Last year Greenpeace’s little ship tug the Arctic Sunrise rammed the Nisshin Maru, the mother-ship for the Japanese whaling fleet in the Antarctic. Remember the photographs?
But this year, following a fire on the Nisshin Maru and the evacuation of most of its crew, Greenpeace is now offering help.
The Esperanza, another ship in the Greenpeace fleet, could tow the Nisshin Maru to New Zealand.
Greenpeace says the ship must be moved because it represents a threat to the environment, in particular 1.3 million litres of fuel could leak into the ocean if the ship flounders.
The Japanese have said there is no immediate threat, “Fears that this might turn into some environmental disaster are premature. The vessel is not drifting, it’s not listing and it’s not leaking. The Nisshin Maru is stable and the fire has been contained to one area well away from any fuel and oil storage.”
That the huge Japanese mother-ship, the Nisshin Maru, could be towed out of the Antarctic by arch enemy, Greenpeace, no doubt represents an ultimate embarrassment – a worst nightmare for the Japanese.
Jennifer Marohasy BSc PhD is a critical thinker with expertise in the scientific method.
Jennifer, as you seem moved to reprise past events, would you care to provide us with the page, since removed from the ICR website, that sought to link Greenpeace and SeaShepherd at that time.
It was called I think,
“Greenpeace should release footage of joint actions with Seashepherd”
It had lots of photos, culminating with the collision.
Pragmatic, I’m not responsible for the ICR website and have no idea what has or has not changed at that site, suggest you contact them directly.
Good to see a consistent line from GP at any rate!
No mention of assisting a vessel attacked by criminals, just a desire to protect the Antartic environment!
Or maybe just too good a headline opportunity?
The real criminals are the whalers.
Whaling was one of the first industries along the southern coast of Australia, with the first town in Victoria (Portland) settled as a consequence. Indeed, this species of mega fauna were over-exploited to the point of extinction which was unacceptable – and dealt with, at the time by the introduction with the introduction of the IWC’s ban in’86 ?. Sealing as an industry suffered a similar fate. 20 years have past with no whaling (except the Japanese somewhat illegitimate ‘scientific’ research). Even from an extremely low base, whale numbers have recovered to a point whereby some form of sustainable harvest can no longer be seen as a threat to survival. This is the core argument here. Are there enough to allow commercial whaling? And if not, how many is enough? and when might this be? Greenpeace will say NEVER! Fair enough. Same approach is seen with the timber industry. Although good for publicity of the cause, collisions on the high seas are not the answer.
Not lending assistance to a stranded ship is an offence as well, so they had to offer. Made them squirm too i bet.
Seems though that the Nissin Maru doesn’t need assistance by the Esperanza since the US icebreaker Polar Sea already has entered the stage….
There are obviously two NZ frigates as well ready to assist the Espy…
Ooops…I meant ” to assist the NM”.
BTW, the icebreaker has left the area now, but Espy can be around for another 10 days according to GP.
It will be interesting to follow this case in the near future…the whaling season has indeed been very dramatic and we still don’t know what consequences the fire will have on the near future whaling enterprise….
Hi Mick,
I’m amazed at the change in cultural attitudes that have taken place in New Zealand and Australia in the short space of just 40 or so years. It’s remarkable that New Zealanders and Australians were killing humpbacks in the 1960’s, yet today the suggestion that the Japanese might do the same see’s them criticised with words such as “despicable”, “barbarian” being used by NZ and Aussie representatives. In internet forums, some extremists have likened Japan’s whaling to the actions of Japan’s imperial army in WWII. I doubt that such insults had been leveled at the Aussie and Kiwi whaling operators back in the 1960’s.
I’d slightly modify the core question you ask, however. Not, “Are there enough to allow commercial whaling?”, but “Are the enough to allow for a sustainable harvest”.
The first priority should always be with regards to sustainability. A quota of 1 whale may be determined sustainable – whether a commercial operator wishes to exploit such a quota is ultimately a decision for them to make (as we have seen with Iceland’s whalers taking up the offer of a 9 whale fin whale quota in their waters), and of course the government with jurisdiction is obliged to regulate the activity for compliance purposes.
Ann,
Indeed it seems that the ICR has enough contingency options without Greenpeace’s assistance.
Long term, I don’t think this will have any impact on Japan’s policy in the Antarctic. As long as Japan sees research in the Antarctic as necessary, the research vessels will be maintained and replaced – this is my understanding. The research vessels are the means to an end (Japan’s policy). Naturally one hopes the cause of the fire can be identified and addressed to prevent such tragedies in future.
I have a translation of the details surrounding the death of the crew member who died in the fire at my blog, if anyone is interested.
Well David it might be all a bright new cross-cultural adventure in the new world order for you but some members of Australian society may have quite strong views on the actions of your adopted nation in WWII. So what do you expect? That generation is still alive. And one might ponder how many Japanese are seriously aware of their nation’s involvement in whaling anyway. Similarly what knowledge might Australians have had of their whaling past is a point to ponder.
Certainly sitting on the cliffs at the Cape Byron lighthouse and spotting a whale is really great experience. The last thing most people would want to do is shoot a bloody big grenade tipped harpoon into it.
The Arctic Sunrise is not a little tug but an old sealing vessel.
I don’t believe that there was any decision in a court of law that determined that the Arctic Sunrise rammed the Nisshin Maru.
Sea Shepherd seemed to have no objections to the Japanese whalers assisting them in their search for the two crew in the inflatable. Pride usually comes before a fall.
Australia, like much of the rest of the world, realised that there was no longer anything we could get from dead whales that we couldn’t grow or manufacture. Therefore, whaling became unnecessary. Around this time cetacean research and captive cetaceans were making their mark on many people’s consciousness. It took another 15 years before our ‘nervousness’ around live large whales was overcome and our whale watching industry developed. I believe some Australians see whaling for what it is: cruel and unnecessary.
Of course no criticisms would have been leveled at Australian whalers in the 1950’s – we knew no better, but I have met a number of NZ and Australian whalers who became involved in cetacean conservation and research and believed that whaling was a horrible industry.
I am intrigued that the Japanese had requested Australian and NZ assistance for the incident in the Ross Sea and also seem to want us to respect their right to eat whale. It seems the Japanese don’t respect our right to have a Whale Sanctuary where their ships currently reside, or the fact that we have a valuable whale watching industry based around recognised migratory and threatened species.
JOINT STATEMENT BY DR HIROSHI HATANAKA, DIRECTOR GENERAL OF ICR AND MR. KAZUO YAMAMURA, PRESIDENT OF KYODO SENPAKU
“Today, the crew of the Nisshin Maru were able to search the area of the vessel that caught fire. It is with great sadness they have reported finding the body of sailor Kazutaka Makita, who succumbed to the effects of the fire.
“He was located at 08:20 am (local time) on the second deck close to where the fire began and quickly spread throughout that area.
“Mr Makita, 27, was from Kagoshima Prefecture, south of Kyushu Island. He has played an important role aboard Nisshin Maru.
“This is deeply saddening. The Institute of Cetacean Research and Kyodo Senpaku express their heartfelt sympathy to Mr Makita’s family,” Dr Hatanaka and Mr. Yamamura said.
17th February.
It is always very enlightening and funny to discuss the whaling issue with the Aussies….and I realise now there really exists ” cultural contrasts”.
Most Scandinavian children would think it is totally unacceptable to kill a cute kangaroo, but OK to kill livestock, moose and reindeers. In Iceland and Norway whales as well.
So where from do people and children get their ideas from?
BTW, there is a really strange discussion going on in the GP kiddos discussions forum. It seems like some people seem to think it is OK to kill whales if they are farmed!!!!
Methink this is a scary thought …..can’t people realise that factory farming is the biggest threat to animal welfare???
Killing cute ones IS unaceptable Ann – but the rest of them are fair game!
Actually Ann – most Australians don’t shoot kangaroos. Most Australians don’t own firearms.
Specific macropod species are culled when in plague numbers in drought conditions, then a hazard to the rangeland resource itself. And actually many Australians have issues with the industry.
Why extra numbers- provision of watering points from undergorund water for grazing sheep and cattle – left to nature the roos will die of dehydration and lack of grass. Where’s the animal welfare officers as 1000s of roos perish under the sun ! Do you have major droughts in Scandinavia ?
Similarly I think consumption patterns of farm produced meat are changing for health sure but with vegetarianism and animal welfare concerns on the increase. It’s the ethical dilemma you can see shoppers having in front of the chicken eggs counter – do I buy the cheap battery cage product or the more expensive barn or free range product.
It will be interesting to see another generation on. Certainly the meat producing industries themselves are well aware of trends.
Problems with whaling I believe are part of a wider social and ethical trend and whaling in many respects examples of yesterday’s industries.
P.S. Roos can kick and scratch – don’t think they’re too cute. Koalas are also well known for piddling over their famous politician, royalty and movie star holders as well as scratching. Leave’em be.
Luke,
Japan’s actions in WWII are well recognised.
Where whaling is concerned however, this is an activity that Australia was partaking in as well, while it found it economically beneficial to do so. You may not agree with the assessment, but many people do believe that Australian opposition to whaling today reaks of hypocrisy.
People who wish to associate the events of WWII with whaling activity are pathetic, to put it simply.
I think the reason for Australian criticism of whaling today is mainly because they “know no better”.
>this is an activity that Australia was partaking in as well, while it found it economically beneficial to do so
It was an activity that was necessary. We needed oil for lights, machinery and so on. We no longer have trucks piled high with dead koalas for the fur industry.
Many countries around the world were partaking in whaling, not just Australia. Many countries around the world have stopped for the same reasons Australia has. Most Australians are well aware of whaling and the pleasures of seeing the animals alive. They do know better, and that is coming from an Australian who lives in the country.
Jim and Lukey,
Thanks for your witty and logical and rational replies…
Still I am intrigued by why a group of Scandinavian children hiking in the mountains refused to eat kangaroo meat but accepted to eat Santa’s reindeers…no, it had nothing to do with taste…it had to do with cuteness!!
Lukey, re your response that whaling is soo yesterday…. but that is one of the reasons why the Norwegians hunt, to keep traditions alive…
Bad or good, there are many traditions I could ditch, for example the Swedish Monarchy.
Travis,
I doubt I’ll ever understand your explanations regarding a lot of things, but I have to say that I find it odd that one could describe whaling as a necessary industry to obtain … oil… for lights, machinery and so on, but then still see Australians criticising whaling … for food… as an unnecessary industry.
This is particularly odd given that the whale meat product produced is a competitor for Australia’s cheap beef exports to the Japanese market. I guess the Aussie beef industry is necessary though, to obtain funds to buy oil for lights and machinery and so on.
David, are you telling me that the Japanese need whale meat as a food source? Are you telling me that many of the products that were utilized from whales when Australia and NZ began whaling were not necessary?
