So why do Noosa slacko engineers need to show a number of pictures of smokestacks that do emit CO2 and talk about steam.
And why do they need to give a power plant description with a nice description that leaves out a major process i.e. a duh what might that be – mmmmm could it be – ummmm burning coal which needs venting?” nah
7/10 and but six points for the hot presenter
and what if CO2 was purple and tasted like chocolate ? Fair suck of the sauce bottle.
In fact the steam is a classic example of water vapour feedback. That’s how GCMs model it. So for every ton of CO2 emitted you have 3 tons of steam.
what if CO2 was purple and tasted like chocolate ?
ridiculous. Everyone knows CO2 tastes like corn on the cob.
If Co2 were purple that would be a wonderful thing because it would be visual evidence for the guy down at the pub how insignificant 4 parts per million actually is, and what a bunch of whiny bed wetters you warmer are.
Hi papertiger. Long time no see. Maybe we can do another hike next month. Sorry, no more Hockey Sticks to kill this time.
Somebody please correct me if I’m mistaken about this. But it’s my understanding that mosquitoes can smell CO2. Is that right, Jennifer?
And to the mozzies, CO2 may very well smell as good as chocolate truffles. /sarc
Anyway, the CO2 that we breathe out may assist the beasties in finding suitable two-legged prey. If so, a much higher tropospheric level of this evil gas would confuse the mozzies, which would cause a slight decrease in the transmission rate of malaria.
Lukesays
No wonder he’s called papertiger – it’s the teensy weensy defence. Works well with botulism and plutonium too. If you say bedwetter after Galileo you also lose. And if you quote Feynman – well you must be a denier.
papertigersays
Sure Larry. I have a new camcorder to try out. Send me an email when the details get firmed up.
Luke, what is the significance of Galileo? Why do you keep bringing that up?
Oh and water vapor feedback has an official name. It’s called clouds. They reflect off sunlight, decreasing the planet’s albedo, thus lowering the average global temperature, and they cast shade.
Putting aside Luke’s flippancy (about a hot presenter we don’t see), the Kev talk (fair suck etc) and the sciency gobbledeegook about GCMs…check out the video around the minute-twenty mark, where it clearly shows the workings of a power station, with coal piled, delivered and burning. Now here’s what Luke wrote:
“And why do they need to give a power plant description with a nice description that leaves out a major process i.e. a duh what might that be – mmmmm could it be – ummmm burning coal which needs venting?” nah”
What you just saw, you didn’t see. 97% of those agreeing with Luke agree strongly. 3% think Luke is probably right.
Now, Luke, you know I’m very fond of you and look forward to reading your comments and ignoring your links. But please don’t start channeling Kev.
Fair suck, guys. Thanks, and that’s all, folks. Gotta zip. Where’s an airport? I have my best thought bubbles on the way to an airport.
John Sayerssays
Actually the modern coal fired power station doesn’t emit steam and it doesn’t use cooling towers. It cools the steam with fans and recycles the water.
Jeez you can’t even take the peez without Robert having a go. Moving forward Robert. Moving forward.
You should have read my links – they were the best porno.
El Gordo – hope you pinned on the fridge.
Anyway – is Malcolm Roberts a charismatic sob. He made me shout “axe the tax” at the Monckton gig. Guys I had to fit in – it was a lynch mob crowd.
John, I love any coal power station, but a newie with all the latest mods is to die for. Imagine not having the absolute best and newest gear for our most crucial infrastructure. Of course, nukes are nice too.
EG, thanks for the hope of a good bamboo season. The BOM has to get it right some time. You know what they say about monkeys and typewriters…
Say what you like about Audie Murphy and the machine gun nest. Nothing matches our Supercell walking into that angry mob wielding their falsies and walking frames. Raw guts.
Anyway, folks, have to zip. Cooking with gas. Time to rock and roll. Airport. Must zip. To an airport. Any airport. My thought bubble just had this fantastic new idea for a pre-selection…involving Cheryl Kernot…
papertigersays
At Comment from: John Sayers August 9th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
I thought that link would take me to a nice diagram of a steamless coalplant. Something like this.
Seems like a lot of added danger expolsion wise for not much different. Besides coal plants giving out copious amounts of steam are a plus for their local environments.
If I had a dollar for everytime the global warming movement died, I’d buy Jennifer a beer.
Nevillesays
Perhaps the EU is starting to wake up to the mitigation of CAGW fraud?
What a joke, the EU is starting to doubt and yet we have two parties who want to heavily tax this benificial colourless odourless gas for a zero return.
KuhnKatsays
Luke,
“In fact the steam is a classic example of water vapour feedback. That’s how GCMs model it. So for every ton of CO2 emitted you have 3 tons of steam.”
And that is why GCM’s continue to run hotter than real temps!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
KuhnKatsays
Luke,
” If you say bedwetter after Galileo you also lose. And if you quote Feynman – well you must be a denier.”
Why would I want to quote the guy who said SHUT UP AND COMPUTE when questioned about the lack of MECHANICS in QM and QT?!?!?!
Oh wait, I know why you are afraid of Feynman quotes!! The Modellers DID shut up and compute and are as lost as Quantum Theorists with their non-physical models where they have to continually ADJUST the data to keep in the discussion!!!
Well. . . 🙂
I agree their is no return on the weather/climate. . . but all that tax will go somewhere and get spent on something, somewhere. . . Unlikely that much of it will be productive or responsible or efficient or beneficial spending however.
Debbiesays
Well. . . 🙂
I agree there is no return on the weather/climate. . . but all that tax will go somewhere and get spent on something, somewhere. . . Unlikely that much of it will be productive or responsible or efficient or beneficial spending however.
KuhnKatsays
Luke and Gavin,
love the histrionics about CO2 from coal plants. Didn’t y’all notice that fly ash is more radioactive than yellowcake and uranium and has other nasty properties that are really unhealthy?? Try going after something that NEEDS fixing instead of your hallucinations!!
Oh, but that leaves you nothing to attack Gas Generators on though. Tch, tch.
Sorry about the double post. . .I must’ve messed up when I corrected their for there? 🙂
I love the histrionics too..
handjivesays
The most obvious distinction is carbon is an element and carbon dioxide is a compound.
To confuse the two is ignorance or deceitful at very least.
To benefit monetarily from that deceit is fraud.
Then again, an idiot and his money is easily parted.
Which brings me to Luke. Quote:
” If you say bedwetter after Galileo you also lose.
And if you quote Feynman – well you must be a denier.”
Luke’s comments are like the little boy trying to hold back the wall of a leaking dyke, anticipating where to put his fingers in holes to stop the truth of real science pouring out.
This physical feat is even more amazing as Luke already has his fingers in his ears, his foot in his mouth, his head buried firmly in the sand, and his opposable finger shoved somewhere …
Lukesays
“To confuse the two is ignorance or deceitful at very least.
To benefit monetarily from that deceit is fraud.
Then again, an idiot and his money is easily parted.” WHAT MORONIC DRIVEL – it’s runs out of them like diarrhea – you have to wonder if they are on drugs. What nobody know the difference. There’s some swiftie out there based on problems with lack of high school knowledge. Go hard or go home Jive-Merchant.
“the truth of real science pouring out.’ what like the sophistic blathering crappola coming from the Galileo movement. And how does sceptics who don’t publish pour out science. ROFL and rib breaking ….
KuhnKat – what histrionics? You guys have to stop having Walter Mitty moments and running around quoting Galileo and Feynman. They would find you pretentious wankers.
Debbiesays
What histrionics?
🙂 🙂 🙂
ROFL! LMAO! LOL!
That is hilarious Luke.
Pretentious wankers????
🙂 🙂 🙂
Tha’s even more hilarious.
You are soooooooo funny sometimes.
ha ha ha ha.
cohenitesays
That Malcolm Roberts is a good man. Thanks for the link luke. I thought the grains of rice analogy was particularly appropriate symbolising the relative intelligence of the AGW scientists, represented by the single grain of rice, compared with the intelligence of the sceptics with 32 grains of rice.
Brilliant! Did you pick that up luke? Oh sorry, you’re sharing that single grain with the other 97% of climate scientists!
handjivesays
Friday, August 9, 2013
Paper finds lifetime of CO2 in atmosphere is only 5.4 years
A paper presented at the SEVENTEENTH SYMPOSIUM ON THERMOPHYSICAL PROPERTIES finds that the lifetime and residence time of man-made CO2 in the atmosphere are only about 5.4 years, far less than assumed by the IPCC.
The paper corroborates prior work by Salby, Humlum et al, Frölicher et al, Cho et al, Calder et al, Francey etl, Ahlbeck, Pettersson, Segalstad, and others which has demonstrated that man-made CO2 is not the primary driver of atmospheric CO2.
Good man – pfft – I’ve seen him working the crowd. Agent provocateur ! One of your mates I’m sure.
Look at em go
A major Danish daily eh? not the Hungarian journal of chook farming? HAHAHAHAHAHA Does Lief share this alarmist crap?
And Spangled quotes a paper from a review dodge journal that publishes all sorts of rubbish. Come on get serious.
