A new fisheries paper, Fiskeribladet, states that the Norweigan whaling and sealing industries are in serious trouble.
According to the Marine Research Institute (Havsforskningsinstituttet), the seals in the East Ice Area (off Russia) and the minkes in the North East Atlantic are consuming as much fish as the entire Norwegian fisheries fleet.
“That’s why it is important that the quotas must be filled”, states the Board for the Ship Owner’s Association (member of the High North Alliance).
They state as well that they are not satisfied with the Government’s ambitions regarding whaling and sealing.
So far, Tuesday April 15, no whaling boats have left the ports, despite higher whale meat prices.
“We believe this is as well due to bad weather conditions, it’s still almost winter,” said a spokesman for the whalers and fishermen.
Rieber Skinn AS in Bergen, a subsidiary to GC Rieber (the world’s biggest purchaser of Canadian seal pelts) will close down. They will reopen a processing factory in Canada. Does this mean that most Norwegian seal pelts will be processed in Canada?
http://www.fiskeribladetfiskaren.no/?side=101&lesmer=6951
Cheers,
Ann
Sweden
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
I have some news from Japan, via the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7346656.stm
Says the BBC journo:
“If they caught just 60% of what they had hoped to, it is reasonable to conclude their income will fall by 40%.
It is unlikely that bringing home fewer whales from the Southern Ocean will raise prices because of a shortage of supply. There is reported to be a glut in the market already.”
… whale meat stock levels slipped to a 4-year low as of the end of February but admittedly, unlike the “glut” of whale meat, this hasn’t been reported.
http://david-in-tokyo.blogspot.com/2008/04/whale-meat-stockpile-hits-4-year-low.html
Furthermore, public officials later the exact same day directly contradicted this BBC speculation, saying that price rises may be inevitable.
***
I have some news from Australia as well:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23549763-5005961,00.html
“Opposition environment spokeswoman Sharman Stone said Mr Rudd’s failure to visit Japan on his recent world trip, his failure to appoint the promised whale ambassador and the failure of Mr Garrett to decide what to do with his threatened legal challenges, showed Labor’s “chest thumping” about whaling was simply that.”
Of course the price of whale meat will go up. The price of oil is $US114 a barrel, the price of wheat has gone up 130% and consequently, the price of chicken, pork and beef will also go up. In short, the price of protein has gone up and as whale meat is protein it will also go up.
But tell us, Paul, how do you get a headline about trouble for the industry from that text? Prices are going up and the need to fill quotas is being recognised so how does that translate into “trouble”?
” But tell us, Paul, how do you get a headline about trouble for the industry from that text? Prices are going up and the need to fill quotas is being recognised so how does that translate into “trouble”?” – Motty
As has been mentioned earlier, the biggest actor on the whale meat market has declared that whaling is in a downward spiral.
According to the article as well, fewer whaling boats will participate in this years hunt AND still there is a quite poor demand for fresh whale meat. Whalers semm to wait for sunnier weather as the demand for whale meat will increase with warmer weather and the barbeque season.
According to the paper the situation for whaling and sealing is very serious .
I’m not sure if my translation is correct re this translation : it seems like the industry wants to hurry the Parliament re a new ” white paper” re the marine mammal policy”????
Motty,
The whale meat prices are also set ” artificially” to boost the whale hunting . The whale meat price will go down again June 1.
It doesn’t mention any of that spin in the text, Ann. And given your past form on these topics, I will wait for a proper translation.
The problem with your claim that whale meat prices are set artificially to boost the whale hunt is the fact that the prices of all other meats has risen to a point where the whale meat is no longer “artificial” at all. And as prices of other meats continue to rise there will be both an increase in demand for whale meat and an increase in prices that will encourage more whaling.
I bet they could sell a few container loads of whale meat in Zimbabwe at the moment, and many other places. So it doesn’t sound like trouble at all, unless it is trouble for the whale wallies and Greenponce activists.
One reader of the blog and a prominent scientist on marine mammals e-mailed me and told me that the translation was correct re the ” white paper”.
Note as well that the Norwegians recently have stated that export of whale meat is ” out of question”.
Which Norwegians stated that Ann?
Looks like Inuit in Nunavut are going to be snacking on a few more bowhead whales soon.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2008/04/16/science-bowhead-arctic.html
“One reader of the blog and a prominent scientist on marine mammals e-mailed me …”
I’m having a hard time imagining why a prominent marine mammal scientist would waste his time on this blog.
It’s not as if there’s much real information on marine mammals or even the politics surrounding them to be had here and Ann’s contributions are of the usual Greenpeace propaganda line with a few decontextualized quotes and links to news articles reporting the animal protest industry fundraising hype.
