after tracking in NW.
[Whatever happened to those wonderful dust storms we had years ago?]
Drill seeding, stubble retention and no more overstocking.
Luke…flogging a dead horse, surely, on nuke energy….the good thing, or bad thing depending on your share portfolio, about solar / wind energy is no fuel costs!….consider that for the future…construction / maintenance / payoff “sick people” :)….then …no fuel costs.
I envisage future homes will have a roof that is one complete solar panel..feeding into a module / cabinet containing some sort of battery storage / inverter and the whole house AND car will be charged out of this device.
You know it’s true!
Errrr Luke?
What I said re nuclear energy was this :
I don’t believe it is a policy platform of theirs?
I also went to the Greens website and looked up nuclear energy. . . and sure enough. . .it isn’t.
Of course there are Greens and environmentalists who personally support the idea of nuclear energy, just as there are people from all other political persuasions who personally don’t support it.
The point remains. . .that the environmental movement does NOT support nuclear energy as a policy and if Abbot or Shorten et al started publicly advocating for nuclear energy, the Greens would be vehement in their opposition.
I still therefore think that would be a good place to start. . . don’t you?
I don’t believe Neville’s political persuasion is actually the problem re advocating nuclear energy in Australia.
And Jaycee,
I think we all realised that you were trying to be witty (with a heavy dose of sarcasm). . .it’s a pity that you like focusing on that rather than sticking with discussing the issues that you actually raised yourself.
No problems in the kitchen at all Jaycee and you don’t need to stress out over what I might think about you personally. . .It shouldn’t be relevant considering that as far as I am aware we don’t know each other.
I don’t normally talk to somebody’s sock, but when the owner of the sock talks to the sock (and even has slight disagreements) I guess it’s okay.
I’m no stranger to solar and all-solar dwellings (and water harvesting etc). When you’re off the grid you hook up some solar, right?
Here’s the thing. All that heavy gear and all those chemicals used for solar (and wind) are mined, transported, processed, manufactured, delivered, erected, installed and maintained by means of diesel fuel, petrol, gas and, above all, by that most luscious and abundant of natural Australian substances…COAL.
Mmm. Coal. Chocolate sunshine. Drool.
Ross Mckitrick makes a comment at Climate Audit about the top donkey on the ship of fools and includes an ABC video that is a must watch.
Ross McKitrick
Posted Jan 15, 2014 at 4:28 PM | Permalink | Reply
“After watching this video
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3899674.htm
(h/t bishophill) it’s difficult to see how the expedition could have ended up in anything other than a shambles, and it’s a wonder it didn’t end in tragedy. Turney laughs off serious questions about what went wrong with earlier expeditions, he’s shown making a spur-of-the-moment team selection decision because he thinks an applicant’s crazy outburst in a Youtube video is a riot, he yuks it up about the espresso machine being the most important piece of equipment and he brings his family along as if it’s a holiday cruise. When the reporter comments near the start “It’s not entirely a joke” she sums up the whole strange atmosphere permeating the video. Why is this man laughing like a crackpot while describing the perils and crises that others making this trip have faced?” End of quote from Ross.
What a clueless fool Turney shows himself to be, just about everything is a joke. What a nong to be leading any expedition anywhere. And he’s very flighty with the facts and the truth, three cheers to Steve Mcintyre for exposing the fool.
As I recall,an event such as one mentioned covered an area between Brisbane and Sydney about 8 yrs ago.We had orange snow up on Nth. Tablelands.Screeches from usual suspects- mainly city-dwelling people who work for the ABC and Fairfax(you know the types I speak about JC) who have no experience of the vicissitudes of the natural world and attributed said event to AGW;of course , 18 months before saw a huge flood down the Cooper Diamantina, which dried out and the dust was blown over here.No conservation tillage out there and of course the flock numbers are a fraction of past times
I hope silly Luke can read JC’s comments about new Nukes and his nonsense about solar and wind. I’ve just been proved right again about Luke’s problems with his mates in the Labor and Greens parties and indeed lefties as a group.
They are incapable of any logic or reason and commonsense. They actually think S&W are clean energy and capable of reliable baseload transmission. If that were true Germany and the EU wouldn’t be changing over to brown coal AGAIN. You would just build even more S&W until you had enough reliable baseload energy for your needs. BUT IT IS A LIE and everyone in the EU is waking up at long last.
IF you can ever get any agreement from these fools in under 20 years it will surprise everyone. But it would take a very long time to build OZ’s first new nuke and with all the white anting you would have to endure from these donkeys any new nuke would take decades to come on line.
But I would agree here and now to plan and build our first new nuke providing they scrap all S&W subsidies immediately.
The Bolter puts the OZ alarmism by Flannery, ABC etc into the proper global picture.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/whats_hot_is_the_alarmism_back_home/#commentsmore
Well yes Robert,
Jaycee seems to be motivated by the idea that there would be no fuel costs.
While I commend the theory and the commitment of going off the grid. . .it actually does come at a cost. . . and a rather large proportion of that cost is indeed a fuel cost.
Theoretically, once established, one could easily be led to believe that running costs would be cheaper. . .but in practice. . .that is not happening either.
Solar power/wind power is not competitive without the attached subsides. . .and at present it is incapable of supplying grid power 24/7 to our urbanised society.
May I suggest (with respect of course) that Jaycee takes a peek at some of the work done by this person?:
http://papundits.wordpress.com/2010/03/09/renewable-power-a-ticking-bomb/
This is just one of many posts that point out that calculations are not adding up and that the theory is not living up to expectations.
It is also interesting to note that one of the most reliable renewable energy sources globally is actually hydro power. . .but of course that is not supported by the ‘ political environmental movement’ either. . .even though its influence often gets added in when it suits their arguments against coal, nuclear, CSG & etc.
Neville – how could you name a child that? I heard Jaycee was a fully paid up member of the Nats centre moderates. Do you know. So don’t verbal him as to his political tendencies. But hey as we know the left is the way to go for intelligence – the right is full of rednecks, bogans and general a-holes to want to get ahead on the root it, shoot it, chop it down and dig it up mode. Preferably with a big tax dodge too.
Debs – the point is more intelligent (by definition not Neville) environmentalists are able to process the situation.
Whereas a few of us might be able to survive off the grid, most won’t. I simply don’t believe solar and wind can provide the stable baseload needs of 9-10B humans aspiring to western lifestyles. And nobody is going to vote for austerity. But if a few of you want to be self- sufficient and can do it well good on ya.
It’s obviously transparent by now that Climate Fraudit is just another obsessed denialist outfit despite the agnostic pretense. Unfortunately a bit too high brow for your average sceptic like Nifty Nev to understand. They can only applaud and say “yea that sounds good” (whatever it means).
In the meantime licence sceptics not guns. Especially rabid frothers like Neville. Such a horrid lil’ piggie.
Anyway I heard a rumour that Newman wants to build a nuclear reactor at Mt Isa using Mary Kathleen fuel.
Hi Beth, if I was a cagw zealot then I would go with the model.
If I was a pseudo scientist, then I would go with the model.
If I was sensible human (rare I know) I would go with observations and real world data.
If I was JC, I would go off into fairy land and ask them, they might have learnt something from living in one of his fence posts.
Well we all know that Luke hates facts the truth and commonsense. He even has a propensity to link to fake info to try and support his failures.
And he likes the scientists who use tricks and use false info as well. You know like Mann made warming via the hockey stick fraud and the upside down data used several times to enhance their arguments. Time after time.
But the poor dummy also links to studies that he hasn’t read properly, so his state of mind is a liitle bit iffy at best.
Here’s a good link for dense lefties. The Greens are handing out little champion kits that they claim shows that our co2 tax is already helping to change the temp.
Whooopeee 5% of ZIP can do wonders and in such a short time, NOT but Luke and JC will believe and swallow it no worries. Just a pity about that 16 to 1 problem. What fraudsters and con merchants.
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/im_a_climate_champion/#commentsmore
More fraud and corruption from the USA EPA and environmental groups. Scandal was exposed by FOI and the collusion has shocked many in industry.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/15/new-foia-emails-show-epa-in-cahoots-with-enviro-groups-giving-them-special-access/#more-101401
Luke,
That may have been your point and I agree that there are prominent environmentalists who are now processing the situation. . .but that doesn’t change the fact that at present the Greens do NOT support nuclear energy and that is clearly evident by their current policies on their website.
Go further afield to other policy platforms at other ‘enviro’ websites and you will find that overwhelmingly. . .that is the case.
Ranting at Neville doesn’t change that or fix it.
So. . .again. . .wouldn’t altering that ‘enviro’ mindset re nuclear energy be a good place to start?
Isn’t it amazing that vile libelous little creeps like Nifty Nev screech fraud but nobody is ever charged?
I think we need a Federal investigation into Wattsup. Where does the money come from? Clearly a fifth columnist shadowy source bent on disrupting any enviro legislation. Drink your Chromium Six Nifty. That’s what you’re about matey.
And Toby isn’t it amazing that all studies show humans are generally irrational with weather and climate decisions.
Irrational Luke is at it again. He’s that stupid he thinks that it’s best to attack a person that supports his position on nukes.
That’s his claimed position anyway but I find it hard to believe he’s genuine about his claims at all.
It’s all show because he’s been caught out too often when he’s been challenged about his response to the mitigation fraud. He had to say something so he chose to pretend he strongly supports new nukes.
So Luke tell us when do you expect OZ to build the first nuke stn? I’m saying it won’t be built before 2035 at least. But don’t be coy give us your start up date. If the Coalition loses the next election you can definitely rule out a start up date of 2035.
BTW I watched the first video you linked to about the bloke releasing his doco on new nukes and he seems to be a rational person but fully understands the stupidity of his fellow lefties and the Green parties. He stated he was hoping to get support from sceptics and conservatives for nuclear power stns.
Just give me anything rather than idiotic, useless S&W. But at least with nukes we would have safe reliable energy for 100 years according to the doco producer,
He also backed up Tony from OZ’s work that S&W has a life of about 25 years if you’re lucky. And a lot of maintainance and probably three converters on roof top solar during that time. What a bloody scam.
“I think we need a Federal investigation into Wattsup. Where does the money come from?”
Luke do you actually know how much it costs to run a blog?
If you don’t, find out first or shut up insinuating WUWT or any other blog is in the pay of “big this or that”
(just for you Luke you can run a blog gratis or on less than the price of a cup of coffee a day depending how posh you want to go)
Addendum, I run a few forums (not blogs) based on different interests and it costs me nothing.
Not quite the same as WordPress but does the job
Jennifer…has any other biologist done more research on the relationship / partnership between fungal spores and bacteria?…..particularly on the swiftness they transport one with the other on the winds of the world..and how they just luurve those warm, moist breezes that blow here and there..carrying those little nasties that infect this or that overpopulated area?
What’s happened to all those resuscitated microbes that came back to life after tens of thousands of years in hibernation in that Arctic ice and that Siberian tundra that seems to be melting into the rivers and seas?….nothing?…oh, that’s a relief!…Phew!…not have to worry then about the prescient warning from old T.S. Elliot, in the “Waste Land”…: “That’s how the world will end..not with a bang, but with a whimper!”.
Some say the argument that humanity is in peril from liberated Arctic microbes is darned wooly. I say it’s holeproof, though with a bit of stretch. A sock in the eye for skeptics.
Professor Turney! The guy who pioneered the manic laugh on youtube now says you do it better than him.
Another study from 2000 for Arctic temp change shows little support for AGW. Here are the main points.
What was learned
In the words of the author:
1. “In the Arctic, the highest temperatures since the beginning of instrumental observation occurred clearly in the 1930s.”
2. “Even in the 1950s the temperature was higher than in the last 10 years.”
3. “Since the mid-1970s, the annual temperature shows no clear trend.”
4. “The level of temperature in Greenland in the last 10-20 years is similar to that observed in the 19th century.”
Certainly at the time of this study there was little warming for 70 years. http://co2science.org/articles/V3/N24/C1.php
This Axford et al study of western Greenland 2013 shows that the early holocene temps were much higher than today and the LIA temps in the 19th century were the coldest for the entire holocene. Does that tell you something? Surely we shouldn’t expect some warming since the end of the LIA then????? DUHHHH.
http://nipccreport.org/articles/2013/jul/24jul2013a3.html
JC – T.S. Elliot, in the “Waste Land”… also said:
We are the hollow men … headpieces filled with straw …. bit like your head I imagine
JC – that is from the Hollow Men …. headpices filled with straw
Well might you quote figures from the holocene period…..but I bet you’d be suprised if i was to tell you the temp’s were at least 20% higher in the plastecene period!
Jeezus it’s hot!..this isn’t global warming, it’s global sizzling!
I wonder what they are going to say when the cool change arrives?
we had hot summers in Melbourne for yonks.
Yes it’s hot,
We went over 48 today and I would guess that it was a bit hotter than that out in the paddocks.
It is after all SUMMER in Australia.
Last week it was QLD’s turn and this week it’s SA, NSW and Vic’s turn.
It’s just a normal Summer weather event. . .I can remember hotter and cooler ones and some heatwaves that only lasted a few days and others. . .eg Jan/Feb 1983. . .that lasted for well over a week. . . that one was a bit of a killer as back then we didn’t have air cons in many of our vehicles or our schools and we only had a rather inefficient evaporative cooler on our roof that only cooled the lounge area.
The Aus open has been held up before due to extreme heat. . . nothing out of the ordinary actually happening.
This time last year it was VERY HOT here about a week earlier. . .the cool change turned up here last year on about Jan 13th.. .
The rice is absolutely loving it. . .and it loved it last year too. . .actually we expect this sort of weather at this time of the year. . .it’s one of the reasons that rice does so well out here.