Spangled it’s not only the CO2 – one needs to know the solar input and configuration of the continents – bit of a one dimensional sort of dude aren’t you?
good to see the water vapour doing its thing – all lost on the goobers here of course
The imminent ice age probably explains the Euro heat wave (strangely not reported here by the fraud-screeching tin foil hat squad – being ice age bed-pooping alarmists)
Wow and more to come – but on here on the evidence based blog the criminal fraudulent tea-party libertarian ice-age alarmist bed-poopers are into ice ages. Fair dinkum. Fair suck of the sav. Moving forward Moving forwards. Stop the boats.
I was a bit surprised that a major like Jyllands-Posten would ride the low sun thing. The Danes do tend to less bedwetty than other Vikes. I suppose it’s a breakthrough of sorts, but I remain completely skeptical of all Ice Age and LIA predictions. Low sun is like high Antarctic ice levels and sea level rise being a phenomenon which started in the late 18th century and went quickest before the 1860s. None of it is a secret, any more than big rises in Arctic Ice prior to the late 1970s. Surely everybody has known for yonks about cycle 24’s sluggishness. Cycle 14 was quiet, but it was hardly Ice Age stuff. Shouldn’t people just observe when they don’t know? (I know, I know, that’s the exact opposite of what the climatariat do.)
It seems to be a question of what journalists decide to dramatise, and there’s a long history of journalists beating up climate change of all varieties. Really, if there is such a thing as global temp and it goes a bit higher over the next few years, I’ll just move to the beach at Lake Cathie, where sea level rise keeps prices down but never actually happens. Of course, the weaker westerlies which can keep the winters a bit milder here can also keep the summers cool, like the remarkably cool summer before last. I’m sure it was a record coolest somewhere, but I’m starting to think the word “record” used without qualification is as good as a sign on one’s forehead saying “Educated Nong”. (I’m being empirical and serious now.)
Of course, for some hardcore trash in full colour we’ve got Davey Jones and his star turn with the Conversation. Gawd. My taxes.
Anyway, I like the Galileo vids. That Malcolm Roberts is effective. He’s very Qld, isn’t he? In a good way. Thanks for the links, Luke and Jen.
Thanks guys. Must zip. My thought bubbles lose pressure when I’m not in the air. Up, up and away.
John Sayerssays
“He said there was an outside chance the previous record for the highest temperature in the UK could be broken.
This was recorded at Cheltenham in Gloucestershire on August 3 1990, when temperatures reached 37.1C (98.8F).
The heatwave follows some of the worst weather the UK has seen for centuries after severe floods earlier this year.”
“More than 300 people have drowned in Poland since May, as a heavy drinking culture and a lack of supervision on beaches contribute to a high level of accidental deaths in water.”
Sure Luke – bedwetter journalists displaying their stupidity.
BTW this week was unusually cool in Dubai – temps dropped below 40C and there was even a slight drizzle of rain.
Debbiesays
Luke,
Isn’t that German heat wave just weather or a wiggle wobble?
Wasn’t that the case when the NH recently experienced record cold?
Ah duh!
handjivesays
@Comment from: Luke August 10th, 2013 at 1:42 pm:
Quote: “And how does sceptics who don’t publish pour out science?”
Your favourite search engine is your friend. Surprise us with a couple of your examples. Like this.
First, let’s change a word in your question though …
“And how does warming alarmist who don’t publish pour out science?”
Fly with the Hadley Cell,
let all that hot air take yer
up, up and away ter places
yer’ve never been before,
experience, fer a change,
some of that ol’ black magic
nachural weather variability.
grinding noise – sight of hubcap rolling down the road ….
handjivesays
“gee Handjiver – a whole 0.00001% actually about as much scepos try to publish WOW”
Obviously this number appeared in some sort of “thought bubble” when you pulled your opposable finger out. Gotta link, Carbonboy?
More disturbing is this window/quote into the twisted mind of global warmer doomsdayers like Luke:
“Go the heatwave. Go you good thing.”
Weird. Here is another example of Jonestown/koolaid climate thinking:
BANGALORE: J Srinivasan, professor at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore, goes through his work days secretly hoping for a global major climate crisis.
As a leading climate change scientist in India, a serious crisis now would shake up people and make them act, he thinks.
The highest temp ever recorded in Greenland was before 1940 not 2013 and the earlier temp was at least 7F higher than the latest artificial ,UHIE temp at an airport.
We can conclude that we are very lucky to live at a time when extreme weather events seem to be on the decline.
But don’t expect the MSM to report any of this to the average punter.
spangled drongosays
Luke, would you like to tell your mate Tammy that instead of using dubious statistics on tide gauges in places where the land moves he could use one in one of the geologically oldest and most stable places on earth and not need any statistics at all to torture a result.
SD, the prob with sea level measurement for Fort Denison is that David Jones and the New Look BOM haven’t been able to assist with the data. The trick with torture is not to avoid using it, but to avoid leaving marks. And you don’t have to use torture. Sometimes old measurements just join the ranks of Los Desparecidos. I’m waiting for certain awkward rain gauge readings to have an unfortunate accident.
After all, the more you shorten history, the more you get to say RECORD. It’s like focusing your sea level observations on sandy barrier islands rather than on old stone forts in Sydney Harbour. If you want action, you have to make it.
Lukesays
Ever heard of taking the piss Handjob? dour bugger.
“Friends of science” what a wanker graph. This sort of dishonest fraudulent crap has been hit for six so often – scale bodging, hand drawn lines, no representation of the actual forcings, no representation of the trend. Crap.
Neville even for you this is CRAP “Highest August Arctic ice extent since 2006” Mate come on. It’s piffle. A datum point in a trend argument.
“We can conclude that we are very lucky to live at a time when extreme weather events seem to be on the decline.” AMAZING – Neville being a devotee of PDO/AMO would understand and has touted the decadal nature of such things.
and more “Record high August Antarctic ice extent” yep evidence of AGW as the glaciers melt (my cites above) and each summer it all disappears eh?
Saw it on disinformation site like Wottsy burger – a crap op ed and the news boy brings it over with his brain in neutral.
And what a lack of duty of care to us Neville. You’re a disgrace. You have miserably FAILED to point out the WILD swings in tornadoes. And man we are talking wild. Does this what AGW means – extreme changes in circulation – you’re a cherrypicker Nevvy boy and a newsboy parrot.
Pick up the game Nevvy – stop slumming around BotchUpAllThat.crap
Lukesays
Robert – would that be the new look BoM where you’ve never had so much data access or the old look Kinimonth BoM? More sooking by gramps. Bring back the good old days.
Come on, Luke. As one old white guy to another old white guy: You really think there was an era of stabler climate? You really believe that all eras don’t show trends, and trends which end? Because they’re, um, trends?
Answer quick, you crusty old cracker, before those nimble young warmies make some more data-bunnies disappear on you. They’re so quick and you’re kinda slow.
Anyhoo, folks, gotta zip. Big 747 set to go. Tweet-tweet. Mate.
Oh! OK?
🙂
So if Luke and his alarmist mates (and their mostly unpublished blog posts) say it’s just weather or a wiggle wobble then it is. . . and if they say it’s a trend then it is too.
That is truly fascinating.
Luke? Did you not comprehend the ‘pots and kettles’ comment I made at an earlier thread? It works both ways petal.
And BTW . . .Yes the amount of available data at BOM has dramatically improved. . .BUT!!!! . . . their ability/accuracy with seasonal forecasting? ????. . . Not so much.
Robert @ 12:38pm . . . spot on re ‘trends’ in weather/climate.
Lukesays
Robert – the ultimate defence – OK there are trends but there are always trends. hmmmm
Beth – well my dear if you’re happy to get your information from an unpublished (in serious literature) self-confessed stats doofus – good luck to you. Do you get your financial advice from astrologers too?
Read the caveats Serf-girlie
Bob sez ….
“I displayed my very limited understanding of statistics in this post. This was pointed out to me a great number times by many different people in numerous comments received in the WattsUpWithThat cross post.The errors in that initial portion of the post were so many and so great that they detracted from the bulk of the post, which was about the El Niño-Southern Oscillation. Please disregard this post and the WUWT cross post, and any other cross posts that may exist.”
and
“Originally, when I wrote the post about Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), I had not included my error-filled discussion about their regression analysis. That was a last minute addition. Lesson learned.”
BTW posts are backed up with papers dearie (of course you didn’t read them did you)
Seasonal forecasting – well they have actually. Do you have any real information to the contrary? Of course not.
But that’s not the point is it? Never satisfied goal posting shifting Robert is dismayed at all these data. Soon it will be “too much” data.
Luke, old feller, back in your day there was good data. Some of that stlll hangs around, and there’s some handy new stuff. (They do something with their time at the BOM.) None of the (surviving) old stuff is a big deal, except to show that it was worse than they thought, just as it’s now worse than they thought, or think, or will think. They’re not terrific at thinking, these weather boffins, but they were never meant to be. Farmers wanted to be told stuff for their taxes, so BOM told ’em stuff. CRU catered to insurers, which didn’t go so well. Now the green and urban New Class has the reins and want to be told stuff. So the boffins tell ’em stuff. You know, all that CO2 drivel, so even hard-headed Germans will bet the house on solar. (Someone besides money-shufflers must have known super-smart Germans are historically dumb about policy. Maybe the nuke-and-hydro Frogs told ’em solar would expunge their war guilt or something? Mon dieu, how the euros roll in, roll in!)
