The UK Government’s former chief scientific adviser has accused green activists of putting the fight against climate change at risk by wanting to take society back to the 17th century.
He said: “There is a suspicion, and I have that suspicion myself, that a large number of people who label themselves ‘green’ are actually keen to take us back to the 18th or even the 17th century.
Sir David’s comments were made in an interview in The Guardian.
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
But at least it isn’t as far back as many of the browns would have us go.
The article you refer to cites Sir David as the author of the risk assessment that climate change is a greater threat than terrorism.
He wasn’t this is the original a 2002 submission to a United Nations Environment and Development report commissioned by the UK Gov.
http://www.mp2.worldfriend.com/sustainable_development_forum.htm
“”There is a suspicion, and I have that suspicion myself, that a large number of people who label themselves ‘green’ are actually keen to take us back to the 18th or even the 17th century.”
When you have any evidence, get back to us.
Mother nature’s climate change is more powerful than man-made terrorism, although a nuclear bomb would come a close second. Without fossil fuels, we would still be in a 17th century type world.
Technology will eventually allow us to emerge from the oil/gas/coal age – we didn’t emerge from the stone age because we ran out of stone, but because we found something better.
This story relates to an interview about King’s new book, which will no doubt be controversial to those on both sides of the argument:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jan/12/climatechange.carbonemissions
King, 68, is credited with first convincing Tony Blair of the overwhelming importance of climate change, but it’s entirely in character that he now thinks some parts of the green movement are in danger of going too far. “The risk is that people feel the problem is being so overstated that it simply can’t be true,” he says. His book, The Hot Topic, co-written with the science journalist Gabrielle Walker, advises readers: “Don’t be ‘greener-than-thou’: the evidence suggests that making people feel guilty makes them less likely to act, not more.” The book is subtitled “How to tackle global warming and still keep the lights on.” It is a sort of passionate call for judiciousness: an attempt to acknowledge the extent of the crisis, which King once argued was a bigger threat than terrorism, while keeping it within the realms of the imaginable – a problem to which we might all address ourselves, instead of seizing up in a paralysis of despair.
“There is a suspicion, and I have that suspicion myself, that a large number of people who label themselves ‘green’ are actually keen to take us back to the 18th or even the 17th century. [Their argument is] ‘Let’s get away from all the technological gizmos and developments of the 20th century’,” he says. “And I think that is utter hopelessness … What I’m looking for is technological solutions to a technologically driven problem, so the last thing we must do is eschew technology.”
“we didn’t emerge from the stone age because we ran out of stone, but because we found something better.”
I just found my next T-shirt!!
Thanks.
🙂
When the Soviet Union and communism collapsed, members of the Communist Party in the west had to find a new way to attack capitalism, and they found the route by claiming to be environmentalists and global warming alarmists. There’s the evidence to support his suspicions. The same bunch killed nuclear energy production in the U.S.
Woody – “When the Soviet Union and communism collapsed, members of the Communist Party in the west had to find a new way to attack capitalism, and they found the route by claiming to be environmentalists and global warming alarmists”
Clever of the Communists to arrange for global CO2 to rise just to attack capitalism. Really makes it convincing.
Better check under your bed.
Paul – “Technology will eventually allow us to emerge from the oil/gas/coal age – we didn’t emerge from the stone age because we ran out of stone, but because we found something better.”
Apart from the fact that stones are not an energy source but a material we will emerge from fossil fuels to a one powered by the sun rather than stored sunlight.
Then we can start to live on our income rather than our savings.
Sir David King is the same person who said that the Indonesian tsunami was caused by global warming.
Perhaps Paul can come up with a recipe; how each one of us can be sustainably self sufficient with out referring to earlier centuries however the budget must include all life.
Knowledge today is largely about human growth. Who of us has tried to be low impact?
Transporting water is the first challenge. Turning a log into a wheel or a boat naturally follows weaving with straw, Spinning with fibre comes later.
Greed drives us forward.
‘Woody – “When the Soviet Union and communism collapsed, members of the Communist Party in the west had to find a new way to attack capitalism, and they found the route by claiming to be environmentalists and global warming alarmists”
Clever of the Communists to arrange for global CO2 to rise just to attack capitalism. Really makes it convincing.’
Nice bit of ‘verballing’ there Ender and, as usual, ‘petitio principii’.
You’d qualify for admission to some infamous police forces.
Henry has received my latest revison of the Hissink File, and it might get posted next day or so.
Good to see the usual suspects blathering – Marc Morano has an excellent retort to the NYT as reported by John Ray.
Game, set and Match but you do have to admire them – as that classic comment made in Gladiator, “people should know when they are conqured”.
Loius, the list is a joke.
Has he come back to us with :-
* People who he said had PhDs but don’t.
* People who demanded to be removed from the list.
* People who are not at all prominent scientists of any description.
* People who are scientists but not actually qualified to give an informed opinion.
* Duplicates.
So far I have not heard one word on these matters from him, although he has brought out revised lists. These revisions, however, only ever mention adding more names, nothing about his errors/falsehoods/misrepresentations.