>I guess the Aussie beef industry is necessary though, to obtain funds to buy oil for lights and machinery and so on.
Nope, but heck we need those nifty, necessary Nippon gadgets.
>I doubt I’ll ever understand your explanations regarding a lot of things
When one is so set in ones ways, it is hard to see another side to anything.
No David – you think it’s pathetic coz that’s the culture in which you find yourself. The observation of the way the Japanese gave conducted business in the world – forestry, fishing – does not go without notice nor without scrutiny. Same for the yanks or ouselves for that matter.
” Whale meat cargo must come to NZ”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/3965900a6442.html
In the past I might have found it astonishing that someone would justify his nations’ past exploitation of whales for oil to fuel their industrial revolution, yet criticise other nation’s historical, current and future desire to exploit whales for food.
… But then I met Travis.
Luke,
What? The country I live in today has a pascifist constitution (right now anyway) and WWII ended 62 years ago. But, feel free to play on…
For some years ago, there was a whaling documentary in Sweden on whaling in Antarctica. It was mentioned that ” the Antarctica was the whale’s Auschwitz and the whaler’s Klondyke”.
I wrote about it the Greenpeace forum, but the GP webbie deleted it and said WWII crimes should not be compared to whaling.
Yeah Luke, let us never forget the crimes by Hitler and Stalin and the Imperial Army etc. but it is not appropriate to mention this IMO in connection with whaling activities…well, where to draw the line…
In his response to Travis, David is playing dumb, refusing to get the point about progression of need and understanding over time. Doesn’t understand market substitutes? Is against progress?
David is a software engineer and therefore accepts human centred logic, conceptual distinctions and hierarchical constructs as supreme, so what can we expect him to understand about progress and market substitutes, eco tourism, nationlist politics of a country searching for an identity after war atrocities, or ecological complexity? Just because he has immersed himself in the Japanese arguments doesn’t mean that he understands or has sufficient time longitudinal perspective to appreciate the issues at stake.
… oh and I met Pinxi as well
>… But then I met Travis.
Nope, can’t say I’ve ever met you David. Perhaps you equate the written word on a blog exchange as meeting someone, much like you are faking ignorance on the historic whaling debate (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here).
WWII did end 62 years ago, but not for some. There has been much media coverage of the Japanese comfort women this past week, so I guess there are some who still relive the bad old days, and some who don’t want to rescognise and apologise for past crimes.
Can you tell me more about this Trav, and how it has anything to do with the way various peoples around the world have a desire to utilise whales as food, as they have done for years both before and after WWII?
Ah, I wondered where David@Tokyo would end up after throwing a hissy fit recently and storming out of the Greenpeace forums pledging not to return…..
‘A quota of 1 whale may be determined sustainable’ – D@T
Except Japan isn’t taking one whale, indeed the current ‘scientific’ quota is over 1,000 after pregnant females are taken into account and any commercial quota would have to be considerably higher since the current hunt has to be subsidised by the Japanese government… so hypothetical examples designed to play down the numbers are transparent propaganda….
Jennifer, those “photographs” can be had from the ICR website at a higher resolution:
http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea-img-3.htm
and:
http://www.icrwhale.org/gpandsea-img-2.htm
There is an interval of about five seconds between them, both taken from the same position by the one camera, as the Arctic Sunrise sideswipes Nisshin-maru.
There is some interesting detail in gpandseaimg-3
Excerpt from Times Online:
“The accident is a gift to the international enemies of whaling and a kick in the blowhole for the whalers and their backers in the Japanese Government. There is only one consolation to be had – the subject has received minimally discreet coverage in the supine Japanese press. ”
The western commentary on this issue all rather bemusing.
Information about the incident is readily available in Japanese, and contrary to what has been said at the Greenpeace cheerleaders weblog, the national broadcaster, NHK did indeed report the fire incident and unfortunate death of Kazutaka Makita (Google’s Japanese edition provides ample evidence). But the western commentators are clueless if they expected this news to make top billing in Japan.
What the western media just doesn’t understand is that whaling is just another form of marine resource utilization for the Japanese. That’s why the Japanese media is “supine”. It’s sad that a fire occured and a man lost his life, but that doesn’t change the basic reality. And so the world moves on.
The western media is also full of reports based on Greenpeace’s “ALARMIST AND ARMAGEDDONIST” fear mongering. The ICR says there is no structural damage to the ship and no threat of an oil leak. The USA ice breaker vessel confirmed that there was no leak. Nor does the ICR or Kyodo Senpaku hope to lose their largest (and presumably most valuable) research vessel.
In short, the Japanese media can’t sell news by reporting Greenpeace’s “wolf” cries.
Report: Meat contributes to climate change
ROME, Italy, Feb. 20 (UPI) — A report by a U.N. organization in Rome says a large amount of the greenhouse gases credited with global warming come from livestock.
The report, by the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization, said the gasses result from deforestation and the use of energy to produce fertilizer and run slaughterhouses and processing plants, the Christian Science Monitor reported Tuesday.
The FAO report said gasses produced by the livestock trade account for 18 percent of all greenhouse-gas emissions, including 9 percent of all carbon dioxide emissions, 37 percent of methane and 65 percent of nitrous oxide. The total percentage exceeds that caused by transportation.
“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” said Henning Steinfeld, senior author of the report.
The report’s findings have been cited by animal rights groups as a reason to end meat eating
My above post is controversial.