Surprisingly. . .even the little abandoned baby galah seems to be coping OK.
As has been commented before. . .people who drive to work in their air conditioned cars, from their air conditioned homes to their air conditioned offices are the only ones who seem to be alarmed.
Out here, we are scoffing at all the hand waving that’s going on in the media.
Had dinner last night with a western NSW cattle, wheat, cotton, chickpea etc cocky and wife. Not good out on the Darling right now. They’re watching a $120,000 (400 acre) cotton investment dry up. The family have just paid for increased megalitres and can’t get it from the Darling.
This couple are in their 80s and have taken plenty of hits. They’re ready to take more, though they’ve just decided to leave the heavy cockying to the younger ones. Good rain well before May will bring a crop in, if not there’s next year.
They punted on their own cattle breeds by buying in Scotland in 1954 – on their honeymoon. I hope they’ve made buckets of well-deserved money.
Debbie…: “…nothing out of the ordinary actually happening.”…..This’ why I love coming back to this site…I grew up with this sort of language…: “aussie yob”……”Geez mate!..that looks bad, that wound!”….”Nah!…I got nine others!….gissus a beer!”…it’s like “family” coming here is like coming home to “family”….I feel I’m a bit like that lad that comes home for Christmas every year in that sitcom..; “A Moody Christmas”…you know..he comes home and there you all are..loveable loonies…still the same…all chaos and confidence at the one time…snafu!
And there’s Jennifer…another metaphor..: The Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke..she’s “holding back the tide” and there you all are hovvering about and she’s giving you updates on the situation…”Nothing to see here folks!…everything’s A-OK!..keep on smilin’ “….But you see, this entire debate is not about whether there’s AGW or “normal climate change”…it’s about who you want to believe…: those smarty-pants lefty elites, or those who speak your kinda language…..
I can respect Ms. Marohasy…she’s a social conservative..one can see by her speaking, her career, her dress-code, her outward appearance…polite, respectful, living for a society that is reasonable, frugal not wasteful…polite in it’s scientific research, not loud-mouthed nor bombastic…trouble is, her social conservatism (that is ; her lifestyle) has been hijacked by those who would use such sympathies to push their Poiltical right wing-conservatism! And don’t I know my side of politics has done the same to my sympathies!
I’d say it’s the same for many of you here…we can bark all we like about this or that proof about the climate…it will do as it will…Personally, I think it is too late anyway to stop the climate juggernaught…the damage has been done…all that is left is to argue over who is going to cop it sweet!..we know it’ll start with the third world countries.
So there you go…I’m being honest with you..we’re all on the same page, under the same sun, same moon..same climate…I bake – you bake…I freeze – you freeze…Nev with his links, Deb’ with her “down to earth” realism…me with my, whatever…but I can tell you that it’s still 44deg cel’ here under the back verandah and I have to figure what I’ll do with the horses…Don’t tell me things are the same as they always were!
Horses in a sock drawer?
Interesting new research shows that cyclones off WA can sometimes cause heatwaves accross SE OZ. No mention of co2.
https://theconversation.com/whats-cranking-up-the-heat-across-south-eastern-australia-21216
Anyway back to the real science – fascinating as opposed to “this is the killer paper man I assure you”
And before that speaking of social policy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OKXiRiN6wI pretty accurate
And hang on Jaycee – Jen as a social conservative. Well we haven’t discussed that in detail but if Jen is into the libertarian thing – I think you’ll find socially radical for many i.e. whatever happens in one’s bedroom is your business and if you wish to inject, inhale or sniff any interesting substances that’s your right too (just don’t come to the hospital).
http://scienceofdoom.com/2014/01/16/ghosts-of-climates-past-twelve-gcm-v-ice-age-termination/
Oh for dipole’s sake Nev – there’s always a cause – CO2 doesn’t just give you a spontaneous heatwave – you have the understanding of a gnat.
JC I think you should take a bex and a lie down or try to drink more water or lay off the slops for a while.
You could have a look at my last link about SE OZ heatwaves. My local paper asked if this hot weather was normal or perhaps was caused by increased GHGs. All but one respondent said it was normal for this time of year. Good to see people using reason and commonsense.
Luke the fool jumps in like the full dummy AGAIN.
BTW that Axford et al study on Greenland holocene temps shows ZIP correlation with co2. Surprise, surprise.
http://nipccreport.org/articles/2013/may/21may2013a1.html
Clearly an interpretation from a stupid denier blog like Neville likes to frequent. It’s much more complex numb nuts.
http://scienceofdoom.com/2014/01/16/ghosts-of-climates-past-twelve-gcm-v-ice-age-termination/
Jaycee?
You sound quite bitter and despondent. . . and you also appear to actively dislike me.
What is it in particular that is bothering you and how can I change that for you?
What is it with warmists ? Like wide-eyed innocents with very little xperience in life- a natural disposition to believe that we’re all doomed and it’s all our fault;problem being is that they can’t prove it;attribution that is.Nothing compelling in the science just a blind faith science indulging in their own shibboleth or sibboleth- depending on what Israeli tribe you belong to.
Geez!…you try to be nice…!…Luke, don’t worry about being polite to this lot, they have no manners at all!
As for Libertarians?…..Ayn Rand was a phoney…all those years waffling on about only the strong deserving and in her last years fleeing to Canada to make free with their welfare system!….what a bullshit artist…indeed ; “Atlas Shrugged”..!
Just thought I’d link to this summary of the Vinther, Jones, Briffa 2006 study of Greenland temp. An excellent quick summary from co2 science. Note up to 2006 there had been no net warming for 75 years.
A 221-Year Temperature History of the Southwest Coast of Greenland
——————————————————————————–
Reference
Vinther, B.M., Andersen, K.K., Jones, P.D., Briffa, K.R. and Cappelen, J. 2006. Extending Greenland temperature records into the late eighteenth century. Journal of Geophysical Research 111: 10.1029/2005JD006810.
What was done
Combining early observational records from 13 locations along the southern and western coasts of Greenland, the authors extended the overall temperature history of the region – which stretches from approximately 60 to 73°N latitude – all the way back to AD 1784, adding temperatures for 74 complete winters and 52 complete summers to what was previously available to the public.
What was learned
In the words of the authors, “two distinct cold periods, following the 1809 ‘unidentified’ volcanic eruption and the eruption of Tambora in 1815, [made] the 1810s the coldest decade on record.” The warmest period, however, was not the last quarter century, when climate alarmists claim the earth experienced a warming that was unprecedented over the past two millennia. Rather, as Vinther et al. report, “the warmest year in the extended Greenland temperature record [was] 1941, while the 1930s and 1940s [were] the warmest decades.” In fact, their newly-lengthened record reveals there has been no net warming of the region over the last 75 years!
What it means
With approximately half the study region located above the Arctic Circle (where CO2-induced global warming is suggested by climate models to be most evident and earliest expressed), one would expect to see southwestern coastal Greenland’s air temperature responding vigorously to the 75-ppm increase in the atmosphere’s CO2 concentration that has occurred since 1930, even if the models were only half-way correct. However, there has been no net change in air temperature there in response to the 25% increase in the air’s CO2 content experienced over that period. And this is the region the world’s climate alarmists refer to as a climatological canary in a coal mine??? If it is, real-world data suggest that the greenhouse effect of CO2 has been hugely overestimated.
Reviewed 28 June 2006
What it MEANS Neville is that CO2science is another denier site. Opinions are rot and you get led around by your nose ring.
And you my doofus are a trucking idiot. http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=294
“Year 2010 surface air temperature observations around west and south Greenland are unprecedented in the instrumental record. Year 2010 and year 2003 temperatures dwarf high yearly averages occurring in the 1920s and 1930s.”
From the same guy who helped kick your previous Easterbrook bunk for six. Let’s see it again.
http://hot-topic.co.nz/easterbrooks-wrong-again/
Eat a dick denier Neville.
And how about http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=1204 and http://www.meltfactor.org/blog/?p=1222
But but but ….
Luke you’re balmy and who is this guy you keep yapping about. I’m giving you the only real measurements that are your peer reviewed studies on Greenland.
I repeat there has been no net warming in Greenland for 3/4 of a century up to 2005. There are other PR studies that agree that the 1920s to 1940s were warmer than the 1990 to 2005.
Also the rate of warmer was about 50% higher in the 1920s to 1930s period. You’re the one who keeps on yapping about peer review yet when I link to them you turn all petulant and dumb.
Anyway when I get a chance I’ll link to those other PR studies on Greenland. But I’m too busy at the moment but I will get back . And hold your stupid spiteful gutter talk you siily fool.
Here’s that Vinther, Jones et al study.
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/greenland/vintheretal2006.pdf
OK, dumb question time. This latest heatwave is being spruiked everywhere, especially with that ridiculous ‘Adelaide. Hottest City on Earth’ crap.
I drove to Adelaide at Christmas. 45 on the Hay Plains on the way there, lovely and mild while in Adelaide, then 25 on the Hay Plains on the way home. Why? because of the prevailing winds.
When winds blow from the interior, it’s hot. If they blow from the sea, it’s cool.
Here in Canberra, same thing. On a clear cloudless day in January, it can be nearly 40 with a hot dry wind from the west or north west. But a wind from the southern ocean and it’s cool, sometimes even cold in the morning as it was a week or so ago.
In fact, the temperature at any time depends largely or completely on the prevailing winds.
Air temps clearly depend almost entirely on the weather systems, their placement, movement and relative speeds. These things are largely dynamic and difficult to predict in advance. This heatwave of the past few weeks would not have happened had the weather systems been in a different configuration.
So, how exactly does CO2’s radiative influence affect the weather systems? You can’t really argue it’s making air temps warmer because there is no steady static air temp to measure, all you DO have is weather systems affecting temps. And that, to some extent, is random.
The only place we can really measure the CO2 influence would have to be a desert with no weather effects, say the Sahara or Atacama. Where’s the temp data for those?
Too busy says Neville …. but but but …. no excuses Neville after your behavior. And not even on target. Mr Screecher has done a runner.
Graeme M – two ways – AGW can make individual events more extreme and at macro scale, global and regional energy balance, and resulting fluxes and flows can determine where weather systems go and even if they form or their location. Incredibly complicated interlinked system and so GCMs needed to study. The operative word is can.
Here’s a classic case of ‘shoot the messenger’! :
“As for Libertarians?…..Ayn Rand was a phoney…all those years waffling on about only the strong deserving and in her last years fleeing to Canada to make free with their welfare system!….what a bullshit artist…indeed ; “Atlas Shrugged”..!”
What on earth has that got to do with the fact that Luke pointed out to Jaycee that Jen is more likely a Libertarian than a social conservative?
Yes Graeme M,
As per usual. . .the weather has been highly variable from week to week in our part of the world. Despite Jaycee’s comments above it is NOT unusual for max temps to fluctuate 20+ degrees at this time of the year and I seriously doubt there is anything us mere mortals could do about that.
As you point out it is dependant on prevailing weather systems.
I hope your air con was working well on your way to Adelaide for Christmas?
Trying to lay claim to Aussie heat waves and then attribute something significant to human produced CO2 and then go in to overdrive in the media does look just a tad silly.
BoM et al are not actually in charge of the climate/weather. . . it is neither their friend or their foe.
Ah so Trenberth and that once reputable journal Skewance have acknowledged the 1998 event as the start of the so- called hiatus( and me thinking they were associated with hernias) .WHERE has the heat gone to?……….Luke..Jaycee has it gone into the mantle?
Luke I’ll start with the most recent paleo record of Greenland, Axford et al 2013. Here’s a quote from the 6 scientists. Much warmer than today and less ice for 3,000 years. Their quote for summer temps 2c to 3c warmer than today. You can see the summary of the study at the link .
http://nipccreport.org/articles/2013/may/21may2013a1.html
“Based upon chironomid assemblages at North Lake, and supported by records of organic sedimentation in all five study lakes,” in the words of the six scientists, “we infer warmer-than-present temperatures by at least 7.1 ka [thousands of years before present] and Holocene maximum warmth between 6 and 4 ka,” when they indicate that “the local ice sheet margin was at its most retracted Holocene position” and “summer temperatures were 2-3°C warmer than present during that time of minimum ice sheet extent.”
Debbie…as much as I despise links..; http://www.libertarianism.org/people/ayn-rand
You can read can’t you?…you just put your lips together and…
Here’s the other part of the 2013 Axford et al study that I linked to yesterday with details on the LIA . Here’s what I wrote yesterday.
This Axford et al study of western Greenland 2013 shows that the early holocene temps were much higher than today and the LIA temps in the 19th century were the coldest for the entire holocene. Does that tell you something? Surely we shouldn’t expect some warming since the end of the LIA then????? DUHHHH.
http://nipccreport.org/articles/2013/jul/24jul2013a3.html
So its warmed since the coldest period of the holocene, so what? That’s warming in the last 150 years, so what? And the highest rate of warming was 1920s to 1930s, how come? That’s from the other studies like Vinther et al.
Her’s the summary of the R. Przybylak 2000 study I linked to yesterday. Look at the four points below.
Real-World Data Show No Arctic Warming Over Last 70 Years
——————————————————————————–
Reference
Przybylak, R. 2000. Temporal and spatial variation of surface air temperature over the period of instrumental observations in the Arctic. International Journal of Climatology 20: 587-614.
Background
According to nearly all climate models, earth’s polar regions should be the most sensitive and vulnerable areas of the planet to climate change; and, in the words of the author of this treatise, “warming and cooling epochs should be seen most clearly here and should also occur earlier than in other parts of the world.” Hence, as he continues, earth’s polar regions “should play a very important role in the detection of global changes,” and we assume that it was that rational that led him to conduct this comprehensive study of temporal and spatial variations in Arctic surface air temperature over the period of instrumental observations.