There’s some good info and handy tech out there. Me, I’d love to see billions spent on more of it. When this Lysenkoism passes soon, things will be better. The New Class will be recognised as the same posh old Trots who tried to wreck the joint last century. You’d know all about it, old feller. You’re very last century. I’m one of your fans, Luke, but I’m into nostalgia and old stuff generally. You’re like Disco Stu to me. Love the way you strut and caper and have all the right moves. Don’t let anyone put you down and tell you you’re antiquated. I look forward to reading many more of your comments and ignoring many more of your links.
handjivesays
Taking the piss?
It’s a laugh a minute when you wish heatwave and crop failure, drought or scarce water resources on some one just so you feel vindicated and all fuzzy inside saving the world.
Yeah, that sorta joke would seem funny to socia-pathic catastrophist.
Me? Dour?
Trust me, Carbonboy, you provide many laughs with your comments, unsubstantiated numbers/stats, unoriginal ad hom and failed links. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
Debbiesays
Sorry Luke petal,
there is no paper on the German hot week. . . Just your newspaper reports commenting on the WEATHER and trying to make if sound ALARMING!
Same goes for UK. . . first the cold and then the hot.
The seasonal weather is just that . . . WEATHER!
Depending on your start/stop points. . . the WEATHER . . . could be seen to be supporting any number of trends.
Ah duh!
And of course I am intensely interested in BOM seasonal forecasting. . . I always, always, always have been.
Has it perchance slipped your mind what I do for a living?
I like it when someone points out the weaknesses in their research, sorta socratic
and climate method honesty. Not so keen on … ahem… publically funded research
teams goin’ ter great length ter conceal their errors and machinations as exposed
in Climatgate and Harry-read-me files.
A serf averse ter walls.
papertigersays
@ Comment from: John Sayers August 10th, 2013 at 10:42 pm
Laughing at The highest temperature they ever recorded in the UK was 98.8F.
Might break out a sweat. Heh.
Someone warm up the bath will ya.
papertigersays
Also laughing at Luke who only accepts evidence (of what we know not) from confirmed liars and conmen.
“Say won’t those windmills, blighting the landscape, situated in migratory fly ways, wipe out endangered bird species?”
Not according to the windmill salesmen says Luke, and they’re the only people we really need to ask.
House cats!
Lukesays
Robert waffles off on his real agenda. zzzzzzz Lysenkoism – wank wank. More goal post shifting now … Robert’s smart though – a moving ever morphing target with no trends allowed and definitely maxing out on any vaguely suitable anecdote from the anec-library.
Debs asked to fess up on forecasting – more waffle. No facts Deb-speak. Debs – The heat wave was just doing you own tactics back to you? And you swung at it? Gawd.
Beth – pls email via Jen the Google Translate module for serfs. Que?
Wuss-tiger – did I say anything about windmills. Stop verballing matey. But hey heatwaves and ice ages? hmmmm
Handjive what an appalling pseudo-sledge by you. I almost passed out in boredom. You’re like a whinegy little kid stamping their feet. You received some significant bits of research in recent posts. All we get in return is a bit of a bitch. You’re just not very good are you. Put your Mum on and we’ll chat.
So significant research on Antarctic sea ice, Everest snow and ice, US snowpack and Hadley cell expansion. Real science and all you guys can perform is a goon show.
Really unimpressive guys. Stop following around in my wake. I know I’m good but try to articulate a proposition with clarity.
My latest video will explain how.
papertigersays
at the swap meet I picked up a pigeon decoy with a clip incorporated into the design so you can attach it to the clothes line.
Just curious what would happen. It didn’t bring in pigeons so much as calm down the already present pigeons, so that they would loiter more comfortably, be less wary of foot traffic in the backyard. Also it brought in a hawk. Picture of hawk.
The peacock started squawking, loudly. So loudly that I have become aquainted with long term neighbors whom I’ve never had occasion to talk to before.
I’d always wondered what sets him off. Previously I had assumed the peacock’s random calls were due to libido. Now I have to give the thing another think.
How often does the hawk patrol the area? Does the peacock go off everytime a bird of prey shows up?
Could be.
Notice the trend is more snow, but even more interesting is that 1978 has the highest recorded snow extent. Why is that interesting? Because that’s the year all of Luke’s Arctic ice trends start at.
Phony baloney, plastic banana, good time rock n rollers, have been pulling the con since day one.
spsays
“(Someone besides money-shufflers must have known super-smart Germans are historically dumb about policy. Maybe the nuke-and-hydro Frogs told ‘em solar would expunge their war guilt or something? Mon dieu, how the euros roll in, roll in!)”
Very well put – thank you JS
papertigersays
Luke seems like you should have enough on your plate dealing with that ice free Antarctic to go sniffing after ice on our end of the planet.
Supercell, you know the rules for fogies. No stimulants post pm. Just the Horlicks, or you’ll go right off and get us both sin-binned again. Blubbery old Polish guys your age overindulge at the beach, next thing you know…the neo-Lysenkoists start blaming global warming!
It’s not the trends, it’s the substances, Supercell. The substances! You can’t handle that stuff like when you were forty.
Good advice ter you from Robert, Luke.
Night, night, sleep tight. )
Bts.
Debbiesays
Yes Luke,
that is the point. POTS & KETTLES!
I does indeed work both ways . . . both sides. . . same tactics. . . means nothing.
When BOM or any others spend our money on getting waaaaay waaaay, waaaay better at seasonal forecasting, then us lot who work everyday, every week, every season, year in and year out in the ‘REAL’ environment/weather/climate will love you forever.
At the moment we are spectacularly unimpressed.
Lukesays
Of course when I have asked you before what you wanted you couldn’t tell me (or Bazza). So you don’t know what you actually want or what better (- up/down) is. Hmmmmm
papertigersays
@ Comment from: Luke August 11th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Looks to me like an illustration of a successful avalanche abatement program as it was implimented and perfected over a course of years.
No doubt the above charts are anecdotes, while the spring chart is science. Also, it’s the spring, stupid…or something. (Need to look it up on SkS or the Tammy who isn’t Debbie Reynolds or Sandra Dee. Will get back to us.)
You’re on fire, Supe.
Debbiesays
Of course I know Luke. . . What a stupendous ‘pretentious wanker’ type comment you make at 6.06 am.
🙂 🙂 🙂 LOL!
The person/people who has/have NO CLUE. . . are the ones who make ridiculous ‘holier than thou’ statements like yours and presume that they ‘know’ what is best for us.
Lukesays
Sigh Robert – put your Mum on – It’s not my cite. Spring is the critical season that James failed to cite with his first Rutgers link (being a good denier). And look at the trend. But to get the subtlety you’d have to read one of my dreaded (choke) links.
Of course, it’s all about critical seasons as opposed to non-critical seasons and subtlety. And Mum. And trends. And Sigh. And not your cite. And a link which proves Brisbane comedians are even lamer than Melbourne comedians. And…and we’ll think of something, after a quick phone-a-friend. And, speaking of friends, you know what Bazza always used to say about Debs…
On Rutgers! I thought we only saw this beastly sort of material on Watts. Why is this happening? Tammy, tell me true!
Debbiesays
No Luke petal,
it does indeed appear that you have great difficulty in understanding us.
Or maybe. . . you find it easier to deliberately misunderstand us. . . at the same time as you pretentiously (as in being a pretentious wanker) attempt to pass judgement about people & professions which you obviously possess scant practical knowledge.
Us lot who work out in the real climate/weather/environment are not that difficult to understand you know. We are not all that impressed with rude and pretentious wankers who big note themselves and presume they are the self appointed judge and jury of what we might/might not want or what might/might not be for our own good.
I repeat. . . when BOM and others radically improve their seasonal forecasting ability/accuracy. . . people like me will love them forever and ever
That will be the time to ask questions about HOW we would like it presented to us.
Actually there isn’t anything wrong with the way info is presented at the moment. The BOM site is reasonably user friendly.
Until then it is just old dogs with new tricks or mutton dressing up as lamb. . . GEDDIT?
Luke, it just occurred to me that you may be the guy in the video. In that case, don’t be discouraged by any comment of mine. I love it when anyone has a go and risks the end of the twig, especially in something as hard as comedy. So, if that’s you performing, you just keep plugging away. All power to those who expose themselves and take a shot when others stand back.
It’s a bit like planting a crop, isn’t it? The expensive seed, the expensive machinery and fertiliser, all the work and prep, exposed to animals and elements…
Comedy, farming…it all take’s guts.
Lukesays
A hand waving over reaching “radically improve their seasonal forecasting ability/accuracy” – as usual Debs – meaningless to engage with – for what, when, with what lead, making decisions about what?
It’s like a discussion with jelly. “Just give us the works” says Debs.
Debs do you know what perfect knowledge means in terms of a forecast.
Luke,
What makes you think that us lot don’t use this information?
I’m finding this exchange quite illuminating.
Lukesays
It’s above your head unless you’re smarter than you’ve made on. Haven’t seen any signs yet.
papertigersays
Naw. It’s like the utilities district. They have overhead lines that they have to clear trees out of. So every year they come and chop out the shady part of our tree, and they do the same for all the other trees down the line. Once a tree is cut on it goes on a list. The list gets serviced every year, and due to sagging lines or off kilter poles trees are sometimes added to the list.