I really wouldn’t have thought that such a prominent scientist would find much meat here.
Just watch some mainstraim media and IPCC person cross this line soon
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.365.jpg
David,
From the Rune thread :
” Lise Mangseth states as well:
International marketing of whale meat is out of question”.
” Norway can export whale products , but other countries are not open to import whale meat products from Norway. And I don’t know why it is so.”
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/troms_og_finnmark/1.5315796
states the director for marketing of whale meat, Lise Mangseth for ” Norwegian Råfisklaget” and ” the Council for marketing of whale”.
“I’m having a hard time imagining why a prominent marine mammal scientist would waste his time on this blog.”
I suggest you revisit archives to enlighten yourself.
Thank you Libby that’s most enlightening and helpful as usual.
I rest my case.
Might I suggest to the Norwegians that they could really turn the screws on the econazis by using whale meat as the method of payment (or part payment) for employing third world labourers on carbon sequestration projects like forest restoration. I imagine the North Koreans would be very receptive.
The footage of hundreds of day labourers lining up for their whale meat and 75% cash payment after a day planting trees to off-set Al Gore’s SUV and air travel emissions would be priceless.
And while some nations may not approve the importing of whale meat due to political pressure, there is nothing to stop them selling whale meat from ships just outside the territorial limits to any nationals who can organise a short trip in an open boat. And there is nothing to stop them advertising the sale of that meat through word of mouth and other non-official sources.
Whale meat is a resource, it has a value, and having a value, it has a market. That market, in some places, may not be an officially sanctioned one. But, in many places it seems that starving people ARE officially sanctioned. And as the saying goes, “when injustice becomes law then disobedience becomes obligatory”. The Norwegians just need to think outside the square and get some street smarts.
Ann,
Re the Lise Mangseth comment, perhaps it is in reference to the current situation, as opposed to the future situation?
If it was “out of the question” that whale exports could occur in future, I don’t think I would have be read such information about those matters in the Japanese business media.
iceclass, thanks for the news about the bowheads.
I also found some interesting papers from an IWC/SC workshop held in March on their homepage recently:
http://www.iwcoffice.org/sci_com/workshops/GREENLANDworkshop.htm
“Thank you Libby that’s most enlightening and helpful as usual.
I rest my case.”
You’re welcome. As you are so encouraging of Ann finding information for herself, I thought you might appreciate your own advice.
Excerot from the article that I have quoted from :
” That Norwegian whaling is in trouble , there is no doubt about it, but one-sided/ narrow/ biased marketing of whale meat does’t solve the whole problem, states Lise Mangseth.
” But international marketing of whale meat is not a theme” ( I have roughly translated this as ” out of question”).
But according to the Coastal Party , there has been an international campaign aagainst Norwegian and international whaling for many years.
Now the only solution to get some help is to market Norwegian whaling as sustainable.
To this responded Lise Mangseth ” that international marketing is not a ( one?) theme.
Interpret this as you want David.
I see Ann, I’ll wait and see. There being so little whale here at the moment retail prices are going to go up for sure later in the year unless additional supply can be obtained.
Here in Japan the criticism of Rudd and Garrett being “cowards” is discussed on a popular message board (400+ comments in 12 hours or so).
The idea of a “whale ambassador” is quite funny to some. Should be good entertainment when the ambassador for whales finally arrives.
As for IceClasses comments that my contributions are quoted from Greenpeace sources and from the ” animal protest industry”.
In the above post , there are only links and quotes from the professional fishermens / whalers/ sealers own paper, Fiskeribladet Fiskaren.
So it seems like you have a issue with that the whalers and the paper are open minded about the problems in the industry???
And IceClass, I have on several occasions provided translations from The Icelandic Minke Whaler’s Association, wouldn’t call that the animal protest industry. ( Sorry, you’re just a fu***-u***!)
And for readers information there are brand new news from Iceland from the whaler’s site , but the respons from IceClass is so negative , that I will only post it privately to some readers of the blog.
So let me get this straight, Ann. You are withholding information to punish Iceclass for expressing an opinion contrary to yours? Sounds about right for a closet econazi.
Ian, let’s get this straight. IceClass is not interested in any information from me, be it anti whaling or not . He just looks at the name that has posted it and starts ranting.
And Ian, if you’re interested in the info from Iceland , I can post it to you as well ! I can get your e-mail adress from Jen.
But back to reality , I will be away for a longer period this spring , so won’t have any time to conribute for a longer period.
