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	<title>Comments on: Early Warning of Massive Earthquates Possible: John McRobert</title>
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	<description>a forum for the discussion of issues concerning the natural environment</description>
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		<title>By: Louis Hissink</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139964</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Hissink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:03:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139964</guid>
		<description>Hunter,

Having wrote that, then how to predict?

Well, you caught me with my pants down.

I &quot;was&quot; toying with the idea the that as the Solar Sunspot Activity was at a minimum, the galactic electric currents were reduced, and that this would cause cooler states.

Maybe.

Depends on the scale factor - for what what is observed in a plasma fusion device in microseconds, can be shown in space.  Herein is the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hunter,</p>
<p>Having wrote that, then how to predict?</p>
<p>Well, you caught me with my pants down.</p>
<p>I &#8220;was&#8221; toying with the idea the that as the Solar Sunspot Activity was at a minimum, the galactic electric currents were reduced, and that this would cause cooler states.</p>
<p>Maybe.</p>
<p>Depends on the scale factor &#8211; for what what is observed in a plasma fusion device in microseconds, can be shown in space.  Herein is the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Hissink</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139962</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Hissink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139962</guid>
		<description>Hunter,

Brave indeed anyone who thinks a volcano could be mitigated - :-) Geology lost a couple of souls when St Helens erupted - and the weird thing is that those ash deposits are now lithified and properly called rocks.

I can explain kimberlite eruptions electrodynamically but haven&#039;t put pen to paper to write an article for a journal - but that mechanism cannot be extended to other volcanic eruptions such as the explosive types like Mt St Helens, Vesuvius etc. No one has seen a kimberlite erupt, but from the mining of and exploration for these unique volcanos we do know that the craters are machined downwards into the earth by some vortex mechanism.  A Russian scientist has proposed a plausible mechanism for this in a generalised way by an electrical interaction between the Earth and a passing alien body - meteorite/planet/comet etc.  The crucial factor is that the intruder/alien object had to be electrically active as well.. He has shown (published in New Concepts of Global Tectonics Newsletter) that this intruder when passing close by the Earth could set up significant electrical stresses in the upper mantle region causing kimberlite and associated volcanic clusters to erupt to the Earth&#039;s surface. These events seem also associated with global biospheric mass extinction events, though using the existing geochronological model, such connections are implausible due to the long periods of time between the events. A meteorite passing close by causing a specific kimberlite eruption, after which a species extinction occurs 1 millions years later, is a bit of a stretch for the imagination.  I mentioned this to Megan Clarke (then the research scientist for WMC Limited  (now absorbed into BHP-Billiton) during the early 1990&#039;s and suggested that maybe there a problem exists with our understanding of the geological time scale.  Her reply, which remains vivid, was to the effect that mainstream science could not contemplate such scenarios for fairly mundane reasons, ie the uniformitarian timescale of an Earth 4,500MA old.

Fair enough.

But the kimberlite model above cannot explain present observations of the more numerous &quot;garden variety&quot; volcanos dotted over the Earth. Those erupt in the absence of an external interloping cosmic body, although I have a sneaking suspicion that our AGW posters have a secret weapon in the form of a super carbon based alien who will arrive in our skies to acidify the oceans, melt the ice caps, and generally cause us grief; this conclusion is based on some evidence because recently someone in the UK was reported to have stated that melting of the polar ice caps (there&#039;s only one) will cause increased volcanism etc.

One of the puzzles is the Pacific Ring of Fire, a quasi-circular structure along which most volcanoes are located.  This is presently explained by plate tectonic theory but that theory is holeyer than most religions.

What we do know empirically is that the Earth&#039;s polar regions are the locii of immense Birkeland currents connecting the Earth with the solar system (the Sun is simply a bit player here), Peratt etc and also Kristian Birkeland&#039;s experiments with the terellas. When those electric currents increase in power density (amps increase), the dark mode currents then jump to glow mode which we see as the auroras.  But electric currents need to be connected, or the circuit has to be completed, and my guess is that there are shallow electrical conduits between the north and south poles of the earth, and that these might be the &quot;subduction&quot; zones.

Subduction zones are simply two disparate crustal rocks abutting against each other and would normally be described at the local scale as a fault zone.  Electric currents seem to prefer such linear paths, or structures since these are of lower resistance than the adjoining massive blocks of rock, and which from simple observation would need to be deep in order to melt the lower crust that, infrequently, erupts to the surface as volcanoes.

