“The Japan Whaling Association today congratulated the All Japan Seamen’s Union (AJSU) in their support for the safety of martime workers at sea by protesting the arrival of Greenpeace vessel Esperanza and preventing it from docking in Tokyo harbour.
That’s according to a media release from the Japan Whaling Association. The media release continues:
“Over years, Greenpeace has committed illegal and dangerous activities at sea, including in the Southern Ocean against Japan’s Antarctic research program. Their violent actions have consequences and Greenpeace is now experiencing one of those consequences,” the President of the Japan Whaling Association, Keiichi Nakajima said today.
Greenpeace is an eco-terrorist organization who last year illegally used the bow of the Arctic Sunrise to ram the Japanese research vessel Nisshin Maru midway along the starboard side. As a result of direct contact with the ultra-violent Sea Shepherd group, Greenpeace were able to find the Antarctic fleet this year. Not only did Sea Shepherd deliberately ram the Kaiko Maru this year as well, they also threw acid at Japanese sailors and shattered glass bottles on the Nisshin Maru deck, resulting in injuries to two Japanese crew.
“Greenpeace actions over the years have put Japanese sailors’ lives at risk and the AJSU has sent a clear message to the world that they can’t support such violence. You cannot conduct close quarters harassment on the high seas, ram vessels and prevent others from going about their lawful work and claim it is non-violent activity,” Mr Nakajima said.
Greenpeace Japan in the past has been embarrassed by the organization’s responses to Japan’s research whaling. In a handwritten faxed letter intimidating the skipper of the Nisshin Maru which made an emergency call to Noumea after a fire in 1998, Greenpeace wrote:
“To the vessel’s captain: We have fastened tightly the propeller of this vessel with chains. Our diver is now in the water. You cannot start the ship’s engine. Signed: GREENPEACE ”
Embarassed by the fax, the then Secretary of Greenpeace Japan, Sanae Shida, wrote to the skipper saying, “I hereby profoundly apologize for a handwritten letter of inappropriate content addressed to the vessel’s captain that was sent by Greenpeace today.”
“We applaud the seamen’s union and encourage others around the world to protect maritime workers’ safety by condemning dangerous actions by Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd and other eco-terrorist organizations,” Mr Nakajima said.” [End of media release]
Strong words from the Japanese.
So is Greenpeace an eco-terrorist organisation?
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
>So is Greenpeace an eco-terrorist organisation?
What is your definition of an ‘eco-terrorist’ Jennifer?
Perhaps you should spend more time reading your own blog if you are unaware of what responses you will get. This issue was discussed the last time whaling was brought up here. And the time before that, and the time before that too….
I had the gut feeling after the GP press release some weeks ago that they would never be welcome in Japan to make a Japanese anti whaling campaign.
So nothing surprising! I don’t know if it was the usual GP propaganda when they made the statement that they would invite the ICR and officials from the whaling industry to visit the Esperanza. They sure have a vivid fantasy.
Re Greenpeace’s activities this year in the SOS , it was really interesting to see what Sea Shepherd said about their actions:
“They spent 10 days pretending to be on alert to tow the Nisshin Maru out of the Whale Sanctuary. In fact there were five other Japanese ships down there to assist the Nisshin Maru so the Greenpeace presence was just posturing for headlines.”
inciteful slanderous claim of eco-terrorism, deserves a handwritten note and a mouth washed out with soap
The Japanese should let them in and add the crew to the landfill reclamation of Tokyo bay.
Greenpeace need their eco-terrorism licence revoked as they didn’t sink the fleet. Poor effort.
So they have to settle with eco-pests, eco-annoyances, eco-irritants.
They need to lift their game. Osama would not have been happy if they were his students.
It’s all good theatre isn’t it?
‘So is Greenpeace an eco-terrorist organisation?’
Of course they are, they commit criminal acts in the name of the environment.
No, Greenpeace is not an eco-terrorist organization.
Terrorists operate in a cell structure.
Greenpeace is, on the other hand, an eco-fascist organization. Very open, very political, and integrated equally into governmental and commercial operations. It breaks the law solely to advance political and financial interests.
The actual eco-terrorists are Greenpeace spin-off units like the Midnight Gardeners, Earth Liberation Front and Sea Shepherd.
Still waiting for Jennifer’s definition of an ‘eco-terrorist’.
Travis,
Jennifer posed the *question* of whether Greenpeace is an eco-terrorist group. If she had decided on the definition, she wouldn’t need to pose the question.
So apparently, you’re clueless.
Could anybody seriously doubt they are eco terrorists if what is written in the ‘post’ is true?
Toby, it’s a *press release* by the All Japan Seamen’s Union. Are you as unable to meet the question as poor Travis?
Schiller,
It is a valid question.
Is Greenpeace a terrorist organisation?
Hmmm… but they sure commit unlawful and criminal acts.
For example. Intruding into ” no trespass ” areas and offices, dumping tons of shit in mentioned buildings and really making people angry and upset , and the next minute they are talking about to have a dialogue with the same people!!!
Very immature and meaningsless….and bordering to terrorism…
They are a bunch of substance abused narcissistic nutters who seek headlines as paliative treatment for their cognitive dysfunction.
The whole point of this thread is what? For the usual to throw abuse at Greenpeace, the usual to tell more about themselves than the issue and for another thread to be posted which looks like productivity is taking place.
So why are you posting on this thread Travis?
Schiller, I know it is a press release. It does not make my question invalid. If the ‘post’/ press release is true, could anybody doubt they are eco terrorists?
Toby, Travis,
I just wanted to point out to you two fun-lovin’ wild-eyed boys that you’re so busy flinging the poo at the question that you haven’t bothered trying to answer it. Repeating the question is, to coin a phrase, redundant.