Don’t let ’em get to you Ann. It’s interesting reading your news from up north, which we all know comes from a variety of sources. You and David both provide translations from non-English articles, which is more than what most here do, including myself.
“As you are so encouraging of Ann finding information for herself, I thought you might appreciate your own advice.”
Give the dead horse a rest Libby.
There’s a substantial difference between the time required to merely check the status of a species and to research the history of localised muskox reintroduction programs.
“but the respons from IceClass is so negative , that I will only post it privately to some readers of the blog.”
It would make more sense in the wiki-age of collaboration to ban me and keep the information flowing than to make such a childish show.
I’m never quite sure what you find negative, Ann. It seems to be more my mere presence you object to than anything substantive.
If I am really that much of a negative and disruptive participant here then as moderator it is your right if not your duty to ban me and I have no doubt you would be supported in your actions by the other contributors.
If you wish to get more respect from me you could earn some by providing evidence to back up your assertion that the Nunavut Government increased Polar Bear quotas to provide more bears for the sports hunting tourism sector. You made a number of unsubstantiated accusations around the same time directed at staff and their motivations.
You have been not only asked to provide proof of your assertions and accusations but you were offered my assistance if you failed to gain adequate answers from your enquiries to the Nunavut government directly. You have consistently evaded doing so and retreat into bruised feelings and further whining and conflict making. I might also add that my offer came despite my living in an area where questioning government and power may well come at more personal direct cost than where you live.
I made some attempt however clumsy to give you what insight I might have into the importance and role of the hunt here. I was generally met with your dismissive derision if not insults and further accusations. I like I believe most of my peers up here wish to see everything possible done to ensure that Polar Bears as well as all other species are well managed but I also know that there’s a lot of competing interests around these parts and most from elsewhere who are in competition with wildlife.
The North is going to go through another phase of serious development and we could use all the allies and interest possible to ensure that development is orderly, beneficial to locals as well as able to make a profit and to have as little impact on our wildlife as possible.
I’ve yet to see how your constant and gratuitous anti-hunter hunter slurs are of any environmental or political worth or how it helps empower walrus hunters at the margins of political and economic power who have concerns about the mega-projects that are proposed in their lands and waters.
If, you have any information to share or questions you might need help eliciting answers to then please, by all means join the circle and make it stronger.
If, on the other hand you are more interested in spreading gratuitous slander against hunters, Government managers or myself without proof or backup then expect to get a negative reaction.
A little less personal “ethics” and proseletysing and a little more hard usable information might be good.
Dave, I have the DFO Eastern Arctic assessment docs in pdf as well as some other goodies if you want them feel free to send me an email or go to source. Cheers.
BTW David Have you read McLuhan’s Children: Greenpeace and the media by Stephen Dale?
I think this reviewer possibly has her conclusions a bit wrong but I think you might find the book up your street.
http://www.sources.com/SSR/Docs/SSR42-7-Greenpeace.htm
Mott might find this one interesting, I know I did:
http://www.ubcpress.ca/search/title_book.asp?BookID=4523
“Kiumajut [Talking Back]: Game Management and Inuit Rights 1900-70 examines Inuit relations with the Canadian state, with a particular focus on two interrelated issues. The first is how a deeply flawed set of scientific practices for counting animal populations led policymakers to develop policies and laws intended to curtail the activities of Inuit hunters. Animal management informed by this knowledge became a justification for attempts to educate and, ultimately, to regulate Inuit hunters. The second issue is Inuit responses to the emerging regime of government intervention. The authors look closely at resulting court cases and rulings, as well as Inuit petitions. The activities of the first Inuit community council are also examined in exploring how Inuit began to “talk back” to the Canadian state. ”
“As you are so encouraging of Ann finding information for herself, I thought you might appreciate your own advice.”
Give the dead horse a rest Libby.
There’s a substantial difference between the time required to merely check the status of a species and to research the history of localised muskox reintroduction programs.
“but the respons from IceClass is so negative , that I will only post it privately to some readers of the blog.”
It would make more sense in the wiki-age of collaboration to ban me and keep the information flowing than to make such a childish show.
I’m never quite sure what you find negative, Ann. It seems to be more my mere presence you object to than anything substantive.
If I am really that much of a negative and disruptive participant here then as moderator it is your right if not your duty to ban me and I have no doubt you would be supported in your actions by the other contributors.
If you wish to get more respect from me you could earn some by providing evidence to back up your assertion that the Nunavut Government increased Polar Bear quotas to provide more bears for the sports hunting tourism sector. You made a number of unsubstantiated accusations around the same time directed at staff and their motivations.