 One recent observation this year (or last year) by US researchers pointed to rotational motion being observed in the ejecta of an active volcano which together with the electrical effects (lightning etc) points to Birkeland currents connecting the surface of the earth to, I am told, the Van Allen Belts.

I&#039;m not dogmatic about this since I am, after all, an exploration geologist who from experience knows that data trump everything.

Since scientific ideas are always provisional, my present model for volcanoes is that they seem to be the locis of electrical leakages from the Earth, as a leaky capacitor, to the plasma of space along linears between grossly disparate rocktypes (AKA subduction zones).

That&#039;s what I think now but that is quite likely to change after a night&#039;s rest when I might recall some other observation that I forgot about, but which I now realised was relevant.  Such is the nature of the scientific mind that has to be contrasted with the religious mind that isn&#039;t allowed to change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hunter,</p>
<p>Brave indeed anyone who thinks a volcano could be mitigated &#8211; :-) Geology lost a couple of souls when St Helens erupted &#8211; and the weird thing is that those ash deposits are now lithified and properly called rocks.</p>
<p>I can explain kimberlite eruptions electrodynamically but haven&#8217;t put pen to paper to write an article for a journal &#8211; but that mechanism cannot be extended to other volcanic eruptions such as the explosive types like Mt St Helens, Vesuvius etc. No one has seen a kimberlite erupt, but from the mining of and exploration for these unique volcanos we do know that the craters are machined downwards into the earth by some vortex mechanism.  A Russian scientist has proposed a plausible mechanism for this in a generalised way by an electrical interaction between the Earth and a passing alien body &#8211; meteorite/planet/comet etc.  The crucial factor is that the intruder/alien object had to be electrically active as well.. He has shown (published in New Concepts of Global Tectonics Newsletter) that this intruder when passing close by the Earth could set up significant electrical stresses in the upper mantle region causing kimberlite and associated volcanic clusters to erupt to the Earth&#8217;s surface. These events seem also associated with global biospheric mass extinction events, though using the existing geochronological model, such connections are implausible due to the long periods of time between the events. A meteorite passing close by causing a specific kimberlite eruption, after which a species extinction occurs 1 millions years later, is a bit of a stretch for the imagination.  I mentioned this to Megan Clarke (then the research scientist for WMC Limited  (now absorbed into BHP-Billiton) during the early 1990&#8217;s and suggested that maybe there a problem exists with our understanding of the geological time scale.  Her reply, which remains vivid, was to the effect that mainstream science could not contemplate such scenarios for fairly mundane reasons, ie the uniformitarian timescale of an Earth 4,500MA old.</p>
<p>Fair enough.</p>
<p>But the kimberlite model above cannot explain present observations of the more numerous &#8220;garden variety&#8221; volcanos dotted over the Earth. Those erupt in the absence of an external interloping cosmic body, although I have a sneaking suspicion that our AGW posters have a secret weapon in the form of a super carbon based alien who will arrive in our skies to acidify the oceans, melt the ice caps, and generally cause us grief; this conclusion is based on some evidence because recently someone in the UK was reported to have stated that melting of the polar ice caps (there&#8217;s only one) will cause increased volcanism etc.</p>
<p>One of the puzzles is the Pacific Ring of Fire, a quasi-circular structure along which most volcanoes are located.  This is presently explained by plate tectonic theory but that theory is holeyer than most religions.</p>
<p>What we do know empirically is that the Earth&#8217;s polar regions are the locii of immense Birkeland currents connecting the Earth with the solar system (the Sun is simply a bit player here), Peratt etc and also Kristian Birkeland&#8217;s experiments with the terellas. When those electric currents increase in power density (amps increase), the dark mode currents then jump to glow mode which we see as the auroras.  But electric currents need to be connected, or the circuit has to be completed, and my guess is that there are shallow electrical conduits between the north and south poles of the earth, and that these might be the &#8220;subduction&#8221; zones.</p>
<p>Subduction zones are simply two disparate crustal rocks abutting against each other and would normally be described at the local scale as a fault zone.  Electric currents seem to prefer such linear paths, or structures since these are of lower resistance than the adjoining massive blocks of rock, and which from simple observation would need to be deep in order to melt the lower crust that, infrequently, erupts to the surface as volcanoes.</p>
<p> One recent observation this year (or last year) by US researchers pointed to rotational motion being observed in the ejecta of an active volcano which together with the electrical effects (lightning etc) points to Birkeland currents connecting the surface of the earth to, I am told, the Van Allen Belts.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not dogmatic about this since I am, after all, an exploration geologist who from experience knows that data trump everything.</p>
<p>Since scientific ideas are always provisional, my present model for volcanoes is that they seem to be the locis of electrical leakages from the Earth, as a leaky capacitor, to the plasma of space along linears between grossly disparate rocktypes (AKA subduction zones).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I think now but that is quite likely to change after a night&#8217;s rest when I might recall some other observation that I forgot about, but which I now realised was relevant.  Such is the nature of the scientific mind that has to be contrasted with the religious mind that isn&#8217;t allowed to change.</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139803</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139803</guid>
		<description>Louis,
I think it depends on what you mean by &#039;predictive power&#039;.
There are good ways to predict short term if a volcano is getting ready to erupt.
Here is a link with a list of things being done now to predict and mitigate volcanoes.
http://www.usgs.gov/science/science.php?term=1698&amp;type=theme
As far as an electrodynamic theory of volcanic function goes, if you can come up with a reasonable theory that involves evidence, go for it.
YOu have done pretty well talking about a complex significant electrical relationship between the sun and earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Louis,<br />
I think it depends on what you mean by &#8216;predictive power&#8217;.<br />
There are good ways to predict short term if a volcano is getting ready to erupt.<br />
Here is a link with a list of things being done now to predict and mitigate volcanoes.<br />
<a href="http://www.usgs.gov/science/science.php?term=1698&amp;type=theme" rel="nofollow">http://www.usgs.gov/science/science.php?term=1698&amp;type=theme</a><br />
As far as an electrodynamic theory of volcanic function goes, if you can come up with a reasonable theory that involves evidence, go for it.<br />
YOu have done pretty well talking about a complex significant electrical relationship between the sun and earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Hissink</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139750</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Hissink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139750</guid>
		<description>Hunter,