Let’s not confuse ‘greed’ with self-improvement. If anyone wants to adopt 17th century living standards, carry on – let us know how you get on -no emial then – so write us a letter with your quill pen.
chrisgo – “Nice bit of ‘verballing’ there Ender and, as usual, ‘petitio principii’.
You’d qualify for admission to some infamous police forces.”
Definition of verballing:
“verb (verbals, verballing, verballed)
1. (context, transitive, Australia) To fabricate a confession
1.
* 1982, John A. Andrews, Human Rights in Criminal Procedure: A Comparative Study, ISBN 9024725526, BRILL, page 128
*
* : “The problem of ‘verballing’ is unlikely to disappear, whatever the legal status of the person detained.”
*
* 2001, Chris Cunneen, Conflict, Politics and Crime: Aboriginal Communities and the Police, ISBN 1864487194, Allen & Unwin, page 116
*
* : “Condren had always claimed that he was assaulted and verballed by police over the murder he had supposedly confessed to committing.”
*
* 2004, Jeremy Gans & Andrew Palmer, Australian Principles of Evidence, ISBN 1876905123, Routledge Cavendish, page 504
*
* : “Moreover, given the risk of verballing, it is by no means apparent that it is in the interests of justice that the prosecution have the benefit of admissions that are made on occasions when recordings are impracticable.”
I don’t see where I extracted a confession from Woody here. I simply used a ridiculous example to show how equally ridiculous his redneck notion is that environmentalists and the environmental movement is communist. Communism has done just as much damage to the environment, if not more, than capitalism. I don’t see the connection. Pure capitalism without a measure of socialism is just as unworkable as pure communism without a measure of capitalism. I would not like to live in either extreme which makes me happy that I live in Australia where there is a healthy blend of the two.
So don’t call me a communist just because I want to protect the environment. BTW the radical tightening of police powers has mostly been done by democratic capitalist countries in the contrived war on terror. Democratic people seem to be the fastest to give away their freedoms without a fight or protest almost as fast as the communist people that never had them.
Does anybody know Sir Dave’s second initial? I want to Google Scholar his publications, to see why he is famous.
P.S. As a green, I don’t want to go back to the 17th century – I would rather go back to the Middle Ages, a time of intellectual ferment. Universities then taught grammar, logic, and rhetoric – the tripos of the brain.
Paul: On “greed and self employment” I consider myself a bit of an expert in undoing a sales pitch and self promotion. Also anyone on pure commission won’t get far with me.
Promoting someone’s spin is not self employment either. Lets get down to biz and see who can actually make a wheel or a decent carving knife today before we look backwards.
Long distant communication started with smoke signals, not smoke screens. King’s arguments are about maintaining the pace of modern developments and finding more power.
The reality of the top end of society staying home for a change is a bit too hard to swallow. Folks in London now have to share the sky with people from Shanghai but King makes no concessions.
Face to face arguments between the masses please.
Green Davey – Sir David King is a Colloid Chemist:
http://www.ch.cam.ac.uk/staff/dak.html
Thanks Paul.
Er … being a colloid chemist, what does he know about climate and nuclear energy? Is he a friend of Tony Brown and Gordon Blair?
He doesn’t know much about climate change, other than how to repeat climate alarmism. Hopefully, he knows more about nucler energy.
Ender, the communists didn’t need to arrange for CO2 increases. They just needed to create hysteria over bad science. See this article from today.
“If you need any more proof that the concept of Global Warming is less ‘science’ and is more just a replacement for the kind of failed concepts of communism and socialism that is increasingly being rejected by the world, two recent stories helps clarify the point. These same stories also highlight how the media facilitate the lies that is globaloney. ….http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/01/15/global-warmings-communist-underpinnings ”
“Greed drives us forward.”
No Gavin; haven’t you understood yet?
It is *hope* that drives us forward.
I can’t believe the ignorance – “who is David King?” He is the guy credited with educating Tony Blair about climate change and the threat it poses – and if you doubt the threat it poses you’ve got your head in the sand. Even if it’s got nothinmg to do with human CO2 emmissions, something dramatic is happening which is causing what seems to be unprecedented rates of change in climate and the natural world.
I hope you are really doing by His Grace. I’m Prince,20yrs and I’m from Ghana. You know i saw your profile @ world friends.com so i took the delight to write you. I will like to be your friend if you wouldn’t mind. You know as Christian I will love to share and discuss more Christian ideas with you. It’s really a great pleasure to write to someone special like you. You know it’s always nice to have you near and to enjoy your company and your loyalty; it’s important to have the friendship and affection of someone with whom we can share our joys and sorrows, and discuss our problems without fear or reservations. To be a friend is to be able to enjoy the best things the other person has to offer, to recognize their faults but to know they are bearable and, on the other hand, to be a friend is to offer our virtues with all the generosity in the world and to live without masks or farces to hide our faults, habits or differences. Maybe I can’t really express that real meaning of friendship, but i know it’s good to know that there’s someone supporting us, even if sometimes they don’t fully agree with what we are thinking or doing and they don’t hesitate to show their point of view. That’s what true friends are like, because they know that a different opinion will not change a deep feeling of mutual and sincere trust. May Christ shine in everything you do, with a prayer that you’ll always be safe, not only today, but always. Stay Blessed and i hope to hear from you soon.
Yours faithfully
PRINCE