You have been not only asked to provide proof of your assertions and accusations but you were offered my assistance if you failed to gain adequate answers from your enquiries to the Nunavut government directly. You have consistently evaded doing so and retreat into bruised feelings and further whining and conflict making. I might also add that my offer came despite my living in an area where questioning government and power generally may well come at more personal direct cost than where you live.
I made some attempt however clumsy to give you what insight I might have into the importance and role of the hunt here. I was generally met with your dismissive derision if not insults and further accusations. I, like I believe, most of my peers up here wish to see everything possible done to ensure that Polar Bears as well as all other species are well managed but I also know that there’s a lot of competing interests around these parts and most from elsewhere who are in competition with wildlife.
The North is going to go through another phase of serious development and we could use all the allies and interest possible to ensure that development is orderly, beneficial to locals as well as able to make a profit and to have as little impact on our wildlife as possible.
I’ve yet to see how your constant and gratuitous anti-hunter slurs are of any environmental or political worth or how it helps empower walrus hunters at the margins of political and economic power who have concerns about the mega-projects that are proposed in their lands and waters.
If, you have any information to share or questions you might need help eliciting answers to then please, by all means join the circle and make it stronger.
If, on the other hand you are more interested in spreading gratuitous slander against hunters, Government managers or myself without proof or backup then expect to get a negative reaction.
A little less personal “ethics” and proseletysing and a little more hard usable information might be good.
Dave, I have the DFO Eastern Arctic assessment docs in pdf as well as some other goodies if you want them feel free to send me an email or go to source. Cheers.
BTW David Have you read McLuhan’s Children: Greenpeace and the media by Stephen Dale?
I think this reviewer possibly has her conclusions a bit wrong but I think you might find the book up your street.
http://www.sources.com/SSR/Docs/SSR42-7-Greenpeace.htm
Mott might find this one interesting, I know I did:
http://www.ubcpress.ca/search/title_book.asp?BookID=4523
“Kiumajut [Talking Back]: Game Management and Inuit Rights 1900-70 examines Inuit relations with the Canadian state, with a particular focus on two interrelated issues. The first is how a deeply flawed set of scientific practices for counting animal populations led policymakers to develop policies and laws intended to curtail the activities of Inuit hunters. Animal management informed by this knowledge became a justification for attempts to educate and, ultimately, to regulate Inuit hunters. The second issue is Inuit responses to the emerging regime of government intervention. The authors look closely at resulting court cases and rulings, as well as Inuit petitions. The activities of the first Inuit community council are also examined in exploring how Inuit began to “talk back” to the Canadian state. ”
IceClass,
I’m NOT a moderator on this blog. Yes , Jennifer has asked me in the past to co-run the blog with her and some other contributors , but I said No , due to much other work , as well as a moderator you can’t make childish comments.
I appreciate all information that is without any slur , smear attacks as you did yesterday re the scientist that read the blog are not very friendly or contribute to any meaningful discussion.
Note , I’m a very open minded , and appreciate all kinds of positions.
And for the third time , I invite IceClass to post a guest post on the subject of either Polar Bears, Wildlife Management in Arctic Canada, or Problems with the NGOs in the North….
Have the Greenpeace activists the same overalls as the gunner on the whaling boat?
http://www.fiskeribladetfiskaren.no/?side=101&lesmer=6970
http://www.fiskeribladetfiskaren.no/?side=101&lesmer=6963
And IceClass , if you want some more in-depth discussions , you better follow Libby’s advice and check the archives. As it is now you have posted a 12 year old!!! book review on Greenpeace.
Seals are OUT , according to Greenpeace today. And they are not especially keen on animals , except whales, maybe polar bears AND they are not an animal rights organisation.
“Give the dead horse a rest Libby.”
I’ll leave the dead animals to you iceclass.
iceclass,
I tend to try to spend as little time as possible thinking about Greenpeace these days but it does sound like an interesting read. Have you got an email address online somewhere? If not, feel free to pick a random post out of the archives at my blog, and post it in there. I’ll get an email notification, and then I’ll remove your post later if you’d rather any AR loonies out there not be able to find it as well 🙂
SS also said recently that they aren’t an AR organization 🙂
David,
The book might be interesting but probably a little out of date as there are a constant stream of new employees and campaigners each year in GP.
Methinks as well that GP was much more powerful a decade ago. The media relations have change a bit as well. What was once new and challenging actions, like chaining oneself to trees, climbing chimneys , direct actions on the high seas might look to the media nowadays as old stunts( this according to the media releases that I have taken part of).
Whales are important for the GPI, not as much for the Norwegians that are focused on pirate fishing.
GMOs are important for the Nordic office and so on…much is political stuff….