But no tree is ever removed from the list.
Same thing happens with the avalache prevention. Independent local authorities procure their own artilery piece for mitigating “dangerous” snow drifts. Once a snow packed hill is on the list it gets mitigated year after year like clockwork, whether it needs it or not, because ammo is cheap, not to mention fun.
No hill is ever removed from the list. Only added as this logging road or that gets wiped off the hill by avalanche. The list get’s bigger, more comprehensive.
Here’s a good movie illustration of our N America avalanche problem.. “the Pathfinder“. Stars one of youse guys. Karl Urban. Does a decent enough job pretending to be an American. 😉
Debbiesays
Luke,
That comment was not very smart of you.
We have been using this information for years.
If it was ‘over the head’ of people like me. . . . then who is it designed to be assisting?
Think very carefully before you put your other foot in your mouth.
Lukesays
So you’ve been using for years eh? Debs it had just been released. There is no “years”. Thanks for proving my entire point.
Debbiesays
Did you miss the old dogs/new tricks . . . mutton/lamb reference Luke?
Also note you missed the ‘over the head’ question.
Instead. . . in went the other foot.
The poama stuff is not all that radically improved in accuracy/ability in seasonal forecasting Luke.
What do you think it has been developed from?
Debbiesays
Also. . . because I’m feeling a little sorry for you. . . We have been using info from Europe, from Russia, from Asia, the US etc for years. . . as their climate/weather info tends to impact what happens to our commodity prices and markets.
But seriously. . . I am wondering who you think these new ways of presenting are for. . .if you think it’s pitched way over the heads of people like me? 🙂 🙂
People like miners and builders and logistic/transporters etc would also be wondering I would imagine.
Lukesays
Debbie caught bluffing attempts a diversion – utterly shameless Debs.
“The poama stuff is not all that radically improved in accuracy/ability in seasonal forecasting Luke” spruiks Debs not ever having used it nor studied it before. Gee I don’t even know myself ! You must be good…
“What do you think it has been developed from?” oh just a totally different approach!? Nothing much – sheez !
Debs you a total bullshit artist just as Bazza assumed. Any attempt to engage seriously is met with stupid irrelevant comments and diversionary tactics. And you say you’re interested. You’ve got all these criticisms but can’t tell us once what you’d use the information for. Give it away eh? When you say “we” have been using”. Well your family/mates may have but it ain’t you is it.
And now a little ruse to pretend we’ve been talking about elsewhere in the world. Moving those goal posts as fast as Robert.
No, no. No more moving goalposts (or strawmen or ad homs or cherry picks or, y’know, debating stuff that Bazza always warned about). I totally get that with all that meltiness in the Arctic over the last decades you are going to get a lot of spring and summer melt. Gotta melt some time, right? And I’m sure that nothing can counterbalance so much melting. We must be really running out of snow and ice globally and…and…what’s this?
Oh no! Someone shifted the goalposts! It was Wattsie, or Debs. Bazza always used to say…over and over again he warned…Watch that Debs. Watch the rice chick, Bazza used to say. Ah, Bazza. Pray he’s still out there somewhere, like Mad Max or Zorro.
But I can see there’ll be no more Mr. Nice Luke. I feel sorry for any pensioner groups that get in his way today. (Luke has this secret stealth weapon for dealing with pensioner groups. He can pass for one of them!)
Lukesays
Ah so now the goal post are over there …. it’s just a jump to the left (of course)
(Bazza? – Robert look out the window – see that van that’s been there for days – he’s in there)
Script: – Debs will come back with a diversionary lecture with lots of ROFLs and 🙂 🙂 🙂
I say 🙁
Debbiesays
What you’d use the information for?
SSSSUUUUUUUURRRRRREEEEELLLLLYYY you jest?
Maybe you have serious comprehension difficulties?
Did you perhaps miss me saying
a) It is a new way of presenting the information @ 11:47 & b) that this information tends to impact our commodity prices and markets?
And still waiting for you to explain who/what you think this ‘new approach’ is designed to service if you (and the great all knowing Bazza who must be a member of the ministry of ‘we know what’s best for you’ )think it’s ‘over the heads ‘ of people like me?
AND YES! very good. . . I am most definitely finding your comments highly entertaining at the moment. . . or put simply. . . I am laughing at you.
BTW it looks like Robert has blown your cover? Don’t tell me that you are a ‘white male over 50’ ? How deliciously ironic.
Lukesays
Caught out Debs.
Debbiesays
🙂 🙂
So . . . Mr white male over 50 . . . who/what is this ‘new approach’ designed to service and inform if you believe it is ‘over the heads’ of someone like me?
Lukesays
Could be black 40-50 too
Previous forecasting was done via an arcane statistical system while this new method is a full process simulation model. That’s chalk and cheese.
Question whether the skill is demonstrably better. Seasonal and multi-week.
Not sure how you would use in a decision analytic myself. i.e. you also would have noted the very different method for downscaling data vis a vis the previous use of analogue years.
Debbiesays
Well yes Luke,
the question could be whether the skill is demonstrably better. . . but that wasn’t my question.
So far. . . since the upgrades . . The seasonal forecasting accuracy/ability is not proving to be significantly better (although it has improved a little but I suspect that has more to do with oceans and air currents behaving more predictably at the moment)
While I am interested in HOW it is done. . . my question was definitely more about the WHY.
And to stay at least partly on topic. . . I can’t see the obsession and consequent time and money spent on the role of ACO2 providing any useful extra benefit in seasonal forecasting.
Lukesays
WHAT – WHAT WHAT WHAT stupidity is this?
“I can’t see the obsession and consequent time and money spent on the role of ACO2 providing any useful extra benefit in seasonal forecasting.” WHAT ?????????
Debbie what’s the difference between a duck? Your comment is supersonically moronic, bereft of any indication of intelligent life.
“I can’t see the obsession and consequent time and money spent on the role of ACO2 providing any useful extra benefit in seasonal forecasting.” ummmmm they don’t ….. what a dumb bum
As for “since the upgrades” – you’ve made a decision on one month have you?
Debbie you have no idea which way is even up.
Debbiesays
I can see you have no inention of answering the question Luke.
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
Read more
First person to say Galileo loses.
So why do Noosa slacko engineers need to show a number of pictures of smokestacks that do emit CO2 and talk about steam.
And why do they need to give a power plant description with a nice description that leaves out a major process i.e. a duh what might that be – mmmmm could it be – ummmm burning coal which needs venting?” nah
7/10 and but six points for the hot presenter
and what if CO2 was purple and tasted like chocolate ? Fair suck of the sauce bottle.
In fact the steam is a classic example of water vapour feedback. That’s how GCMs model it. So for every ton of CO2 emitted you have 3 tons of steam.
Hey, where is this steam coming from?
Great little power station article here
http://www.brighthubengineering.com/power-plants/18082-coal-fired-thermal-power-plant-the-basic-steps-and-facts/
what if CO2 was purple and tasted like chocolate ?
ridiculous. Everyone knows CO2 tastes like corn on the cob.
If Co2 were purple that would be a wonderful thing because it would be visual evidence for the guy down at the pub how insignificant 4 parts per million actually is, and what a bunch of whiny bed wetters you warmer are.
Hi papertiger. Long time no see. Maybe we can do another hike next month. Sorry, no more Hockey Sticks to kill this time.
Somebody please correct me if I’m mistaken about this. But it’s my understanding that mosquitoes can smell CO2. Is that right, Jennifer?
And to the mozzies, CO2 may very well smell as good as chocolate truffles. /sarc
Anyway, the CO2 that we breathe out may assist the beasties in finding suitable two-legged prey. If so, a much higher tropospheric level of this evil gas would confuse the mozzies, which would cause a slight decrease in the transmission rate of malaria.
No wonder he’s called papertiger – it’s the teensy weensy defence. Works well with botulism and plutonium too. If you say bedwetter after Galileo you also lose. And if you quote Feynman – well you must be a denier.
Sure Larry. I have a new camcorder to try out. Send me an email when the details get firmed up.
Luke, what is the significance of Galileo? Why do you keep bringing that up?
Oh and water vapor feedback has an official name. It’s called clouds. They reflect off sunlight, decreasing the planet’s albedo, thus lowering the average global temperature, and they cast shade.
Sometimes they even make rain.
Putting aside Luke’s flippancy (about a hot presenter we don’t see), the Kev talk (fair suck etc) and the sciency gobbledeegook about GCMs…check out the video around the minute-twenty mark, where it clearly shows the workings of a power station, with coal piled, delivered and burning. Now here’s what Luke wrote:
“And why do they need to give a power plant description with a nice description that leaves out a major process i.e. a duh what might that be – mmmmm could it be – ummmm burning coal which needs venting?” nah”
What you just saw, you didn’t see. 97% of those agreeing with Luke agree strongly. 3% think Luke is probably right.
Now, Luke, you know I’m very fond of you and look forward to reading your comments and ignoring your links. But please don’t start channeling Kev.
Fair suck, guys. Thanks, and that’s all, folks. Gotta zip. Where’s an airport? I have my best thought bubbles on the way to an airport.
Actually the modern coal fired power station doesn’t emit steam and it doesn’t use cooling towers. It cools the steam with fans and recycles the water.