What was done
Mean monthly temperatures of 37 Arctic and 7 sub-Arctic stations, as well as temperature anomalies of 30 grid-boxes from the updated data set of Jones were used to derive a number of different spatial and temporal histories of Arctic near-surface air temperature.
What was learned
In the words of the author:
1. “In the Arctic, the highest temperatures since the beginning of instrumental observation occurred clearly in the 1930s.”
2. “Even in the 1950s the temperature was higher than in the last 10 years.”
3. “Since the mid-1970s, the annual temperature shows no clear trend.”
4. “The level of temperature in Greenland in the last 10-20 years is similar to that observed in the 19th century.”
What it means
Again in the words of the author, the meteorological record “shows that the observed variations in air temperature in the real Arctic are in many aspects not consistent with the projected climatic changes computed by climatic models for the enhanced greenhouse effect,” because, of course, “the temperature predictions produced by numerical climate models significantly differ from those actually observed.”
Put more simply, it is abundantly clear that the Arctic – where the world’s best climate models predict that greenhouse warming should be most evident and earliest observed – has not warmed over the last seventy years, in harmony with the contention of our editorial of 1 July 2000: There Has Been No Global Warming for the Past 70 Years. What more is there to say? The data have spoken.
Reviewed 27 September 2000
Here is a link to the abstract of the R. Przybylak study.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1097-0088(200005)20:6%3C587::AID-JOC480%3E3.0.CO;2-H/abstract
Here is IPCC and Judith Curry’s response about sea ice and temp in the Arctic from AR5.
From IPCC AR5
“Arctic temperature anomalies in the 1930s were apparently as large as those in the 1990s and 2000s.There is still considerable discussion of the ultimate causes of the warm temperature anomalies that occurred in the Arctic in the 1920s and 1930s.”
Judith Curry’s response.
“The increase in Antarctic sea ice is not understood and is not simulated correctly by climate models. The Arctic temperature anomalies in the 1930’s were as large as the recent temperature anomalies. Hence confident statements about attribution of the Arctic sea ice decline since 1979 do not seem to be supported by understanding, in spite of the simulations by climate models that reproduce the decline.”
I think Luke and JC use the same crack dealer
Here’s Judith Curry’s post on the weakened case for AGW IPCC AR5 report.
http://judithcurry.com/2014/01/06/ipcc-ar5-weakens-the-case-for-agw/#more-14295
Here’s Judith Curry’s address to the senate in response to Obama’s latest gobbledegook.
http://judithcurry.com/2014/01/16/senate-epw-hearing-on-the-presidents-climate-action-plan/#more-14335
Irrelevant Neville as today in studies isn’t today. You’re a real little shyster aren’t you.
Fancy having to “be told” what it means by a helpful denier site like CO2 Science. Your standards are pathetic. And you’re quoting people like Jones who you distrust? And Briffa. Why are you trusting them here. Hypocrisy is why.
Stop your blathering and go cut and paste something useless.
“Year 2010 surface air temperature observations around west and south Greenland are unprecedented in the instrumental record. Year 2010 and year 2003 temperatures dwarf high yearly averages occurring in the 1920s and 1930s.”
You’re a sore loser Luke , but it looks like everyone and his dog are jumping on the hiatus bandwagon, even Trenberth and Hansen. Those naughty ocean oscillations again and that awful super el nino.
Bob Tisdale has beat them blind, the silly donkeys. But ya gotta laugh.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/16/the-journal-nature-embraces-the-pause-and-ocean-cycles-as-the-cause-trenberth-still-betting-his-heat-will-show-up/#more-101429
Hansen conceded that a pause had set in because of natural changes, but earlier he said that AGW had overwhelmed everything. Geeezzzzz what a confused try on. Nature is catching up to them and giving them a good boot up the backside.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/16/quote-of-the-week-hansen-concedes-the-age-of-flatness/
Neville is going for the diversion now with more quotes form the great denier cess pit of disinformation.
Tisdale – some many errors so great – my limited knowledge of stats and yet stupid great he said – and yet Neville continues to cite. What a little con artist you are.
Errrr Jaycee?
Yes I can read and yes I am aware that Ayn Rand was a famous ‘libertarian’
It doesn’t change the fact that instead of discussing the pros and cons of the concept of ‘libertarianism’ (and Luke’s comment that Jen is more likely a libertarian). . .you chose instead to just shoot the messenger (ie a personal attack of Ayn Rand).
It’s a classic example of ‘shooting the messenger’.
I don’t know much of Tisdale but he must be OK as Luke can only cite one mistake he made and he makes a habit of citing it at every opportunity.
Come to think of it it’s not even a mistake as such, he realised his limited knowledge in stats and not using it any more.
Excel does that to a lot of people, makes stats look simple, it’s not, not if you want it to mean anything useful.
I think that is far more admirable than making mistake after mistake and try to weasel out of, or explain them away like so many notable climate ‘scientist’ and commentators do.
We all know who they are, don’t we Luke?
Hockey anyone, swim in an empty dam that never fills again?
The list is endless.
Utter pretentious nonsense JW.
WTF – “he realised his limited knowledge in stats and not using it any more.” WELL DON’T DO SCIENCE !!
Now like Neville, that bloke had form as a bit ranter. Even indulgent self-publishing. No journal papers conveniently bypassing the most minimal scrutiny. And IT SHOWS !
“UPDATE 3 (January 14, 2012): I displayed my very limited understanding of statistics in this post. This was pointed out to me a great number times by many different people in numerous comments received in the WattsUpWithThat cross post.The errors in that initial portion of the post were so many and so great that they detracted from the bulk of the post, which was about the El Niño-Southern Oscillation. Please disregard this post and the WUWT cross post, and any other cross posts that may exist.”
HOLY COW !
“So many and so great. I displayed my very limited understanding of statistics.”
And yet this is Neville’s dismal standard time after time and he has the temerity to call me a fraud.
Just as I said Luke he realised his limited knowledge and refrained getting involved with stats.
What’s wrong with that?
I fail to see why you are harping on it?
Having limited or no knowledge of some subjects doesn’t seem to stop certain individuals from commenting here.
Sometimes you talk a lot of crap Luke but you dress it up to sound authoritative.
It only fools you Luke not us.
Join the dots, Debbie….Ayn Rand was a Libertarian..Ayn rand was a phoney….A person’s philosophy reflects on their character and vice-cersa….ergo ; libertarianism is phoney…..progress from here yourself, debbie…
I’ll back you up on that assessment JW – not that I like to encourage shin- kickers who don’t address or acknowledge what is issued by their own camps.I gotta laugh at myself- being a magnanimous type though.Shinkickers! Look it up Luke if you haven’t been on the receiving end.WHERE IS THAT MISSING HEAT?
Good stuff JW, don’t let Luke bluff you. Bob Tisdale can hold his head high because when he made a mistake he admitted it like the man he is.
The so called scientists Luke admires make endless mistakes but admit nothing and even front up to try the con again.They know the clueless media won’t call them on it.
If we had a fair dinkum MSM these fools wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes and we would have saved the world 100s billions of dollars wasted on fraudulent mitigation schemes that can never be successful.
SKMaths proves the case , yet Luke yaps on as if we could actually achieve anything. He’s either a liar or a fool or a bit of both. Cue for el silly one to go on one of his abusive rants. It really gets to him because he knows I’ve got the facts and he’s talking nonsense.
No. . .sorry Jaycee . . .that is simply not valid.
libertarianism, capitalism, communism, environmentalism, unionism, nationalism, socialism and probably just about every ‘ism’ you care to name. . . .are peopled by all sorts. . .including phonies.
Whether you wish to admit it or not. . .you chose to ‘shoot the messenger’ rather than discuss the concept of the particular ‘ism’.
The concept of libertarianism and further, if as Luke observed Jen is likely a libertarian, does not rest solely on the character of one person. . .in this particular case Ayn Rand.
I guess the ‘isms’ that may rest on single characters are the ones linked to ‘totalitarianism’. . .which is probably a FAR cry from ‘libertarianism’ wouldn’t you reckon?
I note that Luke is now doing something rather similar. . .shooting another messenger. . .rather than discussing the message.
JW – if you’re a stats nong – WHY would you be writing in this area of science. “Yes I operated on all those patients but don’t know zip about medicine and in fact my errors were so many and so great I apologise”…… HAHAHAHAHAHA
The fact the Nifty Nev doesn’t get means he’s a rank idiot. Having been blown away a couple he’s now desperately trying to lay smoke and divert. What a gimp.
Glen Michel – where? – where they say it is ! Come on matey it’s not play school.
Debs – when have you ever wanted to discuss a message. You know – “too much detail – it’s the hand waving social policy thingy aspects…”
IT was just a simple observation that if Jen identifies with Libertarian views social policy wouldn’t be called conservative. But I haven’t specifically asked her.
You can have a joint and a semi-auto if you like !
http://www.ldp.org.au/index.php/policies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Democratic_Party_(Australia)
Luke unless you’re a liar or a fool you know I’m correct. The mitigation of AGW is the most easily understood con in history.
Until 2040 the OECD will only emit 1 tonne of co2 to every 16 tonnes from the non OECD. I can’t make it simpler for you even if you are a dunce.
Now listen carefully while I explain the rest of the con. Germany WAS the leader in green energy for decades but now admit their grid is stuffed and they are building new Brown Cfired stns AGAIN. Are you just too dumb to comprehend?
Also the EU are likely to soon cancel all subsidies for renewables because they DON’T WORK. If they did WORK they would just keep building heaps more solar and wind. DUH got it yet?
And the rest of the EU are planning more CF stns just like Germany and many will be brown coal as well.
It seems like you’ve embarrassed yourself here for years trying to deny the facts and the truth but you’re either too dumb or silly enough to think you can keep lying and no one will notice.
If your as dumb as they come okay, but don’t expect the rest of us to join in with your stupidity.
@luke
“if you’re a stats nong – WHY would you be writing in this area of science.”
I don’t know Luke, there is a lot to say and write about climate science and what’s parading as such without stats.
Most of the time it is far more interesting and informative, than presenting dry data or a link with a graph on it.
Explaining what it means is more important. Comparing one set of stats to others is also very important if you can show the errors in the way those stats were created.
Take the tree ring controversy for instance, new studies coming out all the time questioning the value of dendrochronology in climate science.
Or take the BoM process of treating past and current temp. records.
You defend them, others question them, we can fill a book with comments without mentioning a single temperature value.
Many ppl are capable of following interpretations who are not necessarily conversant with statistics themselves.
I hardly ever agree with AB but he has the knack of getting to the guts of things in a way lay ppl. understand.
Simplistic, jingoistic? Perhaps, but he also has links that you can follow if more interested.
Therein lays his popularity, agree with him or not.
In short most of us are interested in the social impact, and the shenanigans of individuals involved in CC or (latest name???).
If we want to check up on data there are millions of links and dozens of reputable website we can visit.
I’m in the process of torturing some data myself, see what comes out?
Seen the new German brown coal power stations? They’re YUM. Merkel’s got the right idea: talk green and dig brown. Listening Tony?
Gotta get us a few like Neurath BoA 2&3 for the Latrobe. Time to replace those old Falcons with new Audis, guys. Vorsprung durch Technik and all that.
Mmm. Coal.
Errr Luke?
Are you trying to answer for Jaycee?
I was merely pointing out that when YOU observed Jen was more likely a libertarian than a social conservative, JAYCEE performed a classic ‘shoot the messenger’ manoeuvre.
I also noted that you were, at the time, also ‘shooting a messenger’. . .but in your case I meant Bob Tisdale.. .not Jen and not Ayn Rand.
My apologies if I confused you.
BTW….
Your analogy with medicine is really a bit silly.
The climate/weather isn’t a patient that has had an operation and it won’t die if someone messes up the stats.
Neville still trying to wiggle out of being pooned like a newb. Appalling.
JW statistics is often the basis between real trends and fake trends. Correct inferences and bogus inferences. The problems of auto-correlation, statistical assumptions of normality and false solar cycles alone in the climate field should make you somewhat concerned. Otherwise you can be led up the garden path (by either side!).
And here’s the rub – when something is alleged – it’s very easy to do a blog scan and see if there are serious counter-points being made. If you spend all your time on denier sites you get little perspective.
And have you noticed Bolt, Wattsup, Nova etc – it’s always high drama and shrill and highly abusive comments with gallons of snark – very different tone on RealClimate or Science of Doom, or Isaac Held. Less screeching – more information. With denier sites if the topic is screechy and tin foil hat stuff – I simply leave. It’s not worth it and adds no value.
Debs – no confusion and carry on. IMO – medicine is quite a reasonable analogy – expertise is needed. Roy Spencer’s spanking of Willis is an example of a sceptic swatting a rabid amateur for silly process. Now if your expert suddenly claimed one of their strong points was weak and that weakness was a key skill – hmmmm maybe you’d go elsewhere. Bob has been owned a lot. So who can be bothered checking his stuff anymore – easier to ignore it.
BTW – I’m not writing op-eds, accusational blog posts, self-publishing – I’m simply commenting.
Here’s Robby on the Autobahn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEwCh4_ClMs
Do libertarians believe in speed limits?
unless Neville already linked to this?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/16/the-journal-nature-embraces-the-pause-and-ocean-cycles-as-the-cause-trenberth-still-betting-his-heat-will-show-up/#more-101429
It proves that WUWT indeedy posts all sort of articles for and against!
I usually ignore the comments there, takes up too much time.
They can be pitifully ignorant like everywhere else or well informed.
Pays to scroll down quickly to see who is there.
Most comments in newspapers are just reaffirming the faith on one side or the other.
Luke couldn’t answer and he never will be able to answer. The mitigation of AGW is a full blown con and fraud and yet this nong tries to skirt around the issue AGAIN.
Luke, Jaycee has had an offer to go to another drawer – after all the work and care you’ve put into him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fnvGy4fCdM
Yuk. They seem very Murdocky, don’t they?
If a top drawer offer, Robert, how can he (?) refuse?.
Replace those old falcons? I’m about ter replace me last second hand falcon
with yet anuther, tried’n true… come fly with me. )
Looks like NASA could be playing a sneaky catch up with the observations that lead to the hiatus in temp trends over the last 15 years or so.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/17/nasa-revises-earths-radiation-budget-diminishing-some-of-trenberths-claims-in-the-process/#comments
Nasa has revised earth’s energy budget and now we see that retained energy from GHGs has dropped by 1/3rd since 2009.
Remember this drop of 1/3 has been adjusted down in just a little over 4 years, so what might we see by 2025 or 2040 or 2100?
Trenberth’s missing heat may just have nicked off into space, who knows. I hope Jennifer and Cohers can have a look at this predicament for the warmists.
Robert – sigh – it’s not me – wish it was the character is pretty interesting. Don’t assume gender though.
Robby if I was doing a sock puppet I would have had a major brawl with myself by now.
But surely you’re using a VPN Robert – surely you’re not dumb enough to use your own IP?
Neville still laying smoke I see.
JW – yes but I tend to punch my monitor when reading wattsup. It’s too skanky to actually visit without hardware damage.
Me dad, a wise and inventive man, Luke, and not given ter personal invective,
was wont ter say, ‘ Do – not – giv – yerself – the verdict.’
beth – the – serf.
It’s like one of those ventriloquist movies, where the dummy comes to life!
Jaycee was still in 44C by late afternoon yesterday – with his/her horses! No wonder he/she wants out of the drawer.
Stick with SKS Luke – its very sciencey, no rubbish there
sp – as I have said – you could try showing some leadership and perpetually living in my wake. But given you’re stupid I guess that’s your lot in life. BTW – I hardly ever mention SKS. But you’d be too dumb to notice as someone else writes your material for you – don’t they.
Oh dear – http://www.the-cryosphere-discuss.net/8/273/2014/tcd-8-273-2014.html
Some sense http://rabett.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/andrew-desslers-testimony-to-senate.html
Climategate STAR Phil Jones on his favourite hobby—– adjusting temps.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/17/phil-jones-2012-video-talks-about-adjusting-sst-data-up-3-5c-after-wwii/#more-101485
That Dessler Address to the senate doesn’t make sense. They’ve just admitted they’ve lost a full 1/3 of their energy budget in just 4 years and he then states cnfident that they are correct about human causaed AGW. What a joke.
He also states that you can see a correlation with co2 and temp over many millions of years. That is wrong, there are many studies that show the opposite is true over very long periods of time.
How do they get away with this stuff?
How did this galah ever become President of anything? He just make crap up as he goes along, just unbelievable stupidity. And the EPA doesn’t have a clue about any warming, yet they still want to impose billions $ on the taxpayer. But for what?
http://www.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/craig-bannister/sen-inhofe-obamas-global-warming-claims-president-just-made
Fancy voting for these dem numbskulls.
Pat Michaels takes apart Obama’s scientific ????????? advisor in connection to their polar vortex nonsense. Two new studies show zip new evidence to back up Holdren’s stupidity.
http://www.cato.org/blog/hot-air-about-cold-air?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
Roy Spencer also takes down Holdren, Obama’s pseudoscience expert advisor.
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2014/01/john-holdren-pseudoscience-czar-predicted-waste-heat-would-doom-humanity/#comments
This plodder advises the leader of the most powerful nation on earth and yet he doesn’t understand basic physics? You couldn’t make this stuff up and yet they vote for these dem idiots. I suppose it’s a bit like Luke who thinks the number 1 is bigger than 16. He’s tried for years yet he won’t let go.
Don Easterbrook has looked at the correlation of PDO and temp and given talks about it for a long time and it is still the best way to project future temp change. Roy Spencer covered this years ago as well, but now they’re all climbing on the bandwagon.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/17/cause-of-the-pause-in-global-warming/#more-101530
“Climate Change. A term, which attempts to take the natural weather pattern and attribute it to the activities of humans. Heavily adopted recently for use to promote cave living, the idea that humans are a noxious virus on planet Earth, and the practice of greater separation between the rich and the poor. I know the weather pattern is natural and everything we’re experiencing now has been experienced before, but I still feel all warm, fuzzy knowing that electricity companies are responsible for Climate Change and are being taxed accordingly because of it.”
– Excerpt, UrbanDictionary.com (satirical).
@sp
“promote cave living”
Living in caves is fine as long as you;
1. don’t have enemies.
2. keep a good watch.
3. keep flammables away from cave mouth
4. have back entrance/escape route ready
If all else fails, Vote for a political party with sensible ideas about CC.
Good luck with that!
go to #1
During the hot weather this past week our green energy proved to be useless in Vic and SA. So glad we had reliable coal power to get us through.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/green_power_was_useless_in_this_heatwave_praise_coal_and_the_gold_plating_g/
“He also states that you can see a correlation with co2 and temp over many millions of years. That is wrong, there are many studies that show the opposite is true over very long periods of time.
How do they get away with this stuff?”
says Neville the utter denier ! – appalling
No Luke I’m not a denier of anything about temp and co2. Here’s a link to the findings of the Palmer and Pearson paper of temp and co2 over the last 60 million years.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V3/N23/C1.php
I’ve seen a graph that shows swings in temp and co2 in opposite directions over millions of years BP. I ‘ll try and find it.
And I’m saying temp and co2 have sometimes diverged over many millions of years.
Another paper Pagani et al shows many conflicts between co2 and temp. The formation of the Antarctic ice sheet is interesting.
http://www.co2science.org/articles/V2/N12/C2.php
The Scotese and Berner study shows little correlation between co2 and temp for many millions of years. Sometimes the two move in opposite directions for millions of years.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/CO2_Temp_O2.html
“Sometimes the two move in opposite directions for millions of years.” well perhaps for good reason.
So why don’t you also inform us of solar output, Milankovitch alignments, continental positions and alignments, dust and aerosol levels also. Why would you pick just one variable (unless you’re some sort of denier).
Why don’t you at least do a modicum of research before making stupid pronouncements. CO2science – Nifty’s new treasure trove of selected bias and propaganda. What a trash site. Nifty doesn’t read the papers of course – just slurps the denialist op-ed opinion. Disgraceful really.
What a relief, its not CO2 – a rational explanation at last:
Blaming the prime minister for the bad weather, he added: “It is his fault that large swathes of the nation have been afflicted by storms and floods.
“He has arrogantly acted against the Gospel that once made Britain ‘great’ and the lesson surely to be learned is that no man or men, however powerful, can mess with Almighty God with impunity and get away with it for everything a nation does is weighed on the scaled of divine approval or disapproval.”
Well, more rational than Luke. I hope your not gay?
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/20860008/uk-pollie-blames-gay-marriage-for-floods/
sp – my boyfriend says he doubts it. My girlfriend reckons I might be. And that would be “I hope you’re not gay”.
Must have been a lot of gay marriages in 1703. They actually had barometers in England back then. When the Great Storm hit there was a definite reading of 973 millibars in Essex, and the hurricane was known to be deeper elsewhere in England, maybe down to 950 mbar. It was, er, worse than they thought.
Floods, shipwrecks, forests and towns demolished…there was a national day of fasting in 1704 to apologise to God. (They didn’t call it Earth Hour then.) Daniel Defoe thought the destruction of the fleet was punishment for going limp against Catholic nations.
Imagine if they’d had climate change! And these new polar vortices!
What’s this!!?…minibars and farting!!?…in 1703?…well, there you go..it’s all happened before..nothing new here folks!
Happened before? It hasn’t happened since.
Jaycee, how did Trigger, Fury and Black Beauty handle that 44C late arvo heat? Porky Pig got enough mud? Daffy got water in his pond?
Whoops. Sorry to talk about porkies. I’ll put a sock in it.
Can someone check this out… http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/19/just-hit-the-noaa-motherlode/
Jennifer I think someone like McIntyre should check that data from Goddard and see what he finds.
Luke makes a fool of himself again and I’ve proved my point AGAIN. I see you now agree with me that co2 and temp diverged over very long periods of time in a number of studies. What an uneducated twit you are, hardly worth the time of day.
He thinks he has a big gotcha one day and then agrees with me the next, what a joke. BTW we were not yapping about what might have caused a divergence you donkey, just that the records showed that it sometimes existed and over millions of years . GEEEEZZZZ give me strength.
The early holocene provides examples of higher temps and lower co2 levels than today. Like this study showing higher temps on the GBR while co2 levels were 100ppmv lower than today.
http://co2science.org/articles/V1/N6/C4.php
Judith Curry has challenged Mann to back up his idiotic statement that she is anti-science. What a hoot coming from this creator of pre- determined junk hockey stick graphs.
http://judithcurry.com/2014/01/18/mann-on-advocacy-and-responsibility/#more-14347
I’ll pay you on that one Luke
This 2011 interview of John Christy is a wonderful experience. This is a sane scientist exposing OZ’s stupid co2 tax lie.
He mentions building 1000 new nukes would only change temps by 0.1c in a hundred years and says Garnaut is arithmetically challenged. Boy that’s a safe bet. But a great factual interview for a change. Where has our commonsense gone?
Roger Pielke snr writes to support Judith Curry from the rantings of a gutless spiv.
rpielke | January 18, 2014 at 7:36 pm | Reply Hi Judy – You wrote
“A comment on my testimony vs Dessler’s. Two very different perspectives. Dessler’s testimony represents the consensus view of science, focusing on what we know. My testimony focuses on the uncertainties and what what we don’t know, and why this is an important consideration for policy makers.”
Actually, your testimony and that of Dressler are in conflict in important areas. It would be useful for you to cross reference each major point in a new weblog post and identify issues of agreement and disagreement between the two of you. Than Mike Mann could, if he chooses, contribute with respect to each issue (as would I and others).
On his attack on you, I have been the recipient of such vitriolic attacks by others both up front and behind my back (as others have told me; with a few documented in e-mails).
The approach I have adopted to respond is to continue to provide my perspective (such as my minority statement on the AGU Climate Change Statement – http://pielkeclimatesci.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/rpt-851.pdf) when asked and in the peer reviewed literature.
Recently I was asked to serve on another committee (this time for the AMS), and will again provide my input. That I am asked indicates there are others in our profession who share our perspective, but for one reason or another, do not want to be visible.
Please keep up your excellent and very much needed involvement in the climate science discussions!
Roger Sr.
There is no doubt at all, the Greens want to wreck the OZ economy. No wonder silly Luke supports them and will even tell porkies to support their cause.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/green_against_growth/#commentsmore
This week the big topic globally is the The World Future Energy Summit in Abu Dhabi. Suprising if some of the experts hereabouts were not invited? A key issue for renewable is what happens to fossil fuels. Peak oil for example is a much confused and clouded subject. No doubt this is partly an outcome of not being able to sustain a systems view for more than a couple of seconds before reverting to a simpler reductionist view of a world where economics does not count.
Does anyone have any reliable independent info on this?
Bazza, just beware of any institution or event with a name straight out of a Superman comic
Two lead MSM pieces filed under science today.
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/climate-change-double-likelihood-super-el-ninos-87326
supercells anyone?
http://digitaljournal.com/tech/science/op-ed-new-mini-ice-age-on-the-way-as-sun-goes-to-sleep/article/366556
And now there is talk of a mini ice age because the sun has gone quiet?
We have a lot to be optimistic about in the 21st century. Bjorn Lomborg looks at a World Bank report that indicates the level of extreme poverty has halved in the last 30 years.
In 2010 the number living in extreme poverty was just 17%, but in 1981 it was 42% and in 1820 the number of extremely poor people was 80%.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/bj-rn-lomborg-blames-journalists–bias-in-favor-of-bad-news-for-our-failure-to-appreciate-how-much-the-world-has-improved
Remember in 1820 there was only about 1.1 billion people on the planet but in 2010 there was close to 7 billion people.
This article just proves what a fraud and con the mitigation of CAGW is. German companies and rich people now make a fortune on the backs of the poor and vulnerable.
The solar and wind energy con now ensures that the Germans pay some of the highest electricity prices in the world. About twice what US citizens pay.
And now 600,000 germans can’t pay their electricity bills. So if you support this lunacy here in OZ you will just ensure that we will eventually wreck our grid and pay exorbitantly higher electricity prices into the future.
All at the expense of the sick, poor and elderly who will be made to suffer. Just greedy money hungry bastards.
http://notrickszone.com/2014/01/14/consumers-rebel-germanys-leading-daily-launches-campaign-against-exorbitantly-high-electricity-prices/
“Average global temperatures hit a record high in 1998 — and then the warming stalled. For several years, scientists wrote off the stall as noise in the climate system: the natural variations in the atmosphere, oceans and biosphere that drive warm or cool spells around the globe. But the pause has persisted, sparking a minor crisis of confidence in the field. Although there have been jumps and dips, average atmospheric temperatures have risen little since 1998, in seeming defiance of projections of climate models and the ever-increasing emissions of greenhouse gases”
http://www.nature.com/news/climate-change-the-case-of-the-missing-heat-1.14525
tell us sp how you carefully selected only an introductory quote which sets the context for an analysis which adds a great deal to understanding the so called pause. And tell us how you explain that 9 of 10 warmest years on record are this century. What a fraud!
“so called pause” – what is it then Bazza?
sp, read your link as you might expect any responsible person to do.
So bazza what caused the much warmer earlier holocene then? And what is so strange about the slight 150 year warming coming at the end of the LIA , one of the two coldest periods of the last 10,000 years?
But please tell us how to reduce the temp of the planet so we can tell the non OECD countries? This should be good, but ya gotta laugh.
OK Bazza – if its not a pause, what is it?
What term is acceptable to you to explain the lack of increased temperature over about 17 years, despite massive increases of CO2
More details about the ship of fools. This Turney turkey is a real dingaling and what an embarrassment to OZ and Mawson’s great work.
http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/21/new-details-on-the-ship-of-fools/#respond
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/NOAA_NASA_2013_Global_Temperatures_Joint_Briefing.pdf
Well let’s see?
The Article uses ‘Global warming hiatus’ in it’s title . . .is that better term Bazza?
Is ‘carefully selected’ a euphemism for ‘cherry pick’ ?
Because Bazza, I have read the article and it also says this:
” But the pause has persisted, sparking a minor crisis of confidence in the field. Although there have been jumps and dips, average atmospheric temperatures have risen little since 1998, in seeming defiance of projections of climate models and the ever-increasing emissions of greenhouse gases. Climate sceptics have seized on the temperature trends as evidence that global warming has ground to a halt. Climate scientists, meanwhile, know that heat must still be building up somewhere in the climate system, but they have struggled to explain where it is going, if not into the atmosphere. Some have begun to wonder whether there is something amiss in their models.”
I note that the article does indeed use the word ‘pause’ Bazza. . .and not your terminology ‘the so called pause’ .
And this:
“But even those scientists who remain confident in the underlying models acknowledge that there is increasing pressure to work out just what is happening today. “A few years ago you saw the hiatus, but it could be dismissed because it was well within the noise,” says Gabriel Vecchi, a climate scientist at the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory in Princeton, New Jersey. “Now it’s something to explain.” ”
But it does conclude thus:
” Scientists may get to test their theories soon enough. At present, strong tropical trade winds are pushing ever more warm water westward towards Indonesia, fuelling storms such as November’s Typhoon Haiyan, and nudging up sea levels in the western Pacific; they are now roughly 20 centimetres higher than those in the eastern Pacific. Sooner or later, the trend will inevitably reverse. “You can’t keep piling up warm water in the western Pacific,” Trenberth says. “At some point, the water will get so high that it just sloshes back.” And when that happens, if scientists are on the right track, the missing heat will reappear and temperatures will spike once again.”
So Trenberth also uses the term ‘missing heat’ which does mean something similar to it’s not heating up on average as they expected. . . doesn’t it?
And BTW? Where in this article does it claim that ‘9 of 10 warmest years on record are this century’ ?
The reckless here better hope that this is wrong (as deniers will undoubtedly – cue Cohenite) – a doubling in ENSO. Increasing frequency of extreme El Niño events due to greenhouse warming
http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2100.html
If so that hits Nifty’s argument out of the stadium and proves God is a WASP North American.
All the recurrence intervals for water supply – fire – drought support will all be smashed.
I think I’m going to give a miss to WUWT blog in the future.
Thought AW was open minded, seems like everyone else, yes, as long you agree with him.
Actually Luke,
That is not really what it says.
here:
The increased frequency arises from a projected surface warming over the eastern equatorial Pacific that occurs faster than in the surrounding ocean waters13, 14, facilitating more occurrences of atmospheric convection in the eastern equatorial region.
Note in particular that it is a modelled projection that uses the same info as all the other modelled projections. . .which paradoxically. . .was what was being somewhat questioned in the earlier nature article that sp linked.
Also?
Which part of Neville’s argument is hit and why the God and WASP reference?
And where did it say that intervals will be ‘smashed’ ?????
“Potential future changes in such extreme El Niño occurrences could have profound socio-economic consequences. Here we present climate modelling evidence for a doubling in the occurrences in the future in response to greenhouse warming”
Well Debs – I’ll leave it to you as an exercise to find out the economic damage that extreme ENSO’s cause. A duh.
And I think recurrence interval is intuitive obvious except to lammie bakers. A duh.
And given the yanks are such a God-fearing lot compared to your Dawkins-loving sports-mad boozy hedonistic individualist bronzed ex-bikie Aussie (and sceptic) – divine retribution would have to come into it somewhere (eventually). And so who benefits from ENSO ! – (rainfall wise – think cropping Debs and bit more up the temperature photosynthesis optimum curve – sepos Debs). Surely intuitively obvious Debs. OK half a joke Debs — just half. Do a global Kidman and buy Argentina (not Brazil though).
Nature can always be relied on for intricate detail on stuff which hasn’t happened yet.
IF Nature’s article is correct it may mean the end for us all. IF GWS win the flag…IF Christine Milne is the next PM…IF Justin Bieber is elected pope…
Mind you, the guys wetting the bed over “our quiet sun” are just as bad. The last time the sun went quiet like this my part of Oz roasted for a decade. Next thing, the Arctic went all melty. Early 1900s. Some Ice Age that was.
More on the ship of fools from Steve McIntyre. This time dealing with the legalities of who might have to pay.
http://climateaudit.org/2014/01/21/university-of-new-south-wales-on-sub-charter/#comments
But for sure that non serious giggling gerty Turney should be banned forever from that continent. He’s just too dangerous a fool to be trusted anywhere.
Lucia is following the Turney led ship of fools return to Hobart as well.
http://rankexploits.com/musings/2014/aurora-australis-passengers-disembarking/ Lucia has a lot to say in comments.
Luke,
It is of course well known that extreme weather events are damaging. . .so of course future potential future events could have profound socio – economic consequences. . .ah Duh!. . .even past and current ones do!
Your comments above infer that this study is absolute proof that we’re all doomed and that it’s somehow humanity’s fault. . . and even somehow due to US religion. Even further you claim that it ‘hits’ Neville’s arguments.
There’s been an awful lot of time and money spent on all this potential climate/weather stuff. . .yet extreme events still happen. . . and of course they will happen in the future.
Is it PRIMARILY humanity’s fault and does humanity have the wherewithal to CONTROL the climate/weather and prevent future extreme events?
What is that SOMETHING (or somethings) that we are always told we should DO about it?
Debbie it’s a well known fact that you can’t argue with fundamentalist religious cult followers. I’ve tried and they all resort to ” oh, but it says so in the bible or koran or hadiths or the Bom or CSIRO or Mickey Mann or Hansen, or Obama or Gore etc etc.
Luke is clueless and you have to double check all of his claims, if you can be bothered. We do KNOW there is NOTHING we can do to change the climate at all. That pesky ratio of 16 to 1 wrecks every claim they try to make. They are either liars or fools or bit of both.
Here’s another med wp and LIA study from the Antarctica peninsula. Just backs up some of the SH studies showing the same over the years.
http://planetearth.nerc.ac.uk/news/story.aspx?id=1205&cookieConsent=A
Here’s another graph showing a much warmer Antarctica ( Law Dome ) from about 100 BC to about 1100 AD. This seems to mirror Luke’s study, but the LIA is warmer than today in this Law Dome graph.
http://climateaudit.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/ld2_1kyr.png And surprise , surprise nobody wants the public to see the results of this Law Dome study. Of course the IPCC don’t want to know either.
I owe Deb an apology for using ‘so called pause’. I did so because the Nature article called it a pause. And I slipped in that 9 of 10 hottest years recorded were this century so you can reconcile that with the so called pause. Ironic too because you hectured and lectured us on the evils of measuring trends that are so dependent on the starting point.
I owe Nev an explanation on how I would reduce AGW. I would cut emissions and rely on our visionary pollies like Tony in Davos to remind the world how vulnerable we are and to show that if Europe can agree to cut 40% by 2030 there is hope springing.
Otherwise you are like the horny toad in the saucepan with the water getting hotter and not looking for the right knob.
To be fair there is another Mann and Jones study that uses the Law Dome data but adds a warmer period at the end of the graph. In blue, see end of Steve’s post.
http://climateaudit.org/2012/06/04/law-dome-in-mann-et-al-2008/ This may be dubious or not but it still shows the long,earlier much warmer Antarctica temps at this site.
Climate Change’s Inherent Uncertainties
Virtually all scientists directly involved in climate prediction are aware of the enormous uncertainties associated with their product. How is it that they can place hands over hearts and swear that human emissions of carbon dioxide are wrecking the planet?
http://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2014/01-02/fundamental-uncertainties-climate-change/
Garth Paltridge is an emeritus professor at the University of Tasmania and a fellow of the Australian Academy of Science. He is the author of The Climate Caper: Facts and Fallacies of Global Warming. He was a chief research scientist with the CSIRO Division of Atmospheric Research.
Good stuff and link sp. I bought Garth’s book a couple of years ago and it’s an interesting read.
Just thought I’d throw in this info from Steve McIntyre on the use of upside down Tiljander data by the donkeys at Luke’s Real Climate. This is the work of the famous TEAM,what a joke. Even a high school student would have noticed their errors. But not Luke’s TEAM of donkeys.
More on Screening in Gergis et al 2012
First, let’s give Gergis, Karoly and coauthors some props for conceding that there was a problem with their article and trying to fix it. Think of the things that they didn’t do. They didn’t arrange for a realclimate hit piece, sneering at the critics and saying Nyah, nyah,
what about the hockey stick that Oerlemans derived from glacier retreat since 1600?… How about Osborn and Briffa’s results which were robust even when you removed any three of the records?
Karoly recognized that the invocation of other Hockey Sticks was irrelevant to the specific criticism of his paper and did not bother with the realclimate juvenilia that has done so much to erode the public reputation of climate scientists. Good for him.
Nor did he simply deny the obvious, as Mann, Gavin Schmidt and so many others have done with something as simple as Mann’s use of the contaminated portion of Tiljander sediments according to “objective criteria”. The upside-down Tiljander controversy lingers on, tarnishing the reputation of the community that seems unequal to the challenge of a point that a high school student can understand.
Nor did they assert the errors didn’t “matter” and challenge the critics to produce their own results (while simultaneously withholding data.) Karoly properly recognized that the re-calculation obligations rested with the proponents, not the critics.
I do not believe that they “independently” discovered their error or that they properly acknowledged Climate Audit in their public statements or even in Karoly’s email. But even though Karoly’s email was half-hearted, he was courteous enough to notify me of events. Good for him. I suspect that some people on the Team would have opposed even this.
Sp here’s the Bolt report on the co2 tax with Garth Paltridge, Bob Brown and Ridd.
Nice cardy
Apologies to Bob Carter above calling him Brown, Grrrrr.
More proof that wind and solar energy are a con and fraud. When you really need the power these clueless mickey mouse sources?????? of energy go missing. And they cost a fortune for the little they produce anyway.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/green_power_wilts_in_the_heat/#commentsmore
Of course the temp reduction produced by these ludicrous failures wouldn’t be measureable.
I think Bill Gates is a bit too optimistic, but I think he is on the right track. I would think he’s about 20 years too early but I hope he’s correct.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/22/bill-gates-3-myths-that-block-progress-for-the-poor/#more-101960
The “World Future Energy Summit” is not the only current wankfest with a Superman comic name. Westpac has been named the world’s most sustainable corporation at the “World Economic Forum” in Davos. Know who Westpac edged out? Oh, Coca Cola, Nissan, Samsung, Nestle, Adidas…
Corporations, who at least are not commies and make better products than commies can, have the money to waste on erecting altars to green religion while schmoozing the airhead celebs who make jet trails to these expensive orgies of self-congratulation. With the right auditing, accounting and consultants corporations can always afford to make themselves look like warriors for Gaia – then go about their usual business. They can even sell carbon credits to themselves. What about your local sandwich shop who now can’t afford to re-gas his fridges because of a quadrupled price? Can he appoint an environmental ambassador or sustainability officer? Can one end of the shop sell carbon credits to the other end of the shop?
It’s time to wipe this green goo from our brains. We’re embarrassing ourselves.
Sandwich shops – who cares – yee gads. From our forest kayaker. Check out a row of fridges in a new supermarket ! Go and water the bamboo Robert.
Coca Cola sell liquid sugar enhanced by CO2 – do they have to pay extra tax on that?
Why would this be filed under ‘science’ in the MSM?
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/were-seeking-24m-costs-for-antarctic-rescue-greg-hunt-20140123-31b60.html
BTW Luke – small business is economically important and not to be dismissed. I think you must be a public servant as you do not seem toi have a grasp of the fundamentals of free enterprise, most of your suggestions are based on spending other peoples money.
Robert@: “The “World Future Energy Summit” is not the only current wankfest with a Superman comic name. Westpac has been named the world’s most sustainable corporation at the “World Economic Forum” in Davos. Know who Westpac edged out? Oh, Coca Cola, …”
Coca Cola a sustainable producer of CO2???
“Worldwide, Coca-Cola’s operations emitted 1.9 million metric tons of carbon dioxide (CO2), according to what it told the Carbon Disclosure Project last year.
Coke won’t reveal how much CO2 that it uses to inject into its beverages, but it is estimated to be even larger. Coca-Cola spokeswoman Mary Kathryn Covert told CNSNews.com that the world’s largest beverage company did sell 22.7 billion gallons of soft drinks worldwide in 2007, the latest year for which statistics are available.”
– See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/coca-cola-bubbles-not-very-large-part-our-overall-carbon-footprint#sthash.1wzUNHZf.dpuf
I’ll tell the guys who sell sandwiches to the Akubra workers in our industrial estate that they should send their customers into town for their sandwiches.
The great duopoly never had better friends than the snobby green urban left who pretend to be against them. (Of course, if you should happen to be selling snacks in a small biz and you should happen to run out of Bill Shorten’s favourite sausage rolls you’ll find out in a real hurry about our professional defenders of “the little guy”.)
By the way, I would just LOVE to see Luke and bazza working in a busy retail outlet where they had to serve people like Luke and bazza. Could I sell tickets to the event?
There’s a nice chapter in Taleb’s ‘Antifragility’ concernin’ “skin in the game,” of
bein’ subject ter the consequences of yer own expert prophecies and actions.
Taleb refers ter an ancient code, Hammurabi’s Code in which bridge builders
were obliged to spend time under the bridges they built and failed bankers,
causing pain ter others, were put to death outside their banks.
A problem with modernity is the complexity of bureaucracies and large corporations
where decision makers causing harm, conceal the causal chain and escape suffering
the downside of their irresponsible decisions paid for by others. Often they may even
benefit like Robert Rubin re Citibank. allowed ter keep his bonuses or Joseph Steiglitz’ assessing a low risk Fanny Mae before it collapsed and career intact, still in the game,
writing a book claiming he predicted its collapse. If he’d been oblged ter have his own
money invested in FM, perhaps he’d have been more responsible. (Say, tenured
academics in consensus research programs are similarly free from a real world need
ter ferret out errors.)
Big companies with their army of lobbyists can sell coloured water, run into trouble
and be bailed out by friendly guvuhmints as too big ter fail. Small business, subject
ter skin in the game have an interest in bein’ productive and should they fail, can’t
load their mistakes on ter the public purse.
Ha! So would I Robert
🙂
The behaviour that sp & Robert & Beth highlight is also known as ‘risk averse’.
Bureaucracies & quasi bureaucracies want all the control as well as trying to deal with the conglomerates rather than individual customers BUT(!) load the responsibility and risk onto the individual customers who are generally the small business owners.
Paradoxically. . . small business is still the largest employer & contributor in Australia.
Plus one, Debbie. Load it on ter the risk takers, innovaters, wealth produces.
Grr … ‘producers.’ Serfs can’t spell.
Small business IS business.
@Beth
I’m inviting scorn and derision again, but I wish you’d desist with the quaint mannerism.
Dropping it in every now and then could be amusing but a continued use is more than annoying, it distracts from the message you try to convey.
Sorry
An earlier generation of politicians understood that water and power drive wealth-creation and modern life. Their successors seem more interested in preserving a bureaucracy whose priority is protecting its own interests, rather than those of the people it is supposed to serve
https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2014/01/sold-river/
Cold and snow in N. America is well and truly precedented (think 1970s). And if it’s followed by summer heatwave that’s precedented too.
What is a “record” and “unprecedented” is the cost of heating.
http://news.msn.com/us/cold-snap-draining-fuel-supplies-prices-spiking?ocid=msnnws
But go on and tax the tripe out of our superlative coal. Don’t modernise our coal plants – there’ll be less coal wasted and thus less tax. The EU will know what to do with our money in their ingenious anti-market. They can toss our dosh down the same big black Euro-holes where they chucked each other’s money.
Bazza @ 10:12 yesterday 23rd.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/business/international/european-union-lowers-ambitions-on-renewable-energy.html?_r=0
So even though they have an agreement. . .the pathway forward for that 40% looks rather convoluted don’t you think?
I also find your analogy inappropriate.
If the average global temp increases by only 1 or 2 degrees. . .the horny toad will not notice. . .and neither will we.
“David Whitehouse, writing at the GWPF, notes the release of 2013 surface temperature data from NOAA and NASA. Depending on your predelictions this can be headlined as “Fourth hottest ever!!!” or, as I have done “Still a standstill”.
When asked for an explanation for the ‘pause’ by reporters Dr Gavin Schmidt of NASA and Dr Thomas Karl of NOAA spoke of contributions from volcanoes, pollution, a quiet Sun and natural variability. In other words, they don’t know…
Given that the IPCC estimates that the average decadal increase in global surface temperature is 0.2 deg C, the world is now 0.3 deg C cooler than it should have been.”
“They gleefully talk about the first, second, etc warmest year, but there is only 0.09 degrees C of anomaly between all 10!!!!
How do these people sleep at might and why are they called scientists?”
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/1/22/still-a-standstill.html
sp drones on with the usual denialist paff. Faux sceptic bs.
Just to remind you how stupid you can be Luke:
“Sandwich shops – who cares – yee gads. From our forest kayaker. Check out a row of fridges in a new supermarket ! Go and water the bamboo Robert.”
More from our clueless fools at the climate council, their ABC and Faifax etc, but the reality of weather around the worlds proves what truth benders they are AGAIN.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/other_parts_of_the_world_laugh_at_our_warmists_screaming_warming/
BTW does anyone in their right mind believe that we really can measure the entire planet’s temp to an accuracy of 0.09C over 365 days?
Yes sp Luke can be really, really stupid. He follows scientists??????? who keep using data upside down, he thinks like his hero Bandt that Tony Abbott caused the Blue mtns bushfires, he also promotes a mitigation strategy that can’t even pass a simple kindy maths test, he then yaps that anyone who CORRECTLY disagrees with his delusional garbage must be denier or climate criminal etc.
He also links to a recent study that proves my case about past climate rather than his, but ya just gotta laugh at him. Like I’ve said he’s either a liar or a fool or a bit of both.
Luke’s hero upside down Mann takes the cowards way out when responding to Patrick Moore ( one of the founders of Greenpeace, but has since come to his senses)
Mann overboard indeed.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/24/friday-funny-mann-overboard/#more-102082
More jackboot totalitarianism from the lunatic left and all funded by the poor long suffering taxpayer.
Let’s hope Brandis puts a stop to funding these looney parasites. BTW Quadrant is a libertarian magazine, about as remote from nazism and communism as you can get. In fact the polar opposite of these extremist whackos.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/our_grants_arent_meant_to_sponsor_mccarthyism/#commentsmore
And because of their earlier Uni days Les Murray and Bob Ellis are still personal friends.
The EU renewable energy mitigation con and fraud is slowly grinding to a halt. Geeezzzz I’m really surprised, NOT. But why didn’t they just spend about 5 minutes doing the calcs on the back of an envelope in 2005 instead of wasting an estimated 600 billion euros ( 0.6 trillion) on this idiocy?
http://joannenova.com.au/2014/01/dont-miss-the-eu-transformation-on-renewable-energy/#more-33007
Now the poor and vulnerable have to steal wood to burn to try to keep themselves warm. This is just a massive wealth transfer from the poorest people to the wealthiest greediest scum. What an obscenity.
Here is a direct link to Benny Pieser’s excellent article. A timely warning to OZ to wake up to the easily understood fraud and con of CAGW mitigation.
http://www.thegwpf.org/benny-peiser-europe-pulls-plug-green-future/
I see Neville is still a verballing little turd. Pity his sources are some of the most fetid puerile junk ever to be committed to text. Have you ever met Watts Nifty – he’s the full on crusader and real worry.
Neville’s diet – Wattsjunk, SuperNova, Bolter and GWDF – the great disinformation sites full of frothing rabid haters like Neville. People you would definitely not want to talk to at parties – the sort of people that you’d jump over a railing to avoid. Pretty well all disaffected white males codgers over 50 or even worse retired fringe professionals. No women, no young people, definitely no ethic minorities unless you class being a rabid old codger sceptic club as a minority instead of a pathological mental disease.
Rubbish Luke!
Jonova (whom I assume you are referring to when you use SuperNova?). . .is female JUST FOR A START!. . So is Jennifer Marohasy, Judith Curry and plenty of others.
Same applies to age groups, ethnicity, professionals etc. . .
From what I can gather from comments here. . . YOU are actually more likely to fit into the category of “disaffected white male codgers over 50”. . .than several of the commenters here. . .including the blog owner!!!
Luke – can you comment on the role and importance of small business to the national economy, and if you think the CARBON tax has had negative impacts on the ongoing viability of small business.
sp – Yes and I don’t know really.
Well Debs – add in yourself and we get to a whole 4 ! I did say pretty well all. fizzle…. 95% disaffected old white male codgers
Meaningless drivel Luke.
Looks like something Cook & Lewandowsky would say. . .and something you would find on hotwhopper or SkS.
Where is the research/study that validates your 95% claim?
What is your definition of disaffected?
Luke, if you don’t know, why did you dismiss Roberts point and tell him to check out rows of freezers in supermarkets? O
What a clueless fool Luke is, he’s been wrong about everything he’s been yapping about for years.
I’ve given him the facts but he still doesn’t get it.
The EU is retreating fast on the mess they’ve created and yet this numbskull would repeat their mess again here in OZ.
How do you understand this level of stupidity and disregard for the facts? Little wonder he is a Greens supporter, just about his level of ignorance and on display for everyone to see.
I see Mônsewer Luke’s recent sprays of bile just underline the paucity of valid warmist arguments
to defend the about faces that are occurring all around the world.
…that have been the consequence of using renewable energy as the numskull solution to a small rise in temperature occasioned by an even smaller rise in Co2…..that has been foisted on the poorer people including inGermany
People are waking up to the cost of the great greenie fraud, underpinned as it is by half baked academics, and idiot UN bureaucrat’s cum IPCC’s. They don’t suffer any pain at all… being attached like limpets to the variety of public teats. They and the NGOs like WWF etc should be hung out to dry
The Americans don’t care… they are fast becoming a net energy exporter and the Saudis/ME suppliers are starting to panic …which again has an element of poetic justice
What a load of rabid whinging Minsey. You’ve never had to so good and you’re just sooking. Typical old farts whining and carrying on. The poor people of Germany – pullease….. as you barrel down the autobahn at 300. pffft http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmCAiEmMUMI
Yes Luke people may complain about what people like you have done to them.
800,000 people in Germany last year had their power disconnected because they cant pay the power bills, loaded as they are by Greeny induced distortions and subsidies.
People in many countries have had their standard of living diminished because of the incompetence of alarmist academic nit wits and greeny leftoids that you try to defend.
Typically …. it is also another assumption by you that I am an old fart.
If you think in cliches, models, extrapolations and stereotypes, I suppose the Germans do spend their day racing down autobahns.
In reality (aka stuff that actually happens) 600,000 households per year are disconnected due to unpaid power bills.
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article106236425/Strom-ist-fuer-viele-Deutsche-unbezahlbar-geworden.html
Our Green Betters like to talk about “sustainability”. What’s unsustainable in reality are feed-in tariffs and toy energy technologies.
The article I linked to above is from 2012, so Minister’s figure of 800,000 could well be the up to date figure. Germany has the world’s most expensive electricity in terms of purchasing power and second most expensive in flat money terms.
While the tragic case of wind dependent (= French nuke dependent) Spain is a standout for soaring energy costs, there is one resource rich country which stands way, way in advance of comparable nations like Canada, both for flat cost and relative cost of electricity.
The name of the poor sucker nation is Australia.
Thank you Robert ..I agree that we are the standout sucker nation.
What these ingrates have done is destroy the one competitive advantage that we did have, namely cheap power.
For this we have to thank that cabal of leftist numbskulls that abound on this country like Flannery, Karoly, Garnaut, Steffen et al….the list is almost endless…but the real damage was done with Gillard and her pact of the devil with Greens that translated it all into policy and taxes.
Robert OZ should be building new coal fired stns immediately and end all subsidies for clueless solar and wind energy. We would be barking mad to copy the EU mess.
Then we should be looking at safe new nukes for future energy needs into the future. But until the stupid Labor and Greens parties wake up that will always be a long shot.
Because we will always have severe droughts, floods, bushfires etc we need to adapt to whatever nature may throw at us and we should also increase our spending on R&D as we throw out funding on idiocy like S&Wind energy.
Forget about dummies like Luke because he’ll never ever wake up. Don’t forget he still thinks the OECD input of one can overcome the non OECD input of sixteen.
And remember the barking mad Greens and Labor really believe our 5% reduction of co2 by 2020 means we are taking action on AGW. They’ve stated this on numerous occasions.
But, but, but – the world is looking to Australia for leadership on CO2 reduction, especially the Chines and Indians, who check what we are doing before adopting or implementing energy policy ……………. only joking, but that’s what moronic greens, and Luke, believe.
Here is table 20 from the EIA showing co2 emissions from 1990 to 2040. The projections from 2010 to 2040 for OECD countries is just 0.8 billion tonnes p.a, but the non OECD is 13.5 billion tonnes for the same period. And that’s 16.8 times more than the OECD over that 30 year period.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/table20.cfm
And what are you doing about it all Neville – nothing except sooking on a backwater. Zilch !
Losing the ‘Carbon Pollution’ Wars
http://informthepundits.wordpress.com/2014/01/23/losing-the-carbon-pollution-wars/
The country is ruined – sook sook
http://www.austrade.gov.au/Invest/Investor-Updates/2013/0606-Data-Alert-Australia-tops-OECD-Better-Life-Index
Whats your plan Luke? – come on, lay it out for all to see
Well Luke I’m not falling for superstitious nonsense and barking mad dumbo maths like you. In fact you and I and everyone here can do little but try and present the facts as clearly and honestly as we can.
Of course at election time we can vote for parties that don’t tell lies to the electorate. I also fill out the senate ballot below the line so my vote goes to sensible parties before the idiotic Greens and Labor etc.
BTW here’s the MET office finding for 2013, about 8th warmest in their record. And the temp standstill continues for the last 17 years.
http://www.thegwpf.org/uk-met-office-global-temperature-standstill-continues/
I’m most grateful to have witnessed the price of iron ore soar while Australia’s export share soared AFTER the GFC (40% in 2010!).