David, I think you will find the book interesting. It’s not so much about Greenpeace but about how the mold was set between media and NGOs and conundrum that has left the movement in when they are stuck (perhaps willingly?) representing complicated nature and politics in two dimensional media friendly bursts.
I think you will find the chapters on the early whaling expeditions and in particular Robert Hunter
“And IceClass , if you want some more in-depth discussions , you better follow Libby’s advice and check the archives. As it is now you have posted a 12 year old!!! book review on Greenpeace.”
Ann,it might help if you bothered to understand the gist of the book before shooting your mouth off to score cheap points. The age of the book and hence the review itself is irrelevant. If you can find a more recent review you prefer by all means provide the URL.
“Methinks as well that GP was much more powerful a decade ago. The media relations have change a bit as well. What was once new and challenging actions, like chaining oneself to trees, climbing chimneys , direct actions on the high seas might look to the media nowadays as old stunts( this according to the media releases that I have taken part of).”
So how has the Greenpeace media relationship changed? I still see Greenpeace pulling all the same media stunts they’ve been doing for decades now. In fact, their formula seems to have changed remarkably little. But you’re right, Greenpeace did have more power (or at least unquestioning acceptance) before they blew it with things like the sealing campaigns through to Brent Spar.
Greenpeace simply uses bears and whales and whatever flavour of the month species to raise ca$h. Period!
Greenpeace and SS *are* both animal rights orgs when it suits their needs and conversely seek the legitimising attachments to genuine science or environmentalism when that suits their needs.
They both like to play both sides of the coin to maximise rewvenue.
Why else would Watson call his organisation a “Conservation” society when most of the stunts he pulls are directed at activities where there is no conservation concern…like demonizing Faeroese pilot whalers or Maritimer seal hunters to shake some cash out of shocked urbanites. The pilot whale harvest has been meticulously documented since the 1700s and the whales keep coming back for the Faeroese to eat.
There were only two species of seal on the endangered species list when Watson and GPI got in on the act of demonizing sealers thirty years ago. Neither of them were harp seals.
Today there are six species of seal on the endangered list and still none of them are harp seals!…not to mention the Canadian Maritime herd has steadily grown from 3 to 6 million.
It kinda makes one wonder where the “conservation” issue is don’t it?
Dave, I’m with you on that! I find Greenpeace irrelevant not to mention more and more Eurocentric. I haven’t really wanted much to do with them since my kid brother was dating the daughter of the GPI chief in Amsterdam and I got to see the blinkers up close.
This is still a very relevant (and unique)book today and is a good companion to the thoughts expressed recently in the “Death of Environmentalism Essay by Ted Nordhaus & Michael Schellenberger and then explored a little further in their book “Breakthrough”.
The “old school” NGOs have been very resistant to Schellenberger and Nordhaus’ angle but things seem to be gradually coming around.
My email address is always attached to my posts.
Dave, apologies for the hung line, I meant to say that I thought you would find the chapter on the early days of the anti-whaling campaigns and in particular Robert Hunter’s attitudes to “truth” in reporting.
“I’m NOT a moderator on this blog. ”
Then ask a moderator or Jennifer herself to ban me if you really think I’m that much of a disruptive presence here and be done with it.
“And for the third time , I invite IceClass to post a guest post on the subject of either Polar Bears, Wildlife Management in Arctic Canada, or Problems with the NGOs in the North….”
I am under no obligation to provide any content to this commercial site no matter how many times you make the demand and your reaction to what I have posted to date isn’t exactly conducive to convincing me to take the time from work and studies.
Besides, you’ll be happy to know this is peak hunting season and my favourite time of year.
I’m spending as much time as possible on the sea ice trying to relax and kill a variety of animals (mainly ring seal and maybe a harp for the dogs. I could use a caribou and a few fox furs but we’ll see).
Unusually, there was an extra bear tag left over from this winter and my nephew was the lucky boy to have his name drawn for the tag.
Weather permitting he will be taking off first thing tomorrow to hunt his bear and maybe his father and I will go along for the ride. Too bad my wife is out of town; she’d love to go with the nephew and she has a real thing for fresh bear meat boiled in sea water.
It should be a good day or two.
I have asked many more than three times for you to back up your accusations against Nunavut wildlife managers but so far with no response from you.
If you want to make demands on me to write for this site then at the very least I think it behooves you to at least back up your prior unfounded accusations.
David, as it turns out I’m on the wrong laptop to log into blogspot. 🙁
You can reach me by sending an email to my screen name @gmail.com.