Some Norwegian NGOs with similar agenda as Greenpeace points out like prowhaling organisations such as High North Alliance , that whale meat is much more eco-friendly than factory farmed products.
What’s your opinion?
“The livestock sector emerges as one of the top two or three most significant
contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from
local to global. The findings of this report suggest that it should be a major
policy focus when dealing with problems of land degradation, climate change and
air pollution, water shortage and water pollution, and loss of biodiversity.
Livestock’s contribution to environmental problems is on a massive scale and its
potential contribution to their solution is equally large. The impact is so
significant that it needs to be addressed with urgency. Major reductions in
impact could be achieved at reasonable cost.”
Full report:
http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.htm#sum
Is it also acceptable when you read this report that meat cosumption is allowed on Greenpeace’s ships , when climate change is their highest priority according to them?
Greenpeace’s home nation of the Netherlands has one of the highest per capita levels of meat consumption in the world.
It’s telling that they see more “benefit” from sailing a ship to the other side of the world and protesting against Japanese whaling than pulling weeds out from their own backyard.
“Save the whales” = “Save Greenpeace’s corporate brand”
Greenpeace crew are made up of people from outside the ‘green’ norm – merchant seamen, ex-naval personnel and so on. The actual crew are not your long-haired hippies but often older, and have been working in conservative industries (the deckhands are the exception). Many of the engineers, electricians and mates like to eat meat and would not expect to be forced to not eat this when they have been working in over 40C in the engine room. They also come from a diverse range of nationalities. Greenpeace recognises this and respects their right to eat meat, but also has vegetarian food at every meal.
As for ships sailing to the other side of the world, isn’t that basically what the Japanese do? Now David wants to dictate what the Dutch eat but cry foul when they dictate what the Japanese eat. I think there is an identity crisis here somewhere.
As for ‘Nor does the ICR or Kyodo Senpaku hope to lose their largest (and presumably most valuable) research vessel’ – after two fatalities I wonder if these organisations really care about the safety of personnel who actually man the vessel? Seems it is they who care about their corporate brand.
Ann,
Why don’t you do a separate post on livestock, climate change and issues like factory farming? You’ve asked a question here on people’s opinions about it, but it is lost in this thread. A new one would put it out to a wider audience. Just a thought…
On the GP ships providing meat – Travis is right. The actual crew are on for about 4 months then go back to other jobs. Some are dedicated GP personnel, but many are employed just for that particular trip. A burly German engineer who is used to meat for dinner tends not to be too accomodating when he can’t eat it for 4 months at sea. It would make more sense if GP bought meat for the ships only from suppliers that had a good eco/ethical background, which I have no idea if they do. As far as I know the perishables such as fruit and vegies are carefully chosen, with things such as excess packaging even considered. I know the chefs can get dismayed when they can’t make such choices, like I saw in Mauritius one time.
Travis,
“I wonder if these organisations really care about the safety of personnel who actually man the vessel?”
That sort of comment is uninformed, disrespectful and serves no useful purpose whatsoever. You should be ashamed of yourself.
You’re also confusing yourself. Greenpeace purports to be for conservation and the environment, yet while having problems much closer to home, makes opposing a sustainable hunt on the other side of the world conducted by the Japanese it’s headline campaign.
When that campaign backfire, they cry wolf about oil spills, when once again problems are both real and evident much closer to home:
http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=81&story_id=36796
Anyone who supports Greenpeace going to the other side of the world to oppose Japan’s whaling is not a conservationist, but either ignorant or completely having their conservation priorities out of whack. I’m guessing the latter in your case Travis.
Says Travis: “David wants to dictate what the Dutch eat”.
If you want to have an argument with yourself, you needn’t use my name to do so. Greenpeace people can eat whatever they like, I haven’t said otherwise (maybe you want to throw your cyberpunches at Ann). Discussions involve both sides reading, thinking, and understanding, not making up stuff and putting it in your fellow man’s mouth then attacking your own dumbass strawmans. You ought to ask yourself why you have a seemingly constant desire to pick a fight with me. I can but speculate as to why it is.
“Seems it is they who care about their corporate brand.”
A government subsidised organization has a “corporate brand”? Oh the wonderful world of Travis. How old are you?
For readers who didn’t see it:
http://david-in-tokyo.blogspot.com/2006/06/iwc-2006-greedy-greenpeace-to-cash-in.html
Mr Shallhorn has taken the reins at Greenpeace Australia, which has stemmed the tide of supporters deserting the organisation. Last year, it expanded its supporter base by 7000 to about 117,000, after it had shrunk 17,720 the previous three years.
The new boss puts this down to a concerted recruitment drive and high-profile campaigns such as the anti-whaling action in the Antarctic that received widespread international coverage.
True David, my fault for not putting corporate brand in “”, which was intended. You’re a feisty fellow aren’t you? I’m sure you can get the gist of what I was saying. Then again…
>That sort of comment is uninformed, disrespectful and serves no useful purpose whatsoever. You should be ashamed of yourself.
No sort of comment from you when the likes of Mott and Schiller were accusing Sea Shepherd of being involved in the accident were there? Why would that be…? I am actually being highly respectful of the crew, who are on a damaged ship in the Southern Ocean with a dead man on ice whilst the powers that be tell them to refuse offers of assistance. Meanwhile his loved ones wait for his return. Thankfully the weather has held out. If the Nisshun Maru is past her use by data she should be replaced before more lives are at risk. What the hell is disrespectful about that, hmm?