Now you two nice boys go and wash your hands after all that poo flinging, and come back and answer the question.
Travis,
I sincerely is looking for productivity, but honestly IMO these high seas confrontations are meaningsless…. FYI, one of Greenpeace’s most high profile whale’s campaigners told me that it is all about fundraising ( and no, I’m not going to write his name here as it could mean trouble).
I can understand that you Aussies want to protect your whales, but this is not the solution…
Re the dialogue. Does GP really believe that the Japanese officials want a dialogue after the clashes? Hardly….
GP is talking this dialogue rant because they used that tactics in Norway and Iceland, but remember it was only after they stopped the direct actions against the whalers…
Schiller, it seems to me that Jen is asking do we believe Greenpeace are ‘eco terrorists’. My reply is how could anybody think otherwise based on the info provided. If thats not clear enough, then yes they are. Any organisation that deliberatly breaks laws and endagers others as frequently as greenpeace should lose all charitable status (as has happened in a number of countries) and its members who flaunt the rules/laws, should be locked up and the organisation fined like any other member of society would be. Is that what you were looking for?
Of course Ian reckons unjust laws must be resisted and has even implied civil disobedience is warranted.
And of course through many social issues – racial and sexual discrimination – right of suffrage – VietNam moratoriums etc acts of ill will have been undertaken to change unjust, unfair, inequitable or just bloody wrong laws/situations.
Are they terrorists or serial pests – frankly the comparison with people blowing themselves and others up, hijacking aircraft or taking prisoners hostage etc is piddly. Has GP beheaded anyone lately.
Perhaps if GP sub-contract to the Rainbow Warrrior scuttling mob, the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure (DGSE), you might be able to use the term terrorist.
Otherwise it’s merely a matter of who says what.
But it’s all good theatre for the cause – which ever side you’re on !
>So why are you posting on this thread Travis?
To start the fun and games with you dear David :)!
Schiller, all you point out is you’re a nutter. As I mentioned earlier, the issue has been debated to death on other threads. Everyone has their own definition of terrorist or ‘eco-terrorist’. It is highly subjective and serves no purpose but to sling that poo you seem to have a fascination with. There are better ways of addressing a question so that fresh answers may be served rather than pap (recycled koala poo Schiller). It would mean that all of us could use some grey matter, and I am being kind to everyone here by including ‘all’!
So now we have the whole spectrum here…
From Greenpeace’s own statement that they are a peace organsiation, engaged only in peaceful protests a la Gandhi, Martin Luther King and Rosa Parker to the Japanese Whalers Union’s statement that they are a kind of a terrorist cell.
A bit off topic, but on Sunday starts the Norwegian whaling season so we can debate whaling a bit more! LOL!
Re Norwegian whaling opponents are running a bit out of arguments but one issue is the animal welfare topic.
According to papers that the Norwegians have submitted to the IWC, 20% of the whales don’t die instantanously, but killing methods have improved.
Norwegian Marine Research Institute stated as well that whaling in the North Atlantic is sustainable. Population about 184 000 minkes.
Another news, a pod of killer whales scared many thousands of salmons to death in a Norwegian fish farm….
I was an employee of ANSTO at Lucas Heights just before Christmas in 2001 when Greenpeace invaded the site as part of a media stunt.
As well as achieving fantastic publicity with a media enourage well in tow, Greenpeace prevented the delivery of isotopes that day, affecting hundreds of Australians needing radiopharmaceuticals for a range of diagnostic and treatment appplications.
One unfortunate man in Perth by the name of Patrick Corbett, who was dying of bone cancer, was denied a dose of Quadramet which is used for pain relief, and would have improved his quality of life during his final Christmas
ANSTO staff were sickened and traumatised by the consequences of Greenpeace’s actions. Greenpeace have never apologised or taken any responsibility or shown the slightest sign of giving a rat’s arse.
To answer your question: Yes, Greenpeace are eco-terrorists, and their tax free status should be removed.
So that means anytime there’s a strike anywhere or truckie’s blockade or the like which might cause similar outcomes they’re terrorists too?
Is it true the protesters walked past the front gate exposing the core issue of site security? Did they actually stop anything at the site or prevent delivery trucks?
Greenpeace are currently whining in the Japanese media about the Esperanza not being allowed into the port because of the JSU.
They are suggesting that the cause of their being barred was JSU telling their agent that Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd are the same eco-terrorist organization. Apparently Greenpeace don’t think the ramming incident in which Greenpeace was involved last year, nor the incident when Greenpeace activists chained up the Nisshin Maru’s propeller in 1998 after the first fire accident are relevant. I imagine the JSU feels otherwise, and they probably had an easy time convincing Greenpeace’s agent of this as well.
Greenpeace are also suggesting that their freedom of speech is being denied, however…
http://www.janjan.jp/world/0703/0703280556/img/photo126627.jpg
(from http://www.janjan.jp/world/0703/0703280556/1.php)
As seen in the picture above, Karli (who was in the Southern Ocean a few weeks ago) and Junichi from Greenpeace were standing right outside the JSU HQ in downtown Tokyo yesterday, and today Greenpeace held an “urgent” press conference in Otemachi Sankei Plaza.
They don’t seem to have any problems as far as their freedom of speech goes, but they sure have got their PR spin-merchants working hard.
Earlier this year, Greenpeace had a meeting lined up with a NZ government minister, but on the very same day they pulled off an illegal publicity stunt, and subsequently lost their opportunity for dialog because of it.
Greenpeace just don’t seem to realize that in order to get out of their hole they have to stop digging. How much shame has to be heaped upon them before they recognize the errors of their ways?