>I’m spending as much time as possible on the sea ice trying to relax and kill a variety of animals (mainly ring seal and maybe a harp for the dogs. I could use a caribou and a few fox furs but we’ll see).
And we want to know about your sicko wanking why Iceman?? Give it a rest with the deliberately provocative comments. It makes you look even more like a loser. And by the way, a word of advice, you are the only one here producing ‘bruised feelings and further whining and conflict making.’ LOL!
I’ve always felt sorry for mentally handicapped people but in Icecretin’s case I hope he gets shot so we are put out of our misery.
” Ann,it might help if you bothered to understand the gist of the book before shooting your mouth off to score cheap points. The age of the book and hence the review itself is irrelevant. If you can find a more recent review you prefer by all means provide the URL.” – IceClass
Why on Earth should I be interested in a book on Greenpeace?
I have been inside in the organisation , attended meetings that any journo would never been allowed to take part of etc.
I also used to know almost every Oceans and Whales Campaigner at the GPI and Nordic offices , from Frode to Bunny McDiarmid( now CEO GP NZ and original crew member of the sunken Rainbow Warrior).
I have already posted an article from a former GP captain here( original article in Independent) .(I have posted the story on the contoverse between the High North Alliance and GPI ( Living in the North)). Their main problem is that now GP has lost much of idealism, is bureaucratic, you must have the go ahead of campaigners etc juts to utter a word if you include GP in your statements etc.
Im my own case , when I started to discuss whales here on the blog , it was always as a private person, not ever on behalf on GP. If I ever had wanted to discuss whales on behalf of GP , I had to first ask John Frizell for permission etc.
I have directed certain criticism towards GP here, but all the staff in the GP Nordic office are my very good friends , and it was not long ago , when they asked about my opinion about the RMS / RMP.
I think as well it is a little bit scary that IceClass is ignorant of what an animals right organisations stands for and claiming that GP is an AR one ( I’m not defending GP here), especially now when he acts like a ” spokesman” for people that have been wrongly treated by AR organisations / NGOs.
1) Members in an AR organisation are vegetarians or vegans. 50% of GP supportes/ staff might be vegetarians but they are NOT this due to animal welfare concerns. They are vegetarians due to ” cows are ruining the planet” , ” meat causes greenhouse emissions” etc.
2) Re whales. GP’s concern about whales are not about cruelty or TTDs. Their concern is about sustainabilty. Frode, the GPI Nordic Whales Campaigner, stated in an interview that whale killing methods had improved a lot etc.
3) GP has other agendas that are as important or even more important than whales, but it’s true that whales and other charismatic animals are also used for fundraising.
Japanese message forum today has news of a report of another arrest in South Korea of illegal whaling operators. Various commenters seem a little bit miffed that Japan conducts it’s whaling in line with international agreements, whereas they see South Korea as getting away with it illegally (well not this time), without a peep out of Sea Shepherd.
I see no report of the incident in the western media yet, so perhaps there is something in it.
David,
Do you have a link for this? Doesn’t matter if it’s in Japanese. Thanks.
On the subject of Sea Shepherd, I absolutely love the delicious Irony of this absolute classic gem concerning the boarding and arrest of the Farley Mowat :
“It’s an absolute outrage,” Mr. Cornelissen said. “How dare they board a foreign vessel in international waters, a Dutch-registered vessel with a Dutch captain? They held the entire crew at gunpoint.”
What goes around comes around Mr.C 🙂
Must admit that one made my day .. hilarious…
Libby:
http://www.chosunonline.com/article/20080417000047
Roughly, arrest warrants for the 45 year old captain of a fishing vessel and one other have been requested on alleged illegal capture of a minke whale and flensing of it on board the vessel and then attempting to sell it. The two accused apparently rode their 9.7 ton gill net fishing vessel out of an Ulsan fishing port on the morning of the 16th, and illegally caught a 5 metre minke whale 10 miles out to sea. They cut the whale up on board, and later police stopped the pair when they were transporting the meat via truck.
George:
I don’t think they are seriously complaining, after all they know that they use violence themselves, but they are probably working on the assumption that some stupid media outlets will happily regurgitate their propaganda.
Thanks v much David.
I have to admit I was floored by SS’s statement regarding being illegally boarded. There was a short piece here with Watson expressing his outrage, all the while oblivious to the fact he looked like a dementia patient (without meaning to sound like I am making fun of people with dementia).
I should add that apparently they caught the whale with a harpoon of some description, not their gill net.
“How has the Greenpeace media relationship changed? I still see Greenpeace pulling all the same media stunts they’ve been doing for decades “- IceClass
I already told you that GP is pulling the same media stunts that they have been doing for decades.