Regarding GP doing work closer to home, I assume you realise that they have more than one or two vessels? They have done work around the English Channel for example whilst other vessels have been ‘on the other side of the world’. They are an international organisation, so one would expect them to leave the Netherlands occasionally. Anyone who thinks an international organisation such as WWF or GP should stay at their base must be rather strange, but it would suit your argument. Conservation priorities such as slaughtering endangered species for questionable research before selling them at a pretty penny to restaurants and pushing them in school lunches is obviously easier to swallow for you, literally.
>I can but speculate as to why it is.
Yes, you do a lot of that, such as –
>How old are you?
Have just seen your 11:23 comment David (which was in process whilst I was typing). Um, what is the difference between Shallhorn’s “concerted recruitment drive”and the push for whale in Japanese schools, at festivals, retirement homes, etc?
Any “seemingly constant desire to pick a fight” with you is in your own head, but may be your own doing!
“What the hell is disrespectful about that, hmm?”
1) Your comments on the subject show that you are uninformed
2) Your comments are disrespectful in that you wish to try to score cheap points with your uninformed comments, trivialising the loss of a human life, despite your being uninformed
3) Your comments serve no useful purpose (other than perhaps to show you up for the shameful chap that you are)
The time for your attempts at disrespectful political point scoring will come once you are properly informed, which is certainly not going to be before the body of Makita-san completes it’s journey back to Japan, and certainly not before investigations are completed.
“Anyone who thinks an international organisation such as WWF or GP should stay at their base must be rather strange”
The point (which you still fail to acknowledge) is that there are plenty of problems closer to home of greater significance than Japan’s hunting whales in the Antarctic. Greater significance in terms of conservation I mean – not in terms of fund-raising.
The fact remains that if Greenpeace can afford to spare their largest vessel to chase the Japanese around the Antarctic and wave banners, it gives the world the impression that there are no pressing conservation issues anywhere in the world. I don’t believe that that is the case.
“Conservation priorities such as slaughtering endangered species for questionable research before selling them at a pretty penny to restaurants and pushing them in school lunches”
Are you willingfully ignorant? Japan’s research in the Antarctic is primarily in relation to making for the rational utilization of abundant (and recovering) natural resources that certain whale stocks represent, not “saving the planet” as Greenpeace purports to.
“>I can but speculate as to why it is.
Yes, you do a lot of that, such as –
>How old are you?”
What’s your point Travis? And how old are you, anyway? I want to know how much slack I should be cutting you.
> Any “seemingly constant desire to pick a fight” with you
> is in your own head, but may be your own doing!
I note that you fail to acknowledge your previously pathetic behaviour of putting words in my mouth (re “dictate what the Dutch eat”) so that you can debate yourself. Keep your rants coming, Travis. It’s you that they reflect on, not me. You ought to remember that I’m not the only one reading your diatribes at me.
There is a vast difference between news as “broadcast”, and news on the net.
The NHKnews7 1900JT bulletin had no coverage of the fire.
For the Japanese audience who rely on that service, the event didn’t happen.
A man died when a fire threatened the Nisshin-maru. The area was isolated and a man died. IT HAPPENED.
The barometer for Japanese attitudes is certainly not the internet.
What is the “NHKnews7 1900JT bulletin”? Some global broadcast or something?
What was reported on it instead?
OMG! You mean it isn’t just you and me David?
My comments are not direspectful David. That is your (mis)interpretation of them.
Hurray! We have a new ism at this site – ageism. You and Mott have both taken up the cause. I guess I am just old enough to be able to earn my own money to buy that anti-pimple cream. I’ll give you an idea. I was engaged to a Japanese person (sound familiar?) Despite us both being madly in love with each other, we still managed to be separate entities. I remained Australian, she Japanese. I never let my love for her stop me from seeing certain things the Japanese did or had done as bad or questionable, and she never let her love for me stop her from seeing certain things Australia did or had done as bad or unquestionable. Love did not blind us in other words. Read into that what you will. And try and chill out a bit. You are the one currently doing all the ranting!
NHK news7 (bilingual) is broadcast under the aegis of NHK World News, at 7Pm JST, daily. Is it not the news presented to Japanese audiences?
This site:
http://martinjapan.blogspot.com/
mentions that news of the fire was broadcast in the morning, but not subsequently.
Travis,
1) With confirmation that you are of adult age, I suggest that you act it.
2) You ought to think long and hard about what it was that made you try to attribute the “dictate what the Dutch eat” notion to me. It may help prevent your further embarassment in future.
pragmatic,
I see… Greenpeace fanboy “martininjapan” may wish that the news of the death be given top billing, but the *reality* is that the Japanese media will give top billing to whatever stories they consider most newsworthy. The question a more level-headed observer would be asking is “what was reported instead, and was it more interesting to the Japanese populace than an operational incident on a whaling vessel which resulted in a man going missing and eventually being found dead?”
As I said previously, information about the death of Makita-san is readily available in the Japanese news media, the ICR has a press release about it, etc etc. Any conspiracy theories should take these facts into consideration – but then conspiracy theories based on facts tend not to be so exciting…
I’ve just taken a look through the comments at martininjapan’s post, and Charlie Tan has also found a whole bunch of articles related to the issue including one from the Yomiuri Shinbun (one of, if not the largest Japanese dailies). This whole suggestion of a media cover up would be laughable if a man had not lost his life.
>1) With confirmation that you are of adult age, I suggest that you act it.
2) You ought to think long and hard about what it was that made you try to attribute the “dictate what the Dutch eat” notion to me. It may help prevent your further embarassment in future.
Yes dad, but must I clean up my room?
Yet another article out of the Japanese media today from the Nikkei shinbun:
http://www.nikkei.co.jp/news/shakai/20070222AT1G2200V22022007.html
“Japan research whaling fire – USA dispatches ice breaker”
The article confirms that the US and Japanese governments are in contact regarding the situation, and that the US dispatch was in response to request from NZ to monitor the situation (Does this mean the NZ government doesn’t trust Greenpeace to accurately report on the situation?)
The article also mentions that “environmental protection group” Greenpeace has sent a letter off to C. Rice
>Does this mean the NZ government doesn’t trust Greenpeace to accurately report on the situation?
1) Your comments on the subject show that you are uninformed
2) Your comments are disrespectful in that you wish to try to score cheap points with your uninformed comments.
3) Your comments serve no useful purpose (other than perhaps to show you up for the shameful chap that you are)
” Crew restarts engine of disabled whaling ship near Antarctica”:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070221-1522-antarctica-whalingship.html
Whale watching in Japanese media.
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200702210169.html
Hi Libby,
Libby :” Ann,
Why don’t you do a separate post on livestock, climate change and issues like factory farming? You’ve asked a question here on people’s opinions about it, but it is lost in this thread. A new one would put it out to a wider audience. Just a thought…”
Yeah, that might be a good idea! I can try and make a new thread and blog post and see if Jennifer accepts it!
Livestock and climate change should be hot issues especially in Australia!
It can also deal with issues as Luke pointed out , “that whaling is so yesterday” and the philosophy of S. Irwing ” not to utilise wild animals for human consumption”.
Controversial issue indeed!
PS. But back at the GP Forum, former IFAW delegate, Sidney Holt, stated as well that it is ” better to hunt wild animals” than to keep them in cages”!
Might be a good discussion!
I dunno Ann. I reckon if you kept a minke in a tank it would make for a better head shot. Oh, but the ear bones would be useless then!
Anyway, good luck with your post. I am sure Jennifer would accept it and it will be an interesting read. I don’t think it is something we have really covered, but I could be wrong.
This just in from Japan’s NHK:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/knews/news/2007/02/22/t20070222000165.html
(my translation – exclusive for Jen’s blog)
“Whaling boat fire – engine restored
The Japanese ‘Nisshin Maru’ whaling vessel, where a crew member died when a fire disaster occured while operating in the Antarctic ocean, restored it’s engine on the 22nd. According to the Fisheries Agency, a decision will be made during the next few days on whether the vessel will return to Japan or continue with the research whaling.
(2/22 20:26)”
I’m now going to turn my TV on to NHK and see if it has made top billing…
The internet report above (with a bit more verbiage, and aerial photos of the Nisshin Maru), was just broadcast on NHK…
NHK reported about the Nisshin Maru for the first time in six days tonight (Thursday). I think it is very strange that with the governments of the U.S., New Zealand and Australia showing concern about this accident, why would Japan’s major news media not be reporting about it?
“Tom Casey said US officials were worried about the safety of the Japanese crew aboard the Nisshin Maru and any possible environmental problems that might result from a fire that occurred aboard the ship a week ago.”
http://www.thewest.com.au/aapstory.aspx?StoryName=358281
You blog anonymously about this issue, while calling people like me “Greenpeace fanboy”. How about being a bit more sincere, “David” if you want to be taken seriously.
Thanks Martin. Nice to get another perspective, especially from within Japan. And to think, I thought his name was really David….
” And to think, I thought his name was really David…. ”
It is Travis … or are you really travis? Pot. kettle.black
Martin,
I know who david is – and its simple to find out – it´s not as if he´s trying to keep his identity confidential like the usual suspects here… If you´d bothered to inquire a bit more, you´d find that david has been consistent in his views on whaling for many many years… but as usual it´s easier go for the man instead of the ball´…
take that as you will ;p
Hello George,
Are you implying my name is not really Travis? Otherwise I don’t see the connection with the kitchen ware.
Martin,
The same story you link to above was reported in the Nikkei Shinbun yesterday.
You are making up stories that have no basis in fact, and that’s why I don’t take you seriously. I saw your post on the Greenpeace weblog, and laughed.
Do you actually follow the Japanese media at all? Or do you assume that if you missed the news, it wasn’t reported (your conspiracy theory)?
Now is this news, or perhaps just a conspiracy?
My thanks to Imre Cohen:
http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin
No Pragmatic, no conspiracy. It occurs in Japan. Even I was unaware of the level of cruelty involved, although perhaps I was just in denial. I wont comment on the narration. I am sure David will have more to say on it, but regardless of what your thoughts are on sustainable harvests, NOTHING justifies such outright cruelty. Thanks for the link Pragmatic/Imre.
pragmatic,
I believe that effort should be made to improve the killing efficiency related to slaughter of all animals. I don’t believe that banning slaughter of a particular animal is a suitable way of achieving that.
It is very difficult to make a video footage of the slaughter nowadays, so it is a good undercover footage.
Yes, I have in the past followed the drive hunt issue in Japan but me too was taken or shocked by the cruelty involved, especially that still living dolphins were transported away from the area on a van.
The least that could be demanded is that a vet follows the procedure and it is of crucial importance that killing methods improve if the slaughter can’t be ended , which I doubt very much , since it is sustainable.
It also seems like the Japanese public is totally unaware of the issue .
A Japanese animal wefare group, Elsa Nature Japan, is working on the issue.
What is not known so much, is that the drive hunts are also supported by the Aquarium industry .
As a matter of fact Japan Times wrote about the drive hunts two days ago.
If you are interested in animal welfare issues and dolphin hunts , the French NGO,One Voice, has a good website on drive hunts and other animal welfare issues:
http://www.onevoice-ear.org/english/index.html
Thanks Pragmatic. Nope, I can’t understand why animal welfare groups feel they need to resort to violence after seeing that. You should be a politician David.
“Hello George,
Are you implying my name is not really Travis? Otherwise I don’t see the connection with the kitchen ware.”
I don´t know wtf you are – neither does anybody else – hence “the pot calling the kettle black ”
You´re a anonymous name floating round the blog `travis `
Travis,
Is that a confirmation from you that “animal welfare” groups are resorting to violence?
Isn’t it amusing to see how fast the empty suggestions of a Japanese media cover-up over the Nishsin Maru fire vanished?
Anyone want to take bets on which off-topic subject comes up next?
Bull-fighting?
I’m just trying to work out your logic david. When David Lusseau published that dolphin watching in Fiordland was detrimental to the dolphins, you were up in arms on your own blog, saying how hypocritical is was for the NZ government to be critical of Japan’s whaling when this was happening on their (NZ’s) doorstep. That is understandable, but your highly measured response to Pragmatic here seems to imply that no such high-level response from you is warranted in this particular case of cruelty in Japan. Is this the case? Please note, I am not looking to pick a fight with you, but rather understand your line of thinking.
George,
Ah, so my anoymous name is as anonymous as David’s then. Thanks JM.
David,
I don’t believe I ever said anything prior to 3:06 about whether animal welfare groups were violent or not. Your crowing about the Japanese media (which a newcomer you obviously have a strong dislike for raised)is perhaps a suggestion of your own maturity. Your hasty brushing aside of Pragmatic’s addition here and flippantly bringing up another form of animal cruelty only reinforces it.
Libby,
For me, the sustainable use of natural resources (related to conservation) and animal welfare (no relation to conservation) are two distinct issues.
Travis,
I personally have no problem with people raising cruelty issues (although it’s off topic for this issue), but as with everything, rather than singling out the Japanese a little more balance would provoke more constructive discussion.
At least Libby thought my response was “highly measured”, but I note that you’ve elected once again to come trying to pick a fight with me. What is our score? 100 to nil? You give me the impression that you’re desperate to try to level things up.
David,
Some people here have mentioned that the Japanese coverage of the NM fire is/was poorly reported in Japan.( But according to you this is not true).
One Japanese man told me once that the Japanese are unwilling to criticize their Gov’t and their superiors . So it seems to be a cultural thing????
Actually , once when I was in GP , I met a Japanese woman and started to discuss the whaling issue with her. I saw immediately that this was not the right thing to do and the poor woman looked only confused and embarrased. I had raised the totally wrong topic when I tried to criticize her Gov’t.
I have little knowledge about the Japanese society, but it seems like the only loud protests seem to come from students protesting against nuclear????
David,
I guess the Japanese were brought up here because we are discussing the Japanese whaling issue. Otherwise, yes I agree, there are countless other examples by other nations that could be brought up (Ann will be looking at this it seems), but hopefully even you can see maybe why the Japanese were ‘singled’ out here – it is on topic from a country perspective.
Nope, I was not tryig to ‘pick a fight’ with you, but throw back some of your own lines of attack in relation to acting your age. However, as you may be able to note here, I am trying to be ‘measured’ and am certainly not desperate to get to your level! 🙂
Ann,
Re: “poor reporting”…
In terms of quality, I can’t really say one way or another as we don’t have all the facts yet. Time will tell whether the Japanese media’s reporting has been appropriate in terms of content or not. But obviously they have reported the fire, the death of the crew man, etc, but AFAIK haven’t covered Greenpeace’s complaints about the “imminent disaster” (as of yet – not sure why they would though). The NZ governments’ complaints did get a little coverage.
In terms of quantity, without a doubt there has been less on this in the Japanese media than in the western media, but that’s standard. Japanese people are generally not that interested in the whaling issue. Ironically both pro-whalers and anti-whalers would like to change that reality, but neither has been particularly successful in doing so. I picked up a book by the WFF (Women’s Forum for Fish) the other day, which is aimed at promoting knowledge of the issue amongst the country’s youth. The book’s publication has been reported a bit in the media, so it’ll be interesting to see how it goes.
Culturally, yep, it’s not good form in Japan to openly criticise one’s elders, but this doesn’t appear apply where the government is concerned. Recently a silly old duffer (Yanagisawa the Health Minister) made a comparison of women to “birth giving machines” and (if I heard it right) men to “devices” (he was talking about Japan’s decreasing population issue). Women were outraged, and it caused a big media stir here. The government seems to have taken a beating over it.
I don’t know why the Japanese woman you met reacted the way she did, but my impression is that many Japanese (outside the food industry) have a natural instinct to defend Japan on the issue, but not have the knowledge to be able to do so. I wonder whether she took it as a criticism of a part of Japan’s culture, rather than a criticise of the government? And then, many other Japanese are just plain apathetic (presumably because it doesn’t effect them personally). People I’ve talked to who like the taste of whale meat seem to be more interested.
Japanese students? My impression is that they are too busy partying to do anything thoughtful (outside a smallish minority).
Travis,
This post is a little bit off topic but I would like to point out that the majority of animal welfare organisations don’t resort to violence.
I have responsibility of birds and small mammals in our community when they are in need of medical care.
The wildlife rehab center is a mix of ” ordinary people” and animal activists, who are a bit crazy but don’t resort to violence.
For example , the volunteer vet is a Head of a hunter’s association together with some of the best and skilled volunteers and animal catchers.I can hardly imagine they would like to help out for an NGO that supports violence.
Well, some of the activists are really crazy but good hearted IMO in a wrong way. I hardly dare to mention this , but they don’t want to use mouse trap for ctuelty reasons , so instead to ” see the mess”, they buy expensive already dead lab mouse for the owls! I have had an argument with these people over this craziness , especially when the mice eat all electrical wire that might cause a short-cut and fire…. Sorry a bit off topic, but just a note that animal activits usually not are violent but sometimes out of touch of reality ….
Ooops… sorry for the spelling errors… trying to improve myself!!!
” George,
Ah, so my anoymous name is as anonymous as David’s then. Thanks JM.”
Roflmfao …
Travis or whoever / whatever you are – google david@tokyo, wade look through the references and lo and behold, you will find out who david is – full name and all associated .. anonymous my butt.. have the moral and intellectual courage to stand up for your beliefs ..No? why am i not surprised ..
Ann,
I think if you look back through the whaling/environmentalists threads you will see the likes of Schiller and Mott talking about the ‘violent’, ‘radical’ groups (they cite Sea Shepherd for example). My mentioning groups resorting to violence was more directed at them. Trust me, I know that most groups are very sweet natured, and that some people who work with/for animals can be a little left of centre but have hearts of gold. That is what makes the rich tapestry of life. I’m afraid I can’t use mouse traps (‘back breakers’) either, but prefer to catch them in what we call Elliot traps and relocate them (no, not in the Australian bush). Mind you, I don’t have owls to feed.
George/JM,
>google david@tokyo, wade look through the references
Um, no thanks.
>have the moral and intellectual courage to stand up for your beliefs
Gee George/JM, I believe that is what I do here!
Thought so, Spineless…
Those without backbones make up approx 99% of life!
the *reality* is that the Japanese media will give top billing to whatever stories they consider most newsworthy. The question a more level-headed observer would be asking is “what was reported instead, and was it more interesting to the Japanese populace than an operational incident on a whaling vessel which resulted in a man going missing and eventually being found dead?”
As I said previously, information about the death of Makita-san is readily available in the Japanese news media, the ICR has a press release about it, etc etc. Any conspiracy theories should take these facts into consideration – but then conspiracy theories based on facts tend not to be so exciting…
Posted by: david@tokyo at February 22, 2007 03:13 PM
The lead item on the bulletin in question, when the Nisshin-maru fire might have been reported, was of a take-over bid by a US Investment Fund of Sapporo. Necessarily, because of power loss onboard Nisshin-maru there was no vision available. Other News Services made do with file footage from SSCS and GP, even using the ramming! The ABC in Australia eventually used footage of Nisshin-maru in it’s pre-1998 guise.
Attempting to reframe the issue does not help.
Television is the wallpaper of our lives. A journal-of-record, television is not!. Nor is the internet!.
Pages come and pages go. I asked that Jennifer might post the page from ICR concerning a GP and SSCS liasion. She chooses not to do so; that is her prerogative. No Record!
Here is a Petition regarding the annual Taiji dolphin “harvest”.
Thanks again to Imri Cohen:
http://www.petitiononline.com/golfinho/petition.html
Travis,
I’m not a heartless bitch that wanna use the mouse traps voluntarily…it’s just that we have zillions of mice in the rehab center eating wires, animal journals and food in the animal cages, so methink it’s better to kill some mice on the spot rather than drive 70km to the Mickey Mouse breeder.
Note, I have two cute house mice in my garden, I would never wanna kill them…actually the sparrow hawk likes them , but that’s another business….
Since English is not my native language , I wonder if there is a distinction between animal right organisations( Sea Shepherd) and animal welfare organisations( IFAW) ?? Methink there is a distinction, but I’m not sure…
According to Greenpeace , the Nisshin Maru is now moving….
I’m glad that no oil spill didn’t happen…well, the Japanese seem now to have ” saved the face”.
Interesting to see what will happen now. Will the Japanese continue the hunt, or will the whaling fleet sail home together with the Espy?
Ann,
Did I accuse you of being a heartles bitch? No. It didn’t even enter my mind. Obviously killing the mice upsets you – I have a bruised chin from your right cyber-hook. I know English is not your first language, but try not to read the worst into comments. But, if you just want to lash out at me, join the queue!
You are right that there is generally a distinction between animal rights and animal welfare organisations, but sometimes the lines get blurred.
Oh,pleeaze Travis, I don’t want to lash out at you…you can have your arguments with the whale eaters! LOL!
BTW, you have twice defended me here at the blog,remember Schiller, when he tried to crucify me in the GMO thread?? I’m thankful for that actually…
Travis, re George/JM.
I have asked George zillion times if he is JM…. seems like JM is a totally different person, and even if JM posted anonymously he had a good reason. He had children and didn’t want them to be involved in our crazy ” whale’s war”!
You know them crazy animal rights activists sending hate mails etc . to people !
Thanks Ann. I remain skeptical about George/JM, but as long as no one gets hurt, it is no big deal. I guess if it were the animal welfare people they would have sent JM a used towel after a seabird had thrown up on it! I’ll just go and ice that chin…just kidding:)