Predicting volcanic eruptions is indeed difficult, especially when the physics is wrong.

Think of a volcano as an electric discharge from an Earth that behaves as a leaky capacitor.  Volcanic eruptions are generally preceded by significant changes in the local geomagnetic field, and one suspects electric field as well.

As magnetic fields can only be modulated by electric currents, and indeed only produced by electric currents, then this should be enough for those with inquisitive minds to work on.

Given the centuries of volcanic studies, one would have thought by now that if a particular theory hasn&#039;t any predictive value, then it would be ditched.

It&#039;s probably the intellectual analog of drug addiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hunter,</p>
<p>Predicting volcanic eruptions is indeed difficult, especially when the physics is wrong.</p>
<p>Think of a volcano as an electric discharge from an Earth that behaves as a leaky capacitor.  Volcanic eruptions are generally preceded by significant changes in the local geomagnetic field, and one suspects electric field as well.</p>
<p>As magnetic fields can only be modulated by electric currents, and indeed only produced by electric currents, then this should be enough for those with inquisitive minds to work on.</p>
<p>Given the centuries of volcanic studies, one would have thought by now that if a particular theory hasn&#8217;t any predictive value, then it would be ditched.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably the intellectual analog of drug addiction.</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139678</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139678</guid>
		<description>Mr. McRobert,
After a brief hike in google, it appears Mr. Grover had some very broad interests.
I can see how he would have gotten into political trouble.
I will see what is available on this side of the globe.
Having read a bit about how difficult it is to predict volcanoes, I remain dubious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. McRobert,<br />
After a brief hike in google, it appears Mr. Grover had some very broad interests.<br />
I can see how he would have gotten into political trouble.<br />
I will see what is available on this side of the globe.<br />
Having read a bit about how difficult it is to predict volcanoes, I remain dubious.</p>
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		<title>By: John McRobert</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139645</link>
		<dc:creator>John McRobert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:10:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139645</guid>
		<description>Mr Hunter

The evidence is in the John Grover book (which you should be able to borrow from your local library), and in the ongoing newsletter &#039;New Concepts in Global Tectonics&#039; (which may be found using Google).