The media ain’t so positive about it anymore , anyway in Sweden . I have seen commments in media on GP actions like ” actions that were refreshening a decade ago , seems like old , tired stunts today ” .
There was also an editorial some days ago , in a big paper in Sweden re Partick Moore, and the editorial stated this was refreshing reading. Partick Moore had been interviewed in Newsweek, and called GP activists ” pop-ecologists”.
Re media in Australia and GP , I see that most Anglo-Saxon media writes that activists saved 551 minke whales in Southern Oceans through direct actions.
Back again to media and GP in Sweden. One commenter wrote , ” it would be good if anti nuclear activists knew what millisievert is ” .
See Newsweek article :http://www.newsweek.com/id/131753?GT1=43002
if you want some newer article than your 12 year old book review on GP
It must also be pointed out that Newsweek writes that Patrick Moore left GP abruptly , but the truth was that he was sacked…
Oops, a clarification here. GP Nordic states: 551 minke whales were KILLED, but about half of the quota was saved.
Note , information re the comment on millisievert, Patrick Moore and Newsweek from GP Nordic’s site.
To IceClass,
As you’re unwilling to follow Libby’s advice and check the archive’s, this article by John Castle, former captain of Rainbow Warrior , shows the dissident within GP:
http://www.ecoearth.info/shared/reader/welcome.aspx?linkid=47205
Good hunting, Iceclass. Aim small, miss small.
I haven’t seen this ( computer problems) but it seems it should be a video from a Norwegian whaling boat :
http://www.op.no/lesernes/filmer/article3464242.ece
The Coastal Party states as well, that it was a defeat for the whalers that the biggest whale meat factory , the Ellingsens, might close down or diminish its activity.
Norwegian animal welfare organisation, Dyrebeskyttelsen, states again , that Norwegian whaling is cruel , as one of five whales will suffer from not dying instantly. 10% of the harpooned whales will live for longer than 10 minutes.
This is against Norwegian animal welfare regulations , according to the NGO. Regulations state ” that killing of an animal must be conducted in a way so there will not be any unnecessary suffering”.
Finally, the NGO said, it’s strange that it is forbidden to bait a living fish in Norway, but it’s allowed to harpoon a whale”.
http://www.dyrebeskyttelsen.no/artikler/2008-12-04_hvalfangst.shtml
So, 10% live more than 10 minutes after harpooning. How long do human accident fatalities remain alive after the accident? Do we ban all cars on the basis of an accidental outcome?
How long after capture do baby sea lions live for after being taken by Orcas?
Would you like us to revisit wjp’s post about the death of a cow in a bog? Ban farms on the basis of bogs?
More common sense from Mott. Let’s not give HIV vaccines to people in Africa – they may suffer in gang violence instead, and what is suffering anyway – as long as it doesn’t affect Mott.
Yeah, baby sea lions and orcas – harp, harp. And Mott, if you recall, wjp, being the humane farmer, would have put the cow out of its misery. That was the whole crux of the discussion idiot – to reduce suffering. Ban stupid Mott, now there’s a humane idea.
No Travis, if your bile was not impairing your already serious retention deficit you would have understood that the context of wjp’s post was to highlight the extent to which nature can deliver some very cruel and drawn out deaths. Do you seriously believe that only domesticated animals get stuck in bogs? You sad plodder.
How long do you think it might take a sick whale to die after the first attack by sharks or a pod of Orcas?
The facts are unavoidable that many deaths of large marine animals take a lot longer than 10 minutes and involve a lot more trauma than a harpoon.
And quite frankly, Norwegian Animal Welfare is hardly a credible source of data on this issue. This 1 in 5 ratio has all the stench of something that has been plucked from the bum of some shonky Greenponce activist? Indeed, what proportion of whale kills even took place in their presence? And how did they distinguish between the responses of a living animal and the twitches (death rattle) of those that were already brain dead.
Once again, Ann dishes up unsubstantiated crap masquerading as information.
Travis obviously believes that farmers always find bogged cows within 10 minutes of getting stuck. So the only bog on 5000 hectares is right under his nose in the front paddock. And the only place they ever fall and break a leg is in the front paddock, and they only come to grief during working hours. And the Dingos only chase cattle into places where they will break a leg in the front paddock, during working hours.
And lambs taken by foxes die within 10 minutes, just like the ones that get taken by eagles. They never writhe, pierced by tallons, all the way back to the nest, do they?
And none of this ever takes place in nature, in national parks, oh no, no, no.
You are a joke, Travis.