Excellent article in Quandrant:
http://www.quadrant.org.au/magazine/issue/2013/7-8/the-age-of-global-warming-is-over
🙂 🙂
The LOSER (with a big capital L) is the one who assumes they can make up the rules on this blog (and their name is not Jennifer Marohasy).
Big rains coming to MDB.
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/ahead/rain_ahead.shtml
Negative IOD and neutral ENSO.
Jeez you can’t even take the peez without Robert having a go. Moving forward Robert. Moving forward.
You should have read my links – they were the best porno.
El Gordo – hope you pinned on the fridge.
Anyway – is Malcolm Roberts a charismatic sob. He made me shout “axe the tax” at the Monckton gig. Guys I had to fit in – it was a lynch mob crowd.
Here’s Mal (and what a nice tie may I say) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC1l4geSTP8&feature=c4-overview&list=UU2UkS2qtnu7L3krRTF6bQIw It’s just drivel isn’t it – all the old talking points and sophistry.
John, I love any coal power station, but a newie with all the latest mods is to die for. Imagine not having the absolute best and newest gear for our most crucial infrastructure. Of course, nukes are nice too.
EG, thanks for the hope of a good bamboo season. The BOM has to get it right some time. You know what they say about monkeys and typewriters…
Say what you like about Audie Murphy and the machine gun nest. Nothing matches our Supercell walking into that angry mob wielding their falsies and walking frames. Raw guts.
Anyway, folks, have to zip. Cooking with gas. Time to rock and roll. Airport. Must zip. To an airport. Any airport. My thought bubble just had this fantastic new idea for a pre-selection…involving Cheryl Kernot…
At Comment from: John Sayers August 9th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
I thought that link would take me to a nice diagram of a steamless coalplant. Something like this.
http://www.flowserve.com/files/Files/Images/Industries/static/020-I-Ultra-Super-Critical_Steam_large.png
Seems like a lot of added danger expolsion wise for not much different. Besides coal plants giving out copious amounts of steam are a plus for their local environments.
If I had a dollar for everytime the global warming movement died, I’d buy Jennifer a beer.
Perhaps the EU is starting to wake up to the mitigation of CAGW fraud?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/09/europe-bails-on-green-energy/#more-91331
What a joke, the EU is starting to doubt and yet we have two parties who want to heavily tax this benificial colourless odourless gas for a zero return.
Luke,
“In fact the steam is a classic example of water vapour feedback. That’s how GCMs model it. So for every ton of CO2 emitted you have 3 tons of steam.”
And that is why GCM’s continue to run hotter than real temps!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Luke,
” If you say bedwetter after Galileo you also lose. And if you quote Feynman – well you must be a denier.”
Why would I want to quote the guy who said SHUT UP AND COMPUTE when questioned about the lack of MECHANICS in QM and QT?!?!?!
Oh wait, I know why you are afraid of Feynman quotes!! The Modellers DID shut up and compute and are as lost as Quantum Theorists with their non-physical models where they have to continually ADJUST the data to keep in the discussion!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Well. . . 🙂
I agree their is no return on the weather/climate. . . but all that tax will go somewhere and get spent on something, somewhere. . . Unlikely that much of it will be productive or responsible or efficient or beneficial spending however.
Well. . . 🙂
I agree there is no return on the weather/climate. . . but all that tax will go somewhere and get spent on something, somewhere. . . Unlikely that much of it will be productive or responsible or efficient or beneficial spending however.
Luke and Gavin,
love the histrionics about CO2 from coal plants. Didn’t y’all notice that fly ash is more radioactive than yellowcake and uranium and has other nasty properties that are really unhealthy?? Try going after something that NEEDS fixing instead of your hallucinations!!
Oh, but that leaves you nothing to attack Gas Generators on though. Tch, tch.
Tiger – here’s what I was referring to.
http://www.csenergy.com.au/content-(42)-kogan-creek.htm
Sorry about the double post. . .I must’ve messed up when I corrected their for there? 🙂
I love the histrionics too..
The most obvious distinction is carbon is an element and carbon dioxide is a compound.
To confuse the two is ignorance or deceitful at very least.
To benefit monetarily from that deceit is fraud.
Then again, an idiot and his money is easily parted.
Which brings me to Luke. Quote:
” If you say bedwetter after Galileo you also lose.
And if you quote Feynman – well you must be a denier.”
Luke’s comments are like the little boy trying to hold back the wall of a leaking dyke, anticipating where to put his fingers in holes to stop the truth of real science pouring out.
This physical feat is even more amazing as Luke already has his fingers in his ears, his foot in his mouth, his head buried firmly in the sand, and his opposable finger shoved somewhere …
“To confuse the two is ignorance or deceitful at very least.
To benefit monetarily from that deceit is fraud.
Then again, an idiot and his money is easily parted.” WHAT MORONIC DRIVEL – it’s runs out of them like diarrhea – you have to wonder if they are on drugs. What nobody know the difference. There’s some swiftie out there based on problems with lack of high school knowledge. Go hard or go home Jive-Merchant.
“the truth of real science pouring out.’ what like the sophistic blathering crappola coming from the Galileo movement. And how does sceptics who don’t publish pour out science. ROFL and rib breaking ….
KuhnKat – what histrionics? You guys have to stop having Walter Mitty moments and running around quoting Galileo and Feynman. They would find you pretentious wankers.
What histrionics?
🙂 🙂 🙂
ROFL! LMAO! LOL!
That is hilarious Luke.
Pretentious wankers????
🙂 🙂 🙂
Tha’s even more hilarious.
You are soooooooo funny sometimes.
ha ha ha ha.
That Malcolm Roberts is a good man. Thanks for the link luke. I thought the grains of rice analogy was particularly appropriate symbolising the relative intelligence of the AGW scientists, represented by the single grain of rice, compared with the intelligence of the sceptics with 32 grains of rice.
Brilliant! Did you pick that up luke? Oh sorry, you’re sharing that single grain with the other 97% of climate scientists!
Friday, August 9, 2013
Paper finds lifetime of CO2 in atmosphere is only 5.4 years
A paper presented at the SEVENTEENTH SYMPOSIUM ON THERMOPHYSICAL PROPERTIES finds that the lifetime and residence time of man-made CO2 in the atmosphere are only about 5.4 years, far less than assumed by the IPCC.
The paper corroborates prior work by Salby, Humlum et al, Frölicher et al, Cho et al, Calder et al, Francey etl, Ahlbeck, Pettersson, Segalstad, and others which has demonstrated that man-made CO2 is not the primary driver of atmospheric CO2.
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com.au/2013/08/paper-finds-lifetime-of-co2-in.html
That extra ACO2 must be why this summer’s Arctic sea ice is 50% greater than last summer’s.
Even John Cook says that ice ages occur at 3000 ppm:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/CO2-was-higher-in-late-Ordovician.htm
And even the Danes are tipping another LIA:
http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/09/major-danish-daily-warns-globe-may-be-on-path-to-little-ice-age-much-colder-winters-dramatic-consequences/
Yet more cooling from increasing CO2. Science paper. The earth’s surface cooled from 1982 to 2006 according to satellite data:
http://objectivistindividualist.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/earth-surface-cooled-from-1982-to-2006.html
Well I hope the Danes are wrong. Give me a bit extra warmth any day.
Me too Neville. I’ve just been roughing it, camping in freezing conditions in croc infested waters that I expected would be warm.
Yet more cooling:
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/07/31/arctic-ice-growth-since-1971/
Good man – pfft – I’ve seen him working the crowd. Agent provocateur ! One of your mates I’m sure.
Look at em go
A major Danish daily eh? not the Hungarian journal of chook farming? HAHAHAHAHAHA Does Lief share this alarmist crap?
And Spangled quotes a paper from a review dodge journal that publishes all sorts of rubbish. Come on get serious.
Spangled it’s not only the CO2 – one needs to know the solar input and configuration of the continents – bit of a one dimensional sort of dude aren’t you?
For Cohenite something empirical and serious – http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2013EGUGA..15.4833P
for the quick take – http://www.wmo.int/pages/prog/www/IMOP/publications/IOM-109_TECO-2012/Session3/P3_07_Philipona_Radiation_profiles.pdf
good to see the water vapour doing its thing – all lost on the goobers here of course
The imminent ice age probably explains the Euro heat wave (strangely not reported here by the fraud-screeching tin foil hat squad – being ice age bed-pooping alarmists)
Wot ice age?
http://theconversation.com/2013-shaping-up-to-be-one-of-australias-hottest-years-on-record-16295
Keep talking it up guys.
Luke – Germany and Belgium are NOT Europe and their pathetic heat wave where it reached 35C!! only lasted a week. Get real!
No wonder it was not reported.
But John how can we be having heat waves – when we are plummeting into an ice age. Get real yourself and stop bed pooping.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-62786/Britain-set-week-heatwave.html Go the heatwave. Go you good thing.
Maybe not – Deadly heatwave – http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/drown-as-heatwave-grips-poland/story-e6frfkui-1226691757205 this is on ice age alarmists hands
http://www.wunderground.com/news/europe-heat-wave-breaks-record-highs-20130728
Wow and more to come – but on here on the evidence based blog the criminal fraudulent tea-party libertarian ice-age alarmist bed-poopers are into ice ages. Fair dinkum. Fair suck of the sav. Moving forward Moving forwards. Stop the boats.
I was a bit surprised that a major like Jyllands-Posten would ride the low sun thing. The Danes do tend to less bedwetty than other Vikes. I suppose it’s a breakthrough of sorts, but I remain completely skeptical of all Ice Age and LIA predictions. Low sun is like high Antarctic ice levels and sea level rise being a phenomenon which started in the late 18th century and went quickest before the 1860s. None of it is a secret, any more than big rises in Arctic Ice prior to the late 1970s. Surely everybody has known for yonks about cycle 24’s sluggishness. Cycle 14 was quiet, but it was hardly Ice Age stuff. Shouldn’t people just observe when they don’t know? (I know, I know, that’s the exact opposite of what the climatariat do.)
It seems to be a question of what journalists decide to dramatise, and there’s a long history of journalists beating up climate change of all varieties. Really, if there is such a thing as global temp and it goes a bit higher over the next few years, I’ll just move to the beach at Lake Cathie, where sea level rise keeps prices down but never actually happens. Of course, the weaker westerlies which can keep the winters a bit milder here can also keep the summers cool, like the remarkably cool summer before last. I’m sure it was a record coolest somewhere, but I’m starting to think the word “record” used without qualification is as good as a sign on one’s forehead saying “Educated Nong”. (I’m being empirical and serious now.)
Of course, for some hardcore trash in full colour we’ve got Davey Jones and his star turn with the Conversation. Gawd. My taxes.
Anyway, I like the Galileo vids. That Malcolm Roberts is effective. He’s very Qld, isn’t he? In a good way. Thanks for the links, Luke and Jen.
Thanks guys. Must zip. My thought bubbles lose pressure when I’m not in the air. Up, up and away.
“He said there was an outside chance the previous record for the highest temperature in the UK could be broken.
This was recorded at Cheltenham in Gloucestershire on August 3 1990, when temperatures reached 37.1C (98.8F).
The heatwave follows some of the worst weather the UK has seen for centuries after severe floods earlier this year.”
“More than 300 people have drowned in Poland since May, as a heavy drinking culture and a lack of supervision on beaches contribute to a high level of accidental deaths in water.”
Sure Luke – bedwetter journalists displaying their stupidity.
BTW this week was unusually cool in Dubai – temps dropped below 40C and there was even a slight drizzle of rain.
Luke,
Isn’t that German heat wave just weather or a wiggle wobble?
Wasn’t that the case when the NH recently experienced record cold?
Ah duh!
@Comment from: Luke August 10th, 2013 at 1:42 pm:
Quote: “And how does sceptics who don’t publish pour out science?”
Your favourite search engine is your friend. Surprise us with a couple of your examples. Like this.
First, let’s change a word in your question though …
“And how does warming alarmist who don’t publish pour out science?”
Answer Example:
1. An Inconvenient Truth- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnjx6KETmi4
2. Karoly/Gergis – http://retractionwatch.wordpress.com/?s=karoly+gergis
no Debs – it’s a trend
gee Handjiver – a whole 0.00001% actually about as much scepos try to publish WOW
Fly with the Hadley Cell,
let all that hot air take yer
up, up and away ter places
yer’ve never been before,
experience, fer a change,
some of that ol’ black magic
nachural weather variability.
Beth thanks for mentioning the Hadley cell for which we should all be more concerned about than anything – yes Beth it’s widening – http://meteora.ucsd.edu/~jnorris/sio209.fa11/Johanson2009.pdf
Hot avatar too Beth very nice.
But thanks for playing – next !
Oh and getting back to who was it on Antarctica – El Gordo I think
http://www.knmi.nl/cms/mmbase/attachments/112945/ngeo1767.pdf
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/zhang/Pubs/Zhang_Antarctic_20-11-2515.pdf
Yep it’s the older counter-intuitive trick – Robert loves them.
Exocet up the jacksy – has to hurt. Oh the standards, http://tamino.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/a-mournful-application-of-care-and-skill/
grinding noise – sight of hubcap rolling down the road ….
“gee Handjiver – a whole 0.00001% actually about as much scepos try to publish WOW”
Obviously this number appeared in some sort of “thought bubble” when you pulled your opposable finger out. Gotta link, Carbonboy?
More disturbing is this window/quote into the twisted mind of global warmer doomsdayers like Luke:
“Go the heatwave. Go you good thing.”
Weird. Here is another example of Jonestown/koolaid climate thinking:
BANGALORE: J Srinivasan, professor at the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) in Bangalore, goes through his work days secretly hoping for a global major climate crisis.
As a leading climate change scientist in India, a serious crisis now would shake up people and make them act, he thinks.
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2012-10-01/news/34198227_1_climate-change-iisc-carbon-dioxide
Lewandowski would have an appointment for you on his couch if he really practised genuine psychiatry.
Reality is, Doomsday wisher Luke and the 2 Professors are certifiable.
Here’s another BS story about a recent “highest temp ever recorded in Greenland” nonsense.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/10/how-not-to-measure-temperature-part-94-maniitsoq-greenland-all-time-high-temperature-rescinded/#more-91374
The highest temp ever recorded in Greenland was before 1940 not 2013 and the earlier temp was at least 7F higher than the latest artificial ,UHIE temp at an airport.
Global cooling has begun.
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=453
What the trend is like for us trying to live in our world at nearly 400 ppmv.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/08/10/what-the-year-of-living-dangerously-at-nearly-400-ppm-of-co2-in-earths-atmosphere-looks-like/#more-91398
We can conclude that we are very lucky to live at a time when extreme weather events seem to be on the decline.
But don’t expect the MSM to report any of this to the average punter.
Luke, would you like to tell your mate Tammy that instead of using dubious statistics on tide gauges in places where the land moves he could use one in one of the geologically oldest and most stable places on earth and not need any statistics at all to torture a result.
http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_global_station.shtml?stnid=680-140
SD, the prob with sea level measurement for Fort Denison is that David Jones and the New Look BOM haven’t been able to assist with the data. The trick with torture is not to avoid using it, but to avoid leaving marks. And you don’t have to use torture. Sometimes old measurements just join the ranks of Los Desparecidos. I’m waiting for certain awkward rain gauge readings to have an unfortunate accident.
After all, the more you shorten history, the more you get to say RECORD. It’s like focusing your sea level observations on sandy barrier islands rather than on old stone forts in Sydney Harbour. If you want action, you have to make it.
Ever heard of taking the piss Handjob? dour bugger.
“Friends of science” what a wanker graph. This sort of dishonest fraudulent crap has been hit for six so often – scale bodging, hand drawn lines, no representation of the actual forcings, no representation of the trend. Crap.
Neville even for you this is CRAP “Highest August Arctic ice extent since 2006” Mate come on. It’s piffle. A datum point in a trend argument.
“We can conclude that we are very lucky to live at a time when extreme weather events seem to be on the decline.” AMAZING – Neville being a devotee of PDO/AMO would understand and has touted the decadal nature of such things.
and more “Record high August Antarctic ice extent” yep evidence of AGW as the glaciers melt (my cites above) and each summer it all disappears eh?
Saw it on disinformation site like Wottsy burger – a crap op ed and the news boy brings it over with his brain in neutral.
And what a lack of duty of care to us Neville. You’re a disgrace. You have miserably FAILED to point out the WILD swings in tornadoes. And man we are talking wild. Does this what AGW means – extreme changes in circulation – you’re a cherrypicker Nevvy boy and a newsboy parrot.
http://www.pmarshwx.com/blog/2013/05/07/which-is-more-rare-the-current-tornado-drought-or-the-2011-2012-tornado-surplus/
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2401
Weather whiplash – jet stream changes. All over Nev’s head of course.
Nev has missed the big snow decline story of the year http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3587&from=rss_home It’s a trend dough boy !
Neville’s oh so selective press clipping service of crap failed to provide the serious news of Everest losing snow and ice over 50 years http://moa.agu.org/2013/media-center/press-item/scientists-find-extensive-glacial-retreat-in-mount-everest-region/
Pick up the game Nevvy – stop slumming around BotchUpAllThat.crap
Robert – would that be the new look BoM where you’ve never had so much data access or the old look Kinimonth BoM? More sooking by gramps. Bring back the good old days.
Come on, Luke. As one old white guy to another old white guy: You really think there was an era of stabler climate? You really believe that all eras don’t show trends, and trends which end? Because they’re, um, trends?
Answer quick, you crusty old cracker, before those nimble young warmies make some more data-bunnies disappear on you. They’re so quick and you’re kinda slow.
Anyhoo, folks, gotta zip. Big 747 set to go. Tweet-tweet. Mate.
Herewith on the Hadley Cell from Bob Tisdale. Read his e-book.
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2013/06/30/a-very-ridiculous-comment-by-the-author-of-a-recent-skepticalscience-post/
Oh! OK?
🙂
So if Luke and his alarmist mates (and their mostly unpublished blog posts) say it’s just weather or a wiggle wobble then it is. . . and if they say it’s a trend then it is too.
That is truly fascinating.
Luke? Did you not comprehend the ‘pots and kettles’ comment I made at an earlier thread? It works both ways petal.
And BTW . . .Yes the amount of available data at BOM has dramatically improved. . .BUT!!!! . . . their ability/accuracy with seasonal forecasting? ????. . . Not so much.