Good hunting
John McRobert</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Hunter</p>
<p>The evidence is in the John Grover book (which you should be able to borrow from your local library), and in the ongoing newsletter &#8216;New Concepts in Global Tectonics&#8217; (which may be found using Google).</p>
<p>Good hunting<br />
John McRobert</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139642</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139642</guid>
		<description>Mr. McRobert,
I find your argument and assertions unconvincing.
You offer no evidence, only assertions and conclusions.
Regards,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. McRobert,<br />
I find your argument and assertions unconvincing.<br />
You offer no evidence, only assertions and conclusions.<br />
Regards,</p>
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		<title>By: hunter</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139640</link>
		<dc:creator>hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 20:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139640</guid>
		<description>Rising Tide,
You are either joking, or are a joke.
Cheers,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rising Tide,<br />
You are either joking, or are a joke.<br />
Cheers,</p>
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		<title>By: Mack</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139587</link>
		<dc:creator>Mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 10:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139587</guid>
		<description>I hadn&#039;t heard about the tsunami in Samoa the day it happened,but arrived home midday for lunch to find a throng of people out of their cars standing around on the hill where I live looking at the sea? I later found out that the whole country had been put on tsunami alert, with cops clearing the beaches,helicopters racing up and down with loudhailers telling everbody to clear the coastline,and traffic jams of people heading for the hills!
 I thought that this resembles   AGW hysteria to a tee. Nothing observable happened to the sea. They say there was a 40cm swell.! What a fizzer. What a dis appointment for the civil defence teams.
 Like the AGW alarmists nobody had any sense of perspective . How far away from NZ is Samoa? what,  several thousand miles! Nobody observed a stone dropped into a large pond?What sort of magnification of this event was going on in the minds of these people? 
 Where was their sense of proportion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hadn&#8217;t heard about the tsunami in Samoa the day it happened,but arrived home midday for lunch to find a throng of people out of their cars standing around on the hill where I live looking at the sea? I later found out that the whole country had been put on tsunami alert, with cops clearing the beaches,helicopters racing up and down with loudhailers telling everbody to clear the coastline,and traffic jams of people heading for the hills!<br />
 I thought that this resembles   AGW hysteria to a tee. Nothing observable happened to the sea. They say there was a 40cm swell.! What a fizzer. What a dis appointment for the civil defence teams.<br />
 Like the AGW alarmists nobody had any sense of perspective . How far away from NZ is Samoa? what,  several thousand miles! Nobody observed a stone dropped into a large pond?What sort of magnification of this event was going on in the minds of these people?<br />
 Where was their sense of proportion?</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Hissink</title>
		<link>http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/10/early-warning-of-massive-earthquates-possible-john-mcrobert/comment-page-1/#comment-139297</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Hissink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 04:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/?p=6503#comment-139297</guid>
		<description>Larry

I have yet to read the paper myself - if it is online that is - and no electrons travel opposite to the positive particles in an electric or magnetic field. They might be moved en-masse by the ocean currents but until I read it and get to understand it, I am as clueless about it as you are, but if earthquakes are in fact electric discharges down below - then I can start to see some sort of connection with the oceans and the atmospheric lows that, unlike the highs, develop into powerful rotating vortices that can be best explained by the action of electric currents connecting the earth&#039;s surface to the Van Allen Belts. (I&#039;m not saying the currents enter the earth, since electrons move in direction, anions the opposite and both are electric currents).

But no one has really bothered to study this in detail - I doubt you would get any funding from government since the implications are profound. A colleague (plasma physicist) is looking at explaining the geomagnetic field as due to some moving electric charge on the earth&#039;s surface but I &#039;ll see what his opinion on this research is first.  It&#039;s all rather novel and cutting edge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry</p>
<p>I have yet to read the paper myself &#8211; if it is online that is &#8211; and no electrons travel opposite to the positive particles in an electric or magnetic field. They might be moved en-masse by the ocean currents but until I read it and get to understand it, I am as clueless about it as you are, but if earthquakes are in fact electric discharges down below &#8211; then I can start to see some sort of connection with the oceans and the atmospheric lows that, unlike the highs, develop into powerful rotating vortices that can be best explained by the action of electric currents connecting the earth&#8217;s surface to the Van Allen Belts. (I&#8217;m not saying the currents enter the earth, since electrons move in direction, anions the opposite and both are electric currents).</p>
<p>But no one has really bothered to study this in detail &#8211; I doubt you would get any funding from government since the implications are profound. A colleague (plasma physicist) is looking at explaining the geomagnetic field as due to some moving electric charge on the earth&#8217;s surface but I &#8216;ll see what his opinion on this research is first.  It&#8217;s all rather novel and cutting edge.</p>
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