Nuttus Mottus,
” Ifølge opplysninger fra myndighetenes egne forskere, kommer ikke 20 prosent av vågehvalene til å dø momentant. Data som Norge har rapportert til den Internasjonale hvalfangstkommisjonen (IWC) viser at det kan ta fra flere minutter opptil en time før disse hvalene dør”
This is Norwegian. Roughly translated: ” According to information from the authorities own scientists , will not 20% of the minke whales die instantly. Information that Norwegian scientists have submitted to the IWC, shows that it might take many minutes or up to one hour for these whales to die.
And surprise , surprise Motty, Greenpeace doesn’t think whale killing methods or TTD s in Norwegian whaling are too bad , this in contrast to an animal welfare organisation.
And according to the organisation , the whalers do try to kill the whales humanely, but rough seas and poor visibily make this difficult. Note , the minke whale is visible partly for about 3 sek, so everyone can imagine how difficult it is to get a clean shot.
Ah Mott. Poor little ‘man’. Yes, I seriously think only domesticated animals get stuck in bogs. LOL!!! Once again a point gets lost on you Mott. Tsk. But that’s ok, we’ll keep dredging up orcas killing poor cute seals and dolphins coz that’s natural, and a grenade tipped harpoon is…natural too..!!! The whole point of canned hunting escaped you, but you are continuing to pluck at tired strings, and out of tune with what is going on!
Alex! Did he take his combantrin again and you managed to escape? Lucky little worm you.
TTDs have been discussed in pretty reasonable detail previously. But once again Mott says life is cruel and we should be easing animal suffering when it comes to things like canned hunting, but when it comes to whaling – kaboom! Blow ’em out of the water and make sure they die a slow miserable death. Joke? You betcha worm boy.
Travis just can’t comprehend that an exploding bullet in the brain will produce a quicker death than a simple bullet or harpoon. The explosive provides a much larger margin for error. And a lot faster death than an Orca trying to rip out a whales tongue. Get real bozo.
And again we must ask Ann to clarify. Where did the ten minutes time frame come from? The quote you gave only made mention of “up to an hour”, it did not link the 1 in 5 with the ten minutes.
And again we must ask, how did they distinguish between the movements of live animals and the twitching of dead ones?
And well me should ask, what proportion of the animals that were not killed instantly and took up to 10 minutes to die were unconscious during that time?
There is absolutely no justification for assuming that an unconscious animal taking 10 minuted to die has undergone any suffering at all. The next most probable outcome, after instant death, from an explosive charge in the vicinity of the brain, is unconsciousness. Remaining conscious for even part of that time, let alone right up to the point of death, would be a very distant third.
So how about you give us the whole story, Ann, instead of these sleazy little snippets that seriously mislead?
“I år har hvalfangerne fått en kvote som teller 1052 vågehval. Ifølge Stortingsmelding nr. 27 om norsk sjøpattedyrpolitikk har norske fangstmetoder forbedret seg over tid, men fortsatt risikerer vågehvalene en smertefull død.”
Roughly translated : This year the quota is set to 1052 minke whales. According to report no 27 from the Parliament re Norwegian marine mammal policy , has Norwegian whale killing methods improved during a period , but still the minkes are in the risk zone from dying a painful death.
Ian,
We’ve covered this issue in previous posts.
Eg., David wrote:
“They developed the original penthrite grenade which was a huge improvement on previous methods employed (by those who today criticise the hell out of whaling nations), by the mid 1990’s they had improved the instantaneous death rate (IDR) to just under 30%, and by the time they introduced an “improved” penthrite grenade in the 2002 JARPA season the IDR had improved to over 50%, and the TTD down.”
More at:-
http://www.jennifermarohasy.com/blog/archives/002101.html
“I haven’t seen this ( computer problems) but it seems it should be a video from a Norwegian whaling boat :
http://www.op.no/lesernes/filmer/article3464242.ece“
Ann, this is Norwegian whaling in the fifties/early sixties. Historic films from whaling operations in the Antarctic.
Hi Laila,
Thanks for the clarification. Btw , are you the Laila, the new Secretary of the High North Alliance?
If so , I welcome you to participate here in our whales discussions circle.
Yes, that’s me.
A minke whale landed in Korea today:
http://imgnews.naver.com/image/001/2008/04/22/PYH2008042205680005300_P2.jpg
This time there were no signs of “foul play” (if whaling could be described as such?), and it was sold off for 34,500,000 sk won (35,000+ AUD).
Original (if you can read it, I can’t):
http://news.naver.com/main/read.nhn?mode=LSD&mid=sec&sid1=102&oid=001&aid=0002056320
Thanks David.
There are some whaling videos from Iceland and Norway here on youTube: