http://tinyurl.com/3fvm9p

I haven’t read all of it yet, but it’s interesting stuff. (And as I acknowledged before, of course it’s coming from a specific viewpoint, just as David is when he chows down on a bit of whale.)

And surprise, surprise, Travis doesn’t even begin to mount a relevant case. But of course, he’s the designated Greenpimp troll here so what can one expect.

Once more for the record. Greenpimp have no way of telling if an animal is alive, conscious and suffering or unconscious, even dead, and twitching. But that doesn’t stop them portraying the whole sequence as some marine version of “the torture of Bambi”.

They would have done that years ago Mott! LOL!!! Trophic cascades…hmmm….whales=cows…hmmm…

Yes Steve, we know why you are ‘giving up’. There has to be some reason apart for the obvious regarding futility.!!!

But that, of course, did not deter Greenpimp from allowing a false and misleading impression to be formed by the viewer.

Readers can form their own view as to which of us has the better grasp of whaling reality by the content of our posts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3542987.stm
(quote)
“Sir David’s foreword quotes Dr Harry Lillie, a ship’s physician on an Antarctic whaling trip in the 1940s.

Dr Lillie wrote: “If we can imagine a horse having two or three explosive spears stuck in its stomach and being made to pull a butcher’s truck through the streets of London while it pours blood into the gutter, we shall have an idea of the method of killing.”
(end quote)

They sure weren’t using penthrite grenade harpoons back in the 1940’s, the Japanese didn’t invent this technology until the 1980’s.

I imagine there’s lots of technology from the 1940’s that isn’t considered to be good enough these days.

http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/utenriks/article2227609.ece

Anyhow, the point is that Attenborough wasn’t just talking about his own impressions from watching a video.

I think you sound quite ludicrous when you start talking about how it’s Greenpeace which has the burden of proving that a moving, breathing mammal is not unconscious – especially when you say their “intellectual curiosity” didn’t extend to investigating that question. I suppose the Japanese are going to allow them unfettered access to the whale to check this out?

(Incidentally, even if they were allowed on board, that Attenborough article mentioned that it’s not an easy thing to tell exactly when a whale has died or lost consciousness. Doesn’t surprise me, but I assume you’ll feel there is some magic way of telling.)

Incidentally, could you care to explain why your understanding of the “reality” of whaling is any better or first hand than mine?

But anti-whaling countries are complaining about whaling countries catching whales in accordance with international agreements which even the anti-whaling nations themselves have agreed with.

So I can’t agree with or understand your top statement.

Also I don’t see how the humpback whales (for example) went from being “Endangered”, to “Vulnerable”, to “Least concern” by even the IUCN’s Red List criteria, if their environment is in such bad condition. But I agree, we should keep whale environments in good shape. That way humans can enjoy the benefits of their sustainable harvest.

The Greenpimp video showed part of the sequence from an animal twitching on the end of a grenaded harpoon and the animal no longer twitching. The greenpimp commentary claimed that this sequence was evidence of the whales passage through a slow, supposedly cruel death.

But for that to be the case then they are also claiming that whales do not undergo body spasms after death. Where is the evidence for that?

The fact is, from the moment it is accepted that some form of post mortem spasms can take place then the burden rests with Greenpimp to indicate when, prior to the ending of these spasms, the actual death took place.

And once it is accepted that mamals can be unconscious while still breathing then the burden rests with Greenpimp to advise the viewer when conscious movement and breathing stopped and when unconscious movement and breathing started.

The simple facts of the matter are that Greenpimp had no way of determining when the whale lapsed into unconsciousness and it follows that they had no way of determining when the whales awareness of their condition ceased. That is, they had no idea if the whale was suffering at all.

But the record shows quite clearly that their so-called “intellectual curiosity”
extended only so far as they needed to support their initial prejudices.

So lets face it, Steve, you are giving up because your vague ideas and vacuous impressions have been properly tested and have failed to stand up under scrutiny.

And Gosh, Holly. So which part of the southern ocean, and the pacific ocean, is no longer there or has been severely degraded?

Whaling is cruel, no question about it.

It’s all good and well saying leave animals out there in the wild, but in many cases there is not much wild left or it has been severely degraded and the animal populations face increasing challenges.