Truckies would not blockade an organisation that produces medical supplies – many may not have made it to year 9, but they are not that stupid.
The protesters walked past the front gate of the outer perimeter which was fairly trivial since it is nowhere near the reactor.
However it did cause chaos with staff coming to work and security had to lock the place down to make sure there were not more serious incursions.
Staff were unable to go to work as a direct result of Greenpeace’s actions, so the radiopharmaceuticals could not be processed and the deliveries could not be made.
Either no-one from Greenpeace ever thought this might be a consequence or they didn’t care – probably a bit of both.
I have nothing but disgust for Greenpeace.
Truckies have stopped their share of highways in their time. So it was actually ANSTO’s decision to lock the place down and stop work. Lucky it wasn’t Osama come calling.
Great theatre David – but hardly believable.
And it was actually Greenpeace’s decision to cause the lock down.
An inability to understand the likely consequences of actions, coupled with a refusal to take responsibility for those actions are characteristics of the stupid and the callous.
What don’t you believe, Luke?
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/T349133.htm
Karli Thomas of Greenpeace is on the ground in Tokyo, having her photo taken outside the JSU headquarters, and holding press
conferences at Otemachi Sankei Plaza…
… and complaining that Greenpeace is being denied it’s right to free speech?
If she hopes to start a debate with the Japanese, all she needs to do is use her press conferences to exercise her free speech, rather than use her press conferences to complain that Greenpeace’s free speech is being denied.
I hope someone suggests to them that there are true conservation causes out there which could benefit from some extra publicity – complaining about having a ship denied entry seems to be aimed at generating publicity for Greenpeace rather than conservation.
I know it’s all hard to believe, but that’s why Greenpeace have been so successful in deceiving so many.
Greg, thanks for posting your experience with this organization…
Unbelievable… even the CAPTAIN of the Esperanza is already on the ground in Tokyo.
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20070329p2a00m0na031000c.html
Don’t Greenpeace see how transparent they are? Obviously not – they are invisible!!!
What don’t I believe – anything that you say David. But keep it up – it’s good entertainment.
The most disturbing aspect of the Lucas Heights invasion by Greenpeace is that a number of ANSTO employees, including me, were upset about it, even though we were not responsible. We think about the victims and remember their names.
However Greenpeace representatives – who really were responsible – seriously don’t seem to care. You may find evidence of this on this thread. It’s the kind of lack of empathy you would expect from someone like a terrorist.
My only quibble with the label “eco-terrorists” for Greenpeace is that I’m not sure about the “eco” part.
If they were seriously concerned about biodiversity rather than publicity, they would have demonstrated, and would be demonstrating, concern for genuinely endangered species such as Chinese river dolphins.
You don’t believe anything that I say, Luke, even when I post links showing pictures of both Karli Thomas and Frank Kemp on the ground in Tokyo, while at the same time they are claiming that barring the entry of the Esperanza into port amounts to denying their free speech?
If so – you’re an idiot 🙂
Greg,
The Western Pacific Gray whale – only around 120 – is bordering extinction, yet Greenpeace is trying to enter Tokyo to complain about Antarctic whaling of the world’s most abundant baleen whale species.
I can’t imagine how it must have been for you, but I’m disgusted with this organization without ever having been a direct victim of their behaviour.
Greenpeace did a survey and awareness-raising campaign in South Korea in 2005 for the Western Gray Whale.
A survey? Woo hoo.
Yes Greg, I was the PI on it.
Given Greenpeace’s outstanding survey work, I guess that points to the possibility that they are “eco-terrorists”, rather than just plain terrorists.
Greg, I don’t know you, nor wish to. If you have an issue with Greenpeace and what happened at Lucas Heights, do something constructive and proactive about it rather than adding to the list of insults and personal smears people contribute to this site.
Libby
My proactive work involves raising some kind of awareness right here and now so that it never happens again.
Let’s make one thing clear. Nobody I have engaged here is a victim:
The victim’s name was Patrick Corbett. He was dying of bone cancer. There were others.
If I can get someone from Greenpeace to think about that for one moment, then it really is constructive.
Is it normal that ANSTO employees personally know those that radio-pharmaceuticals are dispatched to.
I am not sure anyone from Greenpeace reads this blog Greg, and bringing my survey work into question is not going to achieve your goal.
I know his name because it was reported – very sparingly – in the media. I know from my conversations when I was at ANSTO that there were many others but I do not have their names.
Interesting that:
a) Luke seems to think that a confidentiality issue is more important than the fact that a dying man was denied pain relief and
b) that Libby is worried about the reputation of her surveying skills.
Quick recap chaps – the victims name is not Libby or Luke, it is Patrick Corbett.
Greg, I have been dealing with your responses to me, not the issue of Patrick Corbett. I am not going to comment on the issue of Partick Corbett, as I do not have enough information to do so. Initially I responded regarding the Western Gray Whale, until you brought Greenpeace’s surveys into question. If you can’t follow that obvious chain of events, I am sorry, and you have indeed succumbed to the pettiness this blog attracts.
Top notch survey, Libby, well done.
Case in point Greg.
Libby
I apologise for dragging you into this discussion, but if Greenpeace contributed more to your kind of work and a bit less to blocking delivery of medicine to cancer patients I would be more sympathetic.
Greg I feel for anyone who suffered as you described but your explanation has been pretty flimsy up to now (consisting of they walked past the gate so we locked everything that down just in case) and then suddenly WAMMO you take it upon yourself to abuse the confidential information to which you were privy during your employment and bandy the poor chap’s name around to support a point. How would his family feel about that if he has survivors? Do they agree with your position and victim theory? It matters not if he got a scant press mention in the past, you’ve bandied his name now to back your own argument and Jennifer should delete his name.
The information was obtained from the media, was divulged freely by family members, and is still on the internet.
I don’t quite understand – did this demonstration go on for weeks. Why was not his medicine dispatched the next day. Did anyone offer to stay back to produce it.
Libby and Greg,
Some people in Greenpeace read this blog, however as far as I understand they are not going to contribute anything to the discussions, some of them are afraid of being harrassed, but methink that is exaggerated. As it has turned out , anti whaling people have harrassed more people than the prowhaling ones….
Anyway as I see it, if people post anti Greenpeace stuff, it should be a very good opportunity for them to bring their case to the public and make their points…
It is a complicated process involving working with the cycles of the reactor and could not be done before Christmas.
Due to short half lives of radiopharmaceuticals, people in distant locations were worst effected.
Greenpeace might have found this out had they asked some sensible questions when they toured the facility.
Greg,
Unfortunately the ANSTO event is not current, but did you contact any health organisations or even a union at the time? Have you had any dialogue with Greenpeace, and do you think it is worthwhile bringing it up again with them directly? I am trying to suggest something practical you can do now, as I don’t believe posting comments here is going to help you much or indeed Mr Corbette, his family or future individuals.
Ann,
I can see no reason why you think the harrassment issue may be an exaggeration. It works both ways.
Libby,
Both you and me have connections with Greenpeace, and honestly I don’t know a single Greenpeacer that has received hate mails from prowhaling guys.
On the other hand , I know from Norway, it used to be impossible to mention the whaling boats names in the media etc. due to all hate mails that the crew received and the physical threat to the whaling boats… I must admit that has changed now since the 90’s .
Libby
It was difficult at the time because it did not fit my role as an employee and because Greenpeace were facing a court case for trespass. I raised it once with a Greenpeace rep who denied any responsibility – something along the lines of what we have seen here.
I have a basic problem in that as a result of this experience I have no trust in Greenpeace or its representatives and feel that any contact would be a waste of time.
It seems everyone is a terrorist nowadays, the term has been devalued.
To answer Jennifer’s question – I believe Greenpeace are entitled to do what they do. I support them. I believe Sea Shepherd are as well. Here’s why – I don’t think whales should be commercially killed. Full-stop. Simply because they are an integral part of their food-chain and eco-system, and are therefore part of a vast, living carbon-sink. A food-chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link (don’t know how true this last statement is, but I am after rhetorical effect. It survives the common sense test.)
Oh, and my final point is that we need all the carbon-sinking we can get.
Doesn’t Tokyo get free speech too?
Isn’t blocking Greenpeace free speech?
Greenpeace gets to block anything it wants.
Free speech right back! Greenpeacers gotta like it.
Wadard,
Greenpeace are welcome to do whatever they please.
The caveat to this is that they must also take responsibility for the consequences. The people of Japan have no obligation to allow the Greenpeace obstruction vehicle in to their port if they don’t want to.
Also, are you really sure that it is “common sense” that killing even, say, a single common minke whale in say, the coastal waters of Norway or Iceland, and then selling the product to Japan is something that needs to be stopped at all costs – even if it means putting human life at risk?
I would suggest that the opposite is the case.
Google news is showing me about 40 stories in the western media in relation to Greenpeace’s demands to have their boat permitted into Tokyo.
Google news is also showing me 4 stories in Japanese language about the story, and only one of them is NOT coming from Greenpeace Japan’s web page (it’s the one with the picture of Karli from “Japan Alternative News for Justices And New Cultures” that I posted earlier).
If we judge by the effectiveness of their PR stunt, this latest one appears to be directed entirely at Greenpeace’s western support base.
Of course, perhaps the nasty Japanese media is against the Greenpeace angels, and prohibiting their free speech as well 😉
Since Greenpeace regularly blocks people from doing what they do for a living, it’s time that others blockade Greenpeace from what it does for its living.
Greenpeace would be unhappy about such fairness.
The ANSTO action Greg mentions seems to have blame on a number of fronts. Greenpeace should think through the likely consequences of their actions. I don’t think anyone here is denying that. If it is the same demonstration I am thinking of, then the action at ANSTO took place when the site was in the media and even the public was expecting there could be demonstrations. ANSTO and the police should have been prepared for such actions. Greenpeace don’t carry around rocket launchers. Their actions in this country are pretty predictable: they dress up, they male a lot of noise, they mill around, they may chain themselves to something or they may even scale a tall object and unfurl a banner. Again, ANSTO and the police should have been prepared. In the days of post 9/11 the NSW police and ANSTO should have plans in case for terrorist attacks and protests. Re the pharmaceuticals, I would have thought that ANSTO’s productivity would have been taken into account in the event of a demonstration or disruption.. Therefore, means to get important materials out of or into the facility should be accomodated for. I do not understand why the police could not have pushed back any protestors to allow vehicles access.
I am not condoning Greenpeace’s actions here, and obviously Greg has knowledge of what took place. It just seems that in this day and age of contingency plans and security, a large facility such as ANSTO, who has been subject to demonstration before, would have had other ways of dispatching life-saving materials and that what happened to those who needed the drugs could have been prevented. Hopefully ANSTO now has plans in place should a repeat occur.
On Greenpeace Japan’s homepage, Jun Hosokawa writes (apparently a blurb from a propaganda book that he published in Japanese) that “now only Japan sees whales as ‘marine resources'”, rather than “wild animals”.
Norway? Iceland? Russia? Korea? China? Me? Lots of other people around the world?
I hope Greenpeace does get more exposure in Japan. The bigger this issue gets, the faster Greenpeace gets outed and the world becomes a better place.
Greenpeace does this stuff to make money.
So, public security officials should treat this the same as if people from Exxon were boarding a British Petroleum ship.
Criminal activity, take them and lock them up.
Some day, a captain of a ship–somewhere, who knows where–will see a group of miscreants swarming over the bow and let them come on.
They won’t be greenpeacers, and this captain will meet disgrace for not opening the lockers and calling hands to repel boarders. If he lives.
Greenpeacers pose security risks and it may well be that they get blown away by mistake. Or it may turn out not to be a mistake.
Regardless, challenging borders and climbing up the sides of ships is really not very bright at all.
“It just hurts me when they called me a terrorist. It’s simply not fair,” Frank Camp, captain of the Esperanza, told a news conference in Tokyo.
Camp flew to Tokyo ahead of his vessel, which is carrying 23 crew members who had hoped to hold discussions in Japan on whaling.
…
“The crew on the Nisshin Maru are our members. Every time we’ve sailed out to do research Greenpeace has repeatedly caused accidents,” said Seizo Hondo, head of fisheries division at the All Japan Seamen’s Union.
“There is no way we can welcome their entry. They have their claims, we have ours — we can’t and won’t have a conversation with them,” he added.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070329/sc_afp/japanenvironment
* * *
I hope that this is the beginning of a more “no more BS” stance from the Japanese on this issue in general. Enough is enough.
Of course th Japanese wouldn’t be doing their own little performance on the issue would they. And of course we can trust that everything that comes out of their mouths is the utter truth can’t we. Yeah, enough is enough.
You really love Greenpeace don’t you Travy 🙂
Why not ditch them and support a group that isn’t laden so heavily with it’s own baggage?
You seem to take it personally when they are criticized. Maybe one day you’ll care to share why that it?
it -> is
No Davey, I don’t ‘really love Greenpeace’, but I do like equity, which is why you may perceive I ‘take it personally’. All groups, businesses, institutions and even individuals have their own baggage. It’s when those groups, businesses and individuals ignore their own collection of take-on, over-the-shoulder or stow away that I begin to question motives.
“If we had no faults of our own, we would not take so much pleasure in noticing those of others.” – Francois Duc de la Rochefoucauld.
Travy,
So, you think the JSU is being a little tough on the Greenpeace corporate machine in this instance?
Davey,
I can understand why they have taken the stance they have, but be careful what you read into that answer 🙂
Travy,
I think your response is entirely reasonable.
Another article from Janjan (with more pictures of those exercising their denied free speech):
http://www.janjan.jp/world/0703/0703290625/1.php
This time Greenpeace are saying “People in Japan’s fisheries call their saviours terrorists”.
Give me a break. These guys know no shame.
Hahaha, in the article they also suggest that in “2005” a “manoevering mistake” on the part of a whaling vessel resulted in a collision, which is now being called a ramming by fisheries agency officials.
As a result of this (and because officials are helping to confuse Greenpeace with Sea Shepherd in the eyes of the public), “unfortunately” Greenpeace is also “mistakenly” regarded as an “extremist environmental protection group”.
The suggest that “mind control” is being employed to make the Japanese people think that they have a “right to whale” (actually everyone has a right to whale, see UNCLOS). I wonder who is controlling my mind, other than myself?!
They also claim that they provided food supplies to the whaling fleet after the fire accident in February (they don’t say whether the whalers accepted it or not…)
What a bunch of sanctimonious crap.
This is the same Greenpeace organization that was slammed by NZ Energy Minister David Parker in February for their “illegal stunt” in NZ which “put lives at risk”.
Libby,
I know you are a well respected and an excellent researcher and I’m glad that GP carried out a Western Gray Whale survey during their Ulsan campaign in 2005.
What I think is sad is that the mentioned survey did get so little attention on the GP sites( note, I really don’t want to belittle your excellent work).
Actually, I followed the campaign closely and don’t recall anything written about the Gray Whales???? Everything was focused on the building of a whale meat processing factory.
Big, big media focus on this, and it seemed like Greenpeace stopped the processing factory be built during the IWC meeting.
But when I asked GPI folks last year what really happened with the processing factory , they had no clue! Probably, they built the whale processing factory after the activists had left South Korea. And this is not the first time when Greenpeace does not make a follow up , just concentrating on media focus.
As I have mentioned the whaling season starts on Sunday in Norway.
The fisheries paper Fiskaren wrote this morning that the largest whale meat processing factory is not too optimistic in head of the start on Sunday and it will not be a ” flying start” of the season.
They continued that the minke whales are soon going to be removed from the IUCN Red list.
You love to apologise for the Japanese don’t you David. You’ve bought into the whole experience 100%. Perhaps others are tired of the Japanese overexploiting global resources whether they be marine, timber or minerals.
GP didn’t ram the bloody boat – when you ram you don’t have your engines in full reverse and the damage becomes more than a nose biff. As for acid – well orange juice is acidic too. Smelly was the word ! Butyric acid I believe.
The problem with Sea Shepherd is that they’re too restrained.
So ping off you obsessed little sell-out sycophant. Go and munch through your dead whale stockpile.
Hi Ann,
Sorry, but I am laughing from what Luke wrote above…
No, there wasn’t too much about the survey because we didn’t see too much, which to me was interesting in itself. The whole trip had a few politics caused by the local environmental group, plus the South Korean navy wouldn’t let me do any acoustic work, which was a shame. There was lots I would have liked to have done, but too little time and apalling weather. There was a meeting before the 2005 IWC meeting looking at setting up a MPA in South Korean waters, and my report from the survey went to that. And no Ann, I don’t agree with the “well-respected” and “excellent ” bit!!
The footage of the dolphin drive slaughter is enough to make me think that it is not Greenpeace who knows no shame. And no, I don’t “love Greenpeace” either!
> GP didn’t ram the bloody boat
That’s what the willingly gullible keep telling themselves, isn’t it 😉
I wonder what all the curious Japanese people logging on to http://www.icrwhale.org will make of the videos themselves 🙂
Libby, you surely weren’t laughing as hard as I have been while reading through GP’s tripe the last few days 🙂
Libby, Australians know no shame. Just look at the way animals are treated there. Shameful.
Luke was indeed right about you David. You seem willing to defend the Japanese no matter what. “You seem to take it personally when they are criticized. Maybe one day you’ll care to share why that it?”
I have no doubt Australians treat some animals questionably (although I am not sure which you are referring to), but we were talking about the Japanese and Greenpeace. The fact that you have not acknowledged that the dolphin drive slaughters are cruel tends to reinforce previous opinions I have had. Shameful!
Aaah Libby, don’t be so modest! You know I really admire the people who work out in the field , doing the good work!!!
.
Libby and David,
Re the animal cruelty issue, dunno if we have debated this to death??? or shall we start a new thread with the topics that I mentioned in a previous post.
How livestock is impacting on climate change and biodiversity etc. etc vs. how keeping livestock is better/ worse than killing wild animals????
The recently published FAO report mentioned that keeping livestock was one of two or three worst enemies of the environment.
From an animal welfare viewpoint, FAO pointed out that cows on modern fodder, almost always suffered from stomach ache , due to lack of appropriate fodder.( They prefer grass and not artificial pellets etc).
Libby,
Greenpeace’s claims of Japanese whaling interests using “mind control” to deceive the Japanese people are far more shameful than anything that Australians or Japanese do to animals.
Shame! Shame! And you co-operated with such a scumbag organization! You share their shame!!
Ann,
I agree with you. I’ve not seen with my own eyes how cows are treated in places other than NZ and Japan, but there’s no doubt that the dolphins have it better than the cows in both those places. The Japanese feed them on grain, which is worse than in New Zealand where they at least get a paddock full of grass.
Re the dolphin drive hunt . I have posted these comments on an old thread ( harsh words) :
I don’t know if anyone is still hanging around this thread now ?
But Pragmatic did post this gruesome video from the dolphin hunt in Japan and I checked out what a Greenpeace moderator on the GP forum stated about this slaughter.
This moron said the killing method was now banned( ????) . Is it true? I would like to know how they kill dolphins! She continued they are killed in an humane way and it takes only some seconds to kill a dolphin.
Not a single GP supporter has opposed this moderators views. I think this is very spineless!
Posted by: Ann Novek at March 20, 2007 06:59 PM
A Japan correspondent said:
“The fishermen drive the dolphins into a bay and close it with nets, Duits observes. The next day the dolphins are caught, one by one. Fishermen drive a long metal pin into the neck of each dolphin, and within seconds they are dead. Until recently their throats were slit, but Japanese authorities have banned that method, he says. It sometimes took minutes for the dolphins to suffer and die. ”
I just wonder why the officials won’t let some NGOs together with some vets witness the slaughter , if it is done in a ” humane” way?
That would end all rumours??? And how old is Pragmatic’s video?
David,
Now you have me really laughing! Big thanks!!!
Ann,
I believe the video is relatively recent, as it was mentioned in a brief piece in a journal recently.
I don’t think we have debated the animal cruelty topic to death anywhere near the whaling debate. Chickens are the most cruelly-treated animals on the planet apparently. There are obviously some turkeys though that have no idea what pain and suffering is.
ROFTL Libby – you’re going straight to hell for that one. Hey where’s George?
So you miss the whale eaters , Lukey? ( George is without Internet access)
Libby,
I’m currently a bit immobilized due to a small accident, so I can ask Jennifer if she is willing to post something on the animal cruelty issue ( including this FAO report etc).
And where is Pixie????
Well George is a blokey bloke – at least he can’t help himself. I think a night out with George and Rog could be very interesting??
Anyway David is a class enemy sold out to Nippon. He must be arrested but probably can’t be stopped with conventional weapons. We can only promise war without end.
Oh Pinxo-saurus – what a ho-b. Got the MBA finally and has become a merchant banker’s exec earning a squadillion. Totally sold out Ann. You wouldn’t let her be on demos with you now. No more crawling up buildings and unfurling banners now for our Pinx – oh no. What a shill for the establishment she’s become. Probably getting shipments of endangered sea creatures from David for her insatiable palate for exotica. That’s exotica George !
So the blog was good enough for a bit of a study break but one whiff of true loot and she’s gone.
Where´s George?
Up to his neck in packing and moving to the country – :O)
With off an on internet access at the ´ mo.
Here´s Safety data for butyric acid luke –
http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/BU/butyric_acid.html
Hold still whilst I test it out by splattering your eyes with it huh?
A bloke´s bloke Luke? Is that a subtle way of suggesting I´m Gay? Sorry to dissapoint you if you´re cruising but I´m strictly interested in the smarter sex – ( women in case that was too subtle for you ;op )Tho I do have some Gay friends here in Berlin that I can put you in touch with if thats what tickles yer fancy Luke;op
What was the post subject – oh yes, Greenpeace whining … did anybody really expect the Japanese authorities to discuss anything whatsoever with that bunch after the last ten years or so of misinformation, protests and all the other associated crap?
If so, give them my phone number, I have a bridge to sell going Cheap – at the moment its in sydney harbour but I can ship it fed ex worldwide…
dear oh dear
Libby Said :
“There are obviously some turkeys though that have no idea what pain and suffering is. ”
To true Libs – a number of them posting on this blog methinks:p
>Greenpeace’s claims of Japanese whaling interests using “mind control” to deceive the Japanese people are far more shameful than anything that Australians or Japanese do to animals.
That’s an interesting comment Davey. I’d like to put it to the test, you know, get some science behind it. It’s ideal really because humans can speak and tell human researchers how they feel. I propose three studies…
Let’s start with a group of 300 Japanese and put them in a small cell each on a boat. Their faeces and urine can just go down grates in the floor and they can be fed a pelletised meal with very little clean water. If one gets sick they have to wait until they reach the other end. If one dies it can just get chucked overboard. We’ll transport them over the Indian Ocean in the Austral summer with very little ventilation and definately no air con. The whole trip wil take about three weeks. Shall I go on to what happens to them at the other end?
For the next study, we’ll round up a large number of family groups of Japanese and scare them using noise and sharp implements into a comfined space. There we will impale some of them in front of their family members, all the while making a lot of noise to add to the drama, and bash and beat some others. Some will be dragged off and hooked up behind cars and taken to a factory area. There, big sumo wrestlers will sit on them, crushing their lungs and ribs until someone else comes along and makes an incision in their throats and lets them bleed to death.
For the third study group we’ll have some Japanese in a room (could even be in their own homes, haven’t worked out the details of that yet) and get some Greenpeace staff and advertising material to tell them that their government is using mind-control to get them to kill whales.
How does that sound Davey? We can even get the Japanese to conduct it on their own people, that way you will believe the research results (although the results will probably not be accepted in a peer-reviewed journal).
“To true Libs – a number of them posting on this blog methinks:p”
Hi George. My point exactly 🙂
Aren’t cultural differences excellent. Libs hehehehe.
And a blokey bloke would not be gay George. But a bloke’s bloke – well you tell me? I’m unaware of such things and so seldom get a chance to get out these days.
Lukey,
Dunno if Pixie works in that big merchant bank… methink she has left the blog as you guys don’t treat her as a woman….she complained about that!!!
She just used us.
Dunno Lukey – you´re the one suggesting a threesome one night – perhaps you can enlighten the blog readers – you seem to be familiar with the experience :p
Anne, we don´t know that Pinxi is/was a woman do we? That´s the thing with unverifiable blog posters – they could be anybody ( and frequently are )
Good luck to her / him / she/ it anyway 😉
George I don’t think I’m up for that sort of thing. The war wound and all that plus I’m not into the sort of stuff that you kinky whale eating types revel in.
Perhaps Pinxi was a sock puppet?
George I don’t think I’m up for that sort of thing. The war wound and all that plus I’m not into the sort of stuff that you kinky whale eating types revel in.
Perhaps Pinxi was a sock puppet?
I have read that the market for Whale meat in Japan is of recent manufacture, not an old cultural connect as is being sold.
Market forces at work?
fluff
Hi Frank,
The big consumption of whale meat in Japan resumed after WWII since beef etc was difficult to get hold of.
Whaling was encouraged by the Americans.
Here’s an article about this issue:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/13/news/whale.php?page=2
One statement from the article:
” It’s not because Japanese want to eat whale meat,” said Okubo. ” It’s bcause they don’t like being told not to eat it by foreigners”.
This is exactly what the Norwegians and the Icelanders say as well.
This is exactly why Greenpeace’s anti whaling work doesn’t worh in these countries.
Lukey,
Can you imagine Pixie tailored in a smart, black suit, sitting behind a desk????
Japanese whaling is heavily subsidized by the Government. It seems like it is heavily supported by certain people working in the Ministry of Fisheries that wouldn’t let whaling slip away as it would mean that their power and positions will decrease and weaken.
First >Whaling was encouraged by the Americans.
then
>” It’s not because Japanese want to eat whale meat,” said Okubo. ” It’s bcause they don’t like being told not to eat it by foreigners”.
So they can be told what to eat but not what not to eat?
(I am not picking on your English btw Ann).
LOL! Good one, Travis!
I have no link , but it seems like Greenpeace anchors in Japan after whaling standoff.
Methink also it is very difficult to deny a ship access to a port.
“The Esperanza sailed into Yokohama port on Sunday morning. She was awaiting the green lights to dock. It was unclear when that would be, said GP.
Yokohama port officials were not immediately available for comment.”
http://today.reuters.com/News/CrisesArticle.aspx?storyId=T207530
As I mentioned earlier , it is very difficult to deny access to a port for a ship according to UNCLOS and WTO regulations.
I’m still here, but sick of the repetitive brainless crap. Just read david’s recent posts as prime example. As if a computer geek like David with his tireless immature personal vile, specialising in strictly hierarchical, linear computer logic – nothing to do with the real world, natural world or practical skills – would understand viable populations or ecology. Dinner conversations on the subject to an ignorant audience doesn’t pass muster. He never has provided his long term viable cetacean population theory. He just gets a kick and hopes to impress his few friends back home by being a round eye with local knowledge of Jap conditions, some unique sense of identity. Such bratish localised expat narcissism won’t sustain endangered whale populations. When did he last see a living whale? what is David doing to protect endangered whale populations closer to his adopted nation? Nothing. Vile little cretin he is.
Now, now Pixie, you really don’t want the whale eaters going soft???
They get an adrenaline kick like all big game hunters when they hear ” kval ohoj!” ( in Norwegian).
Actually I’m gonna ask Rune from High North Alliance if he can fix me a whaling trip on some of the Norwegian whaling boats ( dead serious), and gonna witness a real whale killing and not only talk about it.
Please all, don’t be shocked by my comment , but I really want to be an inspector’s assistant….
Ann – may I say that you position seems to have moved somewhat after your time here? It’s a threat to Luke’s axiom that mobody ever changes their mind on Jen’s blog. They come here to roast the opposition.
Yeah Lukey, you are correct on this , and I have actually had a little problem with myself over this problem and change…
I started out as an extremely hardcore antiwhaling person, writing endless letters to the editors etc.
But the more info I have got from the Norwegians and Icelanders( note I’m not talking about Japanese whaling), I think the anti whaling camp has run out of many good arguments.
Greenpeace doesn’t oppose Norwegian whaling much, hey, I know even GP guys who eat whale meat( maybe they are joking, dunno). Greenpeace Norway has not updated their site for 6 years on whaling and all headlines in media state that Greenpeace has abandoned whaling and sealing.
The common feeling in the Nordic GP office was also that they didn’t care if you ate a whale or a cow. Differs much from GP International.
The main arguments against whaling is the killing methods IMO. The Norwegians have submitted work on time to deaths to the IWC and they show that 20% of the whales don’t die momentanously. And that is bad…
Well, Lukey, I don’t like whaling , but I would really like to have the discussion with you all on animal cruelty / eco-friendliness etc.
The trip on a whaling boat sounds shocking,I agree, but it would be a very good experience to really know what you are talking about….
As you mentioned previously there are slight cultural differences, but that’s making it even more interesting….
“The Norwegians have submitted work on time to deaths to the IWC and they show that 20% of the whales don’t die momentanously. And that is bad…”
And the TTD for the Japanese fleet is even worse.
Ann – wow ! A blow to Luke’s axiom.
Anyway – do a guest post for Jen on cruelty and open it up. Cows vs roos vs whales vs fishing.
Lukey, making a draft right now…
Well, back again to the whaling issue and why I have been thinking a lot and making a slight change in my opinion.
As I see it many anti whaling nations want to make environmental scores with the voters re whaling. They don’t need to make any sacrifies financially etc. They can bash on loudly and pretend to protect the environment/ whales but when it comes to a local level they don’t make anything to improve the environment or make any improvements for animal welfare issues.
This is very clear especially in EU countries. I can give you horror examples from factory farms and animal transports , but hardly no politician is willing to make improvements for the animals.
In such cases I think it is better with a very small scale and local whaling.
To be continued….
Ann,
“They can bash on loudly and pretend to protect the environment/ whales but when it comes to a local level they don’t make anything to improve the environment or make any improvements for animal welfare issues”.
There is a tendency to finger point and then sit back comfortably, thinking (for example) that if Australia can kill kangaroos, Japan can kill whales. It doesn’t make one more acceptable than the other does it? I don’t think making such comparisons ultimately gets anywhere except making some feel better about committing animal cruelty ie., they do it, so we can do it too.
Each case should be dealt with individually. If countries in the EU should be dealing with factory farming welfare concerns, it should be regardless of whaling, and visa versa.
Yes Libby, both cases should be dealt with individually and I applaud all people that have concerns for the whales AND factory farm animals etc.
Well, I was just checking out a Norwegian animal welfare organisations site ( the one that wrote about the TTD on whales).
So my key question was this after reading both articles . What is better for local communities up in the North. Import factory farmed meat or eating a minke whale steak?
Excerpt from another article from the site:
“…Border inspectors/veterinarians opened an animal tranport with pigs from Denmark and witnessed many hundreds of dehydrated and starving pigs , drowned in their own pooh, with broken legs and starting to eat each other alive.
They had been transported thousands of kilometers…”
This is sooo common in factory farming…. note, I know them very good farmers as well, but farm slaughter seems to have been abandoned these days…
Libby, all,
Maybe we can continue to discuss this mentioned topic on another thread ( if Jennifer is willing to post this one) ?
Another key issue for Libby, Lukey and you all.
What would your opinion be on whaling , if it could be done in a more humane way( maybe a bit of hypothetical question)?
A bit off topic, but as mentioned previously, whaling season opened yesterday in Norway.
No rush and no big activity currently. The first whales will arrive to the processors in the end of April.
It seems to me that the whale meat is going to be quite expensive, 29,50 Norwegian Crowns/Kg. This can be compared to Cod about 28 NOK/Kg, Mackerel 11,83 NOK/Kg and Herring 3,63NOK/Kg.
I knew a few people in Norway that don’t eat whale meat because they think it is too expensive.
Hey Pinxi,
I’m happy to go with whale management as advised upon by the IWC’s Scientific Committee.
You obviously appear to wish to differ.
Regards,
Hi David,
Do you have any news from Japan re the Esperanza??
Has she docked yet?
Any media attention ?
Just catching up on some Japanese media – it has been reported in what seems to be quite a few newspapers that the New York Times published some articles critical of Japan over the last few days, including one on April the 1st in relation to the whaling issue.
It got a one liner as follows:
”
The paper (in an editorial on the whaling issue) criticised Japan, as although the majority of the world recognises the threat of extinction to whales, Japan advocates the slaughter of “these maginificent mammals”
”
Or something like that.
Looks like the debate has sure moved on over the last few decades.
Hi Ann,
You have as much info about the Esperanza as me – it appears that Greenpeace are the only ones reporting their story here. It’s simply gone unmentioned in the Japanese media as far as I can see (besides that fringe “Janjan” media outlet).
Interesting that the Japanese media did however choose to report the New York Times’ criticism of Japan on the whaling issue.
Ironically, it thus appears that debate in Japan is more likely to be sparked by notable foreign newspapers publishing opinion pieces, than by sanctimonious groups that endlessly indulge in juvenille publicity stunts.
“sanctimonious groups that endlessly indulge in juvenille publicity stunts” – would that be politicians perchance??