Robert @ 12:38pm . . . spot on re ‘trends’ in weather/climate.
Robert – the ultimate defence – OK there are trends but there are always trends. hmmmm
Beth – well my dear if you’re happy to get your information from an unpublished (in serious literature) self-confessed stats doofus – good luck to you. Do you get your financial advice from astrologers too?
Read the caveats Serf-girlie
Bob sez ….
“I displayed my very limited understanding of statistics in this post. This was pointed out to me a great number times by many different people in numerous comments received in the WattsUpWithThat cross post.The errors in that initial portion of the post were so many and so great that they detracted from the bulk of the post, which was about the El Niño-Southern Oscillation. Please disregard this post and the WUWT cross post, and any other cross posts that may exist.”
and
“Originally, when I wrote the post about Foster and Rahmstorf (2011), I had not included my error-filled discussion about their regression analysis. That was a last minute addition. Lesson learned.”
WOW !!!!!
Let’s just walk away very very quietly.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/01/02/tisdale-takes-on-taminos-foster-rahmstorf-2011/
Debbie are you still swinging at my rampant bait?
BTW posts are backed up with papers dearie (of course you didn’t read them did you)
Seasonal forecasting – well they have actually. Do you have any real information to the contrary? Of course not.
But that’s not the point is it? Never satisfied goal posting shifting Robert is dismayed at all these data. Soon it will be “too much” data.
Luke, old feller, back in your day there was good data. Some of that stlll hangs around, and there’s some handy new stuff. (They do something with their time at the BOM.) None of the (surviving) old stuff is a big deal, except to show that it was worse than they thought, just as it’s now worse than they thought, or think, or will think. They’re not terrific at thinking, these weather boffins, but they were never meant to be. Farmers wanted to be told stuff for their taxes, so BOM told ’em stuff. CRU catered to insurers, which didn’t go so well. Now the green and urban New Class has the reins and want to be told stuff. So the boffins tell ’em stuff. You know, all that CO2 drivel, so even hard-headed Germans will bet the house on solar. (Someone besides money-shufflers must have known super-smart Germans are historically dumb about policy. Maybe the nuke-and-hydro Frogs told ’em solar would expunge their war guilt or something? Mon dieu, how the euros roll in, roll in!)
There’s some good info and handy tech out there. Me, I’d love to see billions spent on more of it. When this Lysenkoism passes soon, things will be better. The New Class will be recognised as the same posh old Trots who tried to wreck the joint last century. You’d know all about it, old feller. You’re very last century. I’m one of your fans, Luke, but I’m into nostalgia and old stuff generally. You’re like Disco Stu to me. Love the way you strut and caper and have all the right moves. Don’t let anyone put you down and tell you you’re antiquated. I look forward to reading many more of your comments and ignoring many more of your links.
Taking the piss?
It’s a laugh a minute when you wish heatwave and crop failure, drought or scarce water resources on some one just so you feel vindicated and all fuzzy inside saving the world.
Yeah, that sorta joke would seem funny to socia-pathic catastrophist.
Me? Dour?
Trust me, Carbonboy, you provide many laughs with your comments, unsubstantiated numbers/stats, unoriginal ad hom and failed links.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
Sorry Luke petal,
there is no paper on the German hot week. . . Just your newspaper reports commenting on the WEATHER and trying to make if sound ALARMING!
Same goes for UK. . . first the cold and then the hot.
The seasonal weather is just that . . . WEATHER!
Depending on your start/stop points. . . the WEATHER . . . could be seen to be supporting any number of trends.
Ah duh!
And of course I am intensely interested in BOM seasonal forecasting. . . I always, always, always have been.
Has it perchance slipped your mind what I do for a living?
Say Luke ,
I like it when someone points out the weaknesses in their research, sorta socratic
and climate method honesty. Not so keen on … ahem… publically funded research
teams goin’ ter great length ter conceal their errors and machinations as exposed
in Climatgate and Harry-read-me files.
A serf averse ter walls.
@ Comment from: John Sayers August 10th, 2013 at 10:42 pm
Laughing at The highest temperature they ever recorded in the UK was 98.8F.
Might break out a sweat. Heh.
Someone warm up the bath will ya.
Also laughing at Luke who only accepts evidence (of what we know not) from confirmed liars and conmen.
“Say won’t those windmills, blighting the landscape, situated in migratory fly ways, wipe out endangered bird species?”
Not according to the windmill salesmen says Luke, and they’re the only people we really need to ask.
House cats!
Robert waffles off on his real agenda. zzzzzzz Lysenkoism – wank wank. More goal post shifting now … Robert’s smart though – a moving ever morphing target with no trends allowed and definitely maxing out on any vaguely suitable anecdote from the anec-library.
Debs asked to fess up on forecasting – more waffle. No facts Deb-speak. Debs – The heat wave was just doing you own tactics back to you? And you swung at it? Gawd.
Beth – pls email via Jen the Google Translate module for serfs. Que?
Wuss-tiger – did I say anything about windmills. Stop verballing matey. But hey heatwaves and ice ages? hmmmm
Handjive what an appalling pseudo-sledge by you. I almost passed out in boredom. You’re like a whinegy little kid stamping their feet. You received some significant bits of research in recent posts. All we get in return is a bit of a bitch. You’re just not very good are you. Put your Mum on and we’ll chat.
So significant research on Antarctic sea ice, Everest snow and ice, US snowpack and Hadley cell expansion. Real science and all you guys can perform is a goon show.
Really unimpressive guys. Stop following around in my wake. I know I’m good but try to articulate a proposition with clarity.
My latest video will explain how.
at the swap meet I picked up a pigeon decoy with a clip incorporated into the design so you can attach it to the clothes line.
Just curious what would happen. It didn’t bring in pigeons so much as calm down the already present pigeons, so that they would loiter more comfortably, be less wary of foot traffic in the backyard. Also it brought in a hawk.
Picture of hawk.
The peacock started squawking, loudly. So loudly that I have become aquainted with long term neighbors whom I’ve never had occasion to talk to before.
I’d always wondered what sets him off. Previously I had assumed the peacock’s random calls were due to libido. Now I have to give the thing another think.
How often does the hawk patrol the area? Does the peacock go off everytime a bird of prey shows up?
Could be.
Anyhow, here’s a chart from the Rutgers University Global Snow Lab. http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=1
Notice the trend is more snow, but even more interesting is that 1978 has the highest recorded snow extent. Why is that interesting? Because that’s the year all of Luke’s Arctic ice trends start at.
Phony baloney, plastic banana, good time rock n rollers, have been pulling the con since day one.
“(Someone besides money-shufflers must have known super-smart Germans are historically dumb about policy. Maybe the nuke-and-hydro Frogs told ‘em solar would expunge their war guilt or something? Mon dieu, how the euros roll in, roll in!)”
Very well put – thank you JS
Luke seems like you should have enough on your plate dealing with that ice free Antarctic to go sniffing after ice on our end of the planet.
Huffington Post reports Antarctica without ice.
Whatever will the penguins do? Better get right on that.
Supercell, you know the rules for fogies. No stimulants post pm. Just the Horlicks, or you’ll go right off and get us both sin-binned again. Blubbery old Polish guys your age overindulge at the beach, next thing you know…the neo-Lysenkoists start blaming global warming!
It’s not the trends, it’s the substances, Supercell. The substances! You can’t handle that stuff like when you were forty.
Off to bed with you now.
Papertiger – nice source – did you check http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=namgnld&ui_season=2 off you go now …. careful …. don’t bump into anything
Robert – OK gramps – I’m sorry. Humph ! and I was on a roll too.
Good advice ter you from Robert, Luke.
Night, night, sleep tight. )
Bts.
Yes Luke,
that is the point. POTS & KETTLES!
I does indeed work both ways . . . both sides. . . same tactics. . . means nothing.
When BOM or any others spend our money on getting waaaaay waaaay, waaaay better at seasonal forecasting, then us lot who work everyday, every week, every season, year in and year out in the ‘REAL’ environment/weather/climate will love you forever.
At the moment we are spectacularly unimpressed.
Of course when I have asked you before what you wanted you couldn’t tell me (or Bazza). So you don’t know what you actually want or what better (- up/down) is. Hmmmmm
@ Comment from: Luke August 11th, 2013 at 9:19 pm
Looks to me like an illustration of a successful avalanche abatement program as it was implimented and perfected over a course of years.
Dream on James. That would look the opposite.
I pressed just to see if SuperC had read his own link (you never know with older people). Seemed to make his point for him. Then I saw this…uh, oh…
http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=namgnld&ui_season=1
And then…oh, no!
http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=namgnld&ui_season=4
No doubt the above charts are anecdotes, while the spring chart is science. Also, it’s the spring, stupid…or something. (Need to look it up on SkS or the Tammy who isn’t Debbie Reynolds or Sandra Dee. Will get back to us.)
You’re on fire, Supe.
Of course I know Luke. . . What a stupendous ‘pretentious wanker’ type comment you make at 6.06 am.
🙂 🙂 🙂 LOL!
The person/people who has/have NO CLUE. . . are the ones who make ridiculous ‘holier than thou’ statements like yours and presume that they ‘know’ what is best for us.
Sigh Robert – put your Mum on – It’s not my cite. Spring is the critical season that James failed to cite with his first Rutgers link (being a good denier). And look at the trend. But to get the subtlety you’d have to read one of my dreaded (choke) links.
Such as this informative one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmabxQzkFrw
Well if you know Debs – you seem to have great difficulty in telling us. Face it – you really don’t know. You’re just raving on.
Of course, it’s all about critical seasons as opposed to non-critical seasons and subtlety. And Mum. And trends. And Sigh. And not your cite. And a link which proves Brisbane comedians are even lamer than Melbourne comedians. And…and we’ll think of something, after a quick phone-a-friend. And, speaking of friends, you know what Bazza always used to say about Debs…
Just as well winter trends are non-critical and counter-intuitive…because it’s the whole bloody hemisphere!
http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=nhland&ui_season=1
On Rutgers! I thought we only saw this beastly sort of material on Watts. Why is this happening? Tammy, tell me true!
No Luke petal,
it does indeed appear that you have great difficulty in understanding us.
Or maybe. . . you find it easier to deliberately misunderstand us. . . at the same time as you pretentiously (as in being a pretentious wanker) attempt to pass judgement about people & professions which you obviously possess scant practical knowledge.
Us lot who work out in the real climate/weather/environment are not that difficult to understand you know. We are not all that impressed with rude and pretentious wankers who big note themselves and presume they are the self appointed judge and jury of what we might/might not want or what might/might not be for our own good.
I repeat. . . when BOM and others radically improve their seasonal forecasting ability/accuracy. . . people like me will love them forever and ever
That will be the time to ask questions about HOW we would like it presented to us.
Actually there isn’t anything wrong with the way info is presented at the moment. The BOM site is reasonably user friendly.
Until then it is just old dogs with new tricks or mutton dressing up as lamb. . . GEDDIT?
Luke, it just occurred to me that you may be the guy in the video. In that case, don’t be discouraged by any comment of mine. I love it when anyone has a go and risks the end of the twig, especially in something as hard as comedy. So, if that’s you performing, you just keep plugging away. All power to those who expose themselves and take a shot when others stand back.
It’s a bit like planting a crop, isn’t it? The expensive seed, the expensive machinery and fertiliser, all the work and prep, exposed to animals and elements…
Comedy, farming…it all take’s guts.
A hand waving over reaching “radically improve their seasonal forecasting ability/accuracy” – as usual Debs – meaningless to engage with – for what, when, with what lead, making decisions about what?
It’s like a discussion with jelly. “Just give us the works” says Debs.
Debs do you know what perfect knowledge means in terms of a forecast.
Luke,
Do you know what a season is?
3-6 months hence
Just for Debs http://poama.bom.gov.au/poama_workshop.shtml
Luke,
What makes you think that us lot don’t use this information?
I’m finding this exchange quite illuminating.
It’s above your head unless you’re smarter than you’ve made on. Haven’t seen any signs yet.
Naw. It’s like the utilities district. They have overhead lines that they have to clear trees out of. So every year they come and chop out the shady part of our tree, and they do the same for all the other trees down the line. Once a tree is cut on it goes on a list. The list gets serviced every year, and due to sagging lines or off kilter poles trees are sometimes added to the list.
But no tree is ever removed from the list.
Same thing happens with the avalache prevention. Independent local authorities procure their own artilery piece for mitigating “dangerous” snow drifts. Once a snow packed hill is on the list it gets mitigated year after year like clockwork, whether it needs it or not, because ammo is cheap, not to mention fun.
No hill is ever removed from the list. Only added as this logging road or that gets wiped off the hill by avalanche. The list get’s bigger, more comprehensive.
Here’s a good movie illustration of our N America avalanche problem..
“the Pathfinder“. Stars one of youse guys. Karl Urban. Does a decent enough job pretending to be an American. 😉
Luke,
That comment was not very smart of you.
We have been using this information for years.
If it was ‘over the head’ of people like me. . . . then who is it designed to be assisting?
Think very carefully before you put your other foot in your mouth.
So you’ve been using for years eh? Debs it had just been released. There is no “years”. Thanks for proving my entire point.
Did you miss the old dogs/new tricks . . . mutton/lamb reference Luke?
Also note you missed the ‘over the head’ question.
Instead. . . in went the other foot.
The poama stuff is not all that radically improved in accuracy/ability in seasonal forecasting Luke.
What do you think it has been developed from?
Also. . . because I’m feeling a little sorry for you. . . We have been using info from Europe, from Russia, from Asia, the US etc for years. . . as their climate/weather info tends to impact what happens to our commodity prices and markets.
But seriously. . . I am wondering who you think these new ways of presenting are for. . .if you think it’s pitched way over the heads of people like me? 🙂 🙂
People like miners and builders and logistic/transporters etc would also be wondering I would imagine.
Debbie caught bluffing attempts a diversion – utterly shameless Debs.
“The poama stuff is not all that radically improved in accuracy/ability in seasonal forecasting Luke” spruiks Debs not ever having used it nor studied it before. Gee I don’t even know myself ! You must be good…
“What do you think it has been developed from?” oh just a totally different approach!? Nothing much – sheez !
Debs you a total bullshit artist just as Bazza assumed. Any attempt to engage seriously is met with stupid irrelevant comments and diversionary tactics. And you say you’re interested. You’ve got all these criticisms but can’t tell us once what you’d use the information for. Give it away eh? When you say “we” have been using”. Well your family/mates may have but it ain’t you is it.
And now a little ruse to pretend we’ve been talking about elsewhere in the world. Moving those goal posts as fast as Robert.
No, no. No more moving goalposts (or strawmen or ad homs or cherry picks or, y’know, debating stuff that Bazza always warned about). I totally get that with all that meltiness in the Arctic over the last decades you are going to get a lot of spring and summer melt. Gotta melt some time, right? And I’m sure that nothing can counterbalance so much melting. We must be really running out of snow and ice globally and…and…what’s this?
http://www.climatedata.info/Impacts/Impacts/snow_files/BIGglobal_snow_and_ice.gif.gif
Oh no! Someone shifted the goalposts! It was Wattsie, or Debs. Bazza always used to say…over and over again he warned…Watch that Debs. Watch the rice chick, Bazza used to say. Ah, Bazza. Pray he’s still out there somewhere, like Mad Max or Zorro.
But I can see there’ll be no more Mr. Nice Luke. I feel sorry for any pensioner groups that get in his way today. (Luke has this secret stealth weapon for dealing with pensioner groups. He can pass for one of them!)
Ah so now the goal post are over there …. it’s just a jump to the left (of course)
“I’ve got to keep control” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtkdo7bOmJc
In another dimension …. with a bit of a mind flip
(Bazza? – Robert look out the window – see that van that’s been there for days – he’s in there)
Script: – Debs will come back with a diversionary lecture with lots of ROFLs and 🙂 🙂 🙂
I say 🙁
What you’d use the information for?
SSSSUUUUUUUURRRRRREEEEELLLLLYYY you jest?
Maybe you have serious comprehension difficulties?
Did you perhaps miss me saying
a) It is a new way of presenting the information @ 11:47 & b) that this information tends to impact our commodity prices and markets?
And still waiting for you to explain who/what you think this ‘new approach’ is designed to service if you (and the great all knowing Bazza who must be a member of the ministry of ‘we know what’s best for you’ )think it’s ‘over the heads ‘ of people like me?
AND YES! very good. . . I am most definitely finding your comments highly entertaining at the moment. . . or put simply. . . I am laughing at you.
BTW it looks like Robert has blown your cover? Don’t tell me that you are a ‘white male over 50’ ? How deliciously ironic.
Caught out Debs.
🙂 🙂
So . . . Mr white male over 50 . . . who/what is this ‘new approach’ designed to service and inform if you believe it is ‘over the heads’ of someone like me?
Could be black 40-50 too
Previous forecasting was done via an arcane statistical system while this new method is a full process simulation model. That’s chalk and cheese.
Question whether the skill is demonstrably better. Seasonal and multi-week.
Not sure how you would use in a decision analytic myself. i.e. you also would have noted the very different method for downscaling data vis a vis the previous use of analogue years.
Well yes Luke,
the question could be whether the skill is demonstrably better. . . but that wasn’t my question.
So far. . . since the upgrades . . The seasonal forecasting accuracy/ability is not proving to be significantly better (although it has improved a little but I suspect that has more to do with oceans and air currents behaving more predictably at the moment)
While I am interested in HOW it is done. . . my question was definitely more about the WHY.
And to stay at least partly on topic. . . I can’t see the obsession and consequent time and money spent on the role of ACO2 providing any useful extra benefit in seasonal forecasting.
WHAT – WHAT WHAT WHAT stupidity is this?
“I can’t see the obsession and consequent time and money spent on the role of ACO2 providing any useful extra benefit in seasonal forecasting.” WHAT ?????????
Debbie what’s the difference between a duck? Your comment is supersonically moronic, bereft of any indication of intelligent life.
“I can’t see the obsession and consequent time and money spent on the role of ACO2 providing any useful extra benefit in seasonal forecasting.” ummmmm they don’t ….. what a dumb bum
As for “since the upgrades” – you’ve made a decision on one month have you?
Debbie you have no idea which way is even up.
I can see you have no inention of answering the question Luke.