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=iron-ore&months=120
And all that coal we sold…well, everyone knows my soft spot for the black. (I’ll never go back.)
http://www.indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=coal-australian&months=120
And that’s just the price. Then there’s the volume!
Man, I know how to survive a GFC and score on the “better life index”. Just be Oz or Norway, with plenty of what the hot punters want (hint: carbon, hydrocarbons).
Me, I love mines and mining machinery. I hope Gina doubles her wealth, and Twiggy triples his.
But is that all we get to do? Er, I hate to be the one to use that putrid word “sustainable”, but…
sp – we don’t need a plan – you’ve never had it so good. Stop sooking. BTW Aussies are sick of out of time old codgers – export yourselves to somewhere nicer.
Neville- froth froth froth – cut and paste cut and paste froth froth froth fraud fraud barking mad fraud – impact = 0.0000000000000000 An unpublished unrecognised tea party type whinger on a blog leper colony at the end of the universe. zzzzz
Werner Brozek looks at 2013 and finds zip help for the fantasists and CAGW. Overall 2013 is about 8th warmest, whatever that really means.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/01/25/another-year-another-nail-in-the-cagw-coffin-now-includes-december-data/#more-102180
I see silly Luke couldn’t care less if OZ followed the mad EU and wasted billions $ every year for decades into the future on S&W. All for a grand return of SFA on those billions and SFA change to the climate and temp by 2100. What a dense dummy he is, but hey we all know that, so what’s new?
Yes Luke,
Australia is a lucky country.
That is no reason to start ruining the means to our good fortune.
Just because the numbers said that Australians could ‘afford’ a carbon tax and that the ‘sky would not fall in’ does NOT mean it was a good idea OR that it would achieve worthwhile results.
Luke’s hero Gore has stepped up his lies and extremist nonsense about CAGW. Little wonder his gullible followers like Luke are so easily led astray. But ya gotta laugh at them.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/al_gores_untruths_grow_more_extreme/#commentsmore
Well Neville – rabid activists are always bound to disappoint you. Here’s YOUR BOY showing what a disgraceful little activist he is when he thinks nobody is listening ….
“You couldn’t make this shit up; anyone who believes in AGW is a complete and utter fuckwit. The fact that many intelligent people support it tells me that in some people their emotions and ego are simply stronger than their intelligence and whatever intelligence they have is perverted into justifying their beliefs instead of seeking objective truths.” opines Cohenite
Now such harsh language – and given Nova, Evans, Spencer and Lindzen all believe in AGW – and Neville too – well golly – fancy referring to your friends as “fuckwits”. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
http://catallaxyfiles.com/2014/01/25/100-times-pull-the-other-one-al/comment-page-1/#comment-1166892
You know why you have dudes like this doing your dirty work – don’t you ! Now Nifty – you can support him if you like?
“some people their emotions and ego are simply stronger than their intelligence and whatever intelligence they have is perverted into justifying their beliefs instead of seeking objective truths”
which is why you’d vanity publish and do op-eds instead of any papers – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
It’s a real insight into the thinking. It really really is.
WOW Cohers doesn’t believe in AGW and might get a bit annoyed with people who do, gezzzz what a revelation. I had no idea, fair dinkum? SARCY sarc sarc.
I think everyone on this blog sorta worked that out for themselves by now. Cohers has been through the ropes and punched his way out of many tight spots over the years so I’m not that easily shocked by your silly nonsense.
But back you go to big HIPPO Al and get your next lesson on Bsing the poor ignorant hysterics. I understand you may be nominated for Al’s BS Artist of the year award. Good luck.
Neville, yet again the knucklehead Luke hasn’t read the whole piece either.It is quote from Gore namely
“We’re getting closer to a political tipping point,” Gore said. “These extreme weather events, which are now 100 times more common than 50 years ago, are really capturing people’s attention.
To which Cohers had pointed out that some say the decreasing levels of extreme events is an indication of AGW.
I think Fluke is suffering from a lack of sleep as he was posting at 1.30 am this morning ”such is his obsession”
I know you are a bit slow Luke, and getting a bit desperate, so will repeat:
– If you don’t know (about the impact of the CARBON tax on small business), why did you dismiss Roberts point and tell him to check out rows of freezers in supermarkets? You dont know what you are talking about, but think its OK to dismiss others who do!
– Enough of the “we dont need a plan”, whats YOUR plan to save us from CO2 and global warming / climate change / a “wavy polar vortex”?
BTW Luke – do you agree with Al Gore or not?
Lets face it guys, if you follow the modus operandi of the resident agent provocateur …it to disrupt and agitate, and which he is doing from a very poor knowledge base both formal an informal. His training by the climatariat has been of a very low standard.
He clearly has never earned a dollar in his own right because he has little to offer that is well grounded in commercial realities, and he must have been, or is still, on the public teat for most of his life…. just like the ones he so desperately tries to defend.
His reading, comprehension and attention to detail is not that good, and when exposed he covers up with blustering b/s and abuse and diversions just like bullies do.
He is clearly obsessed, as he has been for yonks, and in all likelihood has been, or still is a Public Servant, in some bolt hole to do with climate A person not so obsessed would find something better to do with their lives, than defend the same piddle patch with the same dribbling nonsense and occasional quip.
If I was his employer I would have sacked him ages ago for incompetence, because he should have be able to do it better.
Nev, your EIA summary (25 Jan 8:57pm) did not make sense. You are trying to compare increases not actuals. ” The projections from 2010 to 2040 for OECD countries is just 0.8 billion tonnes p.a, but the non OECD is 13.5 billion tonnes for the same period. And that’s 16.8 times more than the OECD over that 30 year period.” If the OECD increase was zero which it could well be, then the Neville ratio would be infinity – scary isn’t it for the innumerates.
When I look at that table you linked to, I see world emissions increasing to 2040 at 1.9% under current policies (for what they are worth!). There are lots of highly sensitive assumptions including in particular policy changes and R&D investment particularly in energy efficiency. OECD countries have obviously done very well already in that regard so there is scope in non-OECD.
When Luke is losing, Bazza reappears!!!
So sounds like you’re supporting Cohers then. Well good to see that you’re in the irrational deniers class. And woo didn’t they bite. So you either support Cohers and go into the looney anti-science denier class or support your more intelligent sceptics – which is it – dragon slayers and nuttery I assume?
sp – I’ve already told you the plan threads back – repeating isn’t necessary. Impact on small business – well depends on what sort and clearly bugger all.
and it’s pretty obvious even for a tool like you that your codgeresque sanger shop in Robert’s banjo plucking Deliverance backwoods typically may have a fridge or two (probably Kelvinator circa 1957) compared to perhaps 60 or more in your modern super market (and then cold rooms out the back, parcel pickup and at distribution centres) with you know many instances of such stores. That fact that a “sustainability” officer or energy officer might be able to make some considerable savings on the bottom line vis a vis someone who thinks forest management policy might be assisted by kayaks. Although maybe the fridge was actually a meat safe hung under the verandah. And you’re in infrastructure are you sp – what bullshit. Small business – what a pain in the neck. Inefficient and whingey as hell like you. Thank heavens for large corporations and government. The bigger the better.
As for retirement – well as you know being retired early by the new conservatives gives you lost of time to reflect.
Hmmmm… well after that in coherent diatribe I rest my case.
Go and see a psycho mate you need help.
Minister & sp,
considering this comment from Luke:
“Small business – what a pain in the neck. Inefficient and whingey as hell like you. Thank heavens for large corporations and government. The bigger the better.”. . .
It looks like you may be right.
🙂
Luke?
In what ways do you think small business is inefficient as opposed to large corporations and government?
Finances? Employment? Taxation? Resource Use? Access to and use of funding and grants? or what?
From my own experience, working in and dealing with all three (ie Big corporations, Govt depts. and small business) I have found the exact opposite to be the case.
I am often gobsmacked at how truly wasteful and inefficient big Govt depts. and big corporations can be.
I am also often gobsmacked by their inability to accept responsibility for their inefficient practices.
Also. . .paradoxically. . .the last time I checked, small business (as a sector) was still the largest employer and earner in Australia. . .albeit that some of them do contract their services to big corporations and Government.
Luke, you can always become a small business like me – great perks compared to PAYE. Split income, inheritance provisions, bankruptcy breaks, trust advantages, super . And most small businesses use most of their power in daylight hours so the rest of the community can subsidise their solar. My electricity bill is up less than a dollar a day – I spill that much. The worst thing about the pollies love of small business is they only show the love up to the election. The big money that determines policy comes from big business. Two things are always true: the cost of living is too high and small businesses are doing it tough.
Well I’m sure you all buy your groceries at the efficient corner store. And don’t buy your hardware at Bunnings. Etc etc etc
Luke – “As for retirement – well as you know being retired early by the new conservatives gives you lost of time to reflect.” Whats wrong with you? Never mentioned it – probably something you and Bazza talking about – schizoid or what? Time to lay of the gofast and get some sleep boy.
I take it you agree with Al Gore.
Nor do you have a plan.
Bazza the increase from the OECD since 1990 has been ZIP and the non OECD has soared. As I’ve said before India and China have at least another billion people to lift out of extreme poverty, so their emissions will continue to soar for another 30 years and beyond.
The USA is at about 1994 levels because of the big increase in gas and the EU will probably change to more gas useage after they initially change back to coal.
But nearly all of the new emissions will come from non OECD countries over the next 30 years. Obviously it doesn’t matter what we do because we will have SFA impact on new co2 emissions for decades to come.
sp – there are others here addressing me besides yourself.
I take it you off the charge of bashing your wife and that you agree with Cohenite.
Small Business, or SMEs of <100 employees are by far the largest employers in the country.
Most refugees from the PS and academia don't understand that simple truth either.
A lot of innovation originates out of small entities rather than larger although quite obviously it isn't exclusive one way or tother…it depends. Saying one is better than other is dumb
But then I am not at all surprised…. with the non entrepreneurial clunkers that surround us these days.
All hat and no cattle.
You mean the lack of innovation. ROFL.
The word “retirement” appears twice on this thread – once from you and once in my response to you.
The word “retirement” appears three on this thread – twice from you and once in my response to you.
You are delusional – lay of the gofast son, its rotting your brain.
Sorry:
The word “retired” appears three on this thread – twice from you and once in my response to you.
Note that our Supercell has once again invented a proposition nobody has made and has then proceeded to argue against it. I shop at big supermarkets and I shop at local small retailers and I shop online at big and small retailers. The first great department store grew out of a barrow by the Seine. Why would I discourage mass retail or small retail? How do you have great enterprises without small, hungry enterprises seeking to grow? (I know, I know…you can do what Mother Russia did, and what Luke would like to do, but that doesn’t really work, does it? It always looks like it will work, but never does. You know…reality, human nature etc.)
But it is impossible for our Green Betters to reconcile their craving for centralisation with their preaching about diversity, organic growth etc. Ultimately they stand for monopoly, a situation where they do not feel threatened by individual accomplishment. Meanwhile, duopoly will do. (And I speak not as a right-winger or libertarian but as someone quite friendly to government regulation, public service, public enterprises, welfare, subsidies, special assistance etc etc)
The problem is that, instead of freedom, our snobby Green Betters promote insolence, mistaking it for freedom.
Jeez Robert – be careful – you’ll get shot up by rent-seeking missiles and friendly fire.
I have no trouble recognising the complexity of modern society and the need for regulation, safety nets and countless other restrictions and adjustments. Many on the right pretend not to see the need even while they take the benefits. But I especially believe in restricting envy and insolence, founding principles of the Snob Left. When McDonald’s started in Russia they had a hard time explaining service to the locals. One employee asked: “Why should we be nice? We’re the ones with the hamburgers!”
Envy and insolence, Supe. There’s your prob, right there.
Beautiful Robert:
When McDonald’s started in Russia they had a hard time explaining service to the locals. One employee asked: “Why should we be nice? We’re the ones with the hamburgers!”
Luke – send this to BOM, NOW!!!
Let’s face it you people are arguing with either the dumbest most idiotic fool one could hope to find or just a clueless loser who couldn’t care less about anything.
He’s been proven wrong on just about everything he has promoted, but he’s the only tool that doesn’t understand this fact. He’s not worth the time of day.
BTW here’s a good article by Terry McCrann on the Green’s clueless wind energy during the recent heatwave across southern OZ.
Thank GAWWWRRDDDD for coal fired generators in our time of need.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/when-you-need-more-power-to-keep-the-lights-on-the-answer-is-most-certainly-not-blowing-in-the-wind/story-fni0d8gi-1226809058934
Here’s more on the Green’s lies and distortions about China’s solar and wind fiasco. In 2013 new coal fired stns outstripped S&W by many times, solar e.g by 27 times.
Yet these liars keep repeating the lies just like the lying numbskulls on this blog.
http://www.thegwpf.org/green-china-coal-hard-truth/
More on the green renewable energy insanity that is wrecking energy grids and countries accross the EU.
http://www.thegwpf.org/dominic-lawson-games-renewable-energy/
Don’t forget this is what Luke, bazza, JC and their Labor and Green masters are planning and want to inflict on the OZ economy. They will only be happy when they transfer more of our jobs and industry to China and India.
Need the like button again Robert!
Also a good idea to send comment to BoM sp.
The difference is however that BoM does NOT produce the weather/climate nor does it own the means to produce it.
BoM is SUPPOSED to be a public service. . .yet that attitude that Robert highlights has become part of the culture lately.
It leads them to say really STUPID things like. . .”This would be a better job if we didn’t have to deal with clients/customers/ business owners etc ”
Bazza?
Small business operator?
What do you produce or what service does your business offer?
Opines Debs the small business whiner and whinger. Let’s set the clock back to where you used to get no data from BoM – ah yes – the good old days. Rather chew your arm off than deal with Debs as a client. “What do yo want the data for Debs” “Oh I don’t really” – “I’m just something to do with my lynch mob friends”
And Debs – remember Bazza used to run knock shop in Darwin? Maybe he still does.
Neville does his morning press clipping rounds for his audience of 4. Major impact on national events. “Green masters” wankedy wank. Oh well morning tea will soon be on at the home for the holiday. You might get some lammies today.
More moronic clueless nonsense from silly Luke. Here’s more research showing all the benefits we have accrued from the use of fossil fuels since the first IRev 240 years ago.
Just backs up Lomborg and Ridley’s extensive work on the subject over the past decade. Very interesting graphs from the EIA etc to back up this research.
http://www.globalwarming.org/2014/01/22/at-last-a-report-on-the-social-benefits-of-carbon/
More lies and hypocrisy from the lunatic Greens and the Fairfax media. Incredibly these morons can’t even think straight.
The very green energy they propose would cost even more lives.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/people_die_denied_the_air_conditioning_the_age_opposes/
ROFL!
🙂 🙂
‘Rather chew your arm off than deal with Debs as a client.’
Well yes Luke. . .
I guess that’s another way of saying:
”This would be a better job if we didn’t have to deal with clients/customers/ business owners etc ”
Which I also pointed out was a STUPID thing to say if you are working in a SERVICE industry. . .eg BoM.
BTW Luke? When was it that we got no data from BoM?
But Debbie if you insisted that Luke stopped saying stupid things he would be struck dumb.
Looks like another giant wind farm company is likely to go belly up.
http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/bankruptcyNews/idINL6N0KL0AP20140111
Prokon is the operator of 50 wind farms accross Germany and Poland. Even though these idiot companies are just ponzi schemes and are susidised by the taxpayer, they sooner or later run out of new investors to fleece. What corruption and fraud these Labor and Green liars have in store for us if we are stupid enough to keep voting for them.
Perverse as it sounds, we should thank Nev for alerting us all to the dangers ahead under business as usual assumptions. He is rooting for us all. We should thank him too for the link showing world emissions increasing to 2040 at only 1.9% under current policies . So don’t abandon hope Nev. Never say never.
As for the economic rubbish being touted about businesses big and small, we should at least acknowledge that the key strategy of business is to create a monopoly situation, by fair means or foul. That applies equally to farmers, the last bastion of free enterprise as evidenced by collective marketing arrangements and branding for uniqueness. Old joke went ” Yep, good news, good rain, but the bad news is it rained next door”.
Does anyone know a farmer who is sorry if the neighbours get rain? Especially if they market collectively? Does anyone know a small business where the owner just mucks around manipulating instead of earning (leftist EO and enviro etc consultants excepted)? The key strategy of business is to create a monopoly situation? The key strategy of business is to accept the fact that you’d like to but you can’t…so compete!
Strange, embittered, imaginary world of the Snob Left. They really won’t be happy till there are food queues for the rest of us…but they’ll the smug little Adam Bandts with the special privileges and dachas. Potency and recognition at last! The beach bullies who kicked sand in their faces will have to wait six hours for three eggs and an insult. That’ll learn ’em!
I see that the resident psycho is filling the air waves with yet more content free and value less dribbling… as befits a guardian of the climatariat.
But Minsey – you’re here swinging at it. ROFL !
“where the owner just mucks around manipulating instead of earning” – yes about most tradies these days actually !
And here you go – the LNP in power, Port Curtis going like a ripper, fracking away and Robby is worried about the left and food queues now. We could talk about that as we kayak through the forests couldn’t we. Sookedy sookedy sook. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeNd0gKH480
I rest my case… yet again.
You need help lad …just as well the workers pay enough in taxes so that most deranged cretins can at least get the help, they so obviously and desperately need.
Do the right thing old son…as there is no shortage of fellow nut jobs within the climatariat who could do with some counselling right now, and with your skills and experience you may have some use after all. I hear that they are looking for case managers.
Yes, there are the food queues for the final revenge…but first the energy queues!
By the way, my neighbours are tradies: chippies, plasterers, excavators etc. (Unlike Jaycee, they exist.) I’ll let them know Luke’s assessment of their performance. I’ll have to tell them in the evening, because it’s hard to catch them as they go out at 5.30 in the morning.
It really is impossible to deal with those who believe ideas and initiative must start at the top. I suppose it’s the “top” which can afford to pay our Green Betters to “advise” and generally act important from some imaginary high ground. In a small business they’d have to just get on with it.
Now play any YouTube clip whatsoever.
Bazza that 1.9% increase is per annum from 2010 to 2040 for the non OECD and only 0.2% pa for the OECD. GET IT?
And the non OECD starts from a much higher base. In 2010 non OECD 18.1 bn tonnes and OECD only 13.1 bn Ts.
2040 projections are non OECD 31.6 bn Ts and OECD only 13.9 bn Ts. Do you understand now? The 1.9% is the increase per annum for the non OECD and 0.2% is the increase per annum for the OECD. So 1.9% times 30 years and 0.2% times 30 years and I guess that’s compounding as well over that period.
http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/ieo/table20.cfm
Seriously Luke,
It was a genuine question:
When was it that you used to get no data from BoM?
And who do you claim says this? :
“Let’s set the clock back to where you used to get no data from BoM – ah yes – the good old days”
Yes Robert,
Some of my friends, neighbours and family members are tradies. Many of them do operate their own businesses and some of them work as contractors to or, employees in larger companies.
They would fall over laughing at Bazza and Luke’s assessments of their operations and the perception that they are mucking around and being manipulative and somehow getting too much of a free ride.
But let’s not forget that there are of course bad apples in all endeavours and walks of life. We still generally respect and trust the medical profession even though we know that there are some bad and unscrupulous doctors around (as just one example). There are also bad mechanics and bad electricians etc.
I strongly suspect from some of the recent comments that these 2 would not last a week if they had to suddenly earn their livelihoods as a tradie. . .although it’s still a free country the last time I checked. . .so if they wanted to have all those lurks and perks of a tradies’ life. . . or a farmer’s life … or some other small business or cooperative/contractual arrangement. . .then there’s nothing stopping them.
A very good summary of SLR by Luning and Vehrenholt. It seems that we will get similar SLR for the rest of the 21st century as we’ve just had for the 20th century. Or ZIP acceleration in SLR at all.
http://notrickszone.com/2014/01/23/german-review-sea-level-rise-way-below-projections-no-hard-basis-for-claims-of-accelerating-rise/
You are not wrong, Nev. You should be able to relax knowing that even with present slack policies global emissions are only forecast to increase to 2040 at 1.3%. I did not realise that your kindy maths kit includes compounding. If global emissions were cut to 0.5% ( feasible , don’t you think?) emissions would only increase by 1/6 by 2040 instead of doubling at 1.3%. Fortunately compounding is not very dramatic at low growth rates which is of course why you should never a borrower be. ( You would never have got into this obsession of yours about emissions if you had done more research on climate sensitivity and had not adopted a belief it was about one despite the mountain of evidence that it is a lot more than that.)
Bazz, its you and your alarmist mates who are obsessed about CO2 emissions!!!
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/ir-expert-speaks-out-after-40-years-of-silence-its-the-water-vapor-stupid-and-not-the-co2/
Tradies – don’t answer the phone, don’t get back, don’t show up, show up 4 hours late, don’t complete jobs a specified, wrong colours, wrong texture, wrong grade, don’t listen, don’t listen some more, jack up the prices mid-contract. Yea sure. All arse crack and hot utes.
Some tradies display poor behaviour. But we cant all work for the state, try North Korea Luke, they do nice central planning there and have tiny carbon footprints, you would fit in nicely, they are used to dealing with arsehalfs (it takes two of you to make an arsehole).
Bazza it’s your side who is alarmed and obsessed with co2 emissions, or hadn’t you noticed? How do you argue with someone who doesn’t even understand the basics? What do you think this argument has been about for the last 25 years?
Also the non OECD will increase emissions by 13.5 bn Ts by 2040 or about 0.45bn Ts per year for 30 years and the OECD will increase emissions by just 0.8 bn Ts by 2040 or about 0.0266 bn Ts per year for 30 years. Got it yet?
Anyone notice how some people are total magnets for dud tradies? Must have a sign on their foreheads.
Nev, you might think yokel, but act global. I ask again what do you think: If global emissions were cut to 0.5% ( feasible , don’t you think?) emissions would only increase by 1/6 by 2040 instead of doubling at 1.3%.
You might think yokel but act global – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
sp and Robert – broke a rib laughing and doing floor spins and can’t type anymore (sorry) – whatever you and your subbies like (mate)
and sp is from WA (explains it all) – explained at 28 seconds here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grh0tlJtViw
Bazza,
Did you mean cut by 0.5% or cut to 0.5%?
Big difference.
Golly Supe, I hope you didn’t hurt your sock hand when you fell. Just when Jaycee thought it was safe to go back in the forums. (And that HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA? Christian Turney says he wants his manic laugh back.)
Anyway, tradies who take jobs in our valley are on the ball and fair-priced. I wonder what we’re doing wrong? We must be a shallow lot. Yokels, so to speak.
Thank god we have you sophisticates (global non-yokels) to employ the mugs.
Gee you’re sharp Robert – how did you work out that we were Jaycee?
Well bazza I’ve given you the best projections and all countries contribute to these projections. So tell us what you mean by “to 0.5%” and then tell us how you would IMAGINE that happening?
Also give us that feasible projection in total bns Ts by 2040 and OECD and non OECD increases in bns Ts to 2040?
So if this is so easy tell us how and tell us by how much in bns Ts by 2040? Should be a soda for ya.
Luke ‘s description sounds just like most of the bureaucrats that we have to work with. . .minus the bum cracks .
Never call back. . .always late etc. . .
We learn which ones to avoid completely and which ones do actually get the job done.
Unlike the tradies. . .the useless bureaucrats still stay in the job. . .useless tradies usually don’t last very long.
They actually have to be efficient and competitive . . .otherwise people go elsewhere.
More on that unsettled science.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/unsettled_science_new_paper_concedes_extent_of_global_warming_is_highly_unc/#commentsmore
LIA was much more prone to extreme weather events than either the MWP or today. Still waiting bazza, perhaps not so feasible when you’re asked for the numbers?
Hansen’s stupid 1988 scenarios have been a spectacular failure. Amazingly scenario A is the co2 outcome but we now have observations that match scenario C.
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/01/26/more-than-a-quarter-century-since-temperatures-were-close-to-hansens-bau/
Nev, the IEA projections you endlessly mindlessly boringly quote are for business as usual BAU basis. What is usual is that BAU keeps evolving! I am suggesting that business wont continue to be as usual for more than a year or three. So under BAU, non OECD emissions increases at 1.9% pa 2010 to 2040 and OECD at 0.2. The globe is 1.3.
These are not very big rates of increase even with what you would see as the miracle of compounding, despite me alerting you that compounding does not kick in much at low rates of increase. Anyway, a model of behaviour without feedback is obviously naïve and easily misunderstood by the naïve ones chasing racket science. If you extrapolate out the window you miss all the turning points in history. The obvious reason for using a BAU projection is as a point of departure, not a destination. This is all about the journey, Nev.
My simple hypothesis is that a global increase of 0.5% pa is achievable because big reductions in energy efficiency can continue to be made. (even taking into account Jevons paradox).
Given my hypothesis and assuming reasonably OECD stays at 2010 level of 13.1 bmt, non-OECD would therefore need to about halve its rate of increase from BAU of 1.9% pa to about 1% pa. Non OECD would thus increase from 2010 level of 18.1 bmt to about 24 bmt.
So dopes can live in hope or wallow in a riskless delusion of defeat and denial.
Bazza thanks for at least having a go, but I think your projections are probably on the level of flying pigs.
Don’t you think that they would have taken all your ideas into account before arriving at those final numbers?
If the non OECD did come back by 50% it would still be about 25bn Ts by 2040 and there is a chance that the OECD numbers could blow out due to the recent increase in brown CF stns in the EU.
I’d say the OECD 13.9bn Ts could easily blow out to 15bn Ts by 2040 and perhaps more than that.
I think the electorate in the EU have had a gutful of paying very high prices for their power and will take revenge at the ballot box if dumb pollies don’t quickly respond.
But now comes your hardest part, just how do you reduce these numbers by 50% in the non OECD by 2040? Don’t forget that China and India could react with mock horror at the OECD countries return to brown CF energy and use that as an excuse to do SFA about future reductions of co2 emissions.
Nev, you ask ” Don’t you think that they would have taken all your ideas into account before arriving at those final numbers?”. well, no! which word of BAU business as usual don’t you get?
And I tried to explain “The obvious reason for using a BAU projection is as a point of departure, not a destination. This is all about the journey, Nev.”
Why don’t you just take a break.
Sorry bazza it’s not up to me to take a break, it’s up to you to prove your case. So how do you change BAU in the non OECD for the next 30 years?
I think I’ll have to link to that pie chart again and you can tell us how to re-arrange the pie. You’re the fools who foisted this on all of us by refusing to understand the numbers, so you should also tell us how to fix your problem.
So far even your best wish list does ZIP about your CAGW mitigation problem. So back to square one again.
Nev, the report you linked to has projections under various assumptions. Why don’t you actually read it now that you understand a bit about BAU.
Looks like Nifty has grabbed his kindy maths